Know anything about self defense?

[Enraged Slith]

I enjoyed, for the first time in my life, the strong sensation that I was being followed by multiple people. I would have normally assumed that they were simply walking in the same direction as me, but they seemed to be reacting to what I was doing and I got the paranoid feeling that they were talking about me (it was also dusk). When the people ahead of me disappeared around a bend, one of them faked breaking into a run (or tripped), which cause me to jump.

 

Provided they weren't adept athletes, I think I would have been fine if my suspicions turned out to be true, but it made me think about self defense and how helpless I would be if I couldn't escape from a dangerous situation. Does anyone have any expertise in this matter?

[Sudanna]

Buy a knife.

 

Fun stuff.

[Dantius]

I'd recommend dropping a few hundred k a year on some good bodyguards. That should keep you safe from just about anything.

[Alorael at Large]

You can take self-defense classes or martial arts classes that focus on the martial, not the arts (see also: Krav Maga), but fighting multiple people at once is not a winning proposition unless you are highly skilled. Being armed helps, but only if you know what you're doing and they aren't unarmed and don't know what they're doing.

 

—Alorael, who leaves out firearms. They tend to even things out fast if you have good reflexes and are willing to shoot first. Otherwise, more of the same, really. What works best? Don't get backed into a corner by one or more thugs. Hope the social contract holds.

[Enraged Slith]

The problem with things like knives and firearms is that if they don't end up getting you killed, you'll have a very difficult time of arguing why it was necessary to use them.

[Denizen of Terrestia]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

I'd recommend dropping a few hundred k a year on some good bodyguards. That should keep you safe from just about anything.

That seems like a good idea, but seems expensive.

You should ask the person who is attacking you if this is what they really want to do, as you have professional martial arts training, and then fight!

[Masquerade]

That is why I'm glad that im friends with two guys from the medieval society, not only can they woop *** in hand to hand combat, but they can stab people with swords too!

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

I enjoyed, for the first time in my life, the strong sensation that I was being followed by multiple people.

i don't see what was so enjoyable about it

[Tracer Bullet]

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

The problem with things like knives and firearms is that if they don't end up getting you killed, you'll have a very difficult time of arguing why it was necessary to use them.

Don't worry, I know Tiger, Crane, and Snake. (But left the school before I was taught Hawk) I'll be fine.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Denizen of Terrestia

Originally Posted By: Dantius

I'd recommend dropping a few hundred k a year on some good bodyguards. That should keep you safe from just about anything.

That seems like a good idea, but seems expensive.

You should ask the person who is attacking you if this is what they really want to do, as you have professional martial arts training, and then fight!

He didn't mention budgetary concerns. I simply offered the optimal solution given sufficient resources.

[Frozen Feet]

Originally Posted By: Lier Beneath the Silent Skies

Buy a knife.

Fun stuff.

Or don't. Bringing weapons to a fight is often a quick way to escalate things, and can make the legal repercussions exponentially worse. Plus, you are rarely allowed to carry weapons to places where most common self-defense situations arise, and for those same situations they represent a way too high level of force. Some form of pepperspray might be worth it, but even that requires a license in many places.

Your best bet is to take self-defense courses, and practice jogging so you can run away better. It shouldn't be too hard to find a MA club that focuses on modern self-defense. In a pinch, military, traditional or competitive martial arts can work too, at least better than being completely clueless.

Interesting tidbit: statistically, a person with who hasn't been in any prior self-defense situations but has practiced contact sports (such as ice-hockey or American football) comes out as the "victor" in most common self-defense situations about 66% of the time. A martial artist who hasn't been in any prior self-defense situations only wins about 33% of the time. However, the sportsman doesn't increase in performance for subsequent self-defense situations, while the martial artist becomes 90+% likely to "win" in following situations. (Source: Fighter magazine)

For the record, most common self-defense situations are bar room brawls and drunken fights that break out in cab lines at saturday night.

Personally, I've practiced goju-ryu karate for three years now, and had basic courses in krav-maga and military close combat. I can't vouch for effectiveness of any specific techniques, but I do know it has made me more fit and more alert of my surroundings.

[Sudanna]

I recommended a knife because it has general utility as a tool. At least to me, anyways, I do a lot of handsy stuff.

[Dintiradan]

On the other hand, concealed weapon laws.

[Frozen Feet]

Sure, knives have utility. I often carry one with me too. But try carrying one to a bar or a restaurant, let alone using one for self-defense. I wouldn't be surprised if the former is downright illegal in many places, and the latter is much likelier to incriminate you.

[Sudanna]

Is your sig supposed to say "Know I now"?

[Frozen Feet]

Yes. Funny malapropism, that.

[TheBadAgent]

3rd dan black belt in tae-kwon-do soon enough =)

Also studying ninjutsu now.

[keira]

Concealed weapon permit. Even if you don't use it, I'd imagine waving a pistol around like you know what you are doing will deter the average mugger, rapist, or overzealous girl scout.

[nikki.]

I've been mugged/attacked/whatever a couple of times now whilst living in what is considered a fairly quiet, dull semi-rural town - a fairly long time ago I guess (one/two years), but the threads are still around at SV if you feel like looking at them - and I can honestly say I still wouldn't carry a weapon around with me. All it takes is for you to even look like you're going to grab a knife and they're going to kick the proverbial out of you before you have the chance to spring anything.

 

Addit: I also lived near to St. Annes, an area in Nottingham, England. Do a quick google on it to see how rough that place is/was, and yet I was never attacked once. I think I attribute confidence to that one. If I'm okay with walking past groups of youths late at night, I'm obviously not the best person to mess with, and so I was left alone. Pretty terrible advice, but srsly Slithy, no weapons.

[The Ratt]

Another thing to consider with weapons is, if you don't know how to use them, your opponent could take them away and use them against you.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: It's a trap

Concealed weapon permit. Even if you don't use it, I'd imagine waving a pistol around like you know what you are doing will deter the average mugger, rapist, or overzealous girl scout.

Again, only if you're very quick on the draw. If you're not, they'll beat you to a pulp for trying to pull something out, and it doesn't matter if it's a gun, a knife, or a feather. If they're quicker and they have guns, you're dead. Then there's the fact that brandishing a gun at someone is also a crime, so you'd better be sure they're thugs, not just other nervous wanderers in the night.

Not a winning proposition.

—Alorael, who still thinks the best way to be safe is to stay around other people and lit areas. And be lucky. And don't carry huge wads of cash, just in case. But really, be lucky.

[RCCCL]

Or you could just take my method, be a really, really big guy. Course, that kind of depends on genetics, so, genetically enhance yourself to become a really, really big guy. Why stop there though, how about some retractable claws!

[Masquerade]

Originally Posted By: RCCCL

Or you could just take my method, be a really, really big guy. Course, that kind of depends on genetics, so, genetically enhance yourself to become a really, really big guy. Why stop there though, how about some retractable claws!

trust me bub, you don't wanna go there

[Tracer Bullet]

Originally Posted By: Masquerade

Originally Posted By: RCCCL

Or you could just take my method, be a really, really big guy. Course, that kind of depends on genetics, so, genetically enhance yourself to become a really, really big guy. Why stop there though, how about some retractable claws!

trust me bub, you don't wanna go there

That's what the Strength canister on the patrolled road was for.

[madrigan]

Ninety percent of self-defense consists of the following: Live in the safest neighborhood you can, don't walk around strange neighborhoods at night, don't get drunk in public, and don't hang around with belligerent morons. Learn to keep your mouth shut and don't be afraid to run away. Also, if you are male, do not become involved with a woman who thinks violent men are attractive.

 

If you do the above things, you will avoid most self-defense situations. If you want to do something about the other ten percent of self-defense, getting a gun is an option under the following conditions: you are comfortable with the idea of shooting somebody if necessary, you are willing to learn how to use the gun properly and to practice with it regularly, and you are willing to go through whatever legal process is required to obtain and carry the gun. If you're not willing to satisfy all of these conditions, the gun will get you killed or arrested.

 

As for learning to fight hand-to-hand, the single most important factor is the way you train. You have to train as realistically as possible. This means you practice against another person who is actually trying to beat you while wearing as little protective gear as possible. You don't have to practice in an alley and stab each other with broken bottles, but if you want to learn to box, for example, you have to box against somebody. In the martial arts community, this is called "aliveness." Hitting bags and pads and mimicking technique can be valuable, but if you want to learn the skill, you have to actually practice the actual skill, not just parts of it against inanimate objects or in the air.

 

Just remember, there are no secret techniques, there are no unstoppable techniques, and you can't get good at fighting in six weeks. There is no chi, and if there was it would take a really long time to learn to use it in a fight. Look for a martial arts school that trains in an alive manner, which will probably be a school that teaches a martial art with a tradition of doing so -- judo, boxing, muay thai, brazilian jiu-jitsu, and wrestling are examples.

 

If you want to supplement that training with something like krav maga or civilian combatives, fine. But keep in mind that if you can't practice gouging somebody's eyes out or punching them in the throat, then you can't rely on those techniques in a real fight. But you can practice a left hook and an Osoto Gari every day if you want. Just remember, it's the school and the instructor, not the style that is most important.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

Also, if you are male, do not become involved with a woman who thinks violent men are attractive.

this seems like good advice even if you are not male

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: madrigan

Also, if you are male, do not become involved with a woman who thinks violent men are attractive.

this seems like good advice even if you are not male

Good point, I could have phrased that better.

[Rowen]

I've been robbed at gun point before. There was no quick to the draw to see who got their .33 out first, I just gave him my watch and left before he could say anything. Another time I person drew a knife on me and I just ran screaming me head off back the way I came from. He only chased a block and gave up when I crossed the street.

 

My self defense is just to give them my stuff and move on before I get hurt. If they shoot me, well there is little I can do to stop a bullet with my hands, and I have no intention of being aggressive and making them defensive.

 

Is there a one-size-fits-all solution? No. Just do what you need to do to not get hurt.

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: Rowen

...and I have no intention of being aggressive and making them defensive.

I think ES is requesting advice on how to prepare for an actual attack. We've all been suggesting avoidance as an option, and avoidance is certainly part of self-defense, but so is knowing what to do when you are actually attacked.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

Originally Posted By: Rowen

...and I have no intention of being aggressive and making them defensive.

I think ES is requesting advice on how to prepare for an actual attack. We've all been suggesting avoidance as an option, and avoidance is certainly part of self-defense, but so is knowing what to do when you are actually attacked.

I think Rowen provided about the best answer. Unless you're highly trained in close-quarters self-defense, just cooperate and get the heck out of there as soon as you can. And unless they have a gun, run like the wind.

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

...but it made me think about self defense and how helpless I would be if I couldn't escape from a dangerous situation. Does anyone have any expertise in this matter?

My point is, the original question was not actually "how do I avoid fighting?" it was "what if I can't avoid a fight?" Not all fights are avoidable. You can be jumped without warning. Someone may attack you with the goal of doing you harm, not getting your wallet. You can end up in an altercation against more than one person, making it difficult or impossible to escape. You may be with someone else -- infant, elderly family member, handicapped person -- who cannot run away. You may need to protect someone else. The best answer is to avoid violence when you can but be prepared in case you can't.

[Rowen]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

...but it made me think about self defense and how helpless I would be if I couldn't escape from a dangerous situation. Does anyone have any expertise in this matter?

My point is, the original question was not actually "how do I avoid fighting?" it was "what if I can't avoid a fight?" Not all fights are avoidable. You can be jumped without warning. Someone may attack you with the goal of doing you harm, not getting your wallet. You can end up in an altercation against more than one person, making it difficult or impossible to escape. You may be with someone else -- infant, elderly family member, handicapped person -- who cannot run away. You may need to protect someone else. The best answer is to avoid violence when you can but be prepared in case you can't.

If there is no escape and you choose to fight back be prepared to let go of your 'honor,' your life is to valuable to be spent playing fair when in physical danger. Aim for the testiess, celiac plexus (solar plexus), throat, and eyes. You should have the goal of stopping the attack only long
enough so you can get away.

Sadly there is no getting away sometimes.

[Karoka]

Originally Posted By: Master1

And unless they have a gun, run like the wind.

Noone I've ever met has ever been able to try to match my maximum speed. The problem is, I might die of an asthma attack after 20 seconds.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

...but it made me think about self defense and how helpless I would be if I couldn't escape from a dangerous situation. Does anyone have any expertise in this matter?

My point is, the original question was not actually "how do I avoid fighting?" it was "what if I can't avoid a fight?" Not all fights are avoidable. You can be jumped without warning. Someone may attack you with the goal of doing you harm, not getting your wallet. You can end up in an altercation against more than one person, making it difficult or impossible to escape. You may be with someone else -- infant, elderly family member, handicapped person -- who cannot run away. You may need to protect someone else. The best answer is to avoid violence when you can but be prepared in case you can't.

Actually, the question is how to deal with a dangerous situation. That doesn't necessarily indicate violence, only the threat. Being held at gunpoint for your wallet counts as a dangerous situation without being violent (unless you start something). I think that it's far less likely that someone comes at you with the intent to harm rather than the intent to profit.

[Jerakeen]

Originally Posted By: Master1

And unless they have a gun, run like the wind.

In many cases, even if they have a gun. Especially if you're a woman. The odds of getting fatally shot while running are worse than the odds of being killed after allowing yourself to be taken somewhere private.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Unless they manage to sneak up and have you at point blank, in which case it depends on whether they really want to shoot you. Running is only good if you already have some distance. I was operating under the first scenario - close quarters with a gun.

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: Master1

Originally Posted By: madrigan

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

...but it made me think about self defense and how helpless I would be if I couldn't escape from a dangerous situation. Does anyone have any expertise in this matter?

My point is, the original question was not actually "how do I avoid fighting?" it was "what if I can't avoid a fight?" Not all fights are avoidable. You can be jumped without warning. Someone may attack you with the goal of doing you harm, not getting your wallet. You can end up in an altercation against more than one person, making it difficult or impossible to escape. You may be with someone else -- infant, elderly family member, handicapped person -- who cannot run away. You may need to protect someone else. The best answer is to avoid violence when you can but be prepared in case you can't.

Actually, the question is how to deal with a dangerous situation. That doesn't necessarily indicate violence, only the threat. Being held at gunpoint for your wallet counts as a dangerous situation without being violent (unless you start something). I think that it's far less likely that someone comes at you with the intent to harm rather than the intent to profit.

Knowing how to deal with a dangerous situation includes knowing how to fight.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

Knowing how to deal with a dangerous situation includes knowing how to fight.

That is indeed one way of dealing with a dangerous situation, but it is not the only way. There are countless examples throughout the animal kingdom of creatures that survive dangerous situations without fighting. Just look at the possum.

[Upon Mars.]

First rule in self defence: Do not attack.

[madrigan]

I don't know if the OP is still following this thread, but if so -- What did you decide to do?

[Enraged Slith]

There really isn't much to do. If I'm in a situation like this in the future, I'll simply be less reserved about getting away. I'd love to learn how to fight in some way, but this would be more for confidence and exercise than self-defense.

[VCH]

Take up running, become fit, then, if provoked, taunt your pursuers into a chase. There's nothing funnier than watching so called tough guys blow up as you stay just out of reach.

 

Most animals deal with danger not by fighting but instead by running away.

 

 

[Balladeer]

Things I've learned in Kuyki-do class.

 

First stay calm. Then react quickly but appropriately.

 

If they're taunting, use calm words. Building someone's ego can diffuse their anger.

 

If they flash weapons try offering your possessions before they try to take them. Throw your wallet/watch/purse away from yourself so the weapons stay as far from you as possible.

 

If they look nervous you could bluff by saying something like 'I've already pressed the Panic button on my phone. The cops will be here any second.' Better yet, get a phone with a panic button or an equivalent so you're not bluffing.

 

If they lay hands on you break free as quickly as possible.

 

They have your hands? Tuck your elbows into your sides, spread your fingers, step one foot back and twist away as quickly as you can while bringing your hand up towards your ear.

 

Or two of their hands on one of your hands, reach between their hands with your other one and pull it up and out.

 

They have your neck? Whether from the front, side, or back; lift your arms straight up over your head and lock hands(not fingers). Squeeze their hands to your neck, step away from them with one foot and twist quickly.

 

They have your lapel? Your arms go up through the middle and arcing out. Hit their forearms with your forearms and keep your elbows close to your body.

 

All these techniques must be done fast and hard for the surprise before an attacker can really get a grip on you. Follow through immediately with running away if possible. Offensive strike if not. Double punch to the sternum/nose or snap kick to the groin/sternum/chin can give you some time to get away while they recover.

 

Not as effective when defending against groups but its a starting point.

 

If you can't afford self defense classes, most of the dojos in my area let you sit in and observe class. You could look into that. If you're a visual learner, watching it done then repeating it at home can give you an equivalent level of training. There are books under $50 that can demonstrate techniques, too.

 

tl;dr Fly you fools!

[ex post slarto]

Okay, let's take a step back here.

 

Muggings happen all the time, and giving up money is a pretty good defense to that, and likely cheaper than martial arts classes. Attacking a total stranger with the intent to injure and/or kill him, on the other hand, is pretty rare.

[VCH]

When I'm traveling in countries where I'm afraid of being mugged, I carry an extra wallet that has maximum 20.00 dollars in it. That way I can give it away and not loose anything important.

[The Mystic]

I suggest lowering the maximum to $5, or maybe even to $1, so you don't lose as much if it's stolen. Also, if you get a lot of credit card offers in the mail, save any cards they send you (making sure there's no personal information or promotion codes), and add a handful to the wallet; this will help make it look like you're really handing over your wallet instead of a decoy. Hopefully, you'll be several miles away by the time they learn it's a trick.

[Frozen Feet]

Originally Posted By: upon mars

First rule in self defence: Do not attack.

Not as set in stone as you'd think. If someone is acting threatening, throwing the first kick to buy yourself time to run away can be recommendable, or even ideal. Even humans have the habit of "puffing up" and trying to look very big and intimidating when they get angry. Fortunately, this leaves their torso and gut wide open. A fast kick there to deflate them can be invaluable for an escape.

[ex post slarto]

Unless they have a gun and an anger problem. Personally, I know a lot of disaffected teenagers who have access to the first and no escape from the second, so I really hestitate on that one.

[Erebus the Black]

I know this sounds stupid but:

play dead and cut the achilles tendon.

[Cairo Jim]

Don't do what I occaisonally do and pick on someone twice your size. It sorta hurts.