Rate Avernum 4.

[VCH]

As A4 is apparently available for Windows I believe it is time we all listed what we like and dislike about A4. I realise this discussion has already occurred, but one central comprehensive topic may serve this purpose better.

[Kingy]

Shouldn't this be in the Avernum 4 section?

[Aran]

I started playing it this morning.

 

I would be clamoring for a 0 option, but I feel I haven't played enough yet to make such a harsh judgement. So I gave it 1.

[Lilith]

Ehh. It's an 8 based on size and technical merit alone, even if it doesn't have a whole lot else going for it.

 

Now, off to Avernum 4 this topic goes!

 

...

 

Damn it, if only I'd had the foresight to prepare a humourous image for moved topics.

[&]

Why can't I vote?

It says I don't have permission.

[The Lurker]

I can't seem to be able to view the poll window either.

 

EDIT : I just noticed that the second part of my post could be badly misunderstood, so I deleted it.

[Lilith]

Huh. Perhaps UBB doesn't like it when polls are moved from one forum to another. Sorry about that.

[mohd yusuf]

i can't vote either.it says i don't have permission.

[Alex]

Too early to tell. It's been a while since I played either Geneforge or Avernum, so the "Avernumforge" mixture didn't bother me much.

[Thralni]

Quote:

Originally written by Thuryl:
Ehh. It's an 8 based on size and technical merit alone, even if it doesn't have a whole lot else going for it.

Now, off to Avernum 4 this topic goes!

...

Damn it, if only I'd had the foresight to prepare a humourous image for moved topics.

How about this?

[Randomizer]

I'll give it an 8 because the spell system brought back true area effects and they don't zap friendly party members like in Exile. The game does run too much like Genforge and the singleton games pretty much devolve into shaper, guardian, or agent style of play.

 

I miss the puzzles and especially the mind ones in Exile where you had to think and not just hack. The money limit (no carrysomething from where it is cheap to expensive) also forces you to prioritize what you buy so you can never max out something for the entire party.

 

I hope A5 goes back to A1 and 2 in that you have more choice in what you do next instead of this forced linearized plot line. At least in the Eastern Gallery you can choose a path until you are ready to slay Nodicaus.

[&]

I'll give it an 8 too.

[Kelandon]

Ach, A4.

 

There's a lot of hacking, most of it good. There's a plot that follows completely sensible lines but will surprise absolutely no one in the slightest bit at any point, so if predictability bothers you, this game is not for you. There are some old friends still around (although the mages like Solberg kind of freaked me out rather than re-assured me). But it really doesn't look or feel like Avernum.

 

I give it a 7: if this were a BoA scenario, I'd congratulate the designer on finishing something that was competent and mostly fun and so long, but I'd encourage him to work harder on the finer points next time. The shades were cool, but nothing else in the game developed atmosphere, and hacking gets old after a while: if I'm not inclined to play A3 again, I'm certainly never going to play A4 again.

[*i]

I agree with Kelandon's sentiment. If this were a BoA scenario by a newer designer, I would rate it significantly higher. However, because of the experience of the designer and the price tag, I will be a bit more harsh.

 

The innovative concepts and engine mimic a lot of modern BoA ones and add new ones. For this I congratulate the designer on. I would give a 9.5.

 

The plot, or absence thereof, is lackluster. The atmosphere to the previous Exile/Avernum games was far superior and in this I found quite lacking. Temperol inconsistencies from A3 are a big minus also. This end sorely needs a lot more effort and in the absence of length (which I feel is more than negated by having to pay $30), I would rate it a 5.0.

 

My personal preference is to weight plot and atmosphere higher than gameplay (I'll do a 3 to 1 ratio) and give it a ranking of 6.1.

[Alorael at Large]

I'd rate this 6.9 as a BoA scenario. It's E3/A3 minus any element of surprise or uncertainty and with an additional subtraction (heh) for recycling an old plot.

 

It's not a BoA scenario, though. As much as I like the old Avernum engine, I'm a big fan of the combat mechanics in A4. Combat balance was the best it's been in any Spiderweb game I've played. I had a lot of fun despite the plot.

 

So I'll call it a 7.9.

 

—Alorael, who would call it an 8.0 if it weren't so painfully clear that it's A3 underground.

[Ephesos]

Hm... start with a 7 for a fully functional game, add 2 for incredibly well-balanced and occasionally difficult combat. Subtract 1 for the simplicity of everything that isn't combat. Add .75 for getting to go back to Avernum, minus .25 for some strange quirks (where's Fort Ganrick, and why do herbs look different from every other Avernum?).

 

So, where am I then? 8.5? Okay, moving right along...

 

Minus 3 for the engine change, but plus 1.5 for making the transition less painful than it could've been. Minus 1 for the "run back to town to resurrect" concept, and minus 1 for the chitrach/clawbug thing (and for having a plague of chitrachs).

 

So, that's a 5 so far...

 

Add 1 for the shades, add .5 for making King Starrus not horrible, and add 1 for finally laying the whole Rentar-Ihrno thing to rest. Add .5 for the Darkside Loyalists, and add .5 for the triumphant return of the Jade Halberd and Demonslayer. (huh, back to 8.5) Minus 2 for losing elevation and boats in one fell swoop. Minus .5 for cave worms' very existence. Add 1 for the experience of dodging pylons (for once, needing to run around enemies instead of direct confrontation was nice). Add .5 for killing Garzahd (again).

 

Minus 1 for the total lack of replay value, but plus .25 for fixing the chitrachs, even if someone else had to supply the graphics...

 

6.75

[Kingy]

So why exaclty is polling disabled in this forum?

[Alorael at Large]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

—Alorael, who believes that everyone is able to vote now. Purely by coincidence, of course.

[Raiden]

i miss old game system, this new looks too much like geneforge,liked old one more.

[VCH]

It seems people are able to vote now. But they are still not able to view the poll results.

[Dintiradan]

By Raiden:

Quote:

i miss old game system, this new looks too much like geneforge,liked old one more.

I find I usually prefer ASCII graphics over mediocre ones. A1-3 graphics had so little detail, it was all up to the imagination. A4 graphics have much more detail, but not enough for realism.

 

--------------------

Camelot!

Camelot!

It's only a model.

Shh!

- Quest for the Holy Grail

[Inthrall]

Poll Results: Rate Avernum 4.  (17 votes.)

Rate Avernum 4.

Choose 1

1 18% (3)

 

2 12% (2)

 

3 0% (0)

 

4 6% (1)

 

5 6% (1)

 

6 12% (2)

 

7 18% (3)

 

8 24% (4)

 

9 0% (0)

 

10 6% (1)

 

For those who can't understand results...

 

[Berserkas]

i really hate thas its not avernum, but geneforge. and i also hate that it became very small.. now that theres no outdoors. you can walk to a town in a one zone while in avernum it was lke 200 little zones like that. everything's squished.

[Milu]

7:

 

Runs smoothly, it's not very slow (on my computer at least), I like the new "zones" somewhat and the combat and movement system are interesting, and refreshing changes.

 

I don't like some of the graphics (they're not ugly but from Geneforge), though many of the new graphics are nice. The plot was more disappointing, it felt partly recycled and some of it wasn't as convincing as it could have been. But it holds together.

 

I also miss the puzzles and hidden things. And the towns (or zones) could have had more than 2 floors sometimes.

 

I would rate all other Spiderweb games a little higher but wouldn't say this one was catastrophic.

[VCH]

Yes! I can finally view the results to my own poll. What a thought.

[Lord Bob]

Just beat it. On balance, enjoyed it. Worth the money. Probably still the weakest of the four.

 

The good news: Avernumforge didn't kill my brain. As everybody else has said, combat was wonderful, even though I was getting stomped repeatedly in the early game before my brain got into the groove. I like the idea that party members aren't dead, just unconcious, don't mind returning to town to heal, and went insane from having to return to town to reenergize. Spells were better, although Arcane Blow remains the Great White Elephant of the spell set. I liked walking around all of Avernum as if it were indoors A1-3 style a lot more than I thought I would. That was really neat. Elimination of mild annoyances as mentioned above. A lot of the graphics looked really neat. The fact that there's a new Exilvernum story for the first time since I learned Spiderweb existed. That neat bit of dialogue where the Empire tourist says that nobody's sure whether there were conveyer belts or lasers. No more "omg teh vahanati did it".

 

The bad news: omg teh vahanati did it. The end game (as in, the game actually ends when you pummel Rentar) irritated me to no end, since I had been planning to go back and deal with stuff like the Mertis undead, the Darkside guys, and a large list of other things after killing Rentar A1/A2 style. The whole Darkside name, just because it made me quote Star Wars for the entire game. Lack of elevation. Those little geographical oddities caused by moving the map over to an entirely new engine (I've played A1 and A2 about a dozen times, so I said 'hey, that's odd' so often I began to feel profoundly loserish). The fact that I could take my Shaper into a cavern full of fyoras. The fact that none of the character graphics I usually used were ported over. The end of those funny pictures for each skill and attribute on the character sheet. The Geneforge combat system, which annoyed me every time my one surviving warrior got slowed and couldn't attack anything, nicely allowing the wimpy monsters surrounding him to beat the tar out of him unimpeded.

 

I was going to put 'lack of the classic Avernum artifacts' as a bad, but apparently somebody up there met Demonslayer and the Jade Halberd while I didn't see any, so I can only presume I missed them because I inadvertantly skipped a large fraction of the game.

 

I think the bad list is longer than the good one, but a lot of the neat stuff about the three Avernums (the atmosphere, the just-one-more-cave value) was present here and, frankly, was too diverse to remark upon. As I said, though, I think it's still the weakest of the quadrilogy, although, surprisingly, it's not mostly the engine's fault. I vaguely liked the idea that Rentar'Ihrno could decide to go quietly (I was aggressive in our first confrontations, so she wasn't listening to my requests for peace). I'll replay it again at least once more to see what I missed. But my Avernum II CD will be getting a lot more wear than this one.

 

7.3 out of 10.

[Solymr]

Rating: 3

 

After really hyping myself up for a new Avernum game, I was sorely let down by Avernum 4. Expecting something similar to the previous titles, I was in for a surprise. While I do like the graphics engine a bit, I really do despair for elevation and boats, like many others. Combat proved to be entertaining, but if I wanted something hack 'n slash style I've already got Dungeon Siege 2. Was nice to see an end to Rentar Ihrno finally, but the Vahnatai involvement could be seen coming a mile away. Can't say I really took to the controls at all, being used to a more turnbased RPG in the Avernum series it did take some getting used to and I still don't think it is nearly as good as the previous titles.

 

Pros: Good graphical engine, hope to see similar in A5, good combat situations, the quit button.

 

Cons: The plot, no real atmoshpere to the game, mouse movement causes you to move really fast and not keep track of NPC movement/actions, poor PC graphic choice.

 

Summary: If you're a fan of the previous titles, you'll probably be very disappointed in Avernum 4. As an "offical" sequel, it falls very short of the mark compared to it's predecessors. If there is an Avernum 5, hopefully it will build from the strong points of both Avernum 1/2/3 and Avernum 4.

[Berserkas]

yeah i agree... avernum 4 STINKS! no boats, you cant move objects, no puzzles, walking is differents, stupid skill interface... IT JUST AINT AVERNUM ANYMORE. oh and.... i just wish Spiderweb would create something new. they said theyre working on geneforge 4, but that is getting ancient.... 1 was real good, 2 - same old same old, 3 - just plain boring... theres nothing new in it at all.

[Morgan M.]

I've been an avid fan since exile 3...and so far I'm very dissapointed...

 

I love the massive maps and the engine of exile 3! So far I really dont like how the screen does not keep your group in the center, it shifts them to the center when they get near the edge, which makes me feel like I'm gonna end up getting sick from all the jagged movement. The mouse moves slowly when the inventory box is open (bug?)

 

I'm VERY dissapointed that there is no character editor, I used the hell out of that thing in every single version of exile/avernum/nethergate, even if it was just to heal my group or give them money. I dont like the idea of using "cheats" but I guess I'll have to. Why is there no money cheat?

 

this seems like a /huge/ change from all the other avernums. and so far, I dont think I like it. I havent been outside the town yet, and if it's not the same experience of the older games I'll be quite sad.

 

there is no defend option when in battle...

 

I've loved all the games so far...this one dissapoints me, it's too much like geneforge, which I didnt much like...

morgan

[JadeWolf]

8. I nice game, but the new interface was a bit confusing at first. I haven't bought it yet, though.

[Sullust]

Just a little add in, with the current input, ignoring the lowest and highest votes, we have a rating of 6.04. (Note: This is at the 48 vote level)

[Suspicious Vlish]

*sigh*

My 'expectations' for Avernum 4 were fulfilled. Same old trash repackaged, and sold as an 'exciting new sequel to Avernum 3'.

 

Predictable = Organized attacks of monsters attacking Avernum. As soon as I heard this, I knew who was behind it. So much for a plot twist. Because of this, I was tempted to uninstall the game during the first 5 minutes.

 

Empty = No believable decent plot, no characters worth listening to (I just skip the dialogue these days), no atmosphere whatsoever.

 

Repetitive = Wow, goblin slaying and nephil slaying... again (in approximately the same places, to add insult to injury). Visiting Metris, which is plagued by undead... again. Running to the Castle to get major quests... again. Major characters sitting on their rear doing nothing... again.

 

Boring = Cut this, slash that, use your mediocre skills to pwn some silly little monsters. *YAWN*.

 

Awkward = The interface is a pain in the rear. Nuff said.

 

Buggy = It eats up 100% of my CPU (!!!??) and freezes. Sometimes the game won't even start. This stuff should be ironed out in the beta.

 

Linear = There is very little freedom, unlike Exile 1, 2 and 3. You are pushed and thrust about like putty. 'Go here, do this, shoot this clown.' Just leave me alone.

 

Lack of decent character models = Two nephil and slith graphics? Same old cheesy human graphics from past Avernums? I've heard that Jeff is excusing this by claiming that he'll add graphics in Avernum 5. Umm, right. Obviously you should rectify obvious mistakes and gaps in future sequels (which will no doubt be as trashy as Avernum 4), instead of rectifying them before releasing the present sequel. *SIGH*. What's with designers releasing incomplete, buggy sequels?

 

Rating = 2. And I'm being generous.

[Shine123]

When I played Geneforge, I liked the moving-around thing better than Avernun, but I wished the characters would move a little faster when covering distances. Now that they are, in Av4, I think it's just silly. Everyone zips around like some comedy skit turned on fast forward. Might be part of why some people are saying this lacks atmosphere.

Going to town to heal bothers me. Surely, the astute adventurer knows how to find some hidden spot to rest up during his travels through the wilderness. This worked just fine in previous versions where, sensibly, one cannot rest if there are monsters nearby.

Why am I carrying all this food around???

Some underground areas are too dark on my monitor. Give me back my torches!

I do like the unconscious thing a lot.

[Dikiyoba]

You eat the food for a minor health gain.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Firecage]

avernum 4 is great and all....but it feals like they took the avernum out of the avernum and turned it into geneforge.

[nikki.]

It's not too bad. I especially like Motrax's Cave and Formello.

 

I would list reasons, but, I can't be bothered. And I've only completed the demo.

 

Anyway, I give it an 8