Solymr

I think the engine used in A4 didn't give nearly the same kind of atmosphere for the one used in the previous Avernum's. That being said, hopefully Jeff will use some kind of "hybrid" engine, bring the best of both engines to bear. As for Avernum 5's setting, bringing back old foes never really made anything new. Maybe do it in the same game, where the foe either makes an escape or you never see them "die" only to reappear later and die horribly at your hands. Also, consider that the lands of Avernum that we all know and love have had at least three groups of adventurers (A1, 2 and 4) running around and beating the #$!* out of any slightly evil looking creature. Goblins pop up, sure. But eventually races are going to start going extinct and certain areas are going to become rather barren in terms of things to kill and adventure against. There were those few places to the far northwest in A2 with the Empire checkpoints you couldn't get past. It'd be interesting to find out what lies beyond them, by now most (if not all) of the Empire fortifications would have crumbled, making some nice ruins for adventurers to come and pillage for anything that might have been left behind. As for style of play, A2 has to be my favorite. You actually felt that your groups actions affected the world, for instance killing the perma-hasted Empire general Limoncelli (sp?). A3 added a nice idea as well, having towns "fall" to the plagues after a certain amount of time. It'd be interesting to see the war being fought in a Wing Commander style, i.e if you fail a mission, the enemy would gain an advantage over your "side" and possibly could take a town/fort or inflict massive losses on their enemy's army. Also in A2, you had to earn your rank and work your way up to see the King, proving your worth to Avernum and in the process gaining use of resources such as the portal in the Tower of Magi. The only question is this; who'd wage war against Avernum? They're at peace with the Empire, the Vahnatai are rather overused, IMHO, as an opposing "side", the empire of Sliths beyond Bahssikava is 1. pretty far off and 2. as Kelandon said, in an unknown condition. Also these Sliths are supposedly a more civilised and peaceful people then the Sliths in the caves of Avernum. The Nephilim haven't had any significant forces in as long as I know, even those in the forts of A1 weren't exactly trained crack troops. Demons, WAY overused plot device there. Goblins, they'd probably make decent cannon fodder in an army but I can't really see Goblins making up their own "empire". In fact, I can't see any of the other humaniods of Avernum (giants, ogres, whatnot) forming an empire, of themselves or each other. One thing that I know I’d like to see more of is the politics of the Empire, and its differing parties. We saw a brief sign of it in A3; those trying to stop you from seeing the Empress in Blackcrag Fortress. If it is as delicate as it was made out to be, it’d be a nice change of pace from the caves of Avernum and blindly smashing the first slime to crawl out from between the rocks.

Probably the best thing about this game is the ability to quit, IMHO.

Rating: 3 After really hyping myself up for a new Avernum game, I was sorely let down by Avernum 4. Expecting something similar to the previous titles, I was in for a surprise. While I do like the graphics engine a bit, I really do despair for elevation and boats, like many others. Combat proved to be entertaining, but if I wanted something hack 'n slash style I've already got Dungeon Siege 2. Was nice to see an end to Rentar Ihrno finally, but the Vahnatai involvement could be seen coming a mile away. Can't say I really took to the controls at all, being used to a more turnbased RPG in the Avernum series it did take some getting used to and I still don't think it is nearly as good as the previous titles. Pros: Good graphical engine, hope to see similar in A5, good combat situations, the quit button. Cons: The plot, no real atmoshpere to the game, mouse movement causes you to move really fast and not keep track of NPC movement/actions, poor PC graphic choice. Summary: If you're a fan of the previous titles, you'll probably be very disappointed in Avernum 4. As an "offical" sequel, it falls very short of the mark compared to it's predecessors. If there is an Avernum 5, hopefully it will build from the strong points of both Avernum 1/2/3 and Avernum 4.

Quote: Originally written by Imban 3442: A4 is awful, no? Doesn't even begin to sum it up. You could slap the name Geneforge on it and it wouldn't seem out of place. I can see why Jeff Vogel would want to move on from the engine Avernum uses, but why oh why have it in the same style as Geneforge? I'm sure it suits Geneforge quite well, but it just doesn't mesh with the previous Avernum games. As Kelandon said, I think the biggest thing holding back BoA is the lack of an editor with intergrated scripting/dialog. Makes me wish I knew more then mere crumbs of coding knowledge in my possession now. Edit: Heh, oops, my bad. You evil people and changing your names

When I first made the move from Exile to Avernum, I didn't really like Avernum much at all. The skill system kind of threw me a bit, but in time I grew very fond of it all. Like Imban, A4's sent me back to BoA. I was hoping for better in A4, but it looks like BoA is the only way I'll get my Avernum fix now.

Yes, Exile's PC's sure did look like they were up to the task. I still remember thinkign how cool Exile 1.0's PCs looked. They'd have no trouble dispatching their A4 counterparts I'd wager. Seriously, anyone who holds a weapon like they do has NO idea what they're doing. I can just imagine everyone snickering behind their backs now.

Quote: Originally written by Ephesos: This discussion's been had many, many times now... but we'll do it again. Sorry, poor widdle ol' me only just got to play and needed to vent my disappointment. Quote: So yeah, it's not quite as horrible of a monstrosity as some (read: TM) will say, but it's not the Avernum we've come to love. Thus, I'm happy to have returned to BoA. That being said, I pretty much felt that if A4 didn't live up to what Avernum fans were used to that BoA would get renewed interest. I think some BoA players were going to use A4 to get their Avernum "fix" and seeing how things have turned out, I'm sure BoA will probably have more, if any, scenarions in the works now. I am sorry I've dredged this back up though, now I feel the pain many of the Mac users had for the first release. I did like the new graphics however, except possible the PC graphic where they just sort of hold the sword in the same manner I'd hold a burning torch. I really did like the more "action ready" look of A1/2/3/BoA's PCs, but that's just me.

After eagerly awaiting this game, and hoping against hope that Mac Avernum fans were wrong about it, I downloaded the demo. I think my biggest problem with A4 is going into it expecting it to play like the previous Avernum games. Big mistake. This feels TOTALLY different to Avernum in so many ways that I think if the game wasn't called Avernum 4 and the names of places were different, I'd believe it was not part of the series. I really do get the idea that this game was aimed more for those that enjoy the Geneforge series, as it has more of that feel about it. And while I'd agree it's a nice idea to get more people into Avernum, I just don't think most Avernum fans will really get into A4 when compared with the previous titles in the saga. Maybe a case of sequel syndrome here, a lot of the things I liked about A1/2/3 seem to be missing and a lot of new elements I'm not fond of have replaced them. Anyone agree/disagree?

I think comparing BoA to BoE is probably not the best idea, even more so in terms of scenario quantity. BoE had a much simpler editor, no real need for scripting at all and you could lash together a small scenario in a week or so. BoA requires people to understand the simple scripting langauge, and while it is simple, it does put a lot of people off. I do think, however, there will be more people who will get back into BoA, esp after how Avernum 4 was not much of an Avernum style game compared to it's previous titles.

Quote: Originally written by Feathin Silyar: Then you downloaded the wrong one. Avernum 4 for windows is in there.[/QB] What they mean is that they expected an Avernum style game and got something that's basically Geneforge.

I've been complaining about this problem for a while, to no avail. I seriously doubt its ever going to be changed/fixed, I still don't see the reason for it even being in there in the first place.

I'd be interested in testing too, if it isn't too late. My email is solymr@ihug.com.au.

I have to say Isaac, this is very damn impressive. The BoA community will be singing songs in your name till the ends of time. I guess instead of my girlfriend kicking me off my PC, I'll be kicking her off her Mac so I can try out this amazing utility.

It still feels rather sloppy, when not just limit the usefull skills affected by this to 200, yet allow the skills/stats that affect them to be trained to 100 or so still? And I doubt you can intend for people to play a game a certain way. If you don't intend people to have max skills/stats, why include the ability to raise them to such a level?

It might be level related in the fact that I can get resistances up to 200 with no trouble and the same for item lore. If I can be bothered I'll try with different levels to see if that makes a difference, as I've stated before the above limit of 200 comes with a character at level 250, human, no traits.