Suggestions for G4 creations

[The_Nazgul]

While reading the suggestions for Geneforge 4, I thought this to be a topic on it's own. Please justify.

 

These are some of my suggestions, others mentioned them already:

 

1)Clockwork creations. Like Golems, movin Pylon things and maybe a couple more. They would be vary hard to make creations, inmune to mental spells. Because of the war going on Shapers and Rebels alike are forced to find new alternatives to shaping powerfull creatures with little essence costs. The result is a new cast of Shaper/Mechanics. The player would require huge amounts of Mechanics and Shapings skills. The clockwork creations would use very little essence, but would require some hard to find limited materials.

 

2)Living tools, Batoons and the like. It would be great if you could shape and breed these things, have you'r little breeding pit. You would need to feed the things and maintain them in some way.

 

more later...

[Archmage Alex]

I would suggest actually having new creations, unlike this last one. Come on Jeff! The entire game is based on and revolves around the fact that you make creations and you don't even throw in one new one?

[Icshi]

Those are both very good ideas. I was hoping Geneforge 3 would allow you to create a golem or at least have one along as a pick-up companion. But no. I concur with Alex that GF3 was very disappointing in the creation department. I can understand Jeff not wanting to fool around with a bunch of new sprites for each game—and I am thankful for the new variety of unanimated foliage and whatnot—but new creations were sorely missed.

[Psh]

I do like the idea of more creations. But what I would like even more is, for more creation spots. I like to be able to carry around a massive horde. Pump all my skills into intelligence and gather a massive horde. the current number wasnt good enough for me =P. I havnt finished the G3 completely. yet. but from the monsters I had to choose from so far, werent that great. Maybe some kind of demons with wings. =/

[The_Nazgul]

Ok, a few more ideas.

 

3) This one was also mentioned. In the previous Geneforge series we have seen the "Charged" variety of creations. It would be great if some master shaper or drakon could teach you how to shape the charged creations. Another option is to find some sort of one-time-use-only platform to charge any of you'r creations. (This would require no new graphics.)

 

4) The "Inferno Artilla" could be available as some sort of easter egg? (Again, no new graphics.)

 

5) An absolute new "legal" creation for the Shapers (With new graphics and all). Rebels have the huge advantage in creations, specially in the "air" department with the Drakons. Because of this, Shapers are forced to come up with a flying creation to, in a way, counter it. Obviously not as strong or intelligent as the Drakons, this new breed (Something like a dragoon maybe?) would require little essence. They would be weak, dumb but very fast, loyal and easy to control (Like a flying Fyora). With this new creation Shapers would be able to ambush small Drakon groups and overwhelm them.

 

6) Someone mentioned this idea and I quite liked it. The hauling creation could be a modified Ornk. In all Geneforge series de penalty for carrying items is huge and unlike Avernum series you only have 1 pickup able character with very limited space, especially as the game develops further and you need to carry many charms and infiltrator items. A little hauling creation would make things much easier. This option is available in another game some of you might know, “Escape Velocity”. In that game you have the option of converting cargo space to weapons space. This weapons/cargo choice could be implemented in Geneforge 4 with this hauling creation.

[Mr. Morph]

Yea you should have the people who join you, like Alwan and Greta, be able to equip items and carry them too

[Dolphin]

Pack Ornks would be cute, and tagalongs could be carry item, too.

 

Boat creations would be preferable to the enlarged version of the Avernum boat in GF3.

[Jaid]

how about that boat drayk from the intro to GF1? it would be pretty nifty to have one of those.

 

in fact, it would be kinda neat to also have clawbugs able to tunnel, but the more you add in to the game, the more insanity it brings to those who have to design it... and i can't say i'm sure the ability to tunnel randomly and/or travel over water/in the air is worth the programming involved.

 

(i'm sure someone else has mentioned this, but... does anyone else find it weird that the shapers begin the lengthy training process in responsible use of shaper powers etc by transporting you to your school by a creation which is, in and of itself, against said shaping rules?)

[*i]

Where does it say the boat creature was a Dryak? I believe the creature was just another type of creature.

[Jaid]

it explicitly says drayk. if you don't own GF1, download the demo. start a new game, and on the second page of text, it tells you the boat you are on is a specially modified drayk.

 

anyways, i think it might be neat to be able to make mechanically-enhanced creations, as someone else suggested. obviously requiring something to make them, and the ability to make them based on mechanical skill.

 

as a possible suggestion, it could require a whole lot of the junk/trash item you find all over the place (representing you finding pieces that are actually useful). it would most likely require a forge or some other device to upgrade your creations, and might just be a way to upgrade your creations instead of using karma. the materials needed should be used up permanently, whatever they are, and i think that would reward those who choose to keep a small number of creations instead of lots (because they would have the resources), as well as those who keep their creations for a long time.

 

as i see it, that would make it a bit more of a benefit for agents and guardians, which would be necessary if you are going to introduce all the new kinds of creations i would like to see (variety rather than increased power).

[Igor]

Quote:

Originally written by Jaid:
i (variety rather than increased power).

Definately. I would like to see more low-power and low-cost creatures introduced, like those rogue worms from the first island in GF3. Perhaps even a class of creature different from magic, fire, or battle creatures.

[Thralni]

wouldn't it be nice to have creations that also appear in avernum? Like Vahnatai, slimes, goblins,alienbeasts, that sort a thing? there is an eyebeast i heard, but more are alway welcome.

[Ash Lael]

Nope, that would not be a good thing.

 

I think it's annoying that nearly all the creations revolve around being either shooty or hitty. I'd like to see more creative uses. The pyroroamers are a good idea, but should be cheaper and weaker - I'd like to set off a chain of explosions, darn it!

 

Some sort of pack mule would be excellent, and people have been asking for it since GF1.

 

I'd also like to be able to make serviles, or something similar. Expensive and mostly useless in terms of raw ability, but they can use equipment. It would also present a great opportunity for some real fun with it's personality. It starts out somewhat confused and very obedient (naturally), but depending on your actions, it will learn and develop a personality and even opinions of it's own. It would also present a bit of a moral dilemma when you want to absorb him. Something like that could be awesome. Damn, now I want to make a scenario along those lines.

 

And also a fast flying creation that sucks at combat (though possibly has a poison bite), but is useful as a scout.

[Jaid]

hmmm.... 3 levels of servile creation = ur-servile?

 

i wonder...

[Phase Equilibrium]

I wish the creations can go rogue PERMENANTLY. Think of it, one of your creation ran away in one battle. When you returned to that area, he attack you with fellow rogues! Beside absorption, there can be another option like 'lossen control' so that you can regain the essense cost of the said creation but he becomes neutral, perhaps some days later hostile. This way you can create swarms of rogues by an essense pool! And you must think over some shaper rules like 'only create as much as you can control'. And a rebel quest could be 'sending 30 rogues into Fort X'! Am I the first to think of this??

[Thralni]

I don't think I like the idea of letting all your creations turning rogue and that way destroy you. It seems like suicide to me.

[Jaid]

not to mention being an infinite XP loop.

 

and, if you create the right critters, infinite money too (battle alphas and betas have this delightful habit of dropping armor when they die).

[Phase Equilibrium]

Well.. yes.

 

But you don't get XP killing your own creations, nor do your battle alphas/betas drop things when they get killed.

 

Making infinit rogues is not immediately suicidal for they may become hostile only after a few days. You'd make the area formidable, though, so that nobody would inresponsively create rogues for fun.

[Ash Lael]

As a variation on that idea, how about if you could spend more essencethan you actually have, but the further you go over the limit, the higher the chance that your creations will go rogue.

[mok]

Quote:

Originally written by Ash Lael:
As a variation on that idea, how about if you could spend more essencethan you actually have, but the further you go over the limit, the higher the chance that your creations will go rogue.

Yes!
This seems to be what other shapers [can] do.
When you're on the 2nd island and you see the shaper there you can see the almost-crazed look in the creations' eyes b/c he's at the limit of his control. But he wouldn't be the first shaper to not realize his limit and create one too many creations and end up with a bunch of rogues on his hands.

You ought to be able to do this yourself.
Of course, having done this, you won't be able to cast any spells other than firebolt...

[Jaid]

yes, but the more creations you have, the smaller the difference your personal attack capabilities make anyways. so who cares if all you have is firebolt... you've got better stuff to do then cast attack spells.

 

of course, on the other hand... i for one would really miss those blessing spells...

[Dunbar]

I think the ability to create rogues above and beyond your normal essence pool (and thus beyond your ability to control) is just an ability you don't have as an apprentice. Much like Hoge's ability to pass through a stone wall, or Kyrryc's (how is that spelled?) ability to teleport small distances.

 

This is one thing I really liked about GF3...you really see new abilities that full Shapers have that set them apart from you, a mere apprentice. Sure you gain a lot of powers and shaping abilites through canisters...but there are more tricks out there you just don't know.

 

Personally, I think the amount and power of creations you can control should depend on your leadership...after all, high leadership lets you manipulate and control the creations of other shapers. And maybe that's how rogues are created...

 

Perhaps as long as a creation is directly connected to you (taking up some of your essence pool) it cannot go rogue. So maybe really advanced shapers learn a way to sever this bond with their creation without absorbing it, so the shaper has full use of his essence pool and still has control of the creation. However, this control is now based on his power as a shaper (the leadership skill in game); the greater the number and power of creations to be controled in this way, the higher your leadership needs to be to keep them from going rogue.

[DeathsServent]

these are fun thoughts, i did find it really anoying that you can only have i think its....like 10 companions in Genforge 3, and then only if you have the essence to create them all, i usually go through game making a fyora right off, naming it bob (dont know y), and keeping it through the whole game and ocasionally making a secondary brute creation to help in fights, even though i could fully upgrade the fyora by the time the game is over it takes to much essence, by the time i had his *stuff* up half way he was taking up i think like 240 essence!

[Micawber]

7) Basilisks! I want basilisks!

[Archmage Alex]

Quote:

Originally written by Dunbar:
Personally, I think the amount and power of creations you can control should depend on your leadership...after all, high leadership lets you manipulate and control the creations of other shapers. And maybe that's how rogues are created...

Perhaps as long as a creation is directly connected to you (taking up some of your essence pool) it cannot go rogue. So maybe really advanced shapers learn a way to sever this bond with their creation without absorbing it, so the shaper has full use of his essence pool and still has control of the creation. However, this control is now based on his power as a shaper (the leadership skill in game); the greater the number and power of creations to be controled in this way, the higher your leadership needs to be to keep them from going rogue.

I really like this idea. It's hard to have to decide whether to improve your creations or have enough essence for more than 3 spells. Since creations you have released from your direct connection no longer need to use essence to improve, a balance could be that the more powerful they get, the more leadership that is needed to control them. Also, the more creations you have that are not connected to you the less your leadership affects them.

[Ian Dressari]

I believe someone said this already, but being able to shape weapons would be awesome. Make weapon shaping a whole new skill/spell type. That way, as you gain more levels in it,(either through training or canisterz) you make progressively better items. Such as level 1 lets you shape thorns, then lvl 2 or 3 lets you shape the batton, and so on.

 

Also, I would really like there to be another level for you to attain creations. Such as from cryora to pyrora, or something like that. Does anybody agree with me on that?

[Xoid]

@Ian Dressari:There is a single 'S' in Dresari, Mechwarrior.

 

Back on topic:

Shaping Golems and Pylons seems a little... wrong to me. Golems requiring a stone frame and skill to make it, and pylons require inordinate amounts of crystal to make the casing for the creation inside. Turrets on the other hand... damnit... where is a devilish smiley when you need one?

 

Battle Gammas. They seem to be legal creations, they'd have to be, seeing as there are some in Dhonal's Keep, so why can't we access them? While I'm on the issue of the legality of creations for loyalists: why doesn't anyone bat an eyelid when a drayk/drakon/gazer/rhotgroth or variant thereof is in your party? There should be at least a couple more options for purist loyalists in terms of their creations and such.

 

If Battle Gammas were a (relatively) cheap and accessible creation for their overall power, it might make investment in battle shaping worth it again. And Clawbugs... where is the poison that their description says they have? I've been irritated by that omission since GF1, you'd think even Jeff would've either fixed the clawbug or it's description by now.

[Firecage]

It would be cool to make serviles and they must be able to carry stuff for you.And you should be able to make dragon with a controll that they can fly or walk on the ground and they must be fire and ice dragons.

[Firecage]

Maybe you should be able to make a giant fyora with ultamite atk and he has the power of a fyora and a cryora.

[Goldengirl]

I'm thinkin something like a fusion or something for those weak human soldiers. Say like the human rebels beg Hoge to make them stronger without canisters. So he fuses them with a draykon or something, adn heck why stop with the foot soldiers? Why not fuse yourself with a draykon? That would obviously be a rebel act and seen as an abomination to the shapers.

[Octavo]

I agree with Dunbar and Archmage Alex.

 

Furthermore, basilisks are fun. But I'm not sure how they could be reconciled with Geneforge...

 

Also: I've given some thought to the question of greater shaping depth. (as opposed to length, adding more at the top, which provides a distinct Rebel advantage.)

What I came up with is:

• It'd be nice to have a third form of creations. This would exist notably for Battle Gammas, but the other creations would be good too. This would allow greater balance. Also, perhaps the third Fyora should have its wings back? The issue, of course, would be graphics.
• I thought of including a creation type technique of some sort. Possibly someone could teach you these boosts that you could add on at creation time, for a cost?

  Type-boosts would include Charged as well as possibly Shade, which would free up a state in the Thahd tree. And if one added Explosive (unlikely) then you'd have all sorts of bombs!

• More creation trees would be nice. The most important would be one for Serviles and Ornks, who would both make excellent porters, as well as introduce fun ethical dilemmas.

  Also, a tree for thorns and batons. They'd require a base material, but I think this is a feature long overdue. And turrets are fun

  Lastly, mines are good. But I'm not sure how the shaping would go on that. Not as high priority as Turrets.

And that's my 6 cents.

[Raiden]

i want more cute creatures

[Delicious Vlish]

I could see a tinker class of Shaper.

 

No idea of what it might be called, but they would specialise in mines, turrets, planting thorn bushes that you would have to be able to come back later and harvest, etc.

 

I think gameplay wise, they would play like a Bounty Hunter in Baldur's Gate SoA. Lay down a whole line of mines, traps, and maybe a turret or two, and then lure enemies through your deadly minefield when the situation allows. This would not always be the case.

 

Then again, I don't see this happening in Geneforge. Nevermind.

[Jaid]

Quote:

Originally written by Delicious Vlish:
I could see a tinker class of Shaper.

No idea of what it might be called, but they would specialise in mines, turrets, planting thorn bushes that you would have to be able to come back later and harvest, etc.

I think gameplay wise, they would play like a Bounty Hunter in Baldur's Gate SoA. Lay down a whole line of mines, traps, and maybe a turret or two, and then lure enemies through your deadly minefield when the situation allows. This would not always be the case.

Then again, I don't see this happening in Geneforge. Nevermind.

the word "sapper" comes to mind to describe this kind of person. alternatively, "engineer" might also work, or something to that effect.

sounds like an interesting type to me

of course, the AI might need a bit of an upgrade in this case (for example, at least the higher intelligence creations would probably somewhat try to avoid mines) and possibly some other limitations (the implications of many reaper turrets attacking en masse is just way to scary to even consider, IMO), but i think it would certainly be interesting

[Zephyr Tempest]

I would like a cat-based creation...like some sort of venomous tiger...or a pseudoCheetah with a high Quick Attack. But I'm just throwing out some ideas.

 

Basilisks would be interesting, and the kill spell may fit them well, but then there would have to be some sort of distinction between them and Gazers. Or maybe an entirely new spell could be invented for them that paralyzes the enemy...and then just say it turns them into stone.

 

I would also like to see a shapable creation make use of the Acid Shower spell. Or even better...have Oozebeasts be the advanced form of Ornks! I would love to see that!

[Vicheron]

I think there should be creation modifying devices, like an anvil for creations, but there should be a level/creation type requirement for creation modifications, for example a certain upgrade might have a requirement of level 20 for a fire creation but only a level 18 requirement for a magic creation.

 

As for golems, there should be a specific skill dedicated to the creation of golems and golems shouldn't level like creations. I think that golems should be able to gain experience but in order to level them you have to go to an anvil and spend a certain amount of gold depending on your golem crafting and mechanics skill. Plus you should be able to upgrade your golem, the power of the upgrade would depend on the golem's level. Oh and they shouldn't have auto-heal, unless you upgrade them with it, you have to repair them with living tools.

[IEatCabbage]

maybe there could be some type of special creation.

 

that for example gains strength from skills into all 3 types(fire/magic/battle).

 

As it is now for example, putting skills into all 3 areas is a waste and fire is generally the strongest area.

 

And you're allowed max one type of this creation so other creations are still used.

 

Or maybe some other way to make battle creations more useful as I found them to be weak compared to fire.

[Shiboito]

Quote:

Originally written by Vicheron:
I think there should be creation modifying devices, like an anvil for creations, but there should be a level/creation type requirement for creation modifications, for example a certain upgrade might have a requirement of level 20 for a fire creation but only a level 18 requirement for a magic creation.

As for golems, there should be a specific skill dedicated to the creation of golems and golems shouldn't level like creations. I think that golems should be able to gain experience but in order to level them you have to go to an anvil and spend a certain amount of gold depending on your golem crafting and mechanics skill. Plus you should be able to upgrade your golem, the power of the upgrade would depend on the golem's level. Oh and they shouldn't have auto-heal, unless you upgrade them with it, you have to repair them with living tools.

Unless u could make living tools or have an unlimited number of them in stores, the repair with livig tools would be.....retarded. I think they should put like gorgons (medusas) in. It would be interesting, like, the stone spell, as someone mentioned earlier, could like make the enemy paralize and turn gray. And i think there should be liches in the game, u could teach them a bunch of random speels and start blowing up the school teacher.

[Jaid]

as far as making battle creations stronger:

 

let the thahds, alphas, and rotghroths (and rhotdhizons of course) use equipment. imagine how that would change things.

 

of course, clawbugs would still be pretty danged unimpressive, but meh.