Geneforge 4: "Not a Shaper"

[Slariton]

From the Spidweb newsletter, on Geneforge 4: "And, unlike the earlier Geneforge games, you will NOT play a Shaper."

 

To me, at least, this comes as a welcome change after G3. I'm psyched. So... whaddaya think? Human, servile, or minotaur?

[Inthrall]

Human or minotaur. Not a servile.

 

A servile's plot would go some thing like this: Servile born. Servile plant crops. Servile gain intelligence (somehow)

 

Then: Servile get killed by scared humans/sholai/shapers

 

Or: Servile wins war after many unbelievable plot twists.

[Slariton]

There are lots of examples of serviles who didn't follow those paths. Most productively, the G2 Awakened. If they could modify themselves to use magic, shaping doesn't seem like it would be so out of the question.

 

The Awakened may be gone, but it does seem that Jeff will have to invent some kind of third element, some "other" (much like the Vahnatai in Ex/Av) in order for the story to really progress at all. The war is too massive, the powers involved too great, for anything interesting to happen otherwise. I suppose this could be the Sholai's cue to return.

[Inthrall]

Quote:

If they could modify themselves to use magic, shaping doesn't seem like it would be so out of the question.

 

I disagree. one of the things which 'was' the Geneforge trilogy was the fact that you could join any of the sides. As a magical Servile with an army of creations, I wonder how many Shapers are going to let you join them...

[Timber-Wolf]

I would rather be a dryak then a servile.

[Slariton]

Hmm. Khyryk and Sharon, perhaps, if they decided to grow spines. You're probably right, though. So, barring a minotaur invasion or a truly horrendous Avernum crossover, that suggests either the Sholai or a regular joe.

 

I suppose Jeff could surprise us by replacing the shaping mechanic with something else. I'd sure be surprised...

[Slith Lord]

Quote:

Originally written by Slartucker:
The Awakened may be gone, but it does seem that Jeff will have to invent some kind of third element, some "other" (much like the Vahnatai in Ex/Av) in order for the story to really progress at all. The war is too massive, the powers involved too great, for anything interesting to happen otherwise.

Maybe some creations could get (somehow) too much intelligence and rule some lands like humanoid beings!

[Kelandon]

Like the drakons in GF2?

[Dikiyoba]

You could still have the Awakened. Maybe not a bunch of magical serviles, but a group of disaffected ordinary humans with some intelligent serviles around. The problem with the Awakened is that they have an admirable cause but no power to support it. Which is probably the only reason their cause sounds good.

 

At least the joining the Awakened got decent ending for them in G2.

 

Dikiyoba.

[RAmpaGE]

Well, I had no good expectations for Geneforge 4, but the "Not a Shaper" thing had me sitting up straight and reading the e-mail again. Now I'm looking forward to it.

 

Hopefully, we'll get more of a plot and less combat in the next game.

 

Hmmm... unlikely, since it'll be an all-out war.

 

Bah.

 

Make that just "more of a plot", then. And maybe the opportunity to change someone's point of view without having to rip out their eyeballs?

 

RAmpaGE.

[MagmaDragoon]

Yeah, I read too the news mail... "Not a shaper"?

If you aren't a rebel instead, all the philosophy in the game can disappear? I mean, I will like be a Drakon for example, but by this way nobody probably ask you what do you think of the serviles status, how do you feel under the Shaper's Mighty Power...

 

Well, the Drakons are intelligent, but I think that they primary istinct is kill, kill, must kill someone, just KILL!!!

 

Another question: all the things that I made (and killed) in GF3 for avoid a world-war are useless?

 

One day, I belive we'll start GF5 with a fully-power Shaper...

 

Finally, I think that: in GF4, you will be a boy without family, because they are killed by rogues (what a pity ...), and you will travel (and fight) around the battlefields, looking for a Shaper school for be trained.

 

What do you think of that post, people?

[almondblight]

Well, hopefully it will actually matter in the game. If you are not a Shaper, but can make creations and use magic at the beginning of the game, then it's not so interesting.

[genexile]

For now it seems that the story of GF is the Taker's story... with war and such.

So, we will be:

Drakon

Sholai

Outsider

That's the list.

Drakon will be the 'Shaper', Sholai will be the 'Guardian', and Outsider will be the 'Agent'.

Whaddya think?

Maybe we could replace Drakon with another thing, since it won't be tolerated around shapers.

But i can't think of something other that these 3. Would be awesomely difficult, but also wonderful to do a Gene-vernum.

[RAmpaGE]

I doubt you'll be able to choose a Drakon. They are born too powerful. In RPGs, you have to start with a lot of ground to cover in order to reach decent power - and that goes for Geneforge too, even if it's not that much of an RPG.

 

RAmpaGE.

[Student of Trinity]

I'm betting on the Sholai. But it would be a bit sad to lose the three shaper classes, since they were really pretty different from each other, and made it well worth playing each game three times. So I expect that either Sholai somehow end up having comparably different classes as well -- which wouldn't be so crazy, if that's just how magic works in this world -- or you do something early-ish in the game that effectively turns you into either an Agent, a Shaper, or a Guardian -- perhaps still with some extra Sholai abilities as well.

 

Or maybe you do get to play an Awakened post-servile, who has learned enough shaper arts to perform as one of the three shaper classes, but who is 'not a shaper' in the sense of not being part of orthodox shaper society even initially.

 

Either way, I'm expecting to keep basically the same three shaper classes, but with a few extra touches of chrome. I certainly can't see giving up the ability to shape creations. That's too big a part of what makes Geneforge cool and different.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

Personnally, I hope that you are a minotaur. I don't see what people have against them. They're as random as vahnatai were in Avernum.

[Slariton]

Well, the Vahnatai did get hinted at a lot in Exile before they made their grand entrance in Exile II.

[Spring]

There is the possiblity of something completely new, you know. Being a servile would be too predictable/boring.

[Micawber]

So you're saying a predictable game would be un-spiderweb?

 

I'm predicting we play as human - with the opportunity to become mage, fighter or shaper as the game progresses.

 

EDIT: If not become, then at the very least, recruit.

[genexile]

Completely unpredictable?

We could be a golem.

THAT's unpredictable.

Really, my bet's on Sholai, or Outsider.

I can see the whole scene:

You run your shop. Takers come. They destroy shop. You run. You get some canisters. wow, i'm superman. You run more. You get in trouble with the Shapers. You run some more. You come to a choice: Run or Stop running. Stop running: You get killed THE END. Run: You get killed, but only farther in the Shaper's lands THE END.

GF5 restarts when GF4 left. You are a GHOST! The ghost of your Outsider/Sholai. You haunt people. You get levels. You are happy. Then, Luigi with his vacuum cleaner gets you. Too late to escape THE END.

That story is pretty unpredictable. and then in GF6 you are an Artila.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by genexile:
Completely unpredictable?
We could be a golem.
THAT's unpredictable.

If that happens, you'll have predicted it. Ergo, it's no longer unpredictable.

[Contra]

Most likely we will play as a human who come across Canisters and thus stumble upon the shaper art, and from there becomes entagled in the grand metaplot.

 

..And Ghaldring, that Unsellable Trowel threat still stands.

Leave the minotaurs out of G4.

[Dikiyoba]

The story could be told from the point of view of an unsellable trowel...

 

Dikiyoba.

[Drakefyre]

Perhaps the Shapers invade Sholai lands, or they come to them for help fighting the Drakons, or are chased to Sholai lands by the rebellion, etc.

 

The possibilities are endless. But I really think that they'll revolve around the Sholai - the random appearance in Lord Rahul's keep was not just coincidence.

[Contra]

There were Sholai in Lord Rahul's Keep?

[Jaid]

just one really, iirc.

 

basically, the sholai send someone over to try and find out what the heck happened to the group of sholai that ended up in GF1.

[Contra]

Where is this Sholai located, exactly?

[Spring]

Quote:

Originally written by Micawber:
I'm predicting we play as human - with the opportunity to become mage, fighter or shaper as the game progresses.

Um...you won't be a shaper in GF4, and 'fighter' is kind of like 'guardian', and a mage has been overused. So I doubt it would be one of them.

[Lilith]

Just because you won't be a Shaper doesn't mean you won't be a shaper.

[Student of Trinity]

Or you could be a Shaker, and use enchanted forges and large numbers of sticks to craft elegantly simple furniture.

[Mivayan]

Quote:

I doubt you'll be able to choose a Drakon. They are born too powerful. In RPGs, you have to start with a lot of ground to cover in order to reach decent power - and that goes for Geneforge too, even if it's not that much of an RPG.

RAmpaGE.

But a three feet high baby drakon would work! Parents died, or the vat you were growing in got smashed by a passing adventurer. It would be cute, like a kitten.

[Micawber]

Quote:

Originally written by Spring:

Quote:

Originally written by Micawber:
I'm predicting we play as human - with the opportunity to become mage, fighter or shaper as the game progresses.

Um...you won't be a shaper in GF4, and 'fighter' is kind of like 'guardian', and a mage has been overused. So I doubt it would be one of them.

Duh. You missed the whole point. The new "non-shaper" game is likely to be exactly the same as before, but with a different starting point.

[*i]

I believe there was one, sort of a diplomat.

[Jaid]

Quote:

Originally written by Contra:
Where is this Sholai located, exactly?

sort of near the entrance. towards the library i think is where i found him anyways.

[Controversial]

That sounds gay. The Geneforge series revolves around them. If you can't play them, then the point of the game is ****.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by Canned:
That sounds gay.

Please do not use "gay" to mean "bad" or "foolish." It constitutes mild hate speech (if I may use an oxymoron) and annoys me.

[mok]

I think it would rock if you got to play as a shaped rebel. Like what Lankan becomes if you let him have the canister.

 

Think about it: when you leave him he says something along the lines of "I need time to get used to my power". Maybe you're some dopey fella who finds a canister and gets transformed into something more powerful. And as the games goes on and you gain experience using your powers, you find you can do more and more stuff (like shaping or really getting good at swinging that sword, etc.).

 

* * * * * *

But... my money is on the Sholai.

[Joseph Stalin]

The Sholai are too powerful look at Geneforge 1 they mowed you down until you were a very high lvl.

[Timber-Wolf]

Those Sholai had been using a lot of canisters.

[Joseph Stalin]

The ones in the northwest corner?

[Dikiyoba]

They were also experienced explorers as opposed to, say, an apprentice Sholai. And I never had a problem mowing down Sholai Scouts and not much trouble killing Sholai warriors. Mages and Augmented Shoalai were a different matter, but that's what my vlish were for.

 

Dikiyoba is noticing that a lot of characters in Spiderweb Software games in in -ai. Sholai, vahnatai, slithzerikai...

[Contra]

This whole "Shaped Rebel" thing won't work. That means you have to use Canisters to survive, meaning that you have to grow mad with power, and thus the game becomes very rigid, with only one way to do things.

However, as the war continues, the other magical sects that have been mentioned before (and I have mentioned this before) might very well have somehow gained access to Shaper arts, and studied it without using canisters.

..But of course, that would probably mean that you start out as an "Apprentice" once again. This is a pickle.

In either way, I am actually tired of Canisters by Geneforge 2, and really tired of them by Geneforge 3. The Geneforge world got so much possibility, so many chances of great roleplay. Intra-shaper conflict, sect vs sect conflict, Shaper vs Outsider conflict.

But I know this is too much to hope for, and that Jeff will continue with his original plot. I just hope it will have a new and intresting twist, now that we don't have to play as a Shaper.

[Dikiyoba]

Well, Jeff did say somewhere that he wanted to make G4 very different than A4. Of course, that doesn't mean that G4 will be very different than the other three Geneforges.

 

Dikiyoba thinks that the Shapers should use the gene-viewing eyepieces to make creations evolve faster and easier and put anyone who modifies a human (or is modified) to instant death. No more canisters and an interesting plotline.

[bigbri2k5]

Without shapers how will i justify my butchering of people who disagree with me?

[Contra]

Use the same reasons Sadam, Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot did.

[MagmaDragoon]

Quote:

Originally written by Contra:
There were Sholai in Lord Rahul's Keep?

Yes there are. When you enter, turn left immediatly: the Sholai it's like a Elite Warrior ( it's blue)

[Student of Trinity]

Huh, I had forgotten all about that guy. Makes it sound as though G4 might feature the second Sholai expedition to Sucia Island (or at least, to the Shaper lands).

[Dikiyoba]

It's funny, because in the end text of G1 (if you play pro-Shaper) the surviving Sholai (the ones who don't use canisters) meet with the Shapers, the two cultures interact, and your character actually goes to Sholai lands.

 

Dikiyoba thinks that the biggest downside to G2 and G3 is the forced and rewritten history of G1.

[Chosimba_dup1]

It's possible that the Shapers need to be totally wiped out to make room for wherever the story is going, and so that's why you won't be a Shaper in GF4.

 

Personally I hope that's where it is going. I have no respect for the Shaper Council and think they need to be wiped out for the needed change to come. I'd like to see the Shapers be totally destroyed in GF4, and then have GF5 come out where you personally are reforming the Shapers. As one of the new people remaking the Shapers you'd be at the very top and go turning towns to your side and gaining apprentices (I'm so sick of people calling me an Apprentice in GF3 where I could wipe the floor with them. I liked the power and respect more from GF2 where you didn't remain an Apprentice for long).

 

The Shaper art could be lost and rediscovered by you through a weakened Geneforge that just gives you enough power to start it out, and you have to go find all the old secrets and rebuild the empire.

 

You could still pick any path during the game and have it work out in GF4. The ending you pick to follow in the other games isn't always the ending that the next game is based on.

 

If the Shapers were about to be totally wiped out and destroyed, they may let a learned Servile or other creation work for them to save them, even though they'd probably destroy them after.

 

Or they could make GF4 be their Construction Kit/Blades of so we can make our own GF adventures. I like the Geneforge engine a lot, I don't really like the old Avernum engine so have no desire to play around with their kits.

 

Something new probably has to happen in GF4 to make room for GF5, or just in order to be different a big change is needed. They could make you be just about anything and force it to work with the story, desperate people accept help from many different sources.

 

It's time to wipe the council from the face of the world and make room for a new rebirth in GF5 I think.

 

I guess we all have our own hopes and dreams for the series.

 

I admit I have one more Island to do right now in GF3, but so far I liked GF2 a lot more. It felt like you had more freedom and more affect on the world of things, more choices, and a true feeling of power and change.

 

I haven't seen my first GF3 ending yet though so maybe I'll be let in on some information I don't know soon. I'm unsure how long the last Island takes to do but that's all I have left, so I'll see pretty soon.

[Nick Ringer]

I would play a guard in Vakkiri.

 

"My feet hurt."