the real poll for how many years you are here

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

well here is the actual poll

thank you to Actaeon for showing me how to do it

[Triumph]

Truly, this poll is a work of genius. It leaves me almost lachrymose. Almost.

 

I voted based on the time I've been paying attention to the forum; I lurked unregistered for a while before I actually got an account, and it was a good while after that before I started to post with any degree of frequency.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Look at my registration date. I don't think I lurked much before that.

[Trenton.]

Darn all of you! This thread was meant to know how long you have been here! Not to give me extra math D: Its summer, and high school will be hell next year. Don't torture me over my summer* break like this.

[Earth]

torture ftw!!!

[Aran]

Nine years and a bit.

 

I remember it like it was yesterday - it helps that I'm sitting at the very same desk I had back then.

[BMA]

I joined four years ago, but only started posting this year. But that must be how it always is, or how is it that there aren't any regular posters among the newcomers ?

[Mea Tulpa]

For posterity, here are the current results:

 

Click to reveal..

Just joined! 0 (0%)

over 1 year 1 (5%)

2 years 0 (0%)

3 years 0 (0%)

4 years 2 (10%)

5 years 0 (0%)

6 years 3 (14%)

7 years 4 (19%)

8 years 4 (19%)

9 years 4 (19%)

1 decade and up! 3 (14%)

 

Does anyone else find the concentration of 6-11 year members a little surprising? I guess it makes sense when you think about who posts a lot, but wow -- what does that say about the community here? In-crowd much?

[Randomizer]

You have a lot that join to ask a question and then lurk or disappear.

[Tyranicus]

I've been here more than 6.5 years, so I rounded up to 7 in the poll.

[Actaeon]

Give it time, Slarty. The frequent posters got to the poll right off the bat. From here, I expect it to even out once those who check once or twice a week start to check in. Also, it may be that General has different demographics from the more game-centric boards.

[Dintiradan]

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

Also, it may be that General has different demographics from the more game-centric boards.

This. Though I think Slarty already knows this.

I joined early 2006, though I lurked intermittently for about a year before that, when I started playing the Avernum trilogy. First General discussion I remember was Alorael describing the proper way of ingesting skribbane.

[Alorael at Large]

If Spiderweb were picking up new dedicated members at a steady rate, I'd expect a tapering-off effect. If Spiderweb became more likely to hook long-term members at certain points, I'd expect a bulgy curve. Instead, it currently looks like 6 years ago something changed and the boards stopped bringing in fresh blood as well.

 

—Alorael, who went back to Slarty's history of the community. Looks like the so-called Age of Shadows was a bad thing, and hopefully the Age of AIMHack will be better at bringing new faces, or at least avatars, to the table.

[Actaeon]

I was going to proposed the increased availability of online walkthroughs / general non-forum exposure, except that actual account registration seems to have increased.

 

Perhaps we are witnessing the demise of the forum era, and are now simply an island in a sea of social media.

[Rowen]

I wonder how many people post in the gaming threads only and never check/post in general. I know that with AEFTpitz there are a few names that I've not seen in general at all.

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

methinks i should have made options for 11, 12, and 13 judging by the sheer amount of votes in the decade box

[Alorael at Large]

The boards are just over 11 years old, so two of those wouldn't be very helpful.

 

—Alorael, who now sees that his earlier analysis was based on a sampling error. Four years ago is the new magic date.

[Actaeon]

And it certainly won't be shifting further as more data piles in. (This would be a good question for statistical analysis, wouldn't it? I hope Aran gets some part of the endeavor up again. It was my only source of data for things like that.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Wow, I just realized that I'll be hitting 5 years this coming October. I feel old. It certainly hasn't felt like that long. Then again, my activity was minimal in the beginning, probably just a few annoying noob-ish posts in the Geneforge forums.

[Student of Trinity]

Hmmm. There does seem to be a sharp fall-off at 4 years ago, in comparison to remarkable steadiness before that. Though there's probably a certain skewing whereby younger members are less likely to answer the poll.

 

But it kind of fits my unscientific impression that there are not really so many newer members around these days. Most everyone here has been here a while, at least in General.

 

I'm not sure AIMHack is going to bring in new blood much. How many campaigns have attracted newbies? It takes a bit of nerve to barge into an extended RPG campaign that has clearly been set up by other people who have known each other for a while. The general, free-flowing idiocy of earlier epochs might have been more newbie-accessible.

 

To some extent, though, a community like ours can simply succeed to death. Once a certain threshold number of people get together and develop their own kind of mini-culture, the very fact that these people seem to already have a thing going can make new people feel like outsiders. A lot of them will move on in search of newer frontiers, where they can be part of building a community.

 

That's a theory of mine, anyway, based on haphazard experience in totally different kinds of groups from this one.

[Dintiradan]

Actaeon might be on to something, though; this might be due to a demographic shift in the Internet itself. Also, it's been a long while since BoE/BoA, and there doesn't seem to be as much new blood with the newer games that don't feature any user-generated content. Did the community explode in between E3 and BoE?

[The Mystic]

Let's see, I've been here for...

*quickly checks profile*

Wow, almost six years now. I guess time really does fly when you're having fun.

[Mea Tulpa]

The major community explosion came with BoE. Before that, there was not much of a community to speak of, although there were some relatively non-social Exile mailing lists.

 

The general pattern for most of the days of this forum has been increases in activity and new users every time there's a new release. The biggest increases came with big-name releases (like Avernum 4) as well as releases that expanded the SW audience (especially with Geneforge, or with the recent HIB releases).

 

We still see that pattern: there is an increase in activity and new users every time there is a release. The difference is that almost nobody sticks around these days.

 

Compare to Avernum 4's release in late 2005. People didn't stick around because of the game, which was generally lambasted on the forums, but there was a HUGE crowd of people who showed up around that time and stuck around for at least half a year. Many of those people are still with us.

 

I don't think the issue is one of exclusivity or of being closed off. I think we are FAR less exclusive now. In 2005, the words "oldbie" and "newbie" were used ALL THE TIME. There were plenty of oldbies around who had no problem rubbing the distinction in your face if you said something sub-par, and it was fairly common for new users to get insulted or cursed out by TM at some point (or by Alec, or Infernal, or Salmon, or Fatman, or...). Of course there were many people who were friendly and welcoming too, but the point is we are hardly worse off on that front today.

 

I also don't think it's a demographic issue. Then as now, new users varied in age but were more often on the younger end of the age spectrum. Then as now, new users came because of the games.

 

I think the big difference is that there's less going on to get sucked into. As SoT mentioned, AIMHack does not draw in new users. In early 2006 there was all KINDS of stuff going on in the community that everybody could watch. A good chunk of it was negative drama -- Ed, Arghhhhhhhhh, and Ashbygate come to mind -- but also there were chats, and scripts, and metaphor threads, and huge RPs, and so on.

 

In other words, I think it's less about deterrent or bad fits, and more about lack of substance on our part. (All this leads up to the revelation that will come at the end of the bus ride. I really need to get back to that!) Recently there has been a slight shift in a positive direction. It remains to be seen whether or not that will continue.

[Balladeer]

Might it have to do with the old Demo CD's/games no longer working on the newer OSes? All of the past momentum made with spreading demo CD's from friend to friend was stinted.

[Dintiradan]

Originally Posted By: Jewels in Black

Might it have to do with the old Demo CD's/games no longer working on the newer OSes? All of the past momentum made with spreading demo CD's from friend to friend was stinted.

Eh, I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure acquisition isn't the problem. JV's probably drawing in more people with Steam and iTunes than he did with demo CDs. I could be wrong, though!

[Mea Tulpa]

Those shareware CDs were a big thing in the 90's... not so much in the last decade. If anything, I think the years people stuck around on the forums were actually when SW had the *least* publicity. Around 1996, pretty much every mac user who played RPGs was familiar with Exile, simply because there were so few options out there. Today, Steam and the App Store have no doubt helped a lot. Things were probably not so good back when Avernum 4 "saved my business."

[Randomizer]

Back when Avernum 4 came out Apple mentioned Jeff's games because there weren't that many companies making games for Mac. But Jeff didn't advertise outside of interviews for gaming sites like IGN.

 

Still most of the new business is from Steam and the App Store. From those that post here, there are several that had played Exile and thought Jeff had gone out of business.

[Actaeon]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

In other words, I think it's less about deterrent or bad fits, and more about lack of substance on our part... Recently there has been a slight shift in a positive direction. It remains to be seen whether or not that will continue.

We'll just have to have a holiday or something to generate community spirit. We'll have live Diplomacy and chess, do a group chat, and argue about which Spiderweb game is the best. Alorael will be assigned to bring the Skribbane, but consume it all before he arrives and start sniping everything in sight. Oh, what a grand old time we'll have!

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

somewhere between the first two options.

But I watched these forums without joining for several years.

 

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

In other words, I think it's less about deterrent or bad fits, and more about lack of substance on our part... Recently there has been a slight shift in a positive direction. It remains to be seen whether or not that will continue.

 

We'll just have to have a holiday or something to generate community spirit. We'll have live Diplomacy and chess, do a group chat, and argue about which Spiderweb game is the best. Alorael will be assigned to bring the Skribbane, but consume it all before he arrives and start sniping everything in sight. Oh, what a grand old time we'll have!

 

Ah, that gives me some ideas.

[Cairo Jim]

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

In other words, I think it's less about deterrent or bad fits, and more about lack of substance on our part... Recently there has been a slight shift in a positive direction. It remains to be seen whether or not that will continue.

We'll just have to have a holiday or something to generate community spirit. We'll have live Diplomacy and chess, do a group chat, and argue about which Spiderweb game is the best. Alorael will be assigned to bring the Skribbane, but consume it all before he arrives and start sniping everything in sight. Oh, what a grand old time we'll have!

Sounds very interesting. Back to the mango tree people!

[Dire Hobbit]

Just joined.

 

I bought Exile back in the olden times,

 

now I am catching up on 15 years of games the cheapskate way via steam.

[Death Knight]

Welcome friend. There's definitely quite a bit of fun for you to catch up on. Not sure what to recommend but i would say try avadon or avernum's re-remake. Even if you've already beaten it, its really a great game.

[Actaeon]

If you were an Exile person, you'll probably find Escape from the Pit more your speed than Avadon. Also, I trust that someone has instructed you to leave your sanity at the door? It's hard to stress that enough; the fluffy turtles have been quite lean of late.

[Dire Hobbit]

Well that's a philosophical question.

 

Am I still an Exile person even after 15 years when every atom in my body has been replaced?

 

 

[The Ratt]

No, but mostly because nobody acts the same 15 years later, not the whole atomic makeup thingy.

[Dire Hobbit]

What about if God has predestined me to be an Exile person?

 

No matter how my actions change, surely nothing can interfere with providence?

[Dikiyoba]

Bah, forget God. Emperor Hawthorne has declared that you be banished to the underworld. It doesn't matter whether you call yourself an Exile person, an Avernum person, an Avernum: Subtitled person, or an Exilethernumforgedon person—you've been banished for life, so get back into your lichen-lit lizard-loaded pit!

 

Dikiyoba.

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

Originally Posted By: Dire Hobbit

Well that's a philosophical question.

Am I still an Exile person even after 15 years when every atom in my body has been replaced?

once you are an exile, you are an exile forever
.
.
btw what happened 2 years ago that noone joined then?

[Harehunter]

Welcome Hobbit.

I came along by nearly the same path. I can't even remember why I joined when I did, or why I was inactive for a while. I only became active when I got a notice that the website for some maps I had linked to had been derezed. It was for just this reason I had archived a copy of those maps. Since there seemed to be an interest in them I put them up on my site. Then I found out that there is quite a diverse and interesting colony here that shares my attitude about sanity (see below).

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

I think the big difference is that there's less going on to get sucked into. As SoT mentioned, AIMHack does not draw in new users. In early 2006 there was all KINDS of stuff going on in the community that everybody could watch. A good chunk of it was negative drama -- Ed, Arghhhhhhhhh, and Ashbygate come to mind -- but also there were chats, and scripts, and metaphor threads, and huge RPs, and so on.

In other words, I think it's less about deterrent or bad fits, and more about lack of substance on our part. (All this leads up to the revelation that will come at the end of the bus ride. I really need to get back to that!) Recently there has been a slight shift in a positive direction. It remains to be seen whether or not that will continue.

Your Slartanalysis of the issue at hand seems accurate, as always. However, one lurking variable that I think has not been discussed yet on this matter is a cultural shift occurring the background noise of the Internet. Online forums do not have the preeminence on digital socializing that they once yielded, with the ascendance of Skype, Facebook, Twitter, etc. I believe this means that, in a site where people don't see any sort of purpose to their socializing with strangers, retention of membership would decline.

Also, more web surfing is done with mobile devices, which aren't the best for writing decent-length posts. These two factors would supplement the difficulties of less membership retention compared to the time you selected, post-A4 2005.

[Student of Trinity]

Huh. Those are good points. Would the rise of the AIMHacks perhaps be part of this general trend, as the web gets more specialized in maintaining closer relationships in smaller groups, rather than supporting broad public exchanges? That is, the web used to be a giant town square, but now it seems to be becoming a billion living rooms.

[Actaeon]

Originally Posted By: Goldenking

However, one lurking variable that I think has not been discussed yet on this matter is a cultural shift occurring the background noise of the Internet.

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

Perhaps we are witnessing the demise of the forum era, and are now simply an island in a sea of social media.

Have you gone and blocked me, Goldenking? And if you have, how could you possibly answer that question?

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

Have you gone and blocked me, Goldenking? And if you have, how could you possibly answer that question?

Hmm? Do I hear the wind blowing? Quite odd - the Internet sure has developed quickly and unexpectedly, if so!

In all honesty, I apologize for repeating some of what you said. In my defense, I expanded on it a bit more than what your original sentence implicated by trying to offer some guesswork at the causation of the change.

[Triumph]

For what it's worth, AIMHack (back in its early, whimsical days) was what drew me into becoming an active poster on these forums rather than merely someone who occasionally lurked. I'm probably just odd in that respect, and whether I've contributed anything may be open to question, but the fact remains that AIMHack did influence me to participate in the larger forum community here.

 

/twocents

[Actaeon]

I don't mind repetition. I was just amused at your choice of words: "I think has not been discussed". And yes, you elaborated, and so did Dinti. That we came to the same conclusion independently is, I think, a good sign. We're not exactly vying to invent calculus or the atom bomb.

 

What really intrigues me is SoT's observation. Is it really a matter of an overarching small group / big group trend, or did people just get bored with the forum concept once the novelty wore off?

[Mea Tulpa]

What, specifically, suggests that the web is less of a town square and more of a colony of living rooms, compared to seven years ago?

[Dire Hobbit]

Less of a town square and more of a factory/laboratory with cubicles ~

[Student of Trinity]

Well, Facebook, I think. Plus whatever competitors it has. Maybe Twitter.

 

A lot of people spend online time interacting in gated settings with people whom they have in some way specifically chosen, rather than hanging out on open forums where random strangers regularly show up. The gated networks weren't as developed seven years ago. Being online mostly meant being extremely public — being in full view of the whole wide world, and seeing whatever came by. It was walking through the really big town square. Nowadays you can instead spend a lot of time reading stuff that you've specifically subscribed to, and posting stuff to a specifically chosen audience. That's more like visiting a friend's house, or inviting them into your living room.

[Mea Tulpa]

Hmm. Okay, I'll buy that.

[Student of Trinity]

Maybe people just got bored of forums because forums had had their five years of being hot and it was time for a new hot thing. But I don't think so, because I don't think very many people are actually such slaves to fashion. People tend to stick with things if they like them. I think that the infrastructure for letting people choose whom to read, and whom to write to — social networks, in fact — was a major development. A lot of people really wanted that, and once it became possible, they changed their online behavior.