Well-Actually War Trall Spidweb Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I just wanted to check in and let Avernum fans how things are shaping up for the final game in the series. Things are still looking on track for a late November release for Macintosh. It's a huge world, but I'm almost done with it. I'm getting pretty exhausted, but I'm still kicking out a lot of cool, elaborate dungeons. (For example, I just spent 2 days on an encounter where you escort a band of soldiers through caves infested with gremlins. Rest assured you will face a wide variety of peculiar and lethal practical jokes.) The structure of the game is an overarching storyline, alternating with going out and putting out fires in most of the major locations in the series. Each of these semi-optional quests (you only have to do so many) is very elaborate, with lots of cool scripting, characters, and enemies. Of course, there are also multitudes of optional dungeons, quests, and so on. The tradition of big Avernum games continues. And the demo is unusually large too. Probably not good for business, but it just works out that way sometimes. :-) A beta tester decided that his day wouldn't be complete without going out and unnecessarily panicking everybody, so he wrote that there is a harsh requirement to have food in the game. This is not true. I actually was in the process of strongly dropping the food requirement. You need food every once in a while to remind you what is happening in the world, but this will not be something people will find a hassle. Finding food is tough for most Avernites, but it won't be hard for you. Unsurprisingly, the brigands and bad guys you are hunting tend to be the ones who are hoarding the food. And the ending for Avernum itself is now written. It's, well, it's a very "me" sort of ending, bittersweet, neither triumphant nor utterly disastrous. (Assuming, of course, you don't try to wreak havoc.) I'm really happy with it. So that's it for now. Game still being written. Out soon. Lots of cool stuff. - Jeff Vogel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Spidweb And the demo is unusually large too. Well, that's some good news. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I never had the slightest trouble running low on food even before Jeff nerfed hunger. If you deliberate avoid picking up any food even when it's right there beside the coins and jewels you're grabbing anyway, then I suppose you might eventually find out what hunger does in A6. But you'll have to go out of your way to do it. Heck, some of the food even looks good. You yourself may have more trouble getting hungry than your party does. But knowing that you should hang onto food, and regularly picking it up and carrying it around, does work to keep the famine in your mind. It's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Quote: For example, I just spent 2 days on an encounter where you escort a band of soldiers through caves infested with gremlins. Rest assured you will face a wide variety of peculiar and lethal practical jokes. FTW But Jeff, what about the return of the Cave Cows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 and the children, don't forget about the children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Mmmmmmm, can't wait for more tasty Avernum goodness. I'm having having an absolute blast with 5 so far and if A6 is ANYTHING like A5 or GeneForge 5 I know I'm going to play the crap out of it. Too bad I have to wait for the PC version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I think it'd be cool if the abrupt starving noise from the Exile series came back. I kind of liked having the heck scared out of me...nostalgia ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 And here I was looking forward to practicing cannibalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Heh. Maybe Jeff could make everything drop meat (or, where appropriate, mushrooms) upon death, including PCs. But then Return Life would effectively function as a Create Food spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I don't miss having to gather up party member's items when they die. Although you did have access to items they were carrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Sss-Chah Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 just for my own reference, i was wondering in what year the game takes place? i'm assuming it's sometime around the 880's or 90's. also, the gremlin cave sounds like it'll be an interesting dungeon. i'm looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug fractalnavel Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity ... drop meat ... upon death, including PCs. ... lee-tle packets of soylent green ... "dammit, cordelia - that was my ear!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith And here I was looking forward to practicing cannibalism. Then party should be able to start fire somehow. Originally Posted By: fractalnavel lee-tle packets of soylent green ... "dammit, cordelia - that was my ear!" That's disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Earth2025 Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith And here I was looking forward to practicing cannibalism. Then party should be able to start fire somehow. There are such things as flame spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity Heh. Maybe Jeff could make everything drop meat (or, where appropriate, mushrooms) upon death, including PCs. KoL got here first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Velzan Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 >.< Still dieing of anticipation of A6. Getting bored of anticipation .... Also I return to the forums!!!!!!! End of message.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 @Beta Testers: So can you guys say much about Dual Weapons? Are they gonna dominate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 i got to admit having people drop meat upon death is morbidly creepy even if its realistic. while i doubt most murderers eat their victims, dead bodies are essentialy piles of meat. maybe instead of meat it can be weird meat or grisly meat. you know undeniably food but retaining the nauseating knowledge that it is human (or vahanati) flesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Oooooh, big demo = big overall playthrough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Milla Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Sss-Chah just for my own reference, i was wondering in what year the game takes place? i'm assuming it's sometime around the 880's or 90's. I second this question (I missed the date bar from the first trilogy alot) And hooray for more gremlins. But about the ending, will there be multiple endings or one main ending which will have different bits of text depending on what you did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Obviously A5 happens somewhere between 20 and 50 years after A3, as there are numerous references to Empress Prazac being "no longer young" and having all the original settlers of Avernum dead of old age (Solberg excepted). I've been wondering how many years/decades this actually is since the in-game Calender disappeared on us and all time frames given are vague in the extreme, usually along of the lines of "oh, it's been a few decades since then," or the ever-popular, "oh, that was such a long time ago in Avernum's history." Also, I'm still hoping Jeff brings the party-wide Reputation stat back in some form or another, but I'm not holding my breath too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug fractalnavel Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Earth2025 ... That's disgusting. or, um - tasteless ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity Heh. Maybe Jeff could make everything drop meat (or, where appropriate, mushrooms) upon death, including PCs. But then Return Life would effectively function as a Create Food spell. Someone should figure out how to make chitrachs edible and delicious. (Maybe like really weird lobsters or something?) Then the adventurers of Avernum shall have their glorious, glorious revenge. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 What will happen to the all GIFTS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 They are still around and say that, "You're cute." Dual wielding isn't quite like it was in Exile. Jeff has tweaked it a bit, but with battle frenzy or speed plus enough quick action you can get up to 8 hits per round. I'm still looking for the extra action point item so I can get even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 We had a long investigation & discussion of this on EE some time ago. The conclusion, basically a best fit line for a number of small pieces of evidence, was: (Given that X1 = 817, X2 = 823, X3 = 833) A4 = 855 A5 = 870 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Hrm, only 50 (ish) years from A1 to A5? That doesn't seem long enough given that the originally banished people could still be alive in their 80's and A5 makes it pretty clear that we're supposed to be many generations into Avernum's history, with there being grandkids or even great-grandkids to the original "settlers". Plus I remember there being a mention of how your Empire troopers in A5 wouldn't have been treated so poorly by the Avernites "just a century ago" again implying that Avernum is at least 100 years old by now, possibly more. Of course, if that were the case, A5 would have to take place 45+ years after A4 and anyone who remembers the Time of the Shades would have to be at least 55 years old, and this isn't the case (see the Nephil in Blackchasm Fort who talks about the events of A4 with you). Sigh, I guess there's not enough evidence one way of the other, but it's still sorta fun to speculate. P.S. It's probably way too late by now in the game's development by now, but I always wanted to suggest to Jeff that he add to the information given about a foe when you right-click on it in combat. I'd love to be able to click on the monster I'm beating on and see "Hostile So-and-So, Health 318/495, Slowed, Weakened, Cursed." You know, instead of guessing when my debuffs were wearing off. The little floaty Xs in A5 were a good start but when you nail a monster with Daze, Slow, Leg Sweep, and Shield Breaker over the course of 2-3 rounds, you have no idea which one is wearing off when: the Xs remain so long as ANY of the four debuffs remain, and the game never tells you what combination the Xs represent at any given time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Jeff has somewhat color coded and size differentiated enemy status conditions. You really have to keep track of the important ones yourself, but dazed are frozen, charmed have large red Xs, weaken are small red xs, poison and acid are green characters, ... You don't get to see health, so for common monsters you have to learn by killing a few and keeping track of average health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Excalibur There are such things as flame spells. Char1 and 2 (Fighters) collect wood and then say to char 3 (or 4) whois Mage: Hey, cast a fireball to lite those woods. Mage does as asked and whoom, woods are burned to ashes. Ultima had ignition spell which was used to lite candles etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 But at least you can see the percentage of health. When a monster is wounded, you probably saw it happen, so you have an idea of how much it took to bring it down as far as it is. But when you first meet a new monster you have no idea how much health its full red line represents. Ah the joy of Torment play, when you whack the horrible boss for enormous damage and its health line shrinks — imperceptibly. I speak of Jeff's recent previous games, and reveal nothing about A6 one way or the other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk The Knight Who Said Ni Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Wow, fractalnavel shouldn't have to worry about ze demon of good taste. Just kidding. I think BOA had a good system of it green- friendly, red- hostile. However that's irrelevant now with the Genforge-Avernum hybrid. Ni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity But at least you can see the percentage of health. When a monster is wounded, you probably saw it happen, so you have an idea of how much it took to bring it down as far as it is. But when you first meet a new monster you have no idea how much health its full red line represents. Ah the joy of Torment play, when you whack the horrible boss for enormous damage and its health line shrinks — imperceptibly. I thought you could use the look command on an NPC to determine how many hp it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Yeah, you can, they just started talking about status ailments and somehow drifted to hp status display. Maybe randomizer meant they should have numbers instead of bars, but I don't see how that would have worked with numbers being hard to see as the background shifts its colour very often so you have to code a something that would change the colour of the number according to what is the colour of the background or NPC one step above the character. Or maybe in torment right-click doesn't give you the current or max hp of the right-clicked, don't know. the only way I'm gonna play torment is if I know I'll get more xp out of it, I'm here for the story. On a different subject, is it possible to make the druid build have the aspect of the beast spell? or maybe each character type have a special with the Custom only have a bit more starter skill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Someone should figure out how to make chitrachs edible and delicious. (Maybe like really weird lobsters or something?) Then the adventurers of Avernum shall have their glorious, glorious revenge. Get a good fire going, Diki; I'll get some barbecue sauce and the bodies of some of the nastier chitrachs. Vengeance will indeed be sweet. Originally Posted By: Randomizer Dual wielding isn't quite like it was in Exile. Jeff has tweaked it a bit, but with battle frenzy or speed plus enough quick action you can get up to 8 hits per round. I'm still looking for the extra action point item so I can get even more. Oh happy happy joy joy! My buzzsaws will be back and better than ever! Now all I need is some decent armor...(rummages through pack). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Do enemies have to be dead for me to eat them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith Do enemies have to be dead for me to eat them? Only if you don't want to risk losing teeth when it runs away pulling the appropriate limb, tentacle or other appendage out of your mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Do not get Thuryl started on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Marak: X1 was not the beginning of Avernum. The first exiles were in 767 by our reckoning. Here's a reduced, briefer version of the timeline: * 763 — Hawthorne II becomes Emperor * 767 — Exile used as prison by Empire * 776 — The first members of the Five are exiled; Tower of Magi built with first Triad of Erika, Patrick, and Solberg * 777 — o Kingdom of Avernum founded by Micah o Sss-Thoss makes pact with Grah-Hoth. * 777 - 817 — First Slith War * 779 — The Five lead Avernum in an attack on Akhronath and seal Grah-Hoth in Skarragath * 780 Avernum takes the Great Cave and founds the Castle * 791 — Hawthorne III becomes Emperor * 810 — Linda and X replace Erika and Patrick on the Triad * ~813 — Krizsan Province settled * 816 — Anastasia's nephilim steal the gold necklace from Formello; Solberg flees Tower of Magi * 817 — o Linda summons Adze. o Second Sss-Thsss slain and Grah-Hoth defeated by Hawthorne's Assassins. o Hawthorne III assassinated by Erika Redmark and Hawthorne's Assassins. Prazac I becomes Empress; Garzahd acts as regent. * 818 — Mahdavi replaces Linda on the Triad * 820 - 821 — Exploratory Empire forces steal Crystal Souls, destroy Lost Bahssikava, build Kothtar, etc. * 822 - 824 — Empire-Avernum War * 822 — Vahnatai Resting ends; Empire conquers Abyss * 823 — Barriers afflict Exile; Cotra and mass teleporter destroyed; Crystal Souls rescued; Garzahd assassinated by Empire War Heroes * 824 — Vahnatai reinforce Avernum; Empire withdraws * 831 — Upper Avernum settled by Avernites * 832 — o Plagues of Valorim set loose by Rentar-Ihrno; Keep of Tinraya destroyed o First party of Surface Explorers recruited by Unspecified Services * 833 — o Tower of Magi disaster. o Surface Explorers destroy Plagues of Rentar-Ihrno, who kills Erika Redmark; Reconciliation between the Empire and Avernum * 834 — Kelner and Seletine replace Mahdavi and Solberg on the Triad * 836 — o King Micah dies and the Council of Avernum assumes control. * 838 - 848 — Second Slith War * 846 — Starrus becomes King of Avernum * 855 — Rentar-Ihrno enacts retribution against Avernum and is defeated by the Shade-Killers * 870 — Darkside Loyalists assassinate Prazac I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Oskar Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity Heh. Maybe Jeff could make everything drop meat (or, where appropriate, mushrooms) upon death, including PCs. But then Return Life would effectively function as a Create Food spell. Well maybe to use return life you would require a certain amount (equal to the weight of the character you want to ressurect?) of meat on hand? Or maybe you would need "two arms, two legs, a torso and a head", giving you an actual reason to kill civilians. I always wondered why Return Life was a "good" priest spell, and not vile necromancy. Now that I think of it you could kill somebody and take their face, adding for interesting story arcs... I just realised that this seems a little macabre and probably wouldn't be acceptable to put in a game to my defence I've been playing alot of dwarf fortress lately (just finished burying the third tax-collector they sent me in my walls... while he was still alive). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Ahh, nice timeline, very informative So it does make Avernum over a century old - and puts Solberg's age into a clear light; without his "skills" he'd be long, long dead by now. By decades. I hope we get to fight a Corrupted/Enraged/Crazed, Fully Undead Solberg in A6. Hero of Avernum or not, when was the last time you saw an intelligent, friendly undead? That's right, never. They might pretend to be friendly or helpful at first (that Vampire that wants you to kill some Ogres for him in A3 comes to mind), but they always betray you or attack you in the end. I don't foresee Solberg being the only good egg in the history of Lichdom, and there are serveral text comments in A5 that come right out and say that using Mage skills to extend one's life never turns out the way the recipient thinks it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Legitimate intelligent, friendly undead: - Prince Hrothar, Avernite mage-warrior turned into a lich by Tower of Magi folks to guard Grah-Hoth's imprisoning bottle, seen in A1 That said, I hope you are right. Would make for a fitting piece of the finale. Bonus points if you can only kill Solberg by Minddueling, but that will never happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Morog in Zha-Khazi Run is intelligent and, if not outright chipper and welcoming, at least completely happy to deal with you. The fact that Morog also tries to weasel out of paying just shows that being undead doesn't mean any loss of business acumen. —Alorael, who can think of many fitting ends to the story of Solberg. Eaten by demons? That he summoned? Using Cheeseball as a sacrifice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Alright, fine, a few (very, very few) examples of "friendly" undead exist but I'd still like to have to fight Solberg after he finally snaps because of, oh, take your pick: the stress of "helping Avernum" becomes too much, or he's bitter over the failure(s) of Tranquility, or he's finally given up on everything and the seeds of insanity planted when he was confined to his remote tower finally blossoms, or the death of Cheeseball VII, Esquire, or well, take your pick, really. Plenty of valid reasons for Solberg to finally lose it and finally do/plot something that is detrimental to Avernum. Speculation is fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I hope it does not come to the need of using solberg as a enemy. I ( as weird this sounds even to me ) would rather see a third Rentar-Ihrno based game then see solberg turn against avernum in a weak plot twist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Lord Bob Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Hey, Solberg loves Avernum! Loves it so much he has to kill it so it can never hurt itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Khoth Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Zombie Solberg falls in love with Hraithe Rentar-Ihrno and they destroy Avernum together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Originally Posted By: Khoth Zombie Solberg falls in love with Hraithe Rentar-Ihrno and they destroy Avernum together. And adventurers (aka we) get help from Erika The Angel to kill those 2 and save Avernum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 another question, could you incorporate nonlethal damage into the game? There are many cases where I'd have rather beat my enemy senseless rather than outright kill him, shackle him and drag him into the local mayor's office. The most prominent example is the guy in front of exodus who gives you trouble. Instead of killing him you might drag him to vikas's office and let him deal with him anyway he pleases. Or bringing dorikas to redmark alive so as to allow redmark to publicly execute him. side note: Did you know that nephilim is Hebrew for giants or sons of angels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 The famous reference to the nephilim reads in the King James Version, "There were giants in the earth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Originally Posted By: avatar42 another question, could you incorporate nonlethal damage into the game? There are very few times where you have a nonlethal option. Shankar's quest with her ogre servant has that as a possibility depending upon how much damage you do in a round. Too much and he dies before surrendering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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