Wishlist for Avadon 3 - interface/gameplay suggestions

[El Bastardo]

I'd also like to be able to go from viewing the inventory to viewing a character's stats without having to close the inventory screen. You should be able to click on the inventory bag while viewing stats and click on the ? while viewing inventory. Although quite a minor thing, this has bugged me with all Spiderweb games I've played.

 

Very much agree with the suggestion to be able to click move the party on the TAB map within an area.

[Randomizer]

Question: What does "absorbs elemental damage and uses this to regain abilities" mean? Does it increase Vitality points, or does it reduce all abilities' fatigue, or does it just reduce one ability's fatigue, or as many fatigue points as it can, starting with some arbitrary ability and then going through all the remaining ones?

It means that the cool down time before you can reuse an ability decreases when you are hit with a fire, cold, or energy spell. Also you take less penetrating damage from these attacks. It also means that you don't fear reflection as much at higher levels since the reflected part helps you.

[Dear Potato]

Randomizer, what do you mean by "penetrating damage"? I always assumed that the skill just shielded from damage directly, apart from the cool down decrease.

[Randomizer]

Penetrating damage is how much damage gets through to hurt a character. It's the number I worry about since late in the game the total damage can be over 500, but if you have enough resistance you can reduce the penetrating damage under 100.

[ZorroDragonslayer]

I would like to see recruitable characters that could be added to the party. These might be scattered around the map with random encounters and have a wide range of abilities.

 

Thanks!

[springacres]

This is sorta random, but it'd be neat to have something IG where you could record scenes and play them back for other characters.

 

They'd never believe this back in Avadon unless it was recorded somehow....

 

[Shadowplay]

A few other comments:

* I like the little things like the way the rats' noses go up and down, sniffing for my characters. Makes even the mutated ones look rather cute.

* I find the identical shape of inside and outside very nice and handy. Are you moving towards a fully flat model with no map switches between "inside" and "outside" for the same vertical level?

* If you're going to have "danger spots" like the Corruption, then either pets' AIs need to be written so that they do not trigger "danger spots", or we need to be able to unsummon critters. I don't know how the AI is written but sometimes after combat the summoned pets like to wander around for a bit (perhaps checking to see if there is anything else left to fight?), which is VERY hazardous in the Corruption Core.

* Speaking of the Corruption Core, it would have been nice had the "rough ground" icon been used for all of the rough ground, including the ground under the "sidewalks" which apparently uses the sidewalk icon but is still considered "rough ground".

* One thing I don't understand is that the stats say that they reduce not only enemy to-hit probability but also damage. For example, if you increase Dex to some truly excessive value like 50 then obviously you reduce enemies' fire and physical attack to-hit probability by 50 levels. Do you also decrease enemy damage by 50 hit dice?

* One thing you might want to show somewhere is some sort of raw damage estimate so we know which sword is better given a particular build (e.g. given effects of +% bonuses of items, skill, and specials). Right now I'm using the rule-of-thumb 1% damage bonus gives an identical average bonus as 2% crit bonus or whatever number of hit dice 1% damage is.

* Something like the Flame Blade might be nice even if it had low bonuses if it picked the best damage type (physical or fire) for each attack.

* Btw, the Taewon Empire and Svorgald need their own character types. I vote for Mass-assembly Expert and Sweedish Sushi Chef.

[springacres]

I think the most likely character type for Svorgald would be Sailor/Pirate. The Tawon... their gods are their unique character type, I suspect.

 

I like your suggestion about pets, though. I am beyond thankful I didn't have to deal with much of that when fighting Miranda this time around.

[kuo]

I would like for NPCs that can join your party but aren't necessarily Hands.

[hervelm]

Don't limit character progression.

Biggest flaw of Avadon 2, like Avadon, like Avernum series, is the maximum experience level.

It becomes pointless to make sidequests, no more progression long before ending the game, just boring.

[Earth]

Don't limit character progression.

Biggest flaw of Avadon 2, like Avadon, like Avernum series, is the maximum experience level.

It becomes pointless to make sidequests, no more progression long before ending the game, just boring.

 

unlimited party levelling makes game designing more difficult since end enemy needs to be defeatable with party having done only needed quests and it/he/she cannot be too easy for party which has comped whole country thru hunting quests. in AEFTP player can level party beyond lvl 50 if bothers to do that and then boss-fights become easy.

[Arch]

I've been enjoying both the first and second part of this series. This post will mostly focus on the things I'd like to see improved. For some context, I've spent almost 90 hours on Avadon 2, completing the game on Torment and doing most(all?) sidequests.

• Less HP on general mobs on harder difficulty. I think the first Avadon game had a good balance. Enemies did a lot of damage, but I could focus down key targets with some tactics. I think the 2nd game in general had too many encounters that seemed to take forever to play through. Special fights are OK in my opinion. I enjoy hard fights, but punching through large hp pools gets old fast. There are many more interesting ways to make it hard, and still keep it interesting.
  
• Max level was reached about 2/3rd of the game. Considering how linear the game is, I doubt it was wasn't intentional decision, and I find it a little odd.
  
• Speaking of linearity, I disliked the frequent locking of areas that would only open on quest triggers. I especially disliked how quests like the Avadon Dungeon and the abandoned tinkermage place was progress-locked 3-4 times over the course of the main game. To me, it felt unnecessary. I don't mind retreating and coming back in a few levels if it becomes too hard, but in a RPG I'd like to make that choice myself, not have some arbitrary wall stop me until I've progressed a little more in the main quest line. I get that something should be 'locked away' until the game wants to trigger it, but for simple sidequests out in the woods, I think it is unnecessary. It takes away some of the enjoyment of exploring around. If I happen to pick up a quest item before I got the quest, then surely that's not the end of the world?
  
• I personally liked that you added romance stuff in Avadon 2. I was a little surprised to see that I wasn't able to persuade Silke over to the Pact side, given my previous friendship. Unfortunately for the PC, my loyalty to Avadon was greater than his pixel-needs.
  
• I liked that some midgame decisions made an appearance in the epilogue, specifically that my character had to face the consequences for drinking corrupted water and killing that assassin group. I think there could be room for a lot more consequences in midgame dialogue. Your writing and story is great; make it matter a little. Too many dialogues are 'solved' by an immediate quickload when results are immediate.
  
• I loved the new tinkermage class. It's a fun concept! In its current state, it did trivialize a lot of the encounters, though. In general, it made a torment run a lot easier than in the original.
  
• I noticed that (unlike Avadon 1) I wasn't able to replace enchantments on armors and weapons. I think this is a mistake, as it just makes me avoid crafting until endgame as I don't want to 'ruin' good gear by using less than optimal upgrades.
  
• I think the graphics are fine for this series, but the sound could be improved upon. A couple of nice background tracks would go a long way in my opinion. The main theme was perfectly fine. I understand that it's probably going to end up as a money issue.
  

Thanks for making a good game. I enjoyed most of it and I'm looking forward to the sequel!

[Earth]

1st Avadon party reached max lvl before confronting mad king and his mad shaman wife and we still had long trip ahead. It is intentional that party reaches max level way before endgame.

 

Doubt we get background music since that'd be extra work.

[Randomizer]

1st Avadon party reached max lvl before confronting mad king and his mad shaman wife and we still had long trip ahead. It is intentional that party reaches max level way before endgame.

It's intentional that a player that doesn't do all the side quests will be near max level before reaching the end. This gives them a chance to be strong enough to complete the game.

[Earth]

unlimited party levelling makes game designing more difficult since end enemy needs to be defeatable with party having done only needed quests and it/he/she cannot be too easy for party which has comped whole country thru hunting quests. in AEFTP player can level party beyond lvl 50 if bothers to do that and then boss-fights become easy.

 

aka game needs to be possible to finish with party which has done only necessary quests not just with party which has crisscrossed whole continent (and underground) thru multiple times.

[terra]

No more hidden switches, make them visible. complete waste of time looking for switches.

Too many overpowered monsters, too early in the game.

 

Avadon 2 difficulty is overkill...not fun

[Lilith]

No more hidden switches, make them visible. complete waste of time looking for switches.

Too many overpowered monsters, too early in the game.

 

Avadon 2 difficulty is overkill...not fun

 

Reading threads like this really makes me appreciate how hard it is to please everyone. Other people have posted to complain that the game is too easy, and that they miss the old secret passages that were even harder to find.

[Earth]

No more hidden switches, make them visible. complete waste of time looking for switches.

Too many overpowered monsters, too early in the game.

 

Avadon 2 difficulty is overkill...not fun

 

apparently you haven't played Avernum 1st trilogy, if your caster didn't have Farsight-spell then you spent alot time hitting your head on walls while searching hidden doors, in Avernum 2nd trilogy finding secret doors was more difficult since there were alot fake spots which looked same as hidden switches.

[Dear Potato]

I understand why level cap is appealing for developers, but as it is in Avadon (specially in Avadon 2) half part of the fun is out of the game, precisely when it's reaching its climax.

 

I really hope that for Avadon 3, Jeff seeks for a compromise with this. Personally, I wouldn't impose any kind of level cap, but since it seems to be here for staying, maybe it would be nice to spice up things after you reach that cap -for example, every level above 30, gives you a random +1 to attributes.

[Earth]

unlimited levels = more respawns (not that Avadons have much of those, some small corr crawlers in few places but that's it).

[hervelm]

unlimited party levelling makes game designing more difficult since end enemy needs to be defeatable with party having done only needed quests and it/he/she cannot be too easy for party which has comped whole country thru hunting quests. in AEFTP player can level party beyond lvl 50 if bothers to do that and then boss-fights become easy.

 

Doing all main and side quests, I guess you would rather finish around level 35. Whatever, this can be adjusted.

The point is that the game loses a lot (most) of interest when the progression is stopped. It becomes so boring.

To answer another argument; you may have a possibility to finish the game early (follow the main quest) but, if you want to make more muscles (and more sidequests) you should have the choice.

[adc.]

How about giving the Shadowwalker or all the characters a stealth mode skill? This way, you can reach characters and stabbing them from behind if it is high enough. Or a pickpocket ability with a chance to steal their weapons, leaving them unarmed? I know it sounds like Skyrim, but please mister Jeff?

-----

-Nightwatcher

[Earth]

if enemy doesn't have coded reward gotten after death then they are quite weapon- and armorless after death so pickpocketing is somewhat useless.

[adc.]

if enemy doesn't have coded reward gotten after death then they are quite weapon- and armorless after death so pickpocketing is somewhat useless.

The stolen weapon itself is the reward. In picking their pockets, you could steal their coins, scrolls, potions, weapons and other items. Armors are obviously excluded from the list for obvious reasons. If an item is unique or valuable, the chances for the item to be stolen would be low.

 

But I can see that Jeff had made the Shadowwalkers more like a ninja and less of a rogue/thief, so, there might not be a pickpocketing feature.

-----

-Nightwatcher

[Valdain the King]

One-Ability to play as redbeard and put the Kva to the sword whether by nuke or berserker leap.

Two-Ability to have a family with romance options and kids to become hands in Avadon 3.

Three-Resurrect Miranda

Four-Alcander to get locked into a prison in Wretch Lands

Five-Lord Svarl to become a playable npc in Avadon 3.

 

I cant think of anymore.

[Earth]

Corruption constructs respawn infinitely and come stronger everytime so getting to Miranda would be very difficult.

[springacres]

Alcander to get locked into a prison in Wretch Lands

As tempting as this sounds, I think it would be MUCH more fun to have him be Nicodemus' assistant. At the very least, it would give him something legitimate to gripe about. It might even neutralize Nicodemus' tendency to create dangerous and/or useless objects. (See Avadon 1's self replicating bricks, for instance.)

[springacres]

Also, it would be fun to be able to hire an artist IG and have them paint scenes like this...

 

 

[akindc]

Is there a quicksave feature on the iPad? Can't find it if there is. Also, the text on maps is unreadably small.

[jetcitywoman]

One thing that bugs me that I haven't seen anyone else mention is the centering on the active character during battles. I'm constantly fighting with the screen because I center it where I want it, usually showing most of my party and the enemy, and it keeps recentering itself on each of my players. Besides being generally annoying, it's a problem that it only centers on my players but not on the enemies. So in a big battle with a mob, things happen off screen.

 

I think a simple solution would be if the "center map on player" config setting worked for battles also. I turned it off so that I could manually move the map, but it still auto centers during battles.

[Jerakeen]

You're right, that's really annoying. It should be an option that can be turned off.

[Generic Shaper]

This actually applies to all of the Spiderweb games, but I'd really like to have the option to have a WASD control scheme to move your characters(Well, arrow keys probably, since WASD might intrude on some other hotkeys), since I'm that kind of guy who almost never has one hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard, either because of habit or my set-up makes it actually uncomfortable or unwieldy. Of course, I would still have to use the mouse to select characters and chests, but I'd manage.

 

I'd think it would fit in the Geneforge series especially well, since not having a hard and fast grid to move on makes path-finding during combat a little irritating if the computer was given a crowded, winding path to go through. It should also completely eradicate the frustration of a misclick sending a character into a suicidal fit and leaping crotch-first ineffectually into a horde of enemies.

[Mistah Q]

Here is what I'd like to see in Avadon 3.

 

1. Ability to see all companions' inventory, even when they're not with you. I don't know how many times I filled poor Yannick's inventory with longbows and titansteel bric-a-brac, because I couldn't remember if someone I left back at Avadon had something better or not. This should include being able to see all their equipped item stats while you are browsing a merchant's selection. I don't hoard everything per-se, but I do keep what might be useful or what will have a respectable resale value, and that would help.

 

2. Skribbane, or equivalent. Right now I'm playing a loyalist playthrough of Avadon 2 but I love the idea of running a rebel playthrough, catching my buzz and charging into battle, and later on, kicking tail and taking names to get my fix... "I AM A HAND, YOU WILL TURN THAT SCRIBBANE OVER TO ME OR DIE!" then 20 minutes later, "Ahh yeah, that's the stuff... heehee."

 

3. Money for everything. Especially early in the game you wind up with a lot if items like pants that the merchant doesn't want. Oh, just let me have one coin for it so I can throw it in my junk bag already. Besides maybe it would prevent the game having to remember the spot where I dumped all that stuff on the ground and maybe improve performance a tiny bit.

 

4. Allow the game to run in background mode. Everything already stops if you end up in combat, or special encounter, or conversation, so I don't think it would get you killed or make you miss anything vital. I'm an obsessive map exploration completionist but even were I not, sometimes you have to run in and out of a zone, or go to the middle of a zone you've already cleared for some new quest, or cross most of the way through a zone for whatever other reason. Especially if I've already cleared the enemies out, it would be nice to click to move someplace, then alt-tab to a new window to check my e-mail or whatever, then come back to the game and the characters will have moved.

 

5. More cabinets at home? I liked being able to buy a house. If that makes it to Avadon 3, I'd like a few more cabinets. I would have liked one cabinet to put weapons and armor in, a chest for all my runestones, a chest for my food items, a chest for my battle scrolls, a chest for my potions, a desk for my arcane scroll and pact papers, a chest for unique items, a bacon cabinet, you know. I liked being able to store "my stuff" but I had to make some tough choices about what to mix together in the same container. Also make the view of what's in said containers expandable so I can see more than a few at a time. Heck maybe even have one home we can buy that's in the farlands in case we decide to turn rebel.

 

6. One companion who's gung-ho super loyalist. To the Pact, to Avadon, not necessarily to the Keeper, but maybe even going so far as it would be a dilemma for them to help you take power unless you earned lots of flags, and they would have serious qualms with turning rebel - maybe you even lose them for doing that?

In A1 I could RP justify Nathalie and maybe Sevilin staying loyal but in A2 it's kind of hard with any of them, even though there seems to be less reason in general to rebel in A2. I would love a companion where their loyalism wasn't something I had to rationalize, but there's actually no doubt whatsoever.

It would even be a delicious irony if that companion turned out to be Tawonian, or Svorgaldian, etc.

 

7. Important NPCs don't run around so fast. Sometimes it was really tough and really annoying trying to click on somebody I needed to talk to as they bolted around the screen, sometimes offscreen. Especially since Jeff's games admittedly tend to appeal to an older gaming audience, perhaps a game setting geared toward accessibility. Some of it is already here with the option for larger text size, but I can have trouble with small details and precise hand movements so I actually use a code edit to make the secret buttons more discernible, it would be nice to have options to have those more see-able, to be able to click npcs to talk to who weren't running around so very fast... these aging bones would thank you!

[Earth]

2. unlikely

 

3. same and player usually has enuf money to buy whatever wants before final battles and doubt performance improves at all if you have sold all pants you can find or not

 

4. won't happen (or atleast is very unlikely)

 

5. sure if house is somewhat near portal or entrance to area otherwise trips would take time, you can store items to anywhere so more cabinets not that necessary

 

6. that wouldn't suit to game's theme

 

7. agreed but its not a big deal

[Mistah Q]

Maybe a ~2 second delay of being able to move, once combat starts... I seem to lose a lot of turns on my main character because combat mode started just when I was clicking somewhere, so the Blademaster moved 9 spaces and used up the turn. I just finished my first casual playthrough so no big deal, but when I play on hard that one turn can be a gamechanger.

 

Maybe also, those mini-events that pop up now and then, make them stay on the screen for a good 5 or 10 seconds. I feel like I've only got to read about half of the ones that have come up because I was in the middle of clicking something and it just goes away.

 

Someone mentioned not having the screen jump when combat switches between characters. I agree with that too.

 

[Earth]

delay would be nice but unlikely that we'll see it.

[mikeprichard]

I just tried to get into a replay of Avadon, and have to admit I couldn't do it. The linearity, the backtracking through the same relative handful of maps, the hard level caps (which I've hit 3/4 of the way through both Avadon 1 and Avadon 2)... in retrospect, it all makes me miss the good old days of Exile and the early Avernums. I guess the Avadon style is the "new" Spiderweb, but if Avadon 3 is like the first two, I don't think I'll be buying. I'm just looking forward to the remakes of Avernum 2 (fingers crossed for later this year?) and Avernum 3 (huge dynamic open world = best Spiderweb game ever).

 

Anyway, just the ramblings of a Spiderweb old-timer. Cheers!

[Dear Potato]

Right now, after some tries and experience, my only real grip is the level cap. I find myself terribly bored when I see my char at lvl 15, remembering the tedious battles that are before me, without any reward as experience or new levels...

 

I'm pretty sure I would not buy Avadon 3 if level cap is present in this form.

[Earth]

lvl cap might rise a bit but doubt it'll rise much beyond lvl 30 (35 maybe), uncapped is Avernums flavor and capped is Avadons flavor.

[Kelandon]

I'm pretty sure I would not buy Avadon 3 if level cap is present in this form.

Write an email to Jeff saying this. It won't have an effect by itself, but if a lot of people do, Jeff might take notice.

[Dear Potato]

Write an email to Jeff saying this. It won't have an effect by itself, but if a lot of people do, Jeff might take notice.

 

Sometimes, something like that goes trhough my mind but... I don't want to sound like a jerk or a mad fan to Jeff. I really admire his work.

 

But maybe you are right; maybe writing a simple, concise email about this particular topic, with a conciliatory tone could ring some bells. And if more than one of his fans do the same, who knows?

 

Thanks for the advice.

[Forget it]

One wish only.

 

HOLKLANDA RUNS WILD, BROTHER!

[xuerebx]

Realistically speaking, would JZ consider considerable changes to the game engine for future game iterations (excluding Avernum II)? I personally don't mind the retro graphics, I'd just like to see certain improvements in terms of more portraits, more character models etc. As it is the games feel too similar to each other. Not that it will stop me from buying more SS games.

[Earth]

bit unlikely that there'll be new engine since unless Geneforge will get remakes since that engine would be used only in 2 games aka Avadon 3 and Avernum 3 remake.

[nazaali]

Hi, lots of great suggestions here already.

 

I didn't see this mentioned, so:

 

Visualize open quests in a sensible way

 

Already in mid-game, Quest Log becomes bloated.

The same feeling of dread overcame me around the same time in Avadon 1, as well:

crazy amount of storylines/quests, names names names, can't compute...

 

They could be categorized in the log based on their location.

And/or, quests could be marked in the maps: for example, when you travel

to Corruption, and leave an area, you could see all your open quests in the map.

 

Also, characters giving you quests should be marked on the map, since you know

where they live or work. I think takes away lot of the fun from the game to try to remember

who was who and where did Elvyiah or Shondegaald etc reside.

 

Lastly, I had veen playing Shadowrun: Dragonfall before taking on Avdon 2, and I greatly

missed the chance to move after shooting. Taking cover also plays a big

role in Shadowrun, which is something that makes the fights much more dynamic.

But of course, it's another game, Avadon has different goals, so this is just a remark,

that's all.

 

Anyway, I love Avadon, will play them regardless

[Randomizer]

You used to be able to move after shooting, but Jeff hated how we exploited that to duck around a corner between our shots.

[Mac]

::: whispering ::: Small, probably silly request. I hope there'll be a way to free the Eternal Prisoner. For some reason I find that extremely disturbing.

[Jerakeen]

::: whispering ::: Small, probably silly request. I hope there'll be a way to free the Eternal Prisoner. For some reason I find that extremely disturbing.

I would be very surprised if his situation wasn't resolved one way or another in Avadon 3.

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

I also bet you that we resolve his situation by killing him instead of releasing him

[Randomizer]

Since it's the last game in the series, Redbeard returns and replaces him with you.