So... Is spidweb dying?

[Trenton.]

It's been a month, maybe two since I last posted here, and with that time only 24 new topics were made. I remember the days about four or five years ago when we posted about 5-10 topics a DAY. What happened? Surely ALL of us are not drifting away. And there must be PLENTY more to talk about. Is Good old Spidweb really dying out? Or will it pick right back up again at the next game release?

[Lilith]

Nah. It'll pick up a bit once Avadon 2 comes out, which won't be long now.

[Xaiya]

I've seen worse activity here. These forums will survive for quite a while, barring some huge event like the apocalypse or something.

[Rya.Reisender]

There's quite a huge fanbase by now, which increased again with the Humble Bundle, it's just that the majority doesn't feel the need to post on forums when they currently don't play. Many are waiting for Avalon 2 and I think even more are waiting for the remakes of Avernum 2 and 3 (from my personal feeling Avernum - Escape From The Pit is the most popular game).

[Randomizer]

Back when Arancaytar posted the monthly posting stats for the board there was a significant decline in August with the total number of posts. Posting would significantly rise with the release of a new game and the later Windows release.

[Actaeon]

Trenton, I thought by now you would have understood the concept of quality over quantity.

[Student of Trinity]

Most of the new topics these days use the Nuclose feature. Only cool people can see them.

 

Sorry about that.

[Triumph]

If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, then the forum was cooked a long time ago.

[Death Knight]

Spiderweb can't really die. Even after we are all gone, it will still keep moving. Like the energizer bunny but with more creativity and better characterization.

[Cairo Jim]

If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, then the forum was cooked a long time ago.

 

I never would of thought I'd see someone do this.

 

Edit: I had an epiphany of what the original quote could actually mean. I've mostly forgot what it was, but I'm pretty sure Schrodinger's cat made it in there somewhere.

[Valdain the King]

The only way to destroy spiderweb is to get jeff to stop blogging for 2 consecutive years. He obviously is back at it so you can't damage the pylons until he is off. Even I know that and I never went to harvard.

[Thynar]

Hopefully not!

I think we'll see more activity closer to Avadon 2's release

[Tyranicus]

What is dead can never die but rises again, harder and stronger.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

[adc.]

Is it? Then I should start working on my new Balm of Life formula, with extra added calcium for stronger bones.

 

But you'll be responsible for the Raise the Dead, minimum level 3

-----

-Nightwatcher

[Alorael at Large]

That is not dead which can eternal lie,

And with strange aeons even death may die.

 

—Alorael, who still won't hold his breath waiting for it. Among other reasons, because he can die from hypoxia.

[Kelandon]

I bet we do have unusually low activity now due to the unusually long time between releases right now.

 

But I also suspect that something else is going on. Back in early '04, during a comparable lull between games, I don't think that there was as much of a lull in forum activity. At the time, we hardly discussed the games or Spiderweb at all, really, so it didn't make much difference whether Spidweb had released anything or not. These days, I think it makes a bigger difference.

[Enraged Slith]

The forums died when misc died.

[Goldengirl]

I've definitely seen the fora a lot more dead than this. Between people in the midst of new school years and the dead time between game releases a lull like this is inevitable. I can't see Spiderweb going gentle into that good night.

[Questionably Legal]

The forums died when misc died.

I initially read that as "when music died", and thought, well, they must have been undead for the entirety of their existence then.

[Cairo Jim]

The forums died when misc died.

 

Funny that. I was gonna say say tjhe same thing.

[Upon Mars.]

Why is this myth of Spiderweb forums "dying out" popping up regularly?

[Callie]

Why is this myth of Spiderweb forums "dying out" popping up regularly?

Many cultures have odd eschatological musings; why should Spiderweb be any different?

[Dikiyoba]

Probably because SW is fairly inactive on a regular basis now.

 

Dikiyoba is doing Dikiyoba's best to keep Spiderweb alive and active, one (hopefully quality) post at a time.

[Alorael at Large]

We can have 13 people post in a single day on the fact that Spiderweb is dying.

 

 

—Alorael, who thinks everyone lurking, waiting to pounce with bon mots and cutting witticisms, ideally all in lowercase. Someone just has to take the first step and the first post.

[Randomizer]

Friends, Spiderwebbers, countrymen, lend me your ears;

I come to bury the forum, not to praise it.

The evil that posters do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones.

 

Plagiarize from the best, Shakespear.

[Triumph]

This forum is sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

Also, Randomizer is an honorable man.

 

That's why I'm sending all these tennis balls...

[Actaeon]

Also, Randomizer is an honorable man.

 

So are they all, honorable men.

[Triumph]

If the forum does die, the fault is not in our stars but in ourselves, that we are underlings.

[Randomizer]

To post, or not to post, that is the question:

Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer

The Slings and Arrows of outrageous postings,

Or to take Arms against a Sea of Spam,

And by opposing end them: to ban, to edit

No more; and by an edit, to say we ban

The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural puns

That members are heir to? 'Tis a consummation

Devoutly to be wished. To ban, to edit,

To edit, perchance to delete; Aye, there's the rub,

For in that edit of post, what deletes may come,

When we have shuffled off this moderation,

Must give us pause. There's the respect

That makes Calamity of so long membership:

For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of posters,

The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,

The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,

The insolence of Office, and the Spurns

That patient merit of the unworthy takes,

When he himself might his Quietus make

With a sniper rifle? Who would Fardels bear,

To grunt and sweat under a weary life,

But that the dread of something after posting,

The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn

No Traveller returns, Puzzles the will,

And makes us rather bear those ills we have,

Than fly to others that we know not of.

Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,

And thus the Native hue of Resolution

Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,

And enterprises of great pitch and moment,

With this regard their Currents turn awry,

And lose the name of Action. Soft you now,

The fair Alorael? Drunkard, in thy Skribbane

Be all my PDNs remembered.

[Actaeon]

Do you ever think some of us might have too much time on our hands?

[Triumph]

Well, the implicit message of the OP (the subtext! LOL) seemed to be a call for more posts. And we have answered! From this day to the ending of the world, we in it shall be remember'd, we few, we happy few, we band of brothers, for he today that posts with me shall be my brother, be he ne'er so spammy. Once more unto the breach, dear friends!

[adc.]

To post, or not to post, that is the question:

 

`Trenton!' said I, `thing of evil! - Trenton still, if man or pony!

By that Heaven that bends above us - by that God we both adore -

Tell this Zwei with sadness laden if, within the distant Aidenn,

It shall aid a game developer whom the spiders named Jeff -

Aid a rare and blessed developer, whom the spiders named Jeff?'

Quoth the Trenton, `Forevermore.'

-------

-Nightwatcher

[Randomizer]

Do you ever think some of us might have too much time on our hands?

Me thinks the poster doth protest too much.

[Edgwyn]

I regret that I only have one post to give for my Spiderweb

[Kelandon]

I regret that I only have one post to give for my Spiderweb

This was what I thought, too. But see! I just proved myself wrong. Again!

[Actaeon]

Me thinks the poster doth protest too much.

 

I have a suspicion which your favorite Shakespearian play is.

 

I will try the last. Before myself, I throw my warlike post. Lay on, Randomizer, And damn'd be him that first cries, "Hold, enough!"

[Triumph]

Is that a dagger that I see before me?

 

(A clunky stone dagger, too, no doubt!)

 

(Or just a trowel?)

[Kelandon]

Takes one to know one, you unsellable trowel.

[Edgwyn]

Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my denizens,

That he which hath no stomach to this topic,

Let him depart; his passport shall be made

And crowns for convoy put into his purse:

We would not post in that man's company

That fears his fellowship to post with us.

This day is called the feast of Crispian:

He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,

Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,

And rouse him at the name of Crispian.

He that shall live this day, and see old age,

Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,

And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'

Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.

And say 'These posts I had on Crispin's day.'

[Triumph]

Takes one to know one, you unsellable trowel.

 

Yeah, well, it takes one to be one.

[BMA]

At least it's not just the mods who're talking to each other all the time.

 

A live dissection of the Geneforge, byte by byte, to make a BoA-like editor for creating new Geneforge scenarios doesn't seem to have sparked a lot of interest. If that isn't forum-death, then I don't know what is. Well, I could be biased, but Blades-of-Geneforge and Geneforge-MMORPG used to be hot topics around here some time ago. Maybe the players have moved on to Avadon and the Avernum remakes, but if the numbers are low even over there, then well *shrug*.

[Dikiyoba]

At least it's not just the mods who're talking to each other all the time.

Yeah, that is a problem around here.

 

A live dissection of the Geneforge, byte by byte, to make a BoA-like editor for creating new Geneforge scenarios doesn't seem to have sparked a lot of interest. If that isn't forum-death, then I don't know what is. Well, I could be biased, but Blades-of-Geneforge and Geneforge-MMORPG used to be hot topics around here some time ago. Maybe the players have moved on to Avadon and the Avernum remakes, but if the numbers are low even over there, then well *shrug*.

That has less to do with the forums dying and more to do with the fact that a fan-made BoG is a terrible idea: too much time and effort spent for far too little payoff.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Student of Trinity]

BoA never really took off, and it always seemed to me that this was just because it was too much work to make a game with the more sophisticated engine. Jeff couldn't manage the work to eliminate the many bugs that didn't happen to hurt his own scenarios, and few designers were keen enough to finish a scenario. The Geneforge engine is fancier still than BoA. I think BoG would be a nightmare.

 

I saw the same pattern with Escape Velocity — the 2D space combat and trading simulator games. They came in three successively more polished editions. All of them have lots of user-made patches and modifications, like extra ships and outfits. But the big deal with EV was 'total conversions', where someone re-wrote all the graphics and planets and items, and made a whole new story line that just used the basic game engine. For the original EV, which wasn't all that far above Pong in its look and feel, there were quite a few of these. There were also quite a number made for Escape Velocity: Override, the sequel, which had more sophisticated graphics. Escape Velocity: Nova had beautiful sprites, and subtle banking and accelerating effects, weapons glows and everything. Only a handful of total conversions were ever made, and to be honest only one real one was ever finished. Its author had started it in the original Escape Velocity, kept doggedly on with it, and finally just upgraded it. Moreover most of his ideas were just lifted from a bizarre pen-and-paper RPG that he and his friends had been playing for years. So it seems that literally nobody ever just sat down with EV:N and a big idea, and pushed it through to the end. EV and EV:O were amateur games, and the bar was set at an amateur level. EV:N was professional grade, and the bar was just too high for normal folks.

 

I also know that the very thing I like about the Geneforge games would discourage me from writing a BoG scenario. Geneforge is a unique world with a unique flavor, and Jeff's story arc is a fascinating epic. I don't want to write a fanfic game, kind of like Jeff's but not as good. I'd want to make something more uniquely mine. Starting from the Geneforge system, with the Geneforge graphics, would probably just make it harder for me.

[Lilith]

I saw the same pattern with Escape Velocity — the 2D space combat and trading simulator games. They came in three successively more polished editions. All of them have lots of user-made patches and modifications, like extra ships and outfits. But the big deal with EV was 'total conversions', where someone re-wrote all the graphics and planets and items, and made a whole new story line that just used the basic game engine. For the original EV, which wasn't all that far above Pong in its look and feel, there were quite a few of these. There were also quite a number made for Escape Velocity: Override, the sequel, which had more sophisticated graphics. Escape Velocity: Nova had beautiful sprites, and subtle banking and accelerating effects, weapons glows and everything. Only a handful of total conversions were ever made, and to be honest only one real one was ever finished. Its author had started it in the original Escape Velocity, kept doggedly on with it, and finally just upgraded it. Moreover most of his ideas were just lifted from a bizarre pen-and-paper RPG that he and his friends had been playing for years. So it seems that literally nobody ever just sat down with EV:N and a big idea, and pushed it through to the end. EV and EV:O were amateur games, and the bar was set at an amateur level. EV:N was professional grade, and the bar was just too high for normal folks.

 

another thing that's probably a factor is that nowadays it's not uncommon for big-name commercial games to have their own modding tools released to the public, so the people who do have the time, expertise and motivation to finish that kind of project are off making mods for Half-Life 2 or Skyrim or something instead, where they have a much larger potential audience. look at DOTA: it started off as a Warcraft 3 mod and has now spawned an entire subgenre of games. good luck achieving that level of success with a BoA scenario

[Randomizer]

There is a difference between Jeff doing the work of developing the software and having to do it yourself where you have to figure out what Jeff or another programmer was doing.

 

Basilisk Games is going to release scenario making tools for it's Escahlon series, but it probably won't be as much as some players think they are getting. It dropped as a priority over finishing the 3rd game and starting the next series where they can make some money.

[adc.]

but Blades-of-Geneforge and Geneforge-MMORPG used to be hot topics around here some time ago. Maybe the players have moved on to Avadon and the Avernum remakes, but if the numbers are low even over there, then well *shrug*.

Those wonderful feels from two years ago...

 

To avoid teh spam:

They weren't so much hot topics as one of the more popular ones among random uninformed newbies who thought they had a unique idea,

 

That was me two years ago too

-----

-Nightwatcher

[Xaiya]

At least it's not just the mods who're talking to each other all the time.

 

A live dissection of the Geneforge, byte by byte, to make a BoA-like editor for creating new Geneforge scenarios doesn't seem to have sparked a lot of interest. If that isn't forum-death, then I don't know what is. Well, I could be biased, but Blades-of-Geneforge and Geneforge-MMORPG used to be hot topics around here some time ago. Maybe the players have moved on to Avadon and the Avernum remakes, but if the numbers are low even over there, then well *shrug*.

They weren't so much hot topics as one of the more popular ones among random uninformed newbies who thought they had a unique idea, which would be followed through a (eventually) practiced and collective no from everyone else. I'd consider that a hot topic the way I would threads from spambots during the time we had them.

Now, as interesting as a fan-made BoG is, it's clear uninformed newbies have moved on from that topic. I wouldn't cite it as evidence that the forums are dying.

[Upon Mars.]

There's a plenty going on than BoG: as stated before, Avadon comming up, Books being written, the geneforge wiki still waiting for users to take notice of it... Hell not much has changed that much really. From my perspective Spiderwebsoftwere was always like this: a calm, cosy place where people talked nostalgia...

[Triumph]

From my perspective Spiderwebsoftwere was always like this: a calm, cosy place where people talked nostalgia...

 

Exactly! Except that back in the good ol' days, we had super cool mods like Ephesos and Slarty! Now there are just boring mods like m- umm, wait...