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Wishlist for Avadon 3 - interface/gameplay suggestions


mikeprichard
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Hmm. Probably the easiest implementation would be to have a range counter appear below the cursor. That would assume a straight path, though, so it wouldn't be a perfect guide. But the only way to get a truly accurate measure of movement distance would be to recalculate the pathfinding algorithm every time the cursor moved, which would likely make the interface bog down.

 

The Battle for Wesnoth (a freeware turn-based strategy game) came up with a good solution to this, though it handles ranged combat very differently than most turn-based games.

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One thing I always like, and always want more of, is detail of what happened to whom in the ending. I was glad that this time I learned the individual fates of my companions, and that my choices in the game made the difference...I always like this even on minor matters. As in Geneforge 3, where I never used canisters, and the game at the end said I held my hand up and saw it was not glowing, so that at least I had retained my humanity. Learning what happened to some of the NPC's I left alive, or what happened because of some of the optional creatures I killed, this too I would have liked. Even if I'm not going to replay the game, and I'm not a big replayer, knowing that my choices changed the ending and that I could have gotten a different one with different choices makes me enjoy it more.

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Hi, I've played through Avadon 1 and am starting Avadon 2. Disclaimer: I have not read the entire thread.

 

The OP mentions sortable quest list. I would go further. Have 3 categories - active quests, repeatable quests like drake skins, and "check back later". Right now I have about 15 quests and finding info can be annoying.

 

Some quests are vague and it's not really clear what to do. At the very least, it would be nice if you could ping the *zone* you should be in for a given quest. Just as an example, I got a quest to get a hunting token in Avadon. His description on where to go was kinda vague, and the quest text in the journal was not much better. (Side note, I'm not looking for info on this quest, it was just an example).

 

I also want to jump on the "toggle" bandwagon with respect to keys like "g" or "i". I am guessing you don't do this because letters choose items in the inventory or on the ground, but there's got to be some way to work around this.

 

Thanks!

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Some quests are vague and it's not really clear what to do. At the very least, it would be nice if you could ping the *zone* you should be in for a given quest. Just as an example, I got a quest to get a hunting token in Avadon. His description on where to go was kinda vague, and the quest text in the journal was not much better.

 

A vote in opposition here -- I actually like the idea that some quests still exist that don't lead you by the hand and say "Go to this spot". :) You have to explore on your own to satisfy them. I think it would even be a nice touch if it weren't possible to collect all the honor tokens in the game; some should become available based upon story choices you make, or even based on the class you've chosen... The more non-linear the game, the better, imho. :)

 

I also want to jump on the "toggle" bandwagon with respect to keys like "g" or "i". I am guessing you don't do this because letters choose items in the inventory or on the ground, but there's got to be some way to work around this.

 

Ah, this is where an emacs or vi mode would be handy. :) In the classic Unix text-editor wars, the main point of contention between the two sides was whether editing should be "modeless" (you can use the keyboard keys both for writing text and for editing it at the same time), or "modal" (you switch the keyboard between writing and editing mode as you go). In the modeless camp, you normally use control-characters for editing; in the modal camp, you use a switch (vi uses the Escape key) to convert the keyboard between writing and editing mode.

 

In this case, for a "modeless" solution, you'd want to use something like Control-G to toggle in and out of the inventory screen, allowing the regular letter G to be used for selecting inventory items. For a "modal" solution, you'd probably have a particular key combination (I guess Escape is already in use, though) that turned the selection-by-key property on and off; when turn the mode on, you'd be able to select items by key, but you wouldn't be able to get out of the inventory using the G key until you turned selection-by-key off.

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I don't know if this has been mentioned but it would be nice if the map was a little clearer. At the moment, when looking at the map via the 'Tab' key, the writing overlaps on people/areas close to each other which makes it hard to make out the writing. This is very noticeable when at Avadon. I think this could be sorted if the map were a little larger, or even having a zoom function, as either would make it so much easier to see where things were and it would make the map look so much better. If I've missed something which fixes this already, please let me know as this is a particular bugbear of mine - thanks :)

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My wishlist top:

 

1 - Actual OST. My main and most annoying problem with all Jeff's games. If not a complete soundtrack, something that fleshes out battles. A good piece of music could do wonders for boss battles.

 

2 - Non-combat skills aside from lockpick; specially something like leadership from Geneforge, diplomacy, or anything in that line.

 

3 - The aforementioned toggle for windows - i opens inventory and ALSO closes it. That would ber very very welcomed.

 

4 - Also mentioned before: bigger fonts for every text; letters that match resolutions.

 

5 - Less trash mobs. Don't get me wrong: I think they are justified... it's just that I wish there were less hordes of them.

 

6 - Upgraded skill abilities/spells for Sorceress. I know that this implies lot of changes for every other classes... but hey, those are my wishes :)

 

7 - Magic missiles from Soreceress/shamans showing true range when hovering the cursor at enemies; as it is now, it's a matter of guessing if the character is at the right distance for shooting.

 

8 - Unique crafting/blessing stones that grant special bonuses for equipment.

 

9 - Summoned beasts as companions a la Geneforge, not just timed allies that have a hard time following up the group (also, that summonings and turrets are counted as different entities for the summoned creatures cap).

 

10 - Special bonuses for characters that reach a certain level, instead of just throwing a level cap.

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6 - What's the matter with the Sorcerer?

 

The same that happens with other classes: their skill trees don't have any new addtion; I was expecting new spells, that's all; so, one of my wishes is that new spells are present in the future third installment. I'm aware this is somewhat... aggresive with game's balance, but after playing Geneforge games, it was always nice to see new spells for almost every new entry.

 

Also, I like classic spellcasters as the soreceress.

 

7 - This has been mentioned many times, and affects every character.

 

Well, then better for me. More people complaining means I'm not alone in my idiocy :D

 

9 - Not sure what you mean.

 

Summoned beasts in Avadon are uncontrollable outside battles -this makes tactical approaches to some battles a bit tedious; it's a annoying to summon a Drake before the battle starts only to see it run far away from the group's position.

 

10 - These exist and are called specializations.

 

I'm afraid I haven't explained myself clearly, or you have misunderstood me. What I'm refering to is the max level cap and what this makes to character progression: you just hit the level max cap and with that, growing your PC ceases to be fun (in fact, it ceases entirely); hence, I suggest or wish an alternative: that reaching high levels do not end with the max level cap alone, but with some extra bonuses for dedicated players that achieve this point in the character progression. Maybe something like... for every 1000 exp points you earn after the max level, you gain an extra bonus relevant for your class choice.

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Lots of good ideas in this thread, and I was quite pleased to see Jeff plans to redo the Geneforge series, which I loved.

 

On topic, I'm tired of how "cleave" damage works. I wouldn't mind it if certain attacks damaged a PC adjacent to the target--but 2 spaces away is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that it seems certain enemies have a far easier time of inflicting cleave damage on a secondary target than if they made that the primary target.

 

I would change cleave damage to only work w/ 2-handed weapons (and certainly not missile weapons like arrows!), and even then the secondary target would be adjacent to the first. By limiting it to 2-handed weapons, your PC makes a choice between raw damage output and better defense via a shield.

 

Speaking of 2-handed weapons, I didn't understand why you'd add an attribute to a pole weapon that increases magical damage? A melee type isn't going to have Int very high (or even be casting spells), while a mage type isn't going to be using pole weapons due to low Str and other obvious reasons.

 

I loved the Scarabs, but by limiting their base damage to either Dex (Blademasters, Shadowwalkers & Tinkermages) or Int (Shamans & Sorcerers), I think this system shorts a Str-based melee character. Just even it all out by saying a Scarab's base damage is built off a PC's highest stat, whatever that may be.

 

That's all I have at the moment.

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Two things:

 

1) Clicking on an enemy to do a range attack from too far away causes a character to run a step farther than he/she needs to in order to do the attack. This is annoying when I'm trying to stay as far back as possible or use as few action points as possible. It would be nice to step just close enough to do the attack, automatically.

 

2) As a general matter, there ought to be more use of different numbers of Hands for different quests. There are various parts of Avadon 1 and 2 in which the main character goes alone. The first trip into the dungeons in Avadon 1 gets only one companion. The final battles in Avadon 1 and Avadon 2 get all loyal companions. But otherwise, we're stuck at 2 companions for virtually the entire game. Why? We could have much more interesting combat dynamics if sometimes there were 1 companion, sometimes 2, sometimes 3, sometimes 4, and so on. I found that I didn't maintain my rarely used companions as well as I maintained my core group, so they were weaker in the endgame (despite having the same levels) just from disuse.

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I appreciate the way certain people's "quests" remain in the quest log to let you know you might need to check back with them eventually to continue a chain of quests...but I also sometimes feel shades of the G3 boat syndrome as I have to traverse between portals to see if anyone is offering new quest stages. Is there any chance more people in Lynaeus could send messages to Polus (just like the other Hands of the party do) and have him let me know "So and so in Monitor Base C has news for you," or "Monitor Dude in Rockridge has a lead for you," or whatever?

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I appreciate the way certain people's "quests" remain in the quest log to let you know you might need to check back with them eventually to continue a chain of quests...but I also sometimes feel shades of the G3 boat syndrome as I have to traverse between portals to see if anyone is offering new quest stages. Is there any chance more people in Lynaeus could send messages to Polus (just like the other Hands of the party do) and have him let me know "So and so in Monitor Base C has news for you," or "Monitor Dude in Rockridge has a lead for you," or whatever?

This is a really good idea.

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I appreciate the way certain people's "quests" remain in the quest log to let you know you might need to check back with them eventually to continue a chain of quests...but I also sometimes feel shades of the G3 boat syndrome as I have to traverse between portals to see if anyone is offering new quest stages. Is there any chance more people in Lynaeus could send messages to Polus (just like the other Hands of the party do) and have him let me know "So and so in Monitor Base C has news for you," or "Monitor Dude in Rockridge has a lead for you," or whatever?

Good idea. Perhaps this could be used in other ways, too? I know there's an option to report him to Heart Callan as a spy (which she brushes off), but if he's getting messages from the Tawon - even unimportant ones - well, a loyal Hand might feel obliged to report that, at least.

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I totally agree with Triumph, its quite timeconsuming to go checking once in a while if person a in place a has new things to do while is in place f (basically goto nearest exit, then goto area where pylon is and travel back to Fortress and then goto otther portal and select companions and in next area goto nearest exist and click town where wants to travel and there click building where quest giver lives). For example I checked basically after every trip if I could go further into Abandoned workshop in Troezen and quite many times no new info.

 

Also like uniqueblue said boats would be nice but usage would be quite limited (in Avadon 2 only few places (start area, Foresight and Troezen) would have use for boat.

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Spiderweb games are fantastic, otherwise I wouldn't be here trying to enthusiastically contribute, this to say that I don't feel to criticize in some cold way Avadon 2 and I certainly could write many more lines of appreciation than of critics, above all appreciation for the literary aspect and the plot. Unfortunately English is not my language and what I could write would be too hard for me to translate.

However, in terms of playing the game there are some things I noticed, I will edit this post too, and briefly this is my wishlist for Avadon 3:

- More efficient bows

- Less shields

- Less swords

- More frenzy scrolls

- Simplify Dedrik's set up logic, it's a mess to shape the character to make him efficient for the needs of the party.

- Eliminate uneffective scroll Lightning, or improve its effect.

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Probably the worst thing about the shaman is the relative uselessness of his main attack. Magic is too commonly resisted compared with other types of damage. There's also the fact that you'd have to pump Dex rather than Int to get the best effect from his top-tier attacks, which does nothing for his default attack - and javelins are a joke*. So basically the shaman is the only class that has no decent cooldown-free attack.

 

Granted that BM and SW also have to choose between two stats (Str and Dex), but both of those come with a good default attack, melee or missile. And for those two classes, offensive scarabs key off Dex. For Shamans it's Int, which gives a high-Dex shaman another whole area of uselessness.

 

This is not to say that a healing/summoning Shaman can't be useful, it's just that there's not much for him to do once he's called up his drake.

 

*At least they were in Ava1. I admit I've barely used Dedrik in Ava2. But there's still no skill to improve them, so...

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I guess the idea about Shamans is flexibility. You are a resourceful mage of sorts, but also a decent long range fighter.

 

I didn't know, though, that magic based damage is blocked by a lot of enemies. I never felt shamans were very useful apart from healing spells; I think they need to be focused as healers/summoners more (and, as I said earlier, maybe trying to turn summonings a bit like shaping)

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There's also the fact that you'd have to pump Dex rather than Int to get the best effect from his top-tier attacks, which does nothing for his default attack - and javelins are a joke**At least they were in Ava1. I admit I've barely used Dedrik in Ava2. But there's still no skill to improve them, so....

In Ava1, a maxed Dex Shaman did just fine:

Javelin did decent damage and hit without a skill, summons of course, healing skill improves group heal scarab, and dex helps defensively. That made Jenell a useful party member, but if you are saying that a Shaman makes a weak PC then of course that's true.

 

In Ava2 now, Dex is less useful defensively, and Shaman is weaker overall.

Granted that BM and SW also have to choose between two stats (Str and Dex), but both of those come with a good default attack, melee or missile. And for those two classes, offensive scarabs key off Dex. For Shamans it's Int, which gives a high-Dex shaman another whole area of uselessness.

You should be giving offensive scarabs to the melee characters, like you are alluding to. The casters want defensive/healing.

This is not to say that a healing/summoning Shaman can't be useful, it's just that there's not much for him to do once he's called up his drake.

If I'm using my Shaman party member, then after they cast summon they use their turn to heal, or else ranged attack. It's that simple.

It's always the case that they are my last party member, meaning the most likely to be swapped out for another.

 

I think Shaman is the weakest class (although I rarely use Sorceress either), but I still include the party member sometimes.

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You should be giving offensive scarabs to the melee characters, like you are alluding to. The casters want defensive/healing.

 

Well, that's one way to go, certainly. But high-strength melee characters aren't going to make the best use of offensive scarabs either. I actually like to give them the passive bonus and/or group heal type of scarabs. And when you say "casters", I'm assuming you just mean Shamans. Because as far as I'm concerned, Sorcerers are all about making things dead.

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Well, that's one way to go, certainly. But high-strength melee characters aren't going to make the best use of offensive scarabs either. I actually like to give them the passive bonus and/or group heal type of scarabs. And when you say "casters", I'm assuming you just mean Shamans. Because as far as I'm concerned, Sorcerers are all about making things dead.

 

Sorcerers do enjoy having at least the self-healing scarab -- but Tinkermages want it too, so it's a tough choice.

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I tend to give the self heal scarab to my sorcerers, since Tinkermages can summon healing pylons if they're powerful enough. Well, not till later, it's true, but that's my excuse. (It works as long as I have any combination of the following: Group Heal scrolls, a shaman, healing potions/items/food for everyone.)

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A maxed Drake is a useful addition to any party, and the healing/ hostile effect removal of the utility skill is handy as well. But Shaman damage output is poor no matter what you do. However, they can make better use of attack scarabs than melee characters who have increased strength over dexterity, so giving one or two of the cone attack scarabs to a shaman in a party with a strength/endurance blademaster and any third member (though a tinkermage is of course best) is a good way to make them at least somewhat useful independent of their drake.

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I'm in agreement with a couple people above that the shaman is substantially underpowered, especially in comparison to the tinkermage. Give a dex-focused TM a group heal scarab and a couple elemental attack ones, and s/he can do everything a shaman can, only with better evasion, the ability to equip a shield without losing out on the best skill bonuses, and overwhelmingly greater damage output.

 

It's especially silly that a player who saves money can get the earthshatter scarab long before a shaman can get earthshatter, and do a lot more damage with it if played intelligently. (I mean, technically a dex shaman can do just as much damage with earthshatter as a a dex TM/BM/SW or an int sorcerer, but the latter four classes don't have to hamstring the rest of their offensive abilities to do so.)

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I'm in agreement with a couple people above that the shaman is substantially underpowered, especially in comparison to the tinkermage. Give a dex-focused TM a group heal scarab and a couple elemental attack ones, and s/he can do everything a shaman can, only with better evasion, the ability to equip a shield without losing out on the best skill bonuses, and overwhelmingly greater damage output.

 

It's especially silly that a player who saves money can get the earthshatter scarab long before a shaman can get earthshatter, and do a lot more damage with it if played intelligently. (I mean, technically a dex shaman can do just as much damage with earthshatter as a a dex TM/BM/SW or an int sorcerer, but the latter four classes don't have to hamstring the rest of their offensive abilities to do so.)

THIS. So much. Even when I have two shamans in my party, I find it hard to build either of them for offensive spells just because of how underpowered I know they'll be.

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Shamans are underpowered because their main attack ability, spirit claw, faces greater resistances and monsters with immunities than for any other class even with a high intelligence build. In order to do significant damage with higher level abilities then they need dexterity so that attack scarabs aren't as useful.

 

This gives two possible attack builds. A high intelligence one that relies on attack scarabs and summoned pets which means low defense versus attacks. A high dexterity build that relies on high level abilities to attack and has somewhat better defense, but doesn't do as much damage and to hit with the default attack that can be used every round.

 

The other alternative is a support shaman to heal, cure, and summon a strong pet to do the fighting.

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Hello.

 

Question: What does "absorbs elemental damage and uses this to regain abilities" mean? Does it increase Vitality points, or does it reduce all abilities' fatigue, or does it just reduce one ability's fatigue, or as many fatigue points as it can, starting with some arbitrary ability and then going through all the remaining ones?

 

Some comments for Avadon 3:

* I really would like the level cap increased to 40 because, frankly, the game's getting too big. I don't mind level caps per se if I the level cap is reached about 90% of the way thru the game, but I think this time I reached it something like 2/3rds of the way thru. If someone wants to go quickly through the game, then I recommend Casual mode because the damage is so low even a level 10 character should be able to get thru the entire game.

* One other thing I'd like is the ability to change any item's blessing by using a different blessing stone on it.

* A third thing is someone who can upgrade potions, e.g. 2 or 3 Healing Potions to a Healing Elixir.

* One thing I must point out is that even major enemies should still follow game rules. I find it annoying to see enemies zip around the screen, attack my summoned monster, kill it, and then zip around some more, or get 2 turns (not attacks) per round. The former is annoying because why should my characters not be allowed to move after attacking when the opponents can? The latter can I guess be explained by "fast moving characters" but why not just make them perpetually hasted or berserked instead?

* Oh, and humans will always drop weapons and armor when dead, or maybe drop the equivalent in coins. Unless of course they fight without armor, weapons, or misc items.

* Shouldn't bags of grain, bags of coal, and bars of iron be worth something to someone?

* Please make all non-wearable non-usable items stackable. Makes it easier to carry around those alchemetical supplies, bowls, and incense.

* One last thing: even the cheapie items should still be worth a few coins when sold. If stores are selling it, you should be able to sell it to them at the normal 1/5th cost.

 

Thanks.

 

My view of the classes:

Blademaster: standard meat-shield. Great for (not) taking damage. A Blademaster is best as a defensive character, not an offensive one. Primary attirbute: strength, although need some endurance as well to max out the usefulness of your healing and for those bosses that hit for tons and tons of damage. Btw, if you give your first heal scarab to a Blademaster you really won't need to worry about that character for a long time unless you're facing enemies that can Slow or Stun.

Shadowwalker: A properly trained Shadowwalker is a great ranged-attack person and can be hard to hit as well. Primary attribute: Dex.

Shaman: Your other meat-shield. Shamans can summon pets which can go forth and absorb tons and tons of damage and more importantly effects and ranged-attack spells. Send your pet out as a scout and watch those enemy mages put several area-effect spells into it and then your party can rush in and whack them. Spells appear to be designed to increase group survivability so that you eventually wear down your opponent. I really don't think you will succeed trying to make a Shaman into an offense powerhouse. Primary attributes: endurance and intelligence.

Sorceror: Here's your attack master. He can whack a ton of enemies at once. Give him a couple scarabs and watch the carnage. Primary attribute: Intelligence, although could use a few endurance points for a bit of extra vitality for a few extra spells before needing to go back to base. The major flaw with this class is that it has no healing spells, so toss him the vast majority of your food and healing potions. Seriously, if your character is not hasted or frenzied, chomping on a bit of food is a great way to compensate for occasional damage, unless you need to run around a lot. Pity you can't make an IV mushroom drip.

Tinkermage: An interesting character class. Here's a character who can summon "creatures" that can do area effect spells every round (once you get the 2nd turret). Only problem is that this takes up a LOT of vitality so you probably don't want to use this character for scouting large monster-filled terrains. I don't think this character can be easily made into a meat shield so I suggest building up Dex for ranged attacks.

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