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U.S. Election Day, 2016


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Poll: U.S. Presidential Election, 2016 (38 member(s) have cast votes)

Did you vote in the 2016 United States presidential election?

  1. Yes (23 votes [60.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.53%

  2. No (not an American citizen) (9 votes [23.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.68%

  3. No (citizen, but not eligible) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. No (abstained) (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  5. No (other) (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

Whom did you vote for, or would have voted for, in the 2016 United States presidential election?

  1. Hillary Clinton (Democratic) (22 votes [57.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.89%

  2. Donald Trump (Republican) (5 votes [13.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.16%

  3. Gary Johnson (Libertarian) (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  4. Jill Stein (Green) (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  5. Other (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  6. Nobody (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  7. Don't know (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

What is your political affiliation in the U.S., or what would be your affiliation?

  1. Democratic Party (13 votes [34.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.21%

  2. Republican Party (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  3. Independent / Nonpartisan / Unaffiliated (13 votes [34.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.21%

  4. Libertarian Party (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  5. Green Party (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  6. Other (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  7. Don't know (4 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

Which of the following most closely matches your opinion of the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton?

  1. Very Positive (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  2. Somewhat Positive (7 votes [18.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.42%

  3. Neutral (7 votes [18.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.42%

  4. Somewhat Negative (9 votes [23.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.68%

  5. Very Negative (13 votes [34.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.21%

  6. Don't know (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Which of the following most closely matches your opinion of the Republican candidate Donald Trump?

  1. Very Positive (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Somewhat Positive (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  3. Neutral (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Somewhat Negative (7 votes [18.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.42%

  5. Very Negative (29 votes [76.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.32%

  6. Don't know (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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Vespucci Vespucci

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 05:06 PM #71 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostDikiyoba, on 14 November 2016 - 12:08 AM, said:

Clinton, of course, identified two baskets of Trump supporters.

That Trump supporters instantly identified themselves as the deplorables they were rubbing shoulders with, lent support to my theory at the time that the election was fundamentally between "an entertaining guy" and "your mom".  If a well-known missus in your neighborhood was running for high office, no matter how long she had been in politics, people would still scoff, "Be serious!  Her?  I *know* her!".  I wouldn't dare project how the neighborhood would vote in the end, but I do not think Americans took the run-up to the election seriously, they just put on a melodrama for each other.

Have there been any polls of how many people don't believe the election was for real?

Dikiyoba Dikiyoba

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:36 PM #72 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Quote

But in politics (and advertising, and some other areas) everyone who communicates is very aware of how their words may or may not be interpreted.  (And very, very aware of the potential for sound bites to be taken out of context.)  Saying things that hit the right notes and don't hit the wrong ones is clearly part of the job.  If Clinton's point got lost and a lot of people interpreted it as her dumping on a large part of the country, I wouldn't hold it against her as a person, but I absolutely would blame her (and her team) as a professional politician.

I might look at it differently if it were something she said in the course of actually doing something -- at an office meeting, or trying to get legislation passed, or just in a conversation at the supermarket.  But these were prepared remarks that were part of an election campaign, i.e., their primary purpose was to hit the right notes and not hit the wrong ones.

tl;dr -- you can't blame crowds for behaving in predictable ways.  (You can encourage the individual to get out of the herd, but we are no longer talking about politics at that point...)
But then you're essentially demanding that Clinton needed to 1) run a perfect campaign (which is impossible) and 2) never take risks ever for fear of giving the media soundbite material. Plus most of the people taking umbrage at the out-of-context deplorables soundbite also had no issue with any of the many, many terrible things Trump said. Talk about double standards!

Dikiyoba.


Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 05:20 AM #73 U.S. Election Day, 2016

I'm not "demanding" anything.  And I'm certainly not holding HRC to a different standard from Trump.  Trump clearly was not concerned with hitting the wrong notes.  Those notes still impacted him, for better or for worse: and probably worse, given that turnout was on the low side amongst Republican voters, too.  What I'm asserting is basically two things:

1) Politicians and their teams get to choose what they say
2) The reaction of the public to what they say is what it is.  It might not always be 100% predictable, but it doesn't come out of nowhere, and we can make guesses about it: that's what politics is.  It's not like rolling a die, where you can't make any useful predictions about what the impact will be.

I'm not saying that no politican should take risks when speaking.  But if those risks fail, well, that was their call, which risks to take.  On the flip side, if they succeed, that was their call to take those risks.
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Posted 18 November 2016 - 04:59 PM #74 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Poor Gary. No love for the libertarian.
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Posted 19 November 2016 - 12:28 AM #75 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostSchoolin, on 18 November 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

Poor Gary. No love for the libertarian.

He was literally incompetent. Had no grasp of foreign issues, generally a poor communicator and was essentially a single issue person trying to masquerade as multi-issue (issues which he didn't demonstrate any understanding beyond a surface level).

So yeah, pretty [censored] candidate. Still better than Jill 'Screw-dem-vaccines' Stein I suppose.

Owenmoz Owenmoz

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 02:31 AM #76 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostBlxz, on 19 November 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Still better than Jill 'Screw-dem-vaccines' Stein I suppose.

Alright. Never knew she was an anti vaxxer. Im sorta honour bound to publicly shame her if she is. Source?

TriRodent TriRodent

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 06:44 AM #77 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostOwenmoz, on 19 November 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

Alright. Never knew she was an anti vaxxer. Im sorta honour bound to publicly shame her if she is. Source?

As a MD she at least acknowledges the usefulness of vaccines, so not an anti-vaxxer per se.  However apparently one of her pet theories is one that most anti-vaxxers believe too so that's probably where the accusation came from.

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 06:46 AM #78 U.S. Election Day, 2016

She's not an anti-vaxxer.  She is militantly anti-pharmaceutical companies, which has led her to say some things that were not as clear on the issue as would have been politically astute.

I have almost never seen people flock to the tarring and repudiation of a candidate as quickly and gleefully as I saw mainstream Democrats flock to the attacks on Jill Stein this year, and it was pretty much out of nowhere.  Don't get me wrong, she has her flaws, but I find that sort of dynamic inherently suspicious.

At least amongst my acquaintances, I noticed that it was the same people who insisted on the following three things at different points in the election cycle:

1. "Bernie Bros" are representative of Bernie supporters in general
2. Jill Stein is an anti-vaxxer
3. Nate Silver is saying he's less confident of a HRC win than other analysts only because he wants to create drama and drive website traffic
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Kelandon Kelandon

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 07:51 AM #79 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Jill Stein did support a GMO ban.
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Tyranicus Tyranicus

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 09:10 AM #80 U.S. Election Day, 2016

She's not an anti-vaxxer, but she did say that wifi causes brain damage, and she has never held any kind of political office.
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Owenmoz Owenmoz

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 09:24 PM #81 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Alright, so... On the news article she says they should be approved by people we can trust.
While i understand her anti-pharmaceutical company stance, and understanding of the evils of lobbyism. She should know that.
1 vaccines are approved internationally. The world health organisation oversees that, and there are some other quality monitors. Like the article says, creation of vaccines is a long process. Relatively few new ones were made since 90s. Not because there are no experiments on that, but because they fail. Even so; lobbyism is NOT legal throughout the world.
2 even if the pharmaceutical companies were corrupt and self serving(which they are, i mean seriously every time i read the price of medicine over there i fume inside) whats the alternative to that? Unfortunately those companies have a name and reputation. Would you trust a world renowned doctor who is also an alcoholic gambler, or a recent graduate with next to no field experience to do the work. But he's also nice and honourable. Before she starts going on that line of thought and publicly fueling people's paranoia. She should present a viable and trustworthy alternative. If you overthrow a government without a reliable alternative all you give rise to is anarchy.

I mean. Sure she's not an antivaxxer. But she just gave those people more ammo for their militant ignorance. Sorta why i'd rather have a politician who does not "say it like it is" and thinks carefully on the effects of their words before uttering them. Unfortunately the masses can't really be trusted.

Anyway on GMO's i study genetics. Honestly, so far as i can see they are safe(unless the responsible company is grossly incompetent). Actually safer than "organic" food thats bathed in  fertilisers and pesticides. So on it being healthy i dismiss concerns. So far i haven't seen a truly valid one. But they *can* be ecologically harmful, and due to gmo monopoly, considerably expensive(again, its a *can*). Its a complicated number of factors that add to it. I can explain further if im asked to. But while I'm iffy about banning since the ecological damage is significantly reduced due to sterile plants so grounds are there but they are short and remove room for research advancement. I don't get why there is such a strong anti labeling sentiment. I mean whatever your reasons you should be able to choose what you eat. Plus being sketchy on that does add to general lack of trust in gmo's.

In any case i refrain from doing the. "Shame. Shame. Shame." Routine but she really should research on what she says before saying it. So should everyone.


Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:44 AM #82 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Presumably, though, we can all agree that maybe regulatory agencies should not be stacked with people closely associated with the very industry giants they are supposed to be regulating.
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Posted 20 November 2016 - 07:24 AM #83 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostCleopater, on 20 November 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Presumably, though, we can all agree that maybe regulatory agencies should not be stacked with people closely associated with the very industry giants they are supposed to be regulating.

That we can agree with. Still not applicable to vaccines doe. In any case its a bit complicated to have regulatory agencies  whose people were not at one point affiliated with the industry giants. They sort of do have monopoly  or close enough on science. A good alternative would be having the government absorb/nationalise anything related to health. Because health care is sort of the government's responsibility. Plus implementation of a drug or treatment wouldn't depend much on financial success as there would be a budget fed by tax money. But that too idealistic.

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 07:33 AM #84 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostOwenmoz, on 20 November 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

But that too idealistic.

Sadly yes.  We're too far down the road with such companies being in private industry (making/skimming billions of dollars) for it ever to be nationalized.  When there are billions involved, it's FAR cheaper to spend several million on lobbyists who in turn will drop thousands in reelection money on as many Congressmen (or senior aides under the table) as it takes to throw up enough roadblocks to kill the idea.

The really disgusting part about that isn't that Congressmen are willing to sell out the nation's health, but that they're willing to do so so cheaply....

Dikiyoba Dikiyoba

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 05:55 PM #85 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Fun fact: There was an anti-vaccination movement in Britain for the entire 1800s after the development of the smallpox vaccine in 1796. You know, the disease that had a thirty percent mortality rate, if you were lucky. There were at least two smallpox epidemics in Britain during this time. The arguments even sounded similar: vaccinations weren't safe (technically true, since the process wasn't totally sterile and vaccination could and did cause infections of different diseases, but risk was low compared to, you know, smallpox), against God, keep the government out of my business (smallpox vaccination was mandatory), vaccinations would give you syphilis...

Dikiyoba.

Owenmoz Owenmoz

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:56 AM #86 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostTriRodent, on 20 November 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:



Sadly yes.  We're too far down the road with such companies being in private industry (making/skimming billions of dollars) for it ever to be nationalized.  When there are billions involved, it's FAR cheaper to spend several million on lobbyists who in turn will drop thousands in reelection money on as many Congressmen (or senior aides under the table) as it takes to throw up enough roadblocks to kill the idea.

The really disgusting part about that isn't that Congressmen are willing to sell out the nation's health, but that they're willing to do so so cheaply....

A communist revolution could solve that. Sadly no one is really willing to evenly distribute wealth.

Quote

dikyoba explains on anti vaxxers in Britain in the 18th century

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:43 PM #87 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostDikiyoba, on 20 November 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

Fun fact: There was an anti-vaccination movement in Britain for the entire 1800s after the development of the smallpox vaccine in 1796. You know, the disease that had a thirty percent mortality rate, if you were lucky. There were at least two smallpox epidemics in Britain during this time. The arguments even sounded similar: vaccinations weren't safe (technically true, since the process wasn't totally sterile and vaccination could and did cause infections of different diseases, but risk was low compared to, you know, smallpox), against God, keep the government out of my business (smallpox vaccination was mandatory), vaccinations would give you syphilis...

Dikiyoba.

Didn't the first vaccine involve rubbing the crushed up flakes from other people's smallpox sores on your skin? (or maybe it was cow pox?)

Either way, I can imagine some pretty stiff opposition to that now even with all the public knowledge of how good vaccines are and how they work. Back then, ugh. I'm surprised they got anyone to try it.

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:56 PM #88 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Both, kind of. Variolation, taking material from smallpox sores and injecting it to produce a milder form of smallpox and immunity, was the first immunization method, and quite possibly ancient. Vaccination, using cowpox instead of smallpox, was the innovation of the late 18th century, and dropped the risk of getting sick and dying considerably. But yes, it's still rather disgusting if you think too hard about it.

—Alorael, who thinks the getting people to do it was much easier when lots of people died of smallpox. Like measles now, or polio; if you've never seen them, they're a lot less scary and the idea of skipping immunization feels more reasonable.

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 11:22 PM #89 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostCrackings, on 23 November 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

if you've never seen them, they're a lot less scary and the idea of skipping immunization feels more reasonable.

I look at it the same way as stealing rocks from a national park or bits of the Colosseum when on holiday - essentially harmless provided you are the only one doing that.

Once lots of people stop vaccinating then the proverbial [censored] hits the proverbial fan.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I do not condone stealing bits of the Colosseum. You are NOT the only one doing it so you are participating in its destruction while simultaneously lowering the value of my stolen chunks.

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 03:26 AM #90 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Posted Image
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Posted 25 November 2016 - 05:02 PM #91 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Herd immunity helps, but it's still cold comfort if you or your child is the unlucky one who gets sick.

Get your shots.

—Alorael, who spent a while a couple of nights ago being ranted at about, among other things, kickbacks he was getting for vaccines. He would very much like these kickbacks. Also not to be yelled at at 2 am about how cushy his job is.

Tyranicus Tyranicus

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:28 PM #92 U.S. Election Day, 2016

If it had been at another hour, would it have been alright? :p
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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:27 AM #93 U.S. Election Day, 2016

It would have been less bad. Look, I'm literally being paid to be yelled at. I can take some yelling. But when I have to give up sleep for that privilege, well, the scales are a bit rebalanced.

—Alorael, who rarely gets that kind of quality interaction in daylight hours. It's significant, p < 0.01.

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 07:54 PM #94 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Are you allowed to yell back?

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 08:02 PM #95 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Some day you'll be old enough to have minions that they can yell at instead of you.  :)
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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:07 PM #96 U.S. Election Day, 2016

I do have minions. My minion was driven back by ire and I was sent in.

—Alorael, who isn't allowed to yell back. He is allowed to calmly tell people to behave like adults. It's sometimes surprisingly satisfying.

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 12:30 AM #97 U.S. Election Day, 2016

See how easily I derailed the conversation? That is how Trump won.
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Posted 27 November 2016 - 02:22 AM #98 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostFact Put at 25m, on 26 November 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:

I do have minions. My minion was driven back by ire and I was sent in.

—Alorael, who isn't allowed to yell back. He is allowed to calmly tell people to behave like adults. It's sometimes surprisingly satisfying.

Any job that doesn't allow you to yell at people incoherently and chase after them with a teaspoon isn't cushy.

In retrospect maybe it was a good idea to have given up my pursuit in psychology.

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 11:14 AM #99 U.S. Election Day, 2016

It looks like a recount is happening in three states, thanks to Jill Stein's organizing and fundraising. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Do you guys think we have a chance to avert a Trump/Pence administration? I don't know many of the details.
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Posted 27 November 2016 - 11:35 AM #100 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Unless they can show votes at the polling places weren't counted, it will depend on challenging votes that were thrown out.  It's not like Texas where electronic machines would change the vote because of voter's not following the instructions.
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Posted 27 November 2016 - 11:35 AM #101 U.S. Election Day, 2016

I don't know the details either, but I think that if it had a realistic chance of changing the outcome then the democratic party would be funding it, so no.

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:57 PM #102 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Yeah, it is highly unlikely to change the results in any of those states.
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Posted 28 November 2016 - 10:52 AM #103 U.S. Election Day, 2016

In all fairness, the Clinton campaign is joining in on the effort in Wisconsin.
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Posted 28 November 2016 - 12:06 PM #104 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Because it's happening anyway and it would look dumb for them to turn their back on it, not because it is likely to succeed  They even released a statement (IMHO, by far the clearest, most coherent, and most logical-sounding statement I ever heard from them) talking about all the different avenues they looked into and explaining why they did not initiate the process themselves: it's a lost cause.
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Posted 28 November 2016 - 01:41 PM #105 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Trump said a recount is a waste of time and money, yet he also said he lost the popular vote because of "millions of illegal voters."
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