Chosimba_dup1

Yeah I might end up giving her magic so she can cast Unlock too and still keep her as my Rogue type. I'll decide on it soon, I have a few other things to work out on character development in my mind before I decide. It was just disappointing to set up a character as a Rogue thinking I'll be missing out on combat skills and miss having a much better character type in the slot, but that this one at least will be able to open all the doors and things for me, to end up finding out that really she won't because a Mage will Tool use is the real unlocker. I guess it's because I'm new to Avernum games and so I started the game and read the description of Rogue and felt that it would be the best at opening things. I see now that I should have researched it before I started, though it still is sad that her main use would actually be bypassed with a magic user who had tool use. Being able to cast unlock on others really would make this work out. My Rogue could still be the best at being a Rogue, while my magic user could just boost the Rogue's skills in that area. That's actually a really great idea that would have been nice to have in the game. Anyway thanks a lot for the replies on this issue. I wish I had read up on things on these boards before I started to go through the game, but I'll make due and make changes as I go to make up for it. I really like the game though so I don't want to seem as if I'm complaining, I just was disappointed by this one thing and was looking for more information about it. Thanks everybody.

Quote: Having said that, I try aim for variety rather than powergaming. Spidweb games have generally been easy enough that you can kill stuff fairly easily without having to resort to calculating which combination of equipment gives you maximum power. I must disagree here, sorry Spiderweb games are easy enough not to worry if you crank the difficulty of them down, but with higher difficulties Spiderweb games are some of the most difficult games ever invented. You have to take every single little advantage point you can get by every little last point if your difficulty is raised. They're easy if you want them to be and set them to easy, but you can certainly play on some of the most difficult levels ever put into gaming too. Still, thanks everybody for the information so far. I'm thinking of going with Shield and Sword type combinations, as I want bonuses more than damage I think anyway. I only have one character that I am trying to decide for this on. Two of them are magic users that need the extra shield defense and do all their damage in magic anyway. One of them is pure Bow all the time. My last one, my poor little Nephilim, is stuck as a rogue and fighter type but I never did decide on what type of weapon to use on her. I've put it off and she mainly has turned into my Mule holding all my stuff and being so over weighed down that she can't attack anyway so I haven't worried about it too much yet but I need to decide soon before I get further into the game. So I just have the one character that will use either sword or spear types, so I don't have one that uses one and one another. She's my main melee character too, and despite that she's a Nephilim and would be better off as a different class or race she's a big part of my role playing and a part of my party family Something still is alluring about the spears, arrg. Anyway thanks for all the information everybody. I'll make a firm decision about it soon and have more information from you all that will help me make it.

Quote: Having said that, I try aim for variety rather than powergaming. Spidweb games have generally been easy enough that you can kill stuff fairly easily without having to resort to calculating which combination of equipment gives you maximum power. I must disagree here, sorry Spiderweb games are easy enough not to worry if you crank the difficulty of them down, but with higher difficulties Spiderweb games are some of the most difficult games ever invented. You have to take every single little advantage point you can get by every little last point if your difficulty is raised. They're easy if you want them to be and set them to easy, but you can certainly play on some of the most difficult levels ever put into gaming too. Still, thanks everybody for the information so far. I'm thinking of going with Shield and Sword type combinations, as I want bonuses more than damage I think anyway. I only have one character that I am trying to decide for this on. Two of them are magic users that need the extra shield defense and do all their damage in magic anyway. One of them is pure Bow all the time. My last one, my poor little Nephilim, is stuck as a rogue and fighter type but I never did decide on what type of weapon to use on her. I've put it off and she mainly has turned into my Mule holding all my stuff and being so over weighed down that she can't attack anyway so I haven't worried about it too much yet but I need to decide soon before I get further into the game. So I just have the one character that will use either sword or spear types, so I don't have one that uses one and one another. She's my main melee character too, and despite that she's a Nephilim and would be better off as a different class or race she's a big part of my role playing and a part of my party family Something still is alluring about the spears, arrg. Anyway thanks for all the information everybody. I'll make a firm decision about it soon and have more information from you all that will help me make it.

I have to make a decision to go either Pole or Melee weapons. I know that the Sword / Dagger route lets you get more defense, but I was wondering specifically for this game which people prefer? Which weapons have the most bonuses and magic imbued in them? Do Daggers and Swords have better magical bonuses than the Polearms have (extra strength, bonus magic damage, etc)? Or do they both pretty much have the same amounts and types of bonuses to them? Will I really be missing out on some great Shield extras later in the game also? I like the extra damage of the Spears, but I'm wondering if I'm going to kick myself in the butt later for missing out on Sword/Dagger bonuses and Shield bonuses. I was unable to find a discussion of this topic here with the Search function, so if this has already been discussed in much detail feel free to point me to the other topic or topics.

I have to make a decision to go either Pole or Melee weapons. I know that the Sword / Dagger route lets you get more defense, but I was wondering specifically for this game which people prefer? Which weapons have the most bonuses and magic imbued in them? Do Daggers and Swords have better magical bonuses than the Polearms have (extra strength, bonus magic damage, etc)? Or do they both pretty much have the same amounts and types of bonuses to them? Will I really be missing out on some great Shield extras later in the game also? I like the extra damage of the Spears, but I'm wondering if I'm going to kick myself in the butt later for missing out on Sword/Dagger bonuses and Shield bonuses. I was unable to find a discussion of this topic here with the Search function, so if this has already been discussed in much detail feel free to point me to the other topic or topics.

Quote: One more thing: it's very, very important to make your Tool Use character a mage. The Unlock Doors spell and the Tool Use skill have a synergistic effect, allowing you to open some doors that you can't reasonably unlock any other way. With Unlock Doors and decent Magery and Spellcraft, you'll only ever need about 15 Tool Use to open everything that can be opened; without Unlock Doors, you'll spend ridiculous amounts on Tool Use throughout the whole game and still be unable to open some doors. So in other words, my Rogue that I made especially for this purpose and who isn't really good at anything else, is far surpassed at this, one of her main abilities, by a Mage? I'm not going to restart and I've already spent almost all my Rogues points in Tool Use, so let me just ask something else instead. What do you think I will have to end up spending in Tool Use on my Rogue in order to make up for it being on a pure Rogue? How high will it have to be total, if the other can get away with 15 with the Unlock spell, how high will I have to go totally on my Rogue in order to open the same stuff? My Tool Use on her is already 11, so I'm not going to abandon it and this is the one task I specifically wanted this character for so I'll keep her and role play it if I have to. I don't care how much it ends up hurting me, she's staying as she is so I just need the information on how much I should end up having to spend. I haven't seen all the information on these boards so if you know what I will end up having to spend, let me know please.

I personally don't want the GF series to end though. Why can't this series continue while they still write other games? The GF series has the most refreshing new take on role playing games I've seen in a long time. The Shapers are very cool and different, sure they come down to a pet user but the whole story and way behind it all is very new and different. It's not "Fight the Evil God and save the World" plot that 99% of RPGs you play have. It's more personal, believable, and fun. I was playing Final Fantasy X last night and thought to myself "Oh, the same old RPG crap as every other game. I really miss Geneforge." So there I am playing this huge budget super graphics RPG that is loved by millions, wishing that I was playing a new Geneforge game instead. As for plots, it's fine for us to speculate and come up with what we'd like to see. It helps show our interest and keep us thinking about the games I think, plus I personally have stated what I've love to see happen myself in a later GF game (After the war is done I would love for the Shapers to be wiped out, and we start out as the person who rebuilds the whole Shaper empire and are the leader. We gather followers and apprentices and turn towns to our side and rebuild it all in our image, we end up the Top Dog instead of little Apprentice. You know what would be even more cool? A town we were able to semi design ourselves as our home base, or put money into it to make it grow bigger or whatever). I guess if we ever get a GF editor we can try to put all these ideas down ourselves into the games, but while I love coming up with ideas and designs, I suck at code and scripts etc and would take forever trying to do it.

I really do have more fun going Loyal or Barzite (Barzite in 2 I loved so much, they followed everything I liked, gaining super power and using all the powers while keeping the serviles and creations down and under you still, and I totally loved their ending). When I say that my character believes that creations were just programmed to act like they can think and they really are not free willed at all, but were made to act that way because of the way they were created, I don't mean I personally think that, that is just what my in game character thinks (my role play excuse for going against them). You could make a servile to think he wants free will and such without him really wanting it, that's just how you programmed him and he has no free will afterall as you put that thought into him yourself. I do realize that this most likely is not the case at all, but again that's just what my characters I play think in the game There's more role playing to be had in these games than most others I've ever played, so I get into it a little more. There can always still be a pay off for whatever path you follow. When I first started as a Barzite in GF 2 I figured I would follow their ways, get to the head of their orginization, and once I take over I could mold the whole thing to my own will. That was my excuse for following the path, but come to find out they were the most loyal to me and really followed everything they said and did, and they were really the only honest ones in the whole game (except for one guy, and you were allowed to kill him for it anyway). Also, in every game the ones that seem like they're fighting for the rights of the creations and such always are doing bad things themselves. You go deep into their lairs and hidden areas and find that they are doing things twice as bad as the shapers ever did. They all have dirty little secrets and bad things they are doing all while looking like they're just wanting to be free on the surface.

I do mostly loyal, except I use full Canisters so those fully loyal wouldn't accept me. In GF 1 & 3 I went Loyal with all Canisters used I ever found. In GF 2 I went Barzite and really loved being one of them. I don't fully believe Shaper rule but I don't believe or approve of the rebel's ways either (they do things at least as bad as the Shapers when you get into their side areas of the games). I personally like the Barzite way and wish they existed in 1 & 3. Sure, I feel slightly bad keeping the serviles and creations down, but they really are our creations. They're not our children, children can't be re-absorbed back into our bodies and don't keep our essense out of our bodies inside them when created and give it back when dead. I also play with my own personal character belief that the creations were made to act like they have a free will and high intelligence but that's just part of their programming and it doesn't really exist in them. It's like making a current computer program to act as if it wants freedom and is intelligent, but under it there is no real will or life it's just a program. I also am "The Good Guy" in most every other game I play so I like to follow a slightly different path here.

Are you using the single Quicksave and Quickload buttons instead of pressing the Escape key and then selecting to save and/or load? There are 14 different save slots you can pick yourself, then one autosave slot, and then one quicksave spot. In all there are 16 save games. You can have as many different games going as you want and still load from any other game. You could have 15 different characters with 15 totally different games going (the autosave would write over itself and couldn't be used manually). Let me know if any of this is confusing or you need more help. I'm in a huge hurry so I'm rushing to write this and it might come out a little confusing. *Warning: *Gameplay Spoilers* on how to do things coming! This contains no Story Spoilers at all, but it does spoil how to finish certain puzzles.* For Darkstone Core, did you kill all the Golems in the southwest and then take the Golem notes? Did you kill the named Drayk in the Northwest named Hsssak and then talk to the Servant Mind that's near him? The named Drayk, Hsssak is right by the Servant Mind. This particular Mind is being temporarily controlled by Hsssak and so it will be red to you and attacking you. You should be getting plenty of hints not to attack or kill the Servant Mind (and you should realize these are the most loving towards the people who made them of all the creations ever and should never kill them for the most part). If you kill the Drayk named Hsssak first, then the Servant Mind will no longer be hostile, he'll turn back to neutral or friendly and you can talk to him and get him to open up stuff. If you did kill the thing, you can never clear that dungeon, but it also has no effect whatsoever on the game ending or the gameplay through the game. It's absolutely fine to leave it red and finish the game. For Creator's Hall, it should give you a hint the first time you enter that tells you what you should be doing in order to open the doors here. I don't know if it's the same for Loyalist and Rebel, I played as Loyal. You have to go back to the Main Army Camp and tell Greiner to help you assault the places. There's a line of quests that leads up to here from Rahul where you're finding out what's wrong with Greiner and then after that's done you give him his orders. The doors are sealed shut until he goes up to help you at that point (when you're a loyalist). For Rebel, I've no idea what line of things gets those doors open. Purification Plant has multiple entrances, but it's good to talk to the Servant Mind in the Southwest first to get him to open some doors. Then if I was you, I'd enter it from the North side coming South, you can get to it from South Keep at the Southeast part of the area. There's this Drawer inside the Purification Plant that is hiding the key you need in order to get through various parts of the level. This Drawer type thing that holds the key is in the middle east of the Purification Plant (that is on the far East side, about the middle though halfway up, a little more to the North than South). Once you get the key it lets you get through certain doors and you need to go to the West and take this west door to go deeper into the plant. Once you're deeper into this Plant, there are these power things you need to deactivate in the Northwest and Southwest part of this area, 4 total, 2 in the Northwest and 2 in the Southwest. When you deactivate those, the quest is done for this area and also it turns off the acid and power things that keep hurting you. This is the only way to turn off the damage in this area is to go as deep as you can into the area first. Put on things that defend you against poisons and acids (you should have plenty that do unless you sold them all). Buff yourself with defenses if you have Blessing Magic and go for the area. You can always wait and do the level later near the end of the game where you will barely take any damage while doing this area too.

Well, if you were unaligned, you had a bad ending at the end of GF2 if you took too many canisters. It was really really bad. In GF3 it didn't matter much and was still a pretty cool ending no matter how loyal you were and no matter how many Canisters you used. I don't want to spoil anything, but GF2 was a mean ending if you used too many canisters if you were unaligned which was pretty close to working for the Loyalists. Does anybody have GF2 save games that they can let me download from somewhere or email to me? I've seen the Barzite using full Canisters ending, the leaving too early and using full Canisters ending, and the Unaligned destroying everybody but using too many canisters ending. I need any endings that don't have canister use, and then the Loyalist full Canister ending. If you can put these up on a website let me know, if you need to email them to me instead also let me know and I'll work on getting you an address to mail them to me.

You'd be the one crushing them though, that's not what you'd want to do for a society you wanted to rebuild because of your admiration for it. 4 would need to be the one where they got crushed. Especially since they say you won't be playing a Shaper, it would be easy to have us be something that was going to destroy the Shaper society. 4 would be based on Crushing, 5 would be based on Rebuilding. These are just hopes and things as usual though, I don't actually expect things like that to happen just it would be really cool for it to. It would be even more cool if we had like at least one city where we could customize it ourselves as we built it up. Choose if it's built with stone or wood, shapes and types of buildings, traps that are set up there (even have us get assaulted and have to to a major defence of it sometime with our own set up turrets and stuff). We'd have this one home base city that we could totally customize what happens, or even one that automatically changes based on our actions. If you're more evil the town reflects this somehow, etc. Now that last part I'm just living in a dream world and going all off imagining stuff, but the earlier stuff about destroying and rebuilding I think could be possible for their storyline that's happening.

Actually I should say that the ending isn't that negative in GF3 for using Canisters really, you mainly shouldn't use them if you just want to roleplay by pure Shaper rules, but that's what's getting them overthrown in the first place. The ending is still good in GF3 when using Canisters when fighting for the Shapers I think. I don't want to spoil anything, but it's totally up to you what you want your endings to say and do. You may want to end up seeing all endings in time. Just know that pure Shapers are against Canisters mostly, but that in GF3 there aren't a lot of hard line Shapers, most all of them are a little bit dirty. In GF2 was where it was more negative for using them if you were a Loyal Shaper. I was a Barzite anyway in GF2 so I needed to use as many Canisters as I could find (I really love that Barzite ending too). This last game had a lot more ill effects from Canisters though while the previous game people mostly only got positive effects. This is probably because the Drakons are making a lot more Canisters for themselves now or other very specific people instead of just in general, and so when people use those that are meant for a specific person or a different race it totally screws them up. I didn't feel the same sense of super overwhelming power using Canisters in GF3 (by way of the story and text I mean). It wasn't as satisfying as the feelings of the Dark Side power like in GF2

That isn't the only bad effect from the Canisters. The Canisters give you awesome power, but they take away your humanity while doing it. Shaping yourself is also against Shaper law, and using more than 6 will affect your game ending. Your ending can be better or worse depending on who's side you are on (It's against Shaper law, for everybody else it helps them gain power and win the war). The endings change slightly because of it, you may like the ending more or less by using them or staying pure. I haven't had a pure ending yet on any of the Geneforge games though, I use every single Canister I find and love my glowing skin and ultimate power. The little fools know to fear me when they see the power emanating right out of my skin and eyes.

More new monsters to summon with greater variety. I was hoping in GF3 if I saved the records about how they were making Golems, that I would later be able to make one of my own. Also I'd like to be able to use others instructions about how to summon and bind Demons, and force control over a Demon to fight for me. In GF4 I want to see the whole Shaper society wiped out. In the other games you can fight against them and depending on your ending it seems as if you mostly do wipe them out (In GF2 I was a God of a God of a God and could wipe out whole cities with a blink of my eye and had plans to totally remove the Shaper council, but the next game follows along the lines of a different ending than the way I play the game). In GF4, the Shaper council and society and all Shapers should be totally wiped out from the planet. The reason for this is to pave the way for GF5. I want GF5 to be us reforming the world in our own image. I want GF5 to be where we remake the Shaper council and society ourselves. We go around to other towns, recruiting them and turning the towns to our side, teaching others and gaining apprentices. We find all the lost Shaper powers for ourself and we become the new top dog/leader of the Council. We gain super power and respect and are at the very top of the totem pole instead of being an Apprentice at the very bottom. We can choose how to rebuild the Shapers, we can be a cruel dictator or work for a fair democracy or various other things. But we turn towns to our side and gain pupils and followers, we are the top person instead of the bottom and we totally rebuild the shattered society in the way we see fit. Since I want to see that in GF5, I need the whole Shaper council and people to be destroyed in GF4.