Jump to content

Kill Redbeard? Forget it!!!


Indignus
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well, with a few script edits, I managed to dedicate my character for the "Kill redbeard story finish". Without learning the most powerful spells, I turned most scarabs into better spells (e.g. searing spark, radiate ice, dragonfire etc. and with unbelievable damages like 230-11200 which mostly bugs and the crit's damage is 0.) I tried to kill Redbeard and all he does is run around like a madman, terrify, and summon annoying soul jars. Then, I need to shadowstep over and over to return and return from room to room. I have to admit it... the most fun and challenging part. What's more, my teammates are too weak to distract redbeard. Maybe I'll beat him with luck someday...

---------------------

-Beaten, Nightwatcher

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I screwed myself on this fight just because I was doing the "no resurrection scroll" achievement, and even though it unlocks before you get to Redbeard (so you technically could use scrolls during the redbeard fight without ruining the acheievement), I basically just sold every resurrection scroll I could find the whole game. So I had none left for the fight and had to return to a previous save and buy a bunch.

 

This is really a fight you have to plan for well in advance as there are no shops or anything once the end game starts (which itself takes a few hours of play to get through, so if you make it to redbeard and aren't prepared you have to back track a really long ways). Kind of a pain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

is there any possibility to do this fight right when returning to avadon (and without doing some more "endgame", just going to redbeard and challenge him? or is he supposed to be unkillable at this point and you only have the opportunity to kill him later in the game? 'cause, i'm trying to kill him for about an hour now and he's pretty much immune to everything...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, i guess my question wasn't very precise... i suppose this IS the game ending, right? or do i have to do anything else first? i got back from Castle Vebaux, after being hunted in Beraza Deep Woods, and now try to kill redbeard with a five warrior party. Any chance to finish this fight successfully at this point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hints:

1. Have the Shadow Walker and the Mage in the northern secret room, and put the warrior in the southern room.

2. Have the Warrior "see" the Soul Jars. This way, the Shadow Walker and the Mage will be able to fight in both rooms without having to walk to the two separate rooms.

3. I prefer to have the Shaman fighting Red Beard as she can easily heal herself.

4. I prefer to have the PC fighting the Soul Jars, but I suppose a person can try to fight Red Beard.

If you need:

1. Turn down the difficulty of the game using the Preference Screen

2. Use cheats like healmenow and rechargeme.

 

Using these hints, I defeated Red Beard in about thirty minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ive played enough of Avadon a number of times to know that based on some of the difficult other fights in game, fighting redbeard is a good way of taking the remaining amount of sanity I have left and mailing it to jeff.

 

Ill be the first person to say that the next game would be really cool if you are given more choices for endgame fights/ending paths that can be beaten and hopefully, if Redbeard is there, there is a chance to fight him that is at least marginally reasonable :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I finally defeated Redbeard. God, it was long and ugly - it took 2 hours. First I turned the difficulty down. Having planned on the battle from the beginning I had hoarded haste and battle potions, so I had lots of those. I wound up with Sevelin and Jennell in the east room. Raidon and Shima were in the west room. Poor little Nathalie was stuck with Redbeard. What finally turned the corner for me was when Nathalie wound up in the west room and Redbeard followed her there. I had to send Jennell over there to heal everyone, so all but Sevelin were together. That was more efficient because we could switch from fighting Soul Jars to fighting Redbeard depending on what was most advantageous. That was undoubtedly with most difficult battle I've ever seen. Yikes!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with this battle is that it is not difficult, but that it is tedious. It's a battle of attrition really because Redbeard's offensive skills are not super impressive at taking out the whole party. I seriously think this battle could be made more fun while still creating the atmosphere where Redbeard is very, very difficult to bring down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm starting to warm to the idea of the Redbeard fight. I played it on Normal, and it was okay, but it didn't occur to me until about halfway through that you're really much better off if you can lure Redbeard into one of the side chambers so that you can take down soul jars and him at the same time. I suspect that if you hoard items (as I did) and get him in the right spot, you can just whale on him and the jars.

 

Well, except that the main issue I've consistently had with the fight is that I can't figure out how to do enough damage to the soul jars to get rid of enough of them that Redbeard can take reasonable amounts of damage. It seems as though you need to be able to keep the number down to no more than one or two in any given turn or else he's pretty much immune to everything, but you have to do a lot of damage every turn to be able to do that, and I never did solve that problem on anything higher than Normal. (To be fair, i didn't really try on the one playthrough when I might've been able to.)

 

If you can't do it right, then you're stuck doing very little for a few turns until you can kill enough soul jars all at once and then trying to take advantage of that one vulnerability in that turn, and then you repeat. You spend many turns doing nothing just to get one turn of doing something. This works, but it's boring. And there's something to be said against a fight in which the puzzle is figuring out how to make the fight not annoying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Its not just that, look at the history which is something Ive been reading lately in journal. Redbeard and Telera are known to be some of the most powerful people (almost gods) in the whole world. They've enhanced their life and made themselves almost untouchable. In a way, it actually makes sense that fighting him in his time of power wouldn't work. Look at tarkus.

 

I just hope that in Avadon 2 I can choose more than 1 ending. That'd be cool and I think Jeff will do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

The fight took me well over an hour...

And that was on the easy skill setting...

With nearly constant cheat code use...

 

My biggest problem was that it seemed that Redbeard would summon up new soul jars faster than I could kill them. As soon as one fell Redbeard would summon up a replacement two or 3 turns later.

 

Is this fight even possible to win as a singleton? Perhaps if the player could summon mobs quickly, but has anybody actually tried it?

 

Some sort of contest to see who can kill Redbeard the fastest might be interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might be possible to win as a singleton by applying a battle frenzy condition to yourself, taking down one or two soul jars in your first action of the turn and damaging Redbeard in your second action. It'd be painfully slow, though, even on the easiest difficulty setting.

 

I mean, more painfully slow than killing Redbeard already is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I only tried it on torment, but with resistances capped at 90% there will always be periods where you fail a terrorize mental attack and then if you survive you have to heal and deal with soul jars. I don't think I even made it to the point where I could access soul jars. Also Redbeard as a boss monster almost always hits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hints:

...

2. Have the Warrior "see" the Soul Jars. This way, the Shadow Walker and the Mage will be able to fight in both rooms without having to walk to the two separate rooms.

...

What the heck does this mean? There is a wall between these two rooms. Even with a "spotter" you can't attack from one room to the other, can you?

 

Personally, I tried the battle a few times and decided I would never see this ending. If I can't win a battle on Casual without cheats then the battle is too much for me. For that reason, I have to relegate Avadon to the second class of Spiderweb games. Too many people see this battle as way out of balance with the rest of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What the heck does this mean? There is a wall between these two rooms. Even with a "spotter" you can't attack from one room to the other, can you?

 

Personally, I tried the battle a few times and decided I would never see this ending. If I can't win a battle on Casual without cheats then the battle is too much for me. For that reason, I have to relegate Avadon to the second class of Spiderweb games. Too many people see this battle as way out of balance with the rest of the game.

 

According to Jeff's blog, he intentionally designed the Redbeard fight so that most players would never be able to complete it, with the expectation that most of them would give up and choose the other ending. I'm not sure of the wisdom of that design decision, but it seems like it worked as intended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to Jeff's blog, he intentionally designed the Redbeard fight so that most players would never be able to complete it, with the expectation that most of them would give up and choose the other ending. I'm not sure of the wisdom of that design decision, but it seems like it worked as intended.

 

I just modded the Level of the Golems down so the could be killed in a timely fashion, making the fight much less tedious to finish. Probably not what he intended :) Hopefully Jeff listens to all the controversy over the Redbeard battle and gives folks with rebel sympathies a proper path and ending this time around instead of just teasing us for the entierty of the game and then throwing up a ridiculous boss battle wall like Redbeard and a rather unsatisfying ending. After several hours of effort grinding through that battle again and again till I got it, and I was sorely disappointed to see that the endign is nearly identical no matter wht you do, I still haven't bothered to the campaign a second go, I just haven't found enough replayability, despite the many thigns I liked about the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do feel like Avadon's writing and mechanics work against each other at some points and the Redbeard fight is one of them. A central plot point is that your character has been deliberately put a position where they're expected to question the authority of Redbeard and Avadon, and yet supporting Redbeard is still treated as the default option, with opposing him being a challenge on the level of the bonus superbosses. I guess it fits with the idea that Avadon is universally resented throughout the nations of the Pact and only tolerated because of its capacity to enforce order through violence, but that message could probably have been gotten across without frustrating the player quite so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually tried to kill Redbeard; I assumed that the choices the game had me make at almost every turn was hinting that I should rule Avadon my- (well, our-)selves. After around 30 minutes I gave up and accepted my fate as a Hand.

 

For that reason alone I am glad Redbeard is back in Avadon 2; this time he is going down, and it's definitely personal!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if we get to try kill Redbeard again is another mystery like will we meet Miranda or not.

 

Well everything is speculation. If we do get the chance, however... :angry:

 

Also, it seems to be like Miranda will come back - Spiderweb obviously wanted to save her for a reason, or else we'd have had the chance to kill her!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Finally beat Redbeard on normal difficulty and it took 3 tries before I figured way to beat him. I can't imagine trying this on Torment. For people playing on normal this is how I beat him.

 

1. At start of battle, have Janell but the gems that give these blessing: Haste, War Chant. Then next round have her summon drake, use speed scrool, and cast Thorns.

2. Everyone should have Haste, Battle Frenzy, and Thorns now. Everyone should attack Redbeard with their most powerful attack. On normal difficulty at least, he is most vulnerable to magic/elemental damange. He has high physical resistence.

3. When Redbeard gets down to 1/2 health he will start healing and Sould Jars will start appearing. At this point have your pets go and click the buttons on the wall to open up the secret doors.

4. Position Shima and a bow BM in the right room and Natalie in the left room to kill the soul jars.

5. Position Janell and your remaining PC outside the entrance to the left room.

6. Start killing the soul jars and once the right room is clear move Shima to the left room to help Natalie kill the rest of the soul jars.

7. If you keep killing the soul jars fast enough in the left room, you should be able to pound on Redbeard with characters in the left room once all the soul jars are gone.

 

Once I got all the soul jars where gone, I was able to bring down Redbeard pretty fast with magic attacks. Even a dex based Janell was able to do a lot of damage with her Spirit claw magic attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Redbeard is almost a god when you meet him in the beginning, that doesn't change in the later parts of the game. He even tells the player at one point early on, "To get to be keeper, you have to defeat me-And I PROMISE you, you can't". The guys 100 years old and still running around like a madman.

 

If anything he should be coaching Sarevok and Irenicus on how to be god-like. I defeated Sarevok with a 2 man party of my swashbuckler and a blackguard. If I tried that in Avadon with a 4 person party on torment-Nice knowing ya.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Redbeard is almost a god when you meet him in the beginning, that doesn't change in the later parts of the game. He even tells the player at one point early on, "To get to be keeper, you have to defeat me-And I PROMISE you, you can't". The guys 100 years old and still running around like a madman.

 

If anything he should be coaching Sarevok and Irenicus on how to be god-like. I defeated Sarevok with a 2 man party of my swashbuckler and a blackguard. If I tried that in Avadon with a 4 person party on torment-Nice knowing ya.

 

The problem isn't that Redbeard is hard, though. (Well, it kind of is, since for every instance of the game telling you that Redbeard is godly and invincible there are two that sucker you into thinking that rebelling is just as viable a plot path as staying loyal.) The problem is that Redbeard is a boring fight. It would be one thing if Redbeard could wipe the floor with you in a couple turns unless you had prepared just right; at least that would be over quickly. Instead, if you haven't made exactly the right preparations, the battle bogs down and can take literal hours on each attempt. Even if you do get everything right, chances are the fight will take more than half an hour, and not a very exciting or suspenseful half hour at that. You're basically repeating the same actions over and over, killing numerous soul jars, gradually chipping away at his health and hoping he runs out before you run out of items. It's a terrible example of final boss design, which is a shame given that otherwise Avadon had some of the most fun boss fights in a Spiderweb game to date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

 

 

The problem isn't that Redbeard is hard, though. (Well, it kind of is, since for every instance of the game telling you that Redbeard is godly and invincible there are two that sucker you into thinking that rebelling is just as viable a plot path as staying loyal.) The problem is that Redbeard is a boring fight. It would be one thing if Redbeard could wipe the floor with you in a couple turns unless you had prepared just right; at least that would be over quickly. Instead, if you haven't made exactly the right preparations, the battle bogs down and can take literal hours on each attempt. Even if you do get everything right, chances are the fight will take more than half an hour, and not a very exciting or suspenseful half hour at that. You're basically repeating the same actions over and over, killing numerous soul jars, gradually chipping away at his health and hoping he runs out before you run out of items. It's a terrible example of final boss design, which is a shame given that otherwise Avadon had some of the most fun boss fights in a Spiderweb game to date.

 

Very much this. I actually did kill Redbeard on my first playthrough, but it took a LOOOONG time. But on my second playthrough, I attempted the Beloch and Zephyrine battles. Those were harder, but more fun. The issue is essentially this: the Zephyrine fight is long because it's hard. The Redbeard fight is only hard because it's long.

 

I did try to cheese the Redbeard fight by occupying the spawn points of the Soul Jars with pets, hoping that it would prevent them from spawning. It doesn't. :( and I thought I was so clever.

 

Incidentally, on this second playthrough I killed The Wayfarer during the Vebeaux sequence. What, exactly, is going on at the end there? On the one hand, the name shows it isn't The Wayfarer fighting him, just some random assassin, and the dialogue is a bit different. But when Redbeard asks you about him, all of your possible responses are about the Wayfarer. What's up with that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...