Thoughts about Avernum 6?

[Callie]

Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn

Isn't he the first Vahnatai you meet in A2? The one in Formello when the cavequake happens? And why am I thinking of a Vahnatai called Bohen-Ihrno? Is he someone else?

He's the one who appears in Formello, though you meet an insignificant friendly vahnatai before you enter the rapids.

[Slawbug]

No, he's not. Bon-Ihrno is the one who appears in Formello. Bohen (who has various titles applied to him in different games) is a different vahnatai.

[Callie]

Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn

Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno

Bon-Ihrno dies in A3, in the vahnatai lands, just before the final showdown.

Ah yes, he dies depending on whether or not you rest when you get to his house. I was sad when he died, as I liked him.

Isn't he the first Vahnatai you meet in A2? The one in Formello when the cavequake happens? And why am I thinking of a Vahnatai called Bohen-Ihrno? Is he someone else?

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn

Yes, ADoS, the game assumes that you didn't kill Rentar, please see A4 for details.

I meant A3, not A4. I thought I read that the ending was the same regardless of whether you killed Rentar. Maybe I'm just confusing it with Stalker in ASR.

[Alorael at Large]

A3 has the same ending regardless of Rentar-Ihrno's death because she isn't supposed to be killable.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't understand the comment about Stalker. That scenario does give you different endings depending on who's left alive at the end.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

If you join the Empire and then kill Jaen after you kill Stalker, you get a different ending than if you didn't kill Jaen. However, if you join the rebels and kill Stalker, the game pretends you didn't kill him.

[Toby-Linn]

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff

Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn

Yes, ADoS, the game assumes that you didn't kill Rentar, please see A4 for details.

I meant A3, not A4. I thought I read that the ending was the same regardless of whether you killed Rentar.

I mentioned A4 because it tells you what happens to Rentar Ihrno after the events in A3. That's why I said see A4 for the details. I know we were not talking about A4's ending.

Slarty, what games does Bohen-Ihrno appear in? Oh wait, I just thought of something, is he one of the friendly Vahnatai in A4? The emissary that you have to rescue in the sewers of Almaria?

[Karacan]

I actually was rather disappointed when I got told that the Empress died. From Exile III, she was the only empire character I actually started to like, and it was actually Prazaac who was the reason I stayed loyal to the Empire all the time, trying to eliminate the threat to her.

 

I do suspect that Redmark is ambitious enough to have assisted her passing away.

 

 

Seeing that Athron's brood is maturing fast and she has several eggs hidden across the world, I am pretty certain that dragons are going to play a more significant role in A6.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn

We'll probably get to visit Blackcrag Fortress again, that could be one of the portals to limited areas.

Oh, but Blackcrag isn't the main seat of the Emperor, as in A3 it is stated that Empress Prazac is visiting Blackcrag Fortress. So maybe we'll actually get to see the Empire's actual castle? (I don't know what it's called, sorry).

The Empire's castle is called the Royal Spire. You get to visit it in A2, but you only see some of the innermost chambers and corridors.
Blackcrag Fortress was built to segregate Valorim from the rest of the world, so its significance must've diminished even more since A3. I don't know why we should get to visit it again. The only reason would be that we'll have to enter or leave Valorim that way, and Valorim's story is completely irrelevant to the second Avernum trilogy. Other parts of the surface are reachable in other ways.

[Tarson]

You go to the royal spire in avernum 1 not 2. As the mission is to kill the Emperor, the third major quest of A1. In a2 the closest you get to going to the surface is the empire control lands in avernum. As for blackcrag, you could just use the theives guild tunnel.

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn

Slarty, what games does Bohen-Ihrno appear in? Oh wait, I just thought of something, is he one of the friendly Vahnatai in A4? The emissary that you have to rescue in the sewers of Almaria?

Bohen-Ihrno appears in A3 and has something to do with some crypt cleaning.

[Slawbug]

Actually, Bohen appears in both X2 and X3, and is a she. In X2, Bohen is a warrior guarding Abra, while in X3 Bohen is an Ihrno who works with him. How she became an Ihrno is a bit of a continuity problem, because Abra states that they have been doing missions for their people together "for some years" and even makes an offhand reference to the mission they are on in X2.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

@smeghead: I obviously mistyped.

 

As for Bohen, I'm not sure about her career. She sure is a nice gal, though.

[Feo Takahari]

New plot idea that occurred to me: remember that giant in A5 who had plans to "rise" and turned out to be hiding giant children in a back room? For the past five games, the playable species have been forcing monsters into submission and slaughtering those who rebel. Now they unite to rise up against their oppressors, aided by the lower-class humans who've grown sick of the tyranny of Dorikas, and . . . Oh dear, I've gone Averforge again, haven't I?

 

P.S. Then again, something of this order, with less of an obvious Geneforge parallel, might actually be Jeff's best option. Since he wants to have 4-6 be the "Darkside Loyalist Trilogy," perhaps he could set up an Enemy Mine situation, with our heroes as members of the anti-Dorikas rebellion and monsters allied temporarily with said rebellion. Dorikas certainly seems the type to embark on widespread extermination of giants and the like.

[Slawbug]

Not just the past five games -- the past several centuries. The Empire has been methodically hunting down and slaying magical creatures and demihumans of all varieties for a long, long time.

[Sss-Chah]

dorikas as emperor would basically end up with another assassination attempt by your party.

[Toby-Linn]

Maybe that's what will happen then, it's an interesting idea.....think about it, the Avernum series has come full circle.

 

Assuming Dorikas is in charge and he starts trying to invade Avernum again and you need to assasinate him.....or join him and kill the King of Avernum, Micah's son!

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

I don't think that's gonna happen. Much can be said about Avernum's storyline, but not that it's repetitive. Things point into the direction of civil war within the Empire, not another invasion of Avernum.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno

I don't think that's gonna happen. Much can be said about Avernum's storyline, but not that it's repetitive.

Avernum 3: Rentar-Ihrno takes revenge upon humanity by creating monsters to attack cities.

Avernum 4: ...

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno

I don't think that's gonna happen. Much can be said about Avernum's storyline, but not that it's repetitive.

Avernum 3: Rentar-Ihrno takes revenge upon humanity by creating monsters to attack cities.

Avernum 4: ...

Avernum 4: Rentar-Ihrno takes revenge upon humanity by creating monsters to attack selected cities.

A1: Party kills Emperor.
A2: Empire strikes back.

No repetitive at all ;P

[Dark.Fenix]

u guys forget something, dorikas "mysterious" death.

 

remember that u have 2 possible outcome for his death, 1-u give him a soldier death (much like what u see in the gladiator movie) and 2-another where he "burns" himself.

 

either way there apears a letter in the throne that wasnt there when u left, that said (not literaly) that this fortress was his ultimate gift, this "his" refers to whom? who put the letter there? isnt this a litle strange that the letter apear there after ruth, dorikas and any major char were dead?

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

Maybe Dorikas conversed with the Almighty?

 

Yeah, of course. I forgot about the monster plagues in A4 because I (and for me, who has always been a faithful fighter for Avernum rights, this is most shameful to admit) never played it. I only thought of the chase after Dorikas.

 

How? How could I not think of you instantly, Rentar? Has my eternal hate for you lost its fire? ...

[Feo Takahari]

Come to think of it, if beta testing has begun already, the plot must be pretty well nailed down. It'll be interesting to see what Jeff actually creates--quite possibly, something we're not expecting at all. (I could never have come up with the plotline of A2 on my own.)

[Randomizer]

Jeff has written some of the plot back during A5, but beta testing for A6 hasn't begun yet. He still is writing the actual dialog for all those zones in the demo.

 

Jeff traditionally starts beta testing for Macs in the summer, August is the usually time.

[Locmaar]

Aldous,

 

I think you have a very valid point there. One of my favourites is Exile 2 for the reasons you mentioned.

 

After Nethergate I quit playing Jeff's games for a while (nothing to do with his games, though) and finally came back for Avernum 4 (which I enjoyed, but not as much as Exile 2).

After that I played Geneforge 3 and liked it a lot (story- and gameplay-wise). I've played every game since and while I thoroughly (some more, some less) enjoy them, they all fail to reach the quality of Exile 2's intricate storyline (GF 5 only slightly imho).

 

But whatever Jeff's got up his sleeve: I'm pretty sure I'll like it

[Sss-Chah]

i still need to play a5. maybe i'll get around to that sometime before a6 comes out.

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Sss-Chah

i still need to play a5. maybe i'll get around to that sometime before a6 comes out.

Its 1 weekend-2 months play depending how often and long per day plays.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Originally Posted By: Locmaar

Aldous,

I think you have a very valid point there. One of my favourites is Exile 2 for the reasons you mentioned.

After Nethergate I quit playing Jeff's games for a while (nothing to do with his games, though) and finally came back for Avernum 4 (which I enjoyed, but not as much as Exile 2).
After that I played Geneforge 3 and liked it a lot (story- and gameplay-wise). I've played every game since and while I thoroughly (some more, some less) enjoy them, they all fail to reach the quality of Exile 2's intricate storyline (GF 5 only slightly imho).

But whatever Jeff's got up his sleeve: I'm pretty sure I'll like it

I'm with this guy. No matter how good these new games are, I'm still kind of a softy for the older games that brought alot of us here in the first place! I do enjoy the new games alot and play them for hours. But there's just something about the older games that just makes some like me slightly nostalgic (sp?).

I'll enjoy any game Jeff comes out with.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

I think that also has to do with the memorability of the characters. In the original trilogy, you meet people like Erika, Solberg or even Tor frequently and grow to like them in a special way; and it's similar with the surroundings and environments. In the second trilogy, you have nothing to cling on to, nothing to build a relationship with (was that English..?). Who cares about Dorikas? Or the new caves of A5? Even Solberg is not himself. Where's the love?

 

(OK, I should stop posting in this thread. I just keep repeating myself.)

 

Edit: Hey, 500 posts! Congrats, Rent! Thanks, Rent, very kind of you. I know, Rent! You deserve it! Wanna grab a beer or somethin? Sure, Rent, I'd love that! *sigh* Rent, you're the best. *grabs Rent's arm and exits*

[Earth]

We met Rentar at A2, battled against Rentar 1st time at A3 and killed Rentar most likely permanently at A4.

[Sss-Chah]

dorikas as the next emperor would make an interesting storyline, but like i said, i already assassinated emperor hawthorne.

[Vent]

I see there have been multiple occurrences of small discussions about some points. I'd like add my vote for them:

• Two scales approach: Totally agree that it's the only way to setup epic. One scale fails in pathetic regions that are quite small and or in too large area empty and boring to explore and that fail to setup a feeling of wide regions. That said the large scale I seen in A1 needs improvements:
  • The detailed scale should not be limited to only caves and towns. This could be used for a wood part, some plain and ruins, a water/earth mixed area, just a cemetery, and so on.
  • No more systematic random encounters, some random where an encounter happen can be cool but not systematic or perhaps just very rare random fights and with strong themes highly designed.
  • Large scale need a "fog of war" management too. This can only help to allow more tuned design and implement better a feeling of immensity in the large scale.
  • More stuff density in the large scale area, with better density of small events, people to talk with, texts comments, and so on.
• Graphics: I agree that when compared to A1 there's an improvement in A5. But that game really need a wide remake of the graphic styles:
  • It's NOT about having ton of new graphics at each game.
  • It's NOT to have hyper detailed and realistic graphics.
  • But it's to change the style of the graphics. Really the current one is almost ugly but ok you can get used to it.
  • As a suggestion it would be for a style like in Eschalon or like the DS remake of FF4.
• Movement controls: In A5 the movement controls copy system used by real time game with continuous movements and the result is awful with a full turn based non continuous game. It's not only ugly but also tedious to use at any time. When you explore a new area it just don't match a careful exploration. When you go through an area already explored it's slow and makes the area like just boring successive clicks. A1 system is much better for movement controls but for almost anything else I would keep A5 choices. That could be done by having arrow cursors that change into something else for talking, searching. And left click should be used for movements and right click for other stuff.
• Rest system/organization: I don't think I ever seen a good rest system and neither A1 nor A5 give a counter example of this. But I have seen, rarely, a good organization of rest. One example is from a game I didn't like much but it had a good rest organization, Gothic 3:
  • Its system is based on static places where you can rest except that they are better spread through the various area than do A5.
  • Also food is an important contribution by having food that restore percentage. A5 make the mistake to restore of constant values making food restore less and less interesting.
  • In A5 there's also the problem of Mana restore, food should probably restore some too.
  • And finally in Gothic 3 the inventory is unlimited with no constraint, that's important for collecting food for some restore.
• Training: I prefer the 8 points of A1 but I prefer the A5 system with more freedom.
• Inventory: A5 simple but original approach to use weight linked to strength only for items worn is a brilliant idea that should be keep. There's still a problem with throwing weapons. Now I wonder if such system wouldn't be even better with unlimited inventory and maximize stacking, yes even weapons similar stack, and so on. Eventually it could have three unlimited sections. One for scrolls, potions, crystals, wands. One for weapons, armors. One for misc.
• Random encounter: Random encounters are always boring, and no the two scale approach doesn't require random encounters. So the A5 approach is much better for me but should be setup with a two scales system.

[Vent]

Originally Posted By: Evnissyen

Vrek & Rent:
As Nalyd already explained, returning to the optional fight-mode system would necessitate returning to the clomp-clomp-clomp system which I've found utterly tedious, not to mention slow. In A3 you need to clomp-clomp-clomp across the entire town map of Fort Emergence, through several doors, down several hallways and through yet another door to meet the merchant or the trainer. Then you have to type T and then A (in the case of the merchant). Much easier if you just point to that spot on the map and watch your characters zoom there, right? And then when you get there just click on the merchant.

No no no, sorry to insist but there's a misunderstanding there. The point isn't to take A1 system design and use it in A6. That makes no sense, A5 shows ton of improvements that shouldn't be give up.

A keyboard game is certainly not to appeal people and should be only an option, so the mouse system is important and A1 had plenty bad design choices.

A5 good things to be kept:

• Search somewhere is just one click on an element that can be search.
• Talk with something is just one click on an element that can be talk with.

A5 good things that could be kept or improved:

• Go close to a panel/stuff to read is enough and shows the text in the log. But for this point I feel that a right click option allowing to read without to go near would be nice. (I'll discuss the right click bellow)
• Open a door or interactive element with just one click on the door or interactive element, this is a good A5 design choice. But I agree that for doors moving into it to open it is a better option.

A5 bad things that need an improvement:

• Movements controls are ugly. Game using such system have continuous movements and relatively slow walking. In A5 the result is ugly. In A5 when you explore for first time an area it's just tedious complicate controls. It doesn't match at all a careful exploration of an area with a care to any elements. That system also requires very fast a constant use of the automap that makes area just symbolic.

For me the cursor movement arrows and screen centered on character is unbeatable:

• For exploring with care a new area it brings only a plus.
• For allowing not use the auto map but with few rare check you can concentrate much better on details and exploring.
• For going fast through an area already explored, I'm much faster, I quickly learn the path and keeping mouse button pressed and very fast movements is much more sample and quick than constant switch from auto map and game view.

But take like a whole a system like in A1 is quite weird and I agree that the series should not come back to it.

So the point would be to have a mix of the best of the two systems. This brings the question is user of mouses with a single button really need to be supported? Apple started mouse with two buttons before the system know handle right click, it was for preparing the coming of OSX. Also to continue support single button mouses command click is still supported to be used instead of a right click.

Really it's time that Avernum series go further and starts support right click, and to be nice with old users, support command click to mimic a right click. All mouse have a small software allowing simple programing of their buttons so at worst the user will program right click to "command click" if the system doesn't manage right clicks.

With a two buttons mouse support the interface can be improved a lot, and a merge of the best from A1 and A5 can be done quite easily. In short, and to repeat myself:

• Centered screen and cursor arrows for movements with an optional keyboard support. On this base left click moves the party.
• Right click is used for speak with someone, read something, look at something, search something. Right click should not involve movements to avoid wrong click involving not wished movements (that happen many time in A5).
• Go close to a panel/stuff to read is enough and shows the text in the log. It's an alternate option to the right click to read.
• Opening doors like in A1 is better than move close to door and open it with a second aimed click. Move into a door to open it should be at least an option.
• Interacting with elements could behave like door opening in A1 but I feel it a bit different and move into an interactive element should not activate it but a right click should be required. Plus possibly a game option allowing to move into an interactive element to interact with it.
• If possible an option could allow a second control system more like in A5.

Originally Posted By: Evnissyen

Also... to expand on what Madrigan said, if A6 returned to the old system then I think the only people who would buy it would be those who feel nostalgic for Nethergate-A3. Not a good marketing strategy, as somebody pointed out not too long ago... I don't remember who.

That's quickly said, you are quoting only a few players of the new games. You know nothing of those that stop play the series and those that only tried the demo and gave up. The current system involving fast non continuous movements is totally ugly and I bet it was enough for some users to give up the demo. Well I suppose the graphics style made many people give up before but that's another point.

Note: It's not a double post, but a second post made much time after the previous and merging would make no sense.

EDIT: Few correction to add stuff from few more reading in the thread about the same topic.

[Slawbug]

Vent, I know this thread is still active, but you are replying to posts people made five MONTHS ago!

 

In the end, everybody has different opinions on what they like and don't like about the user interface, so it's a bit strange to say your opinion should matter more than somebody else's. Given the number of times you are calling everything about the game "ugly", it seems that you may not be the target audience for the games, anyway...

[jlsgaladriel]

Originally Posted By: vent

I'd like add my vote for them:

Originally Posted By: slarty

it's a bit strange to say your opinion should matter more than somebody else's....it seems that you may not be the target audience for the games, anyway...

Slarty: it's not like you to overreact like that, and to push someone away from spiderweb games on spiderweb's own game board...

I honestly don't think vent was trying to impose his views; I think he was trying to add his thoughts to a discussion that for him is new.

Vent: Slarty's reacting the way he is in part because you're resurrecting an old thread, and it feels like you're beating a dead horse (s'acharner à rien). It's bad forum style to resurrect a long-dead topic.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

This thread was far from dead, and even long-forgotten threads may be posted in if you really have something to add and there's no real point in making a new thread. This "no necromancy"-thing has turned from a necessity to a weird little culture of its own...

I think Vent's posts could've used a wider angle, but the response was way off.

 

Back to topic:

Most of what Vent said I've already expressed my opinion on, but he did add some interesting points. I absolutely concur with you on the food/resting/encounter part. I think resting and eating should be an integral part of the game and actually make some sense. Either food should restore a certain percentage of your HP and mana, or let you rest. Actually, I wouldn't mind resting being absolutely necessary for you to move on, as you couldn't possibly adventure on killing demons after weeks without sleep.

 

I don't think fantasy has to restrain itself from a certain realism of its own.

[Vent]

Originally Posted By: Backwords

In the end, everybody has different opinions on what they like and don't like about the user interface, so it's a bit strange to say your opinion should matter more than somebody else's...

Do you realize you can make this answer to the first and to any post of this thread? Your position lack a bit of logic. Or perhaps you should suggest to admin to delete this topic?

jlsgaladriel: Lol ok, thanks to try temper things but... So you suggest me to open a new thread and ignore this one, that's will be the good forum style? Seriously I know I'm late and I know it's tedious to see someone resurrecting an old debate but well, I don't see where's the alternative. Yes I know your suggestion is that I close my mouth, I know it's what you suggest. I don't want and don't see why someone need take care to my late answers, as standard, don't read if you don't care, that's so simple, don't you agree on this?

Backwords:
About "ugly" I used it for:

• The graphic style, who find them cute? You? Common be serious... and not a.. sucker.
• The way that movements are managed in A5. Look one second at the result. It's just the full copy of an old system coming from a real time game with timed continuous movements. Paste that to turn based and non continuous movement and you get a quite ugly result.

About my opinion being more important, well I wrote it in the first line, it's mainly my vote, don't look for more. That said there's one point I think there's more:

• For the discussion around A1 controls vs A5 controls it turned to a strict opposition of the two people with people don't understand much the other side. I put the highlight on an intermediate way take the best of the two systems.

Well in fact it's for the whole discussion of the old system vs new one and you can even take Exile in it. Yes it's a matter of preference but also a lot because people look at it as a whole. Beside some opposite preferences, it's a lot because the alternate roads trying to take the best of each isn't look at enough closely. Yep just my point of view and you could not share it.

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

Yes I know your suggestion is that I close my mouth, I know it's what you suggest. I don't want and don't see why someone need take care to my late answers, as standard, don't read if you don't care, that's so simple, don't you agree on this?

Ça m'est égal, vent.

If you attack those who are trying to help, you'll soon find only hostile responses. Maybe that's why Slarty spoke as he did?

Quote:

The graphic style, who find them cute? You? Common be serious

Yes, spiderweb games have outdated graphics. Everyone who plays them cares more about the gameplay than about the graphics. No, not everyone thinks they're ugly: actually, some of them are quite cute, like the cryoa breath attack in geneforge when the critter is facing forwards.

As long as we're voting, I hope Jeff continues to concentrate his efforts on good gaming, rather waste too much time on difficult eye candy.

As to movement, I actually like the A5 system just fine, although I found the initial implementation in A4 tedious. I don't hate the old two-tiered system, though. What's important to me is that the keyboard options be maintained as much as possible: while I understand that players of Fable-style games expect mouse-driven movement, I'm guessing a fair share of Jeff's user-base, like me, also appreciates keyboard options.

[Callie]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

No, not everyone thinks they're ugly: actually, some of them are quite cute, like the cryoa breath attack in geneforge when the critter is facing forwards.

Not to mention those cute little GIFTSs.

[Vent]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

Ça m'est égal, vent.

Fine.

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

If you attack those who are trying to help, you'll soon find only hostile responses. Maybe that's why Slarty spoke as he did?

Let "Slarty" spoke as he wants, that will be fine.

For the Graphics. For sure graphics isn't the more important for the final gameplay of a game. For the first feeling about the game the important moment where a player throw a game in the trash or not, graphics play their role. Myself I can admit that the more important is how clear are the graphics. Also I don't find graphics so ugly but I feel something wrong in their style. Ok it's not that important but I don't feel it that minor too.

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

while I understand that players of Fable-style games expect mouse-driven movement...

LOL, I can appreciate the little manipulation, perhaps for a with more fairness it would be better to quote games like Fallout 1&2 or Baldur's Gate series?

I don't understand your point of view about controls, you seem like keyboard controls but I wonder if they are any good for movements in A5.

[Alorael at Large]

They worked fine for me.

 

—Alorael, who noticed that they were slightly more sluggish than in the original trilogy. He didn't mind terribly.

[Acky]

The controls are quite smooth on my part. I've never really felt that they are inferior to A1's controls.

 

The Last Archon

[Vent]

Originally Posted By: Alorael's Sniper Rifle Case

The controls are quite smooth on my part. I've never really felt that they are inferior to A1's controls.

A5 controls are better than A1 controls that's quite obvious, I can't deny that.

There's plenty thing you can do in one click when it's much more painful in A1, for example, long range shot, talk with someone, searching something, opening a container, interact with an object, a few quickspell (more would be better including a quickslot bar but A1 has nothing), a few quickpotions (even if I wonder why I'm not allowed to use them for more spells). Also reading a text only requires you go near to it when A1 require that and two clicks.

I'd be curious that anybody explain me that those controls are better in A1 than in A5.

But for opening the door, most of the time it's to go through it and then A1 that requires just a movement that you'll do next step make it quite cool. For closing door, I wonder if this is possible in A5, in A1 it's ok.

For movements in A1 you don't need bother with the automap and that let you concentrate on the exploration, also A1 movement controls fit well a careful walking exploration, you just don't have that in A5 except if you start using keyboard.

In A5 the double manipulation between automap and game area involve ton of mouse movements. In A5 how many time you click somewhere for movements and juts get a painful message it's too far? How many time in A5 you click somewhere for movements and you party don't reach the point, just because they bump into someone? How many time in A5 you click somewhere to only get the description of the point close to your click? in A5 movements are so fast so I wonder why have them anyway. When you set auto center of the screen it's highly unpleasant visually and doesn't allow you prepare the next movement click. And when you disable this option you multiply manipulation between automap and game area and then don't use anymore the game view but just concentrate on the automap during movements that aren't first exploration. And that let you no chance to find a new detail at a second walking through a part.

So well it's fine if you like A5 movement controls, but really you are weird, it's much more than just a matter of preferences.

EDIT: But with a same base and many improvements it's quite possible that A5 movement controls won't be so bad. Also I'm not sure that A1 movement controls can fit well A5. I'm playing both and feel A1 much more hudge in term of area but I suspect it's just psychological and coming from the two scales approach, it's possible that despite the A5 area is much more small it involves a much bigger size in term of squares and then wouldn't work with A1 controls.

[Sss-Chah]

avernum 4 (and i'm assuming a5 as well, but i haven't played it yet) has two button mouse support. try right-clicking on somebody.

[Dark.Fenix]

an idea about the quest jornal.

when u have to colect objects to complete a quest they should apear in it box, like

3/6 chitrach slain.

1/1 erratic sentinel slain.

15/20 sheet of paper.

 

or at least something that says it is completed.w

[Alorael at Large]

Say it with me: "Avernum is not WoW."

 

—Alorael, who is pretty sure your inventory already does a perfectly good job of keeping track of how many of your various items you have. If you need paper, hit "i" and look through your characters' supplies to see what you have. You rarely have to kill a number of critters without being given something to collect. And killing 1/1... no. Just no. You can count to one yourself.

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Dark.Fenix

an idea about the quest jornal.
when u have to colect objects to complete a quest they should apear in it box, like
3/6 chitrach slain.
1/1 erratic sentinel slain.
15/20 sheet of paper.

or at least something that says it is completed.w

Orig. triogy might been something like that.

Alorael: If quest is slay 20 of some monster it would be nice to know how many has killed so far especially if those monsters aren't at same area.

[Acky]

Couldn't you just keep count?

 

The Last Archon

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

Say it with me: "Avernum is not WoW."

No!! I've been playing all this time just so I can get my 1337 mount! Aaaaargh!

....Next thing I know, you'll tell me the general forum isn't oldschool Barrens chat.

[Dark.Fenix]

lol guys

 

i just left an idea to turn questing more easy than have a side paper note.

 

some inicial quests like investigating places only leave a text box at that given time that is closed imidiatly by most beginers and can be stuck runing around trying to complete it.

u can look at the special items inventory for some more info on items ur colecting but if it can be simplified then i dont see no point in not to.

 

that is just an idea, nothing more nothing less

 

edit: PS: yes i used a lot of paper during exile games. im gratfull for something that actualy says the quests u have