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Thoughts about Avernum 6?


Xaiya

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I also appreciate a good, forceful narrative. That's just me. The open-world thing was exciting when I was a kid, but it gets old, I think, and requires constant new invention, or else you're left with mostly hack & loot.

 

If somebody can create a game that's like that... that constantly surprises you with interesting inventions when you just wander around a huge map like in the old days... then that would be cool, too. It just doesn't seem to be the direction Jeff is heading in.

 

EDIT: I would expect, at any rate, that independent game developers grow up just like the rest of us, and start adopting different interests and looking for different reasons to keep making games.

 

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I miss the good old spells of the Exile days, how nice it would be to become completely invincible and level towns with less then 10 spell casts.

 

And if we add an outside to A6 it will just feel like Geneforge. A3 separated itself from the rest so well because you really felt like you were trampling across the world and continents. If this was brought back it just wouldn't feel right, it would desensitize people to the joy that A3 gave,

 

I also think the old Avernum system should be brought back with improved graphics, sometimes I find it hard to distinguish Geneforge and Avernum 4-5, from each other.

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Well, though I played every single spiderweb game several times since avernum 1, including every BoA scenario, Nethergate both sides, each geneforge with every faction, and browsed and read many threads here, it's the first time I post in the boards, because this is important for me (and it will be long, mind you):

 

though I love and cherrish every Spider game, I think that if we'd make a poll, the favorite ever since Avernum 1 including would be Avernum 2. I personally played it so many times, and when I ask myself why, the answer is simple: STORY, STORY, STORY.

 

Every quest in that game, small to large, was somehow advancing the and cross-connecting to the plot - the war with the empire. There was one supreme underlying yet unwritten mission: save avernum and its citizens from physical and cultural extinction by the hands of a brutal, vengeance driven and furious, yet calculated, organized, stubborn and relentless Force Major. darn, the story was so compelling and realistic Jeff didn't have to declare it "officially" as a quest!

 

there were 3 super-quests, completing each one advanced you to your final goal: slaying Garzahd would eliminate the empire army's master mind; helping the Vahnatai would prevent a powerful enemy from fighting against your country and align them with you; and destroying the empire portal would fatally hurt the empire from utilizing its frightening number advantage. You had to eliminate the enemy's main strategist AND badly hurt its military infrastructure AND use heavy diplomacy in order to survive.

Add to it that you fought a faceless enemy (you didn't meet "regular" empire citizens), and that avernum didn't "win", just barely repelled the enemy, and the feeling was genuine. And of course, every side quest that I remember was geared towards the mission: getting the colored passes, eliminate enemy garrisons located strategically and fearsome regional commanders, getting rentar ihrno to help you, reaching hidden and vital allies like erika, solberg and thompson...even the cool gangsters of the abyss were frightened.

 

It wasn't the outdoors, it wasn't the battle system, and it wasn't the graphics. on the contrary, it was the lack of time, the urgency you felt - nobody is asking you to eliminate an infestation of mindless chitrachs, no town has a job board, and no merchant is worrying about a blocked bridge that hurts the business; every npc, from savage nephilim to mighty Erika redmark, was occupied with one thing: keep the empire from our lands.

 

The civilization threatening aspect is missing in all other games (the less so in nethergate) - in A1, you get the feeling that Avernum can cope with Grah-hoth and the other 2 quests with or without you; in A3 you know Avernum continues daily life underneath valorim, and so is the empire outside it; BoA is obvious; in A4 rentar seems almost like a crazy old hag, that drops some halloween shades in some cities and will bury herself even if you'd just stand and do nothing; and Dorikas is just not a threat enough to be the pinnacle of the game, especially since it is depicted as a political struggle between some big shots that doesn't interfere or affect the regular empire or avernum citizen. And geneforge (so far) - excellent and original story, but the shaper council still sits in its ivory tower and will crush the rebellion with hords of guardians, agents and creations with a snap of a finger, if they really thought it's threatening.

 

I admire Jeff for his story-telling abilities, I wish I could reach half of that, and I think he chose very wisely when the stories were the main bonanza - and again, to ne, Avernum 2 is still the greatest game I ever played.

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err.. 19inch... : ) )

 

Windowed mode very interesting idea...

Changing of resolution too..

 

But playing zone is too small anyway.

Less then 1/2 of full window.

Party stats, inventory and game log are always on screen.

And than i switch map on too, there are none of space to game at all. Just compare two screens of exile1-3 and avernum 5 or geneforge 3. Feel difference : )

 

Only new engine, only

 

====

PS I just have see GENEFORGE FIVE - that is ideal window of game!!

 

I hope that reissues of exiles will be on the same engine : ) ) )

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CRT

(pardon - GeneForge five interface : )

 

anyway i hope engine will be improved, or just interface of playing window and it's resolution. also it's will be good to keep old sound effects : )

 

i know, time and progress always go forward, so interface could not be exactly the same, but more comfortable and playable.

 

But i repeat - gf5 has excellent interface and playing window which takes whole monitor area.

 

If it can be better?

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Originally Posted By: Earth2025
Originally Posted By: Ethermind

But i repeat - gf5 has excellent interface and playing window which takes whole monitor area.

If it can be better?


Of course it can when graphic cards get better and comps get faster etc.


I do not mean grafix effects etc (though I have imagine Avernum story on Warcraft 3 engine : ) ) ) ) )

I mean utility, usefulness and comfortability of interface.
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  • 3 weeks later...

just a thought...

 

1 thing i miss from the exile games in avernum is the wait ability. u could tell ur melee chars to w8 and get them buff by the casters and then get back to the buffed melee and attack in that turn.

 

i know that would mess the ability to improve ur reaction time in combat but it would be nice that ur 2º in line archer could throw a shieldbreaking arrow and ur 1ºin line melee could do a aimed blow after. the quick action doesnt afect missiles so no use geting it on an archer so the melee will always act first.

 

just an idea...

 

edit:Exile2 rocks, story,action,spells...everything tongue

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another thing that i would also like to see in A6 is tha possibility to know what buffs/debuffs a creature have when inspected because it would turn the batle more fast sence u dont have to scroll every inch of the fight text to keep updated and would be more easy to know when a certain debuff was already gone.

 

like when i check to see the creature life it would also say:

Troll chieftan 234/456 blessed weakened hasted poison/acid

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm sorry if I seem to repeat what may have been said earlier, but I don't have the time to read all 18 pages of things here.

I believe Solberg's gonna be dead for this game. frown In A5, at the end of the quest of his messed up machines when you don't kill that guy, Solberg says that he's gonna make preparations. I take this to mean that he's gonna make preparations to die.

Now what if he does stop using magic to prolong his life but it's too late. Instead of dying, he becomes Undead! Not like normal undead, but more of a Lich. He reverts back to his normal state of mind, but is shunned by the Avernites for being undead.

Also, having A6 set on the surface would work if the distance was put into view. Having cities put too close together is kinda irritating.

I have no other problems with A5 as it is now. If A6 had basically the same of everything (except the storyline and setting) as A5, it will also be a great game.

I'm sorry if I don't know much about A5. I just got the game a few days ago and I'm only up to the Vahnatai Lands.

But about the ending of A5, I believe the one the one to be 'official' is where Dorikas gets killed. But what do I know? I'm just like the rest of you...making guesses. It's all up to Jeff as to what he uses or doesn't use. cool

 

Sorry...I should've looked at the date before posting. I didn't mean to resurrect a dead topic.

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Originally Posted By: Earth2025
Originally Posted By: BloodMoon
Or X managed to complete the anvil spell while he was in surface then accidentally cast it then the Surface suffer from Anvil Raining tongue


That would give current Emperor/Empress reason to try invade Avernum.

...and Prazac might die in A6, so the new monarch might not be so forgiving.
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Originally Posted By: Archon
Dorikas might.


the king of avernum is murdered and hostilitys comence between avernum and empire, its up to ur brave party of expert soldiers to find out the trueth.
was the sly vahnatai? the empire? some dark conspiracy on the heart of the royal family?
NO!!!! it was the LICH KING, dorikas reborn as lich and all shall face his WRATH laugh

ok, i have goten back to wow tongue , but there are so many possible storys that could resolve with the facts of A5 that i cant w8 to know...
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Liches are scary, powerful undead. That's about all that's established in Exile/Avernum canon. Jeff can make anyone a lich if he feels like it, or he can create a new, scary kind of undead.

 

If Dorikas did it, whatever it happens to be in A6, I'll be only slightly less unhappy than if Rentar did it again.

 

—Alorael, who pauses to reflect that A1 is one of a very few games where there really isn't a crisis that your party has to solve. Okay, Grah-Hoth is a crisis, but you don't know about him until very late in the game and you can get two endings while ignoring him. The surface can wait. So can Hawthorne. The nepihls and sliths seem to be fought to a standstill without you to tip the balance. Life is okay. Wouldn't it be interesting if new Empire/Avernum hostility restored life to mediocre and your party gets to make things peachy again in A6?

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I liked Avernum 5 a lot better than I liked Avernum 4, mostly because the storyline felt a lot more fluid.

 

I was extremely disappointed by the ending (as an empire loyalist), though - there have been so many choices along the way: Helping or dooming Muck, strengthening the dragon or weakening it, or even killing it, deciding what to do with the Anama...

 

... and not one of the choices made along the way mattered in the end. What a waste of storyline potential!

 

 

All in all, I always felt that Avernum was weaker than the Exile-series. My favourite Spiderweb game will remain Exile III, for the sheer amount of tactical fun in the monster factories. Some battles in Avernum 5 were fun (like the one against the golems), but it felt a lot "toned down" from what I was expecting.

 

I also want the old character system back. I always felt that there was barely enough skillpoints to raise a few skills per character only, artificially limiting them greatly into specializing either on weapon, priest or mage spells and pretty much ignoring all the other abilities.

 

I would love to see more skillpoints per level, and a lot more skills. And six characters, where there's actually some tactical option to fill the last two slots with, apart from being forced to pick a "mage", a "healer", a "tank" and a "rogue" if you want to see all of the game. I would have loved to have a priest/fighter along and a slith halberdier, just because it would have given me more tactical options for the larger battles. Yeah, they haven't been needed, but it would have made the large battles a lot more fun for me.

 

 

I love creating and developing characters. With the current system, I feel way too limited.

 

 

 

And while I can live with the graphics and gameplay just fine, one thing that always struck me as horribly outdated in any Spiderweb game was the Journal.

 

Is it really too much to ask for to play a game without having to manually take notes anymore?

 

 

Avernum 6 would make me happy, no matter how the storylines goes, if either or all of the following were included:

 

* Five or six characters instead of four!

* More skills. Dualwield! Assassination! Alchemy! I miss you!

* More meaningful choices that change the storyline in the long run. (Not only "Join the Darkside Loyalists / Don't join the Darkside Loyalists")

* Update the Questjournal system so that it keeps track of the current steps of the quests! (Vases found: 0/3)

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I agree with quite a bit of what you said, but hybrid character builds are perfectly viable as long as you make careful decisions about what skills you do and don't need. I used a fighter/thief, two archer/priests and an archer/mage/priest on Torment difficulty in A5 and did just fine.

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