The Chosen Ending - Geneforge 5

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

It has been awhile since Geneforge 4 came out for Mac, and it's about time to start pondering Geneforge 5.

 

First off, which ending do you think will be chosen? I doubt that either of the Rebel endings will be chosen, since they seem to just kill off the Shapers. However, both the Trako and Shaper endings would fit well with a continuing storyline(which I hope there wile be), with the Trako endings being a continuation of the war, and the Shaper ending sending it back to being a story of hidden rebellions.

 

There is a possibility of the Rebel ending however, the drayks and serviles both seem to hate the drakons, which does not bode well for them. But I still don't really see the Rebel ending being chosen.

 

I hope to see Khryk return once again..... I liked his presence in Geneforge 4. I also hope to see Agent Miranda and General Crowley again. They were both interesting characters and added a bit of a teast to the Shaper side.

 

I also hope we get to see the entire continent, instead of just the eastern portion. After clearing out Western Morass I was dissapointed to see that you couldn't get to the west with only a wooden wall stopping you.

 

What do you expect and want to see?

[Lilith]

The Shapers aren't wiped out in the Rebel ending; they just lose a lot of one continent. In fact, in the Rebel ending the Shapers fight back by relaxing their laws and making their own unbound creations. The war pretty much ends in a stalemate no matter what ending you choose.

 

(Regarding the Western Morass, what's stopping you from going further west isn't a wooden wall; it's a wooden wall and the Shaper army.)

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

But then the Shapers stop being Shapers. Well, technichally they are still Shapers, but the whole Principle of being a Shaper is lost. They act exactly like the Drakons.

 

You could easily make one small hole and slip through. Stealth is the answer to the army. It shouldn't be that hard should it?

[*i]

Personally I would like to see a different direction from Geneforge 5. Since GF 2, we've been building up to the Shaper-Drakon war and GF 4 has seen it to fruition. Don't get me wrong, GF4 was great, but like the Avernum series, I feel a fresher storyline is needed at this point. Unlike the Avernum series, the plot isn't stale yet, I fear another Rebel vs. Shaper like conflict game would put us there.

 

Although this may be out on a limb, I would rather see a totally different game. Having a new universe to immerse myself in would be good since it's been a long time now.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

It might be a Trako vs. Drakons and Shapers War, although I'm not sure that the Trakos would stand a chance. Currently that's the best idea I can think of for a plot that's not Shapers vs. Drakons.

 

What about creations? With a war going for this long the two shaping sides will end up creating a couple of new creation types per year, if the stalemate continues. Although I'm not sure how Jeff would come up with any more creations, I was suprised enough he could come up with the Kyshaak, Wingbolt and War Trall.

[Retlaw May]

I agree with i*, though I bet that Jeff would find a way to make G5 interesting, I feel that you should stop while you are ahead, not end on a sour note. I mean really, if I saw another Geneforge I would like to see new creations, but at the same time I would question why it would take the Shapers hundreds of years to make those few basic war models yet crank out like 6 in a few years. We don't want another thing like G3 where most things are repeats.

I also realise that it is difficult to come up with a whole new game series. Not only in a creative sense, but that it will always be compared to his previous series. In any case, I don't expect to see a new game any time soon from Jeff, but when it comes out, I think the wait will be worth it.

 

Edit: grammer

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

They're at war, they have to adapt and fast. Also, they hone their minds so they can learn more easily, which would help with the new creations. Also, I don't see how you can end Geneforge now. All of the endings lead to a war, except the Shaper one, and that would be to boring.

[*i]

Coming up with more creations should not be too difficult compared to writing an in-depth storyline. Using the Shaper ending would easily force the plot to go in a different direction. You might find it "boring" but I feel it opens up a lot more avenues than the others.

 

On the Shaper ending, my one disappointment is that I'd prefer if Ghaldring lives, because he has more character to be developed there after so much lead up in GF3. The endings can pick and choose from various fates and not be one particular ending but a mix.

 

Going with the Rebel ending pretty much ensures more of the same in GF3 and GF4. This time the creations are bigger and tougher, but then where do we go from here? What climactic thing can possibly be done here to keep the storyline exciting and new? We already have the Unbound, another indestructable creation really doesn't seem all that satisfying. I'm sure we can come up with other superweapons too, but ultimately it's just more of the same.

 

As I've said, the Geneforge rebellion has pretty much reached a logical cumulation with the Unbound. You can't really build on top of that, but you can build sideways.

[Randomizer]

I'd like to see a different part of the war. Maybe the Shaper infiltration to recapture the Ashen Islands by going after the Rebellion leaders or Rebels going after the Shaper Council. You work your way up gathering information on the route to you goal.

 

I don't want to see the stalemate a few years later.

[Skrat]

Perhaps the next storyline has already been laid. Throughout the Geneforge series, there have references to past civilizations that have been either waylaid or gone extinct. These have been referred to as being extremely powerful though much mystery surrounds them. Maybe Jeff can build a plot around a re-discovery of an old hidden race (neither Shaper or Drakon) that has been disturbed by post-war expansion. This could open doors to all kinds of creations and magical beings that are set loose upon the rest of the world and it is up to the Shapers (or Rebels) to defend us from their destruction. They could even be lead by Spectral beings....

I trust that there will be more adventures and conquests, and I will be ready to enlist!

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I think Jeff's endgame involves peace, similar to the Avernum series when the Empire made peace with Avernum. Continuing with that theme, I think the Trakovite ending will happen, and the war will drag on. After even more brutal years of war, people will begin to consider peace on all sides, and the stage will be set for the inevitable lame peace ending.

 

What I would like to see is a Rebel victory. While in real life I would want the Shapers to win so everything could go back to normal, for the game's sake, I want to Rebels to win so everyone can see how horrific a world under their rule would really be.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

I don't want to see Rebel or Shaper victory, I want to see Khryk raise a child of one of the Geneforged-- it would be cool to show that geneforging is inheritable to lead his/her armies in the destruction of the rebels and the shapers.

 

What would be cool is that you wouldn't look like one of the glow in the dark mad canisters users but would probably be just as powerful.

[Alorael at Large]

I think a combination of endings has set the stage for a complete breakdown of society. Traditionalist Shapers, Shapers who don't abide by the rules anymore, rebels, Drakon rebels, human rebels, rebels who think maybe this was a bad idea, Trakovites who aren't in the shadows anymore, and I'm sure the list can go on. No faction really has much power alone anymore, which means alliances, which means a lot of fun playing the diplomat.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't expect that kind of diplomacy in G5. He does expect chaotically fragmented society. What else do the million factions add up to, really? Having factions dissolve as they did after previous Geneforges would be no fun at all.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

In Geneforge 5 we get to get past the Turabi gates into inner shaper lands. In Geneforge 6 we get to first finish Terrestria, then go back to Sucia for the final showdown... The map would be massive over 100 sections... enough to drive Jeff mad.

[Delicious Vlish]

I'd like to see the very last Geneforge game play out like Nethergate.

 

You could play either as a Shaper or a Rebel... Two very different games. Not a choice as you go, but the choice already made from when and WHERE you start.

 

That way you could see both sides of the story.

 

The ending?

 

Dunno. Jeff has sold a brazillion games and I haven't, so I think he'll manage to figure out the ending on his own.

[kenn5]

yup old jeff will figure it out...... right?

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Alorael:
Traditionalist Shapers, Shapers who don't abide by the rules anymore, rebels, Drakon rebels, human rebels, rebels who think maybe this was a bad idea, Trakovites who aren't in the shadows anymore, and I'm sure the list can go on.

This is why there needs to be a 'yourself' faction. What better way to end the series than having the PC gain an impossible amount of power by using the device the game is named for? The ending itself would then be based on whether or not you were nice to serviles, and whether or not you helped proliferate shaping technology.

[rackrmnn]

I'd like to see Geneforge 5 take place in a post-apocolyptic setting. The Rebels win in Geneforge 4, unleashing the unbound. The Shapers respond with their own unstopable, ruinous creation. By the time Geneforge 5 starts, most major cities have been reduced to ruin and people (along with intelligent creations) live in small enclaves, in constant fear that an unbound creation will stumble upon them. Rebels and Shapers no longer exist as organized bodies.

 

The PC could be an ex-Rebel, ex-Shaper, or maybe just someone who stumbles upon a Geneforge. The goal of the game, at least initially, would be one of survival. Think Fallout.

 

I think that setting would make for one awesome game.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

That idea, my good rackrmnn, gets my Emperor's Seal of Approval™.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

That is an great idea. But I think that it shouldn't be survival of only your character, but survival of a community from a major city such as Dillame. You find a G4 Geneforge and use it. Then you use your newfound powers to help your commuity survive. In the end you will have helped to start the rebuilding of the Shaper World, this time with, the lessons of the past, without the Shaping. You will enforce it and no longer shape as you did to rebuild civilization.

[Dikiyoba]

Pssh, Trakovite.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Emp:

Quote:

I think Jeff's endgame involves peace, similar to the Avernum series when the Empire made peace with Avernum. Continuing with that theme, I think the Trakovite ending will happen, and the war will drag on. After even more brutal years of war, people will begin to consider peace on all sides, and the stage will be set for the inevitable lame peace ending.

I certainly hope the above doesn't occur, although it does seem to be Jeff's style to run out of creative genius as he wades through a series.

 

Instead of peace and Shapers giving 100% rights to serviles and humans, I'd rather Geneforge conclude with the Shapers beginning to show a more enlightened attitude towards drayks, humans and serviles. If Shapers on both continents are going to grant complete rights to creations and humans, it will be a slow, labourous process, which will result in the upheaval of the current social order (think of the outlawing of feudalism).

 

If Jeff ends the series with something similiar to 'And the Shapers made the serviles full citizens, and everyone lived happily ever after', I will be just a little disappointed.

 

Quote:

What I would like to see is a Rebel victory. While in real life I would want the Shapers to win so everything could go back to normal, for the game's sake, I want to Rebels to win so everyone can see how horrific a world under their rule would really be.

This is where I'm inclined to agree. I would personally love to see a Rebel victory, and (if you are a pro-Rebel) play a role in attempting to establish a stable, functioning social order. Choices could include:

 

- Forging an alliance between drayk and servile.

 

- Overthrowing the Drakons in favour of a drayk-servile alliance, or vice versa. The attack on the Drakon headquarters could involve an entire drayk-servile army vs. the Drakon minions.

 

- Negotiating with the Sholai (both Loyal and pro-Rebel). From what I understand, the war has ground to a stalemate, and the entry of a new 'superpower' could tip the scales.

 

- A drafting of a 'Rights of Species' (sorry, I can't think of a better title), which will dictate where serviles, drayks, drakons, humans and Shapers stand. There would also be the issue of regulating Shaping activities.

 

- Determining whether Shaper rule returns to the area, or which rebel factions sit in government. Will you try to establish proportional representation (Lebanese style?), or favour one species over another.

[Retlaw May]

I pretty much think that shoali would generally support the current regime for trading purpouses.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Nonsense, the Sholai would want the war to continue so they could sell goods to both sides. Sholai scum, they are next, after the Rebels, of course.

 

I don't know if I could ever see Shapers and Drakons sitting down at a negotiation table together. More likely, also more interesting, would be if the Shapers were forced to ally with the serviles and rebel humans to stop the mad drakons. I can see no happy ending with them in it.

[Student of Trinity]

However the series ends, whether it lasts to G6 or ends with G5, I think it has to end with a bang. We've had four games all ending with major escalations, all of which turned out to lead only to new stalemates. Eventually I think Jeff has to pull out all the stops, and let the PC either crush the Shaper empire for good, or establish it in unprecedented security and wear Ghaldring's guts for garters (of Skulduggery). Or successfully plague both houses and achieve some kind of Trakovite/Awakened dream. Or rule the world personally. Something that people will really want to see happen, finally, after all this time.

[Randomizer]

You start out as a looter. From the beginning you get to decide whether you will be modified by a geneforge to use canisters or take a shaper path and learn things the hard way.

 

ET - I think the drakons and Shapers could sit down at a dining table with the Shapers as dinner. You can almost see the drool of hunger in the opening screen.

[DragonPaladin]

I would like to see a continuation of the current factions, instead of just meshing it all together as was done in A3. I miss the Awakened.

 

On that note, the ending for G4 sets the perfect stage for the revival of the Awakened. Now we've seen how horrific the Drakons can be, and we know how horrific the Shapers are, and the Trak's have no problems letting everyone suffer from their safe hidey holes (Yeah, it's REALLY hard to talk about how horrible shaping is when it's protecting your arse). So right now is the perfect time for the idealistic Awakened to make a come back. The refugees are tired of the constant fighting, and they've seen that the differences between the Shapers and the Rebels are minute at best - both want nothing more then absolute power for themselves at whatever the cost.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I disagree. The awakened were too weak, I think this sets the stage for the Barzites return. With the (either successful or attempted) creation of the Unbound, people will no longer trust the drakons, and there will be plenty of humans that will no longer trust any creations at all. On the flip side, there will be many that have lost faith in the Shaper laws, wishing that their power were less secretive so that common people could actually defend themselves from the constantly more powerful rogues.

 

Hating creations + hating Shaper laws = Barzites.

[Delicious Vlish]

The worst ending would be...

 

A virus created, a sickness, that infects people and takes away their ability to shape.

 

And suddenly, the world is normal again.

[Sudanna]

No. The worst ending is that the drakons go completely insane from self-shaping, kill all of humanity, and roam around, incapable of the intelligence required for Shaping, cannibalistic and insanely powerful.

[DragonPaladin]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
I disagree. The awakened were too weak, I think this sets the stage for the Barzites return. With the (either successful or attempted) creation of the Unbound, people will no longer trust the drakons, and there will be plenty of humans that will no longer trust any creations at all. On the flip side, there will be many that have lost faith in the Shaper laws, wishing that their power were less secretive so that common people could actually defend themselves from the constantly more powerful rogues.

Hating creations + hating Shaper laws = Barzites.

I very much disagree on the Awakened being weak - they're the ones that brought out shaping serviles to give them magic, which plays a pretty important role in G4 (at least, it does if you play a servile like me). What they were, was moderate - and they had no place in the current politics up until the rebellion showed just how dangerous it really was with the Unbound. Before the Unbound, the common people wouldn't have seen any purpose to the Awakened; they were arrogant enough to believe that the serviles would never rebel, or at the very least, wouldn't do it successfully. But now that they've been shown the horrors the Rebels have at stake, this is the perfect time for the Awakened to return - giving the people a moderate group with the good of the people in mind.

As for the Bharzites, I would argue that the Drakons are becoming just that. The Rebels are going to be split between the extremists - the Drakons, who believe in ending Shaper rule at any cost, with little to no care for civilian life - and the moderates - the Awakened, who see that the Shapers are desperate, that the Drakons are out of control, and that the people, the refugees, need someone to stand up for them.

Ellhrah's dream isn't dead. It's just asleep, waiting for someone to rally the serviles and the people together.

[Sticky]

Quote:

Originally written by Skrat:
Perhaps the next storyline has already been laid. Throughout the Geneforge series, there have references to past civilizations that have been either waylaid or gone extinct. These have been referred to as being extremely powerful though much mystery surrounds them. Maybe Jeff can build a plot around a re-discovery of an old hidden race (neither Shaper or Drakon) that has been disturbed by post-war expansion. This could open doors to all kinds of creations and magical beings that are set loose upon the rest of the world and it is up to the Shapers (or Rebels) to defend us from their destruction. They could even be lead by Spectral beings....
I trust that there will be more adventures and conquests, and I will be ready to enlist!

Reminds me of Avernum. New, extremely powerful alien race, hmmm.

I haven't played G4 yet, but I think I'd be likely to agree with Stareye, something fresh would be nice.

[striker]

I wish to see peace for once lolll...no really , i didnt finish geneforce 3 so i dont know what happend to the third shaper...what about a come-back? and he can lead the servil and others...and with some tricery send the drakon against the shaper...they destroy each other...and the geneforge for once and for good. We will have a lot of human alive , some rebel without a job lol and servile happy and free...

Just an idea dont shoot me loll

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by DragonPaladin:
Before the Unbound, the common people wouldn't have seen any purpose to the Awakened; they were arrogant enough to believe that the serviles would never rebel, or at the very least, wouldn't do it successfully. But now that they've been shown the horrors the Rebels have at stake, this is the perfect time for the Awakened to return - giving the people a moderate group with the good of the people in mind.

People don't generally look to peaceful groups to end conflicts. They like to look to the more powerful ones to make their lives the way they used to be. Humans would not believe for a second that a group of serviles, however enlightened, could save them from the horrors of war. Maybe the rebel serviles would, but then again, the Awakened don't have a very good track record, being totally whiped out and all.

Quote:

As for the Bharzites, I would argue that the Drakons are becoming just that.

At first I was thinking 'Barzites don't support creation rights, this is nonsense.' But then I remembered that book Animal Farm and how the pigs started wearing human cloths in the end.

Quote:

Originally by striker:
i didnt finish geneforce 3 so i dont know what happend to the third shaper...what about a come-back?

That third shaper was the player's character. You're not supposed to know what happened to him. Though one theory is he already made his comeback as Shaper Monarch.

[Retlaw May]

I doubt the third character was Monarch; I think it was the Gar... whatever who was the first Shaper captured before your character in G1.... But I digress.

I don't get why people can still side with the Drakons in the Geneforge games. I never have and never will, they are crazy and much worse than the Shapers. My bet is a Rebel victory leading to G5. Damn Drakons killing everyone off, see what happens when you question the Shapers!

[Alorael at Large]

The theory is actually that Monarch is the protagonist of G1, which I find implausible despite having finished no Geneforges besides 4. Protagonists know better to unleash armies at random, and when they want to conquer they do it in person, quickly, and effectively.

 

—Alorael, who attributes much of protagonist success to the ancient save and reload technique.

[Randomizer]

The view that Monarch came from GF1 was based on the types of creations he makes. There aren't the higher ones in GF2.

 

The fact that both sides disown him implies that he wasn't a major character from the earlier games. Of course Shapers lie a lot to cover things up so he could have been one of them. They really have to upgrade those locks when they seal a lab.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I still think he is the PC from Geneforge 3. It could be that he tried to help the Shapers (Monarch wears old shaper robes) but after he used too many canisters (and went insane), they turned on him as well. This would explain why Greta hates him and why Alwan is embarassed about him. Sure he only makes lower level creations in the city, but people keep forgetting he is responsible for all the creations in the high level area as well, including the Titan.

[Upon Mars.]

Listen, the drakons insane ending is not the worst. Because drakons are carnivores and love wealth. Humans are easy meat when unarmed and are the most available around to a drakon they are good slaves and provide wealth, therefore drakons won't kill all of the humans. The only way to bend the human race to there convenience is to make slaves out of them .

Until humans survive that's all right but the slavery thing is going to make a rebellion for sure then it will open a new chapter in geneforge : the drakon war.

[striker]

How about a new race , who want to take the geneforge forcing the drakon and the shaper to be freind . And let say that this new race have a way to make the geneforge stronger and deadly ? so they will have to fight together again their new ennemie , and run against time to stop the new ennemie for making new mosnter that are stronger then anyone else...

[Retlaw May]

Reminds me of the preview for Warcraft 3...

[Alorael at Large]

Introducing a new race to be the focus of the plot is a questionable device. It worked in A2, but the vahnatai weren't the sole catalyst of events until A3. Really, drakons fill the race role quite nicely, and any cooperation is likely to be largely humans vs. drakons with serviles on both sides. There are already reasons for Shapers and rebels to put aside their differences to deal with the Unbound.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't think the Shapers and rebels are capable of cooperating. And if the current factions can't work together, only one thing can occur. Yes, another faction.

[Aequitas]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
I don't know if I could ever see Shapers and Drakons sitting down at a negotiation table together. More likely, also more interesting, would be if the Shapers were forced to ally with the serviles and rebel humans to stop the mad drakons. I can see no happy ending with them in it.

I like it.

And Alorael, is you custom title changing along with your PDN? it seems to be going from Blademaster to Frolicking in Postland.

[Lilith]

It's only Blademaster when he's posting in a forum in which he's a moderator. This is true for all moderators, not just A-dawg.

[Alorael at Large]

It's true of only me, actually. There are no other mods without custom titles at the moment.

 

—Alorael, who remembers when there used to be Blade Masters aplenty. Those were the good old days, back before these newfangled titles and the newfangled refusal to give them to certain individuals.

[Lilith]

Well, okay, so it's true in principle for all moderators, if they didn't all have custom titles except you.

[Alorael at Large]

Whatever happened to Seletine, anyway? He helped me feel like I wasn't so terribly, terribly alone.

 

—Alorael, who can only bear the pain of being a second-class mod by planning his vengeance. Oh, how sweet it will be!

[zellie]

The rebel ending seems unlikely to be used in G5 imo, as it makes the drakons and shapers too much alike. There wouldn't be a moral dilemma of who to help. Both sides want pretty much the same thing, using pretty much the same means.

Therefore, a third faction would have to be introduced to offer another choice, but that seems a little too avernum'ish.

 

Perhaps split factions among the drakons are what we will see, the new generation on one side (universal bad guys) and the older more humane ones on the rebel side. This would also give the rebels the power they need to stand a chance against the shapers - something they would be lacking if the drakons split from them completely.

 

I think the idea of the shapers trying to retake the Ashen islands in G5 makes the most sence.

 

The story could go something like this;

The drakons on the Ashen islands decide to start up a program to redevelop a new ultimate version of the unbound ones. A few of the older drakons see this, and foreseeing the consequences this would have, flee to warn the rebels and the shapers of what’s going on. The shapers immediately launch an assault on Ashen islands, but they are at a severe disadvantage since they don’t have any outposts there, and no idea of where the drakons are hiding, or what they are doing. The shapers ask the rebels for a temporary truce since they need help, and the rebels who are too weak to oppose the drakons on their own, accepts.

 

While the rebels and the shapers share a common goal, they have very different ways of doing things, and this will lead to conflicts. Add to that the usual plotting against each other behind the scene, and I think it’s a fairly good basis for what G5 could be.

[Retlaw May]

Shapers don't use the same means as the Drakons; they would never release something like the Unbound.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

Yes they would says the Rebel ending.