Thoughts about Avernum 6?

[Øther]

But what about the Dorikas ending? How would Redmark still be alive?

[Acky]

Jeff might want him to live. Remember how Alwan should be dead?

 

The Last Archon

[Toby-Linn]

Jeff will probably go with the more acceptable ending, i.e. being a good little Empire Soldier (adventurer) and killing Dorikas.

 

I think the fact that you can join both sides is more for replayability value.

[Earth]

Dorikas death is canon like Rentar-Ihrnor's death is at A4,

 

Redmark's death if chose loyalist's way is just way to get ppls to play game 2nd time.

[Acky]

Why not? If its the Dorikas ending, then we could see a potential second war with Avernum, which would an interesting setting. Redmark, however, didn't show any great desire to retake Avernum at all. You shouldn't just throw ending away without a legit reason other than, "Its just a way for get people to play the game a second time."

 

The Last Archon

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

Dorikas' death does not imply the breakdown of the Darkside Loyalists. They do have other resources, and may (if not must) still be a factor in A6 (unless it's set a very long time after A5, which wouldn't be very Jeff-like).

This way or that way, there is always enough potential of conflict between the Empire and the Avernum government.

 

But then, I don't think A6 will be about another Empire war. The vahnatai are far more likely to be the main antagonist, considering how things have developed over the course of A1-5.

 

Anyhow, no plot can work for A6 if it ignores one of the major problems the previous games didn't solve. The fundament must be a combination of the various colliding factions as well as the changed environmental and economic situation.

Remember how hardliners from the Empire and the vahnatai helped each other because they both didn't want their peoples to to get along?

[Earth]

many of us doubt if jeff will make a6 with 2 storylines: 1 where redmark was killed and 1 where he lived.

 

redmark is busy chasing remnants of darksiders and maybe taking care of others who wanted to be empire.

 

we haven't seen real vahnatais vs avernites war so far only radical vahnatais trying to kill avernites.

[Feo Takahari]

Then again, some of A5's comments about the expansion of Avernum's population could be seen as foreshadowing for a conflict provoked by that expansion, presumably with the Vahnatai. It would certainly fit Jeff's recent themes.

[Earth]

alot space in caves to populate w/o going to vahnatai's land but could be.

[Sss-Chah]

i think i said it in this thread, but if dorikas becomes emperor, it'll just be avernum 1 all over again.

[Toby-Linn]

Originally Posted By: Interview with Jeff Vogel

5. How about Avernum 6? What changes are in the pipeline for this one? Will character creation see any changes?

 

The game engine will be much the same. Character Creation won’t change much. If it did, it wouldn’t be Avernum. I’d get a lot of angry E-mails.

 

Much of the work for Avernum 6 has gone into the graphics engine. It will be the nicest looking Avernum game by far. And, of course the story. Avernum 6 has a really cool and detailed story. About the end of Avernum.

I got the relevant part about Avernum 6, here's the rest of the Interview done by RPG Codex:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=187

[Sss-Chah]

also, someone said something about a new series in here. it looks like that's exactly what jeff wants to do.

[madrigan]

How do you interpret Jeff's statement about "the end of Avernum"? Do you think he means the end of the game series, or is he hinting at the plot? It could mean that the caves are literally destroyed, or that the Empire conquers Avernum, or simply that the Avernites agree to be part of the Empire again. Possibly the plot will revolve around an Avernite-Empire alliance against the Vahnatai.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

How do you interpret Jeff's statement about "the end of Avernum"? Do you think he means the end of the game series, or is he hinting at the plot? It could mean that the caves are literally destroyed, or that the Empire conquers Avernum, or simply that the Avernites agree to be part of the Empire again. Possibly the plot will revolve around an Avernite-Empire alliance against the Vahnatai.

Congratulations: you just put more thought into Jeff's statement than Jeff did.

[Sss-Chah]

i was thinking the same thing, actually. i mean, "the end of avernum" is different than "the end of the avernum series". but i don't know.

[Toby-Linn]

I think he's hinting at the plot, as in the end of Avernum.

 

But as to how it happens I haven't a clue.

[Sss-Chah]

"and the end of avernum" as a separate sentence definitely means something.

[The Mystic]

I think Jeff meant it was just the end of the Avernum series. Avernum itself can easily live on thanks to BoA.

[Alorael at Large]

No, I think he's saying that something earth-shattering, maybe even literally, will bring an end to the Kingdom of Avernum for good or for ill. Given the multiple endings for Jeff's recent games, maybe both.

 

Of course, this being Jeff, it could also just be something he said because it's a great, intriguing phrase to toss out there and get more people to play. After all, if demon lords, slithzerikai, nephilim, an invasion by the Empire (i.e. the entire world), vahnatai vengeance, and conspiracies can't get everyone out of the caves, it would take quite a deus ex machina to end Avernum.

 

—Alorael, who does expect the end of the series to be detailed, epic, and worth playing. This is goodbye (again) to the flagship series of Spiderweb Software, and Jeff has to want to do right by it.

[Randomizer]

It might just mean the end of Avernum as a series and the next version will be under a completely different name.

[jORDO]

I rarely post, and only in this thread; but a thought I had been toying around with was bringing back the one handed spears. In early Exiles, or Avernums, or both, there are some one handed spears. The specific one I remember is the Ghoulbane Spear. Also, I think one of them had the Smite as a one handed spear. Anyway, that would be interesting. An additional factor I pondered was the possibility of using ALL two handed weapons one handed, but with a reasonable negative to-hit percentage, and/or less damage dealt. I started thinking about this while playing Avernum 4, while having the Quicksilver Sandals, Mercuric Leather, Quicksilver Bulwark, and the Cryos Spear. An additional +4 AP, plus some other ups and downs. At first I was thinking in terms of getting more AP, but I started to see pole weapon/shield combos that would be stellar, even with penalties on the damage and to-hit. It would also allow pole weapon users to use a shield. In the same vein, kinda reversed, would be bonuses to damage for any longblade wielded without a shield. Add a little tweak to add a whole outlook on outfitting strategy.

[Alorael at Large]

There's already very little to distinguish swords and spears besides extra defense vs. extra damage. Take that away and you just have different flavors and different artifacts available. I think that was the reason for the one-handed/two-handed complete split.

 

—Alorael, who more importantly thinks Jeff won't fiddle with damage and equipment on the last game of a series with what may be the last use of the engine. It's not unbalanced, and he'd be better off not fiddling.

[jORDO]

Word. I must say this: In some ways, I am glad you can't dual-wield in Avernum. However, once you get all the sweet gear, I always end up with way more swords than I know what to do with. I must also state that I generally use a 3 person party (human, nephil, slith), sometimes 2 (though I hate myself until half way through the game), so spreading out the really good gear is really easy. The best part about the dual-wield in the Exiles was the ability to stack weapon effects with each attack. Poison+flame, etc. The introduction of a second swing instead of the duals makes for difficult choices in areas where weapon element may be great on some, no effect on others (I.E. flaming sword). Anyway you slice it, I am chewing my fingers to the bone in anticipation of VI.

[Cryomancer]

Dual-wielding made life easier in the Exile series from about mid-game and on, when both weapons would start hitting reliably. Dual-wielding in Avernum, with the damage system the way it is (at least in A1-A3) would be total overkill. Since damage was much more toned down in the Es, dual-wielding was super for making those arduously long battles somewhat less annoying. However I loved the epic, long battles of the Es and sorely missed them in the As until A5. Even the boss fights in the As just seemed to happen much too quickly, whereas in the Es it could take a super long time.

[jORDO]

I saw a thread somewhere about "the best boss battles" of As and Es. I have to say, I liked Exile II the best of them all. Something about having no idea what you are up against, the moment you step into Formello really hooked me the first time I played it. A good callback was in A4, where there were again barriers to hold us in the north eastern quadrant. But I am getting off topic. In E2, for each of the three main quests, the last battle was intense. I guess the crystal souls quest had a few large ones, but you know what I mean. Garzhad and his crazies were priceless. Elderann and Limoncelli. Even the not so main quests had big, and kinda slow, last battles. The quest to get the Orb of Thranli was a killer, as was the Ring of Will quest. I almost want to see every throwback possible in A6, but whatever Jeff does will astound.

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Hasted Sloth

After all, if demon lords, slithzerikai, nephilim, an invasion by the Empire (i.e. the entire world), vahnatai vengeance, and conspiracies can't get everyone out of the caves, it would take quite a deus ex machina to end Avernum.

Floods (natural or unnatural), famine (same as prev), cavequakes (same as prev), volcanic activity (same as prev), iceage (same as prev), etc and mages can't do anything to prevent that.

[Sss-Chah]

i'm not sure how an ice age would destroy the caves.

[Student of Trinity]

Freeze their stalactites off.

[Locmaar]

Great. Entire quadrants of impassable terrain, due to stalagtite downfall. Coul make for a nice, stage-like setting, though. The party's PCs tearing each other apart in maddening fits of claustrophobia. I just don't see how single torment will work out.

[Slawbug]

Just as long as Rentar-Ihrno isn't behind the ice age.

[Toby-Linn]

I don't think there are any cold areas in Avernum, except for where ice puddings reside and ice drakes, etc.

 

In fact most of the time it's described as hot and humid with lava. Maybe there'll be an earthquake that will tear apart Avernum?

[Alorael at Large]

If geologic activity hasn't wrecked Avernum yet, a tremendous, literally earth-shattering quake would be even more of a deus ex machina than yet another cave-dwelling race.

 

Floods make very little sense. They happen on the surface because of changes in weather. Barring literal trickle-down from the surface, which probably is just a trickle, there isn't enough fluctuation in caves to produce them.

 

Cave temperatures are notoriously stable. An ice age would ruin the Empire, but it would leave Avernum intact except for the influx of desperate refugees. Ice ages don't happen over just a few years, though, so there'd have to be an immense jump in time between A5 and A6.

 

Famine could happen, although not due to weather. Terrible mushroom blight is a possibility, or even crop failures in the Empire that affect Avernum. It would inevitably end up being a magical conspiracy, though. It always does.

 

—Alorael, who could at least ask for some originality. This time it could be Garzahd's miserable, tormented, shambling revenge!

[Slawbug]

Plague! The normal kind, not the monster variety.

[Alorael at Large]

And the intrepid adventurers have to go traipsing around looking for graymold again? The problem with natural disasters is that the fix is usually a matter of logistics and not daring deeds.

 

—Alorael, who still holds onto hope for a game in which a small group of Avernites gets stranded somewhere in caves and you get to play the scouts trying to save everyone. You have a reason to start out puny and you can have an entire game of Dark Waters.

[Dikiyoba]

Famine would be a logical possibility, considering how overcrowding was a theme in A5. If food and land for farms is already stretched thin, it would only take a minor disaster to cause it.

 

The famine would be resolved by having a group of adventurers resurrect Erika and Rentar-Ihrno and get them to work together just long enough to recreate the manna spell from Exile. Alternatively, the adventurers could just kill everyone. Then there would no longer be overcrowding and food shortages.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Earth]

lol@dikiyoba

 

to resurrect Erika and Rentar would require party finding some semi-god/goddess or god/goddess.

 

 

another disaster could be deads rising from graves with or w/o "outside" help or all drinking gremlins wine and getting lunatic or Solberg finally losing last of his screws.

 

too many non-natural disaster has happened in Avernum to think any BIG non-natural disaster.

 

flood is possible although unlikely since water comes from surface to Avernum and would require massive flood at empire lands.

 

empire could find place where waters goes down from surface and poison it.

[Randomizer]

It's more likely a competition for resources. The Circle of Life cult gets too successful in their breeding program and now the Avenites have to fight them off.

[The Mystic]

The Vanhatai could teleport everyone else out of the caves, and then seal themselves in.

[Acky]

So A6 is gonna be a spin off?

 

Full House: Vanhatai Version

 

The Last Archon

[Callie]

Is Micah still king in A5? If so, isn't it about time for him to die?

[The Mystic]

I think someone else is king in A4, so he's probably the late King Micah in A5.

[Tarson]

He dies before A4. A new king called Starus or something comes in.

[Toby-Linn]

It's his son, Starrus, who is King in Avernum 4.

 

We don't get to see him in A5, but I would assume he's still King.

[Acky]

He is. The mayor of New Hartson talks about him a bit.

 

The Last Archon

[Callie]

Yeah, maybe I should actually play A4 so I don't ask silly questions like that. It kind of leaves a gap when you've played the first trilogy, skipped A4, and then played A5, though I probably missed the mayor's comment in New Harston.

[Acky]

Naw. You don't really need A4 to understand what happens in A5. And thats speaking from experience. There is a DL plot in A4, but its a sideshow.

 

The Last Archon

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Lexicon in Reverse

If geologic activity hasn't wrecked Avernum yet, a tremendous, literally earth-shattering quake would be even more of a deus ex machina than yet another cave-dwelling race.

One of my abandoned BoE scenario ideas was set in an alternate history in which the adventurers in E2 had failed to seal the Empire Portal correctly, causing an explosion and subsequent series of massive cavequakes that devastated both Exile and the surface. The plot structure intentionally mirrored E1's, with three main goals to complete.

Firstly, the party were sent out from their village in Exile as scouts to find a permanent source of safe drinking water, because the well that the village relied on had been contaminated with toxic minerals. Secondly, a plague of bizarre fungi had emerged from the deep caves because of the cavequakes, and they had to be dealt with by digging down into the main fungal mass that was spawning them and setting some quickfire. Thirdly, Garzahd had come back as a Crystal Soul and had to be killed, because I was 14 when I wrote all this.

Of course, that specific idea works better as a scenario than as an actual game.

[Sleeping Dragon]

I would have played it.

[avvv]

As long as there is the anvil dropping spell, everything is fine.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

Agreed. Whoever the last main villain is in A6, whatever evil masterplan is destroyed by his/her death, the executioner should be X with his anvil, Erika/Rentar-style.