Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Well, with a few script edits, I managed to dedicate my character for the "Kill redbeard story finish". Without learning the most powerful spells, I turned most scarabs into better spells (e.g. searing spark, radiate ice, dragonfire etc. and with unbelievable damages like 230-11200 which mostly bugs and the crit's damage is 0.) I tried to kill Redbeard and all he does is run around like a madman, terrify, and summon annoying soul jars. Then, I need to shadowstep over and over to return and return from room to room. I have to admit it... the most fun and challenging part. What's more, my teammates are too weak to distract redbeard. Maybe I'll beat him with luck someday... --------------------- -Beaten, Nightwatcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It's... kind of an irritating fight, yeah. It can often feel like you're just treading water rather than making progress, since you can only do any decent damage to him if he has 2 or fewer soul jars alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If I finish the fight within an hour I consider it a victory. By the time it's over I have almost no potions and/or scrolls left. RainbowDashRadical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'd wish I had learned cunning decoy before going to battle... *shrugs* at least I'll get lucky someday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Juan Carlo Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I screwed myself on this fight just because I was doing the "no resurrection scroll" achievement, and even though it unlocks before you get to Redbeard (so you technically could use scrolls during the redbeard fight without ruining the acheievement), I basically just sold every resurrection scroll I could find the whole game. So I had none left for the fight and had to return to a previous save and buy a bunch. This is really a fight you have to plan for well in advance as there are no shops or anything once the end game starts (which itself takes a few hours of play to get through, so if you make it to redbeard and aren't prepared you have to back track a really long ways). Kind of a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 yeah i forgot to kill that zephrynn and i'm still not up to reloading from before the endgame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd iwan Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 is there any possibility to do this fight right when returning to avadon (and without doing some more "endgame", just going to redbeard and challenge him? or is he supposed to be unkillable at this point and you only have the opportunity to kill him later in the game? 'cause, i'm trying to kill him for about an hour now and he's pretty much immune to everything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 He can be killed only at the game ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd iwan Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 well, i guess my question wasn't very precise... i suppose this IS the game ending, right? or do i have to do anything else first? i got back from Castle Vebaux, after being hunted in Beraza Deep Woods, and now try to kill redbeard with a five warrior party. Any chance to finish this fight successfully at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yes, but it is a very long fight, look for messages when it says "something in the room changes" and find the hidden switches on the north wall, they will reveal chambers with sort of monsters who you have to kill in order to damage Redbeard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 If you're able to fight him at all, then this is the fight where you can kill him. When he becomes immune to damage, you have to find two secret passages.in the room and interact with what's behind them to make him vulnerable again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Shaper Shaper Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Hints: 1. Have the Shadow Walker and the Mage in the northern secret room, and put the warrior in the southern room. 2. Have the Warrior "see" the Soul Jars. This way, the Shadow Walker and the Mage will be able to fight in both rooms without having to walk to the two separate rooms. 3. I prefer to have the Shaman fighting Red Beard as she can easily heal herself. 4. I prefer to have the PC fighting the Soul Jars, but I suppose a person can try to fight Red Beard. If you need: 1. Turn down the difficulty of the game using the Preference Screen 2. Use cheats like healmenow and rechargeme. Using these hints, I defeated Red Beard in about thirty minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ive played enough of Avadon a number of times to know that based on some of the difficult other fights in game, fighting redbeard is a good way of taking the remaining amount of sanity I have left and mailing it to jeff. Ill be the first person to say that the next game would be really cool if you are given more choices for endgame fights/ending paths that can be beaten and hopefully, if Redbeard is there, there is a chance to fight him that is at least marginally reasonable adc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Shaper Shaper Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Then again, there is a reason why Red Beard hasn't been killed yet. Had we found that he was easy to beat, I don't think that the power of Red Beard Spiderweb Software wanted to show us would be long lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Painted Lady Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I finally defeated Redbeard. God, it was long and ugly - it took 2 hours. First I turned the difficulty down. Having planned on the battle from the beginning I had hoarded haste and battle potions, so I had lots of those. I wound up with Sevelin and Jennell in the east room. Raidon and Shima were in the west room. Poor little Nathalie was stuck with Redbeard. What finally turned the corner for me was when Nathalie wound up in the west room and Redbeard followed her there. I had to send Jennell over there to heal everyone, so all but Sevelin were together. That was more efficient because we could switch from fighting Soul Jars to fighting Redbeard depending on what was most advantageous. That was undoubtedly with most difficult battle I've ever seen. Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 The problem with this battle is that it is not difficult, but that it is tedious. It's a battle of attrition really because Redbeard's offensive skills are not super impressive at taking out the whole party. I seriously think this battle could be made more fun while still creating the atmosphere where Redbeard is very, very difficult to bring down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I'm starting to warm to the idea of the Redbeard fight. I played it on Normal, and it was okay, but it didn't occur to me until about halfway through that you're really much better off if you can lure Redbeard into one of the side chambers so that you can take down soul jars and him at the same time. I suspect that if you hoard items (as I did) and get him in the right spot, you can just whale on him and the jars. Well, except that the main issue I've consistently had with the fight is that I can't figure out how to do enough damage to the soul jars to get rid of enough of them that Redbeard can take reasonable amounts of damage. It seems as though you need to be able to keep the number down to no more than one or two in any given turn or else he's pretty much immune to everything, but you have to do a lot of damage every turn to be able to do that, and I never did solve that problem on anything higher than Normal. (To be fair, i didn't really try on the one playthrough when I might've been able to.) If you can't do it right, then you're stuck doing very little for a few turns until you can kill enough soul jars all at once and then trying to take advantage of that one vulnerability in that turn, and then you repeat. You spend many turns doing nothing just to get one turn of doing something. This works, but it's boring. And there's something to be said against a fight in which the puzzle is figuring out how to make the fight not annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Catoblepas Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 My solution was to mod the health of the soul jars to make them quicker to kill. This made the fight much less tedious while still keeping it a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Ohsky Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Somehow i skipped the idea of killin this guy as i sensed the tediously effort it would require. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I kept the same notion in my mind as well. If I thought some of the later fights were hard, I dont want to imagine redbeard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Ohsky Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 More justified because of the aura of grandiosity that is built around him on the whole game, i thought "this guy has to be cheap, and boring to kill, as hell", turned out it was, by reading posts in forums. The balance between fun and challenge got broken in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Redbeard has survived as the longest Keeper so you know going into the fight that it won't be easy. It is tedious because even knowing what to do it takes a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Ohsky Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 So better skip it as is the end of the game anyway, that´s the fail i see in it. No battle has to be tedious i suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Its not just that, look at the history which is something Ive been reading lately in journal. Redbeard and Telera are known to be some of the most powerful people (almost gods) in the whole world. They've enhanced their life and made themselves almost untouchable. In a way, it actually makes sense that fighting him in his time of power wouldn't work. Look at tarkus. I just hope that in Avadon 2 I can choose more than 1 ending. That'd be cool and I think Jeff will do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Kennedy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The fight took me well over an hour... And that was on the easy skill setting... With nearly constant cheat code use... My biggest problem was that it seemed that Redbeard would summon up new soul jars faster than I could kill them. As soon as one fell Redbeard would summon up a replacement two or 3 turns later. Is this fight even possible to win as a singleton? Perhaps if the player could summon mobs quickly, but has anybody actually tried it? Some sort of contest to see who can kill Redbeard the fastest might be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Nope, you can't damage both the soul jars and Redbeard together so it should be impossible as a singleton, the creatures you summon are good for damage taking and keeping Redbeard busy but they can't really hit anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 It might be possible to win as a singleton by applying a battle frenzy condition to yourself, taking down one or two soul jars in your first action of the turn and damaging Redbeard in your second action. It'd be painfully slow, though, even on the easiest difficulty setting. I mean, more painfully slow than killing Redbeard already is. Mountbatten 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I tried as a singleton and the first time you get a mental attack and fail is the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Even on Casual? It seems like a character with enough points pumped into Dexterity and Endurance and enough runestone bonuses to evasion should be invincible enough to just tough it out until the effect wears off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I only tried it on torment, but with resistances capped at 90% there will always be periods where you fail a terrorize mental attack and then if you survive you have to heal and deal with soul jars. I don't think I even made it to the point where I could access soul jars. Also Redbeard as a boss monster almost always hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Soul of Wit Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Hints: ... 2. Have the Warrior "see" the Soul Jars. This way, the Shadow Walker and the Mage will be able to fight in both rooms without having to walk to the two separate rooms. ... What the heck does this mean? There is a wall between these two rooms. Even with a "spotter" you can't attack from one room to the other, can you? Personally, I tried the battle a few times and decided I would never see this ending. If I can't win a battle on Casual without cheats then the battle is too much for me. For that reason, I have to relegate Avadon to the second class of Spiderweb games. Too many people see this battle as way out of balance with the rest of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 What the heck does this mean? There is a wall between these two rooms. Even with a "spotter" you can't attack from one room to the other, can you? Personally, I tried the battle a few times and decided I would never see this ending. If I can't win a battle on Casual without cheats then the battle is too much for me. For that reason, I have to relegate Avadon to the second class of Spiderweb games. Too many people see this battle as way out of balance with the rest of the game. According to Jeff's blog, he intentionally designed the Redbeard fight so that most players would never be able to complete it, with the expectation that most of them would give up and choose the other ending. I'm not sure of the wisdom of that design decision, but it seems like it worked as intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Catoblepas Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 According to Jeff's blog, he intentionally designed the Redbeard fight so that most players would never be able to complete it, with the expectation that most of them would give up and choose the other ending. I'm not sure of the wisdom of that design decision, but it seems like it worked as intended. I just modded the Level of the Golems down so the could be killed in a timely fashion, making the fight much less tedious to finish. Probably not what he intended Hopefully Jeff listens to all the controversy over the Redbeard battle and gives folks with rebel sympathies a proper path and ending this time around instead of just teasing us for the entierty of the game and then throwing up a ridiculous boss battle wall like Redbeard and a rather unsatisfying ending. After several hours of effort grinding through that battle again and again till I got it, and I was sorely disappointed to see that the endign is nearly identical no matter wht you do, I still haven't bothered to the campaign a second go, I just haven't found enough replayability, despite the many thigns I liked about the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Since this is his best selling game, the next few games will probably end without many differences no matter what you do. It will be the final game where you get dramatically different endings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I do feel like Avadon's writing and mechanics work against each other at some points and the Redbeard fight is one of them. A central plot point is that your character has been deliberately put a position where they're expected to question the authority of Redbeard and Avadon, and yet supporting Redbeard is still treated as the default option, with opposing him being a challenge on the level of the bonus superbosses. I guess it fits with the idea that Avadon is universally resented throughout the nations of the Pact and only tolerated because of its capacity to enforce order through violence, but that message could probably have been gotten across without frustrating the player quite so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 That's what I found so frustrating about it. The entire game is basically screaming at you, "Kill Redbeard! You can kill Redbeard! Try to overthrow the tyrant!" But then when you try to do it, it's nearly impossible and not very fun. adc., Dikiyoba, RainbowDashRadical and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It goes back to Redbeard is the longest serving Keeper and the position is passed down to the successful assassin that kills the previous Keeper. You kill Redbeard and you become the new Keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Thynar Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 He's alive in Avadon 2, so yes, forget it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 He's alive in Avadon 2, so yes, forget it! Same thing with other SW-games, even if we killed certain person he/she was still alive in next or some other later game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Mairwen Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I actually tried to kill Redbeard; I assumed that the choices the game had me make at almost every turn was hinting that I should rule Avadon my- (well, our-)selves. After around 30 minutes I gave up and accepted my fate as a Hand. For that reason alone I am glad Redbeard is back in Avadon 2; this time he is going down, and it's definitely personal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 if we get to try kill Redbeard again is another mystery like will we meet Miranda or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Mairwen Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 if we get to try kill Redbeard again is another mystery like will we meet Miranda or not. Well everything is speculation. If we do get the chance, however... Also, it seems to be like Miranda will come back - Spiderweb obviously wanted to save her for a reason, or else we'd have had the chance to kill her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 JV might save Miranda for Avadon 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd SonnyBoy99 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Finally beat Redbeard on normal difficulty and it took 3 tries before I figured way to beat him. I can't imagine trying this on Torment. For people playing on normal this is how I beat him. 1. At start of battle, have Janell but the gems that give these blessing: Haste, War Chant. Then next round have her summon drake, use speed scrool, and cast Thorns. 2. Everyone should have Haste, Battle Frenzy, and Thorns now. Everyone should attack Redbeard with their most powerful attack. On normal difficulty at least, he is most vulnerable to magic/elemental damange. He has high physical resistence. 3. When Redbeard gets down to 1/2 health he will start healing and Sould Jars will start appearing. At this point have your pets go and click the buttons on the wall to open up the secret doors. 4. Position Shima and a bow BM in the right room and Natalie in the left room to kill the soul jars. 5. Position Janell and your remaining PC outside the entrance to the left room. 6. Start killing the soul jars and once the right room is clear move Shima to the left room to help Natalie kill the rest of the soul jars. 7. If you keep killing the soul jars fast enough in the left room, you should be able to pound on Redbeard with characters in the left room once all the soul jars are gone. Once I got all the soul jars where gone, I was able to bring down Redbeard pretty fast with magic attacks. Even a dex based Janell was able to do a lot of damage with her Spirit claw magic attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 He's alive in Avadon 2, so yes, forget it! Jeff chooses the ending for most of the games. And yes, it wasn't me who had the Balm of Life and a Raise Dead Spell. Just like Alwan in Geneforge 4. ----- -Nightwatcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Redbeard is almost a god when you meet him in the beginning, that doesn't change in the later parts of the game. He even tells the player at one point early on, "To get to be keeper, you have to defeat me-And I PROMISE you, you can't". The guys 100 years old and still running around like a madman. If anything he should be coaching Sarevok and Irenicus on how to be god-like. I defeated Sarevok with a 2 man party of my swashbuckler and a blackguard. If I tried that in Avadon with a 4 person party on torment-Nice knowing ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Redbeard is almost a god when you meet him in the beginning, that doesn't change in the later parts of the game. He even tells the player at one point early on, "To get to be keeper, you have to defeat me-And I PROMISE you, you can't". The guys 100 years old and still running around like a madman. If anything he should be coaching Sarevok and Irenicus on how to be god-like. I defeated Sarevok with a 2 man party of my swashbuckler and a blackguard. If I tried that in Avadon with a 4 person party on torment-Nice knowing ya. The problem isn't that Redbeard is hard, though. (Well, it kind of is, since for every instance of the game telling you that Redbeard is godly and invincible there are two that sucker you into thinking that rebelling is just as viable a plot path as staying loyal.) The problem is that Redbeard is a boring fight. It would be one thing if Redbeard could wipe the floor with you in a couple turns unless you had prepared just right; at least that would be over quickly. Instead, if you haven't made exactly the right preparations, the battle bogs down and can take literal hours on each attempt. Even if you do get everything right, chances are the fight will take more than half an hour, and not a very exciting or suspenseful half hour at that. You're basically repeating the same actions over and over, killing numerous soul jars, gradually chipping away at his health and hoping he runs out before you run out of items. It's a terrible example of final boss design, which is a shame given that otherwise Avadon had some of the most fun boss fights in a Spiderweb game to date. springacres 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Ohsky Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Redbeard battle is a test of patience no worth winning for me. Boredom > 1, Patience > 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fledgling Fyora Valiantineus Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Hey, can one of you Avadon Elites out there post a video of the story after you kill Redbeard? I really want to read it, but I've had my fill of trying to kill 'ole Crimson Fluff. ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Learned Noremac Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 The problem isn't that Redbeard is hard, though. (Well, it kind of is, since for every instance of the game telling you that Redbeard is godly and invincible there are two that sucker you into thinking that rebelling is just as viable a plot path as staying loyal.) The problem is that Redbeard is a boring fight. It would be one thing if Redbeard could wipe the floor with you in a couple turns unless you had prepared just right; at least that would be over quickly. Instead, if you haven't made exactly the right preparations, the battle bogs down and can take literal hours on each attempt. Even if you do get everything right, chances are the fight will take more than half an hour, and not a very exciting or suspenseful half hour at that. You're basically repeating the same actions over and over, killing numerous soul jars, gradually chipping away at his health and hoping he runs out before you run out of items. It's a terrible example of final boss design, which is a shame given that otherwise Avadon had some of the most fun boss fights in a Spiderweb game to date. Very much this. I actually did kill Redbeard on my first playthrough, but it took a LOOOONG time. But on my second playthrough, I attempted the Beloch and Zephyrine battles. Those were harder, but more fun. The issue is essentially this: the Zephyrine fight is long because it's hard. The Redbeard fight is only hard because it's long. I did try to cheese the Redbeard fight by occupying the spawn points of the Soul Jars with pets, hoping that it would prevent them from spawning. It doesn't. and I thought I was so clever. Incidentally, on this second playthrough I killed The Wayfarer during the Vebeaux sequence. What, exactly, is going on at the end there? On the one hand, the name shows it isn't The Wayfarer fighting him, just some random assassin, and the dialogue is a bit different. But when Redbeard asks you about him, all of your possible responses are about the Wayfarer. What's up with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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