On PDNs.

[keira]

I have noticed a recent trend in the stylistic choices some members have started choosing to use, with regards to their PDNs. I, personally, believe this trend to be a negative one, and would desire such a trend to cease or decrease severely in magnitude. I am speaking, of course, of the obnoxious symbol-filled mess that many PDNs have become.

 

This usage strikes me as irritating and attention-seeking behavior. It seems like such usage is designed to look "cool" and call attention to oneself. From a stylistic viewpoint, this is of course true, the eye tends to drift over things at can easily understand, and tends to stop at garbled-up messes. Take the example below, which one does your eye tend to focus on?

 

1: ۞ϨЕе҃Ҥӧш·Λᴎᴨṏẙỉἡϧ҇Тђїϩ΅îȿˀ

2: See How Annoying This is?

 

Your eye most likely focused on item one, the garbled mess. The usage of doing such detracts from the most important part of your forum posts, the content. You might have a quite interesting treatise on the game balance of Geneforge, but it is moot when my brain keeps trying to decode the garbage in the upper-left corner of the post.

 

Not only is is bothersome from a visual point, it's also annoying from an accessibility view. Most of us are lucky enough to have relatively intact vision, there are people who are not so lucky, and have to rely on screen-readers and other accessibility devices to use the forum. Anyone who has had the joyous opportunity of using a screen reader knows that it is already hard enough to know what's going on, the addition of eight codepages of junk is undoubtedly a further strain to comprehension.

 

Thirdly, this usage places a (warranted?) stigma of immaturity on the forum as a whole. Many people from many backgrounds come here looking for help with Jeff's games, and I am pretty sure at least some of them would view help from "Sex Machine 8000 Alternately-capitalized with some Cyrillic and tildes thrown in, plus a question mark because why not" as not being as valuable as it would be from a simple "Sex Machine 8000". Spiderweb is beginning to look more like a place I would ask about proper comebacks for the 13-year-old on Call of Duty who keeps calling me a homo.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are proper usages of special characters in PDNs. If you are Russian, maybe you want your name to be in Cyrillic (I'm not Arabic, but from September to October 2010 I used a non-transliterated version of my Facebook name). If you really like cafés or pokémon, including that accented e would be a good idea.

 

So, please, I urge the Spiderweb community to stop and consider what they are doing to their PDNs. If we cannot restrain ourselves with the proper usage of special characters, what sets us apart from the common beast?

[Trenton.]

You know only two to three people have done it so far right? Darth Ernie, I think, Me, and BMA. Bma quit his, and I only added two symbols around my off capitalization, and on capitalization name, which is my gimmick. It really hasn't gotten out of control yet. I doubt it ever will get out of control.

[Sudanna]

I don't think it being out of control was brought up.

[Trenton.]

Eh. Just saying so. I mean that so few people do it, I don't see how it annoys anyone. Everyone can read my name well enough.

[keira]

Originally Posted By: ☎TrEnToN☎

I don't see how it annoys anyone.

Originally Posted By: Future Wonderbolt

You might have a quite interesting treatise on the game balance of Geneforge, but it is moot when my brain keeps trying to decode the garbage in the upper-left corner of the post. [....]

there are people who are not so lucky, and have to rely on screen-readers and other accessibility devices to use the forum. [....]

Spiderweb is beginning to look more like a place I would ask about proper comebacks for the 13-year-old on Call of Duty who keeps calling me a homo.

[Trenton.]

Alright. If it annoys people so much, I'll stop then.

 

I don't think anyone else who does it gets on anymore x.x

[Rowen]

Originally Posted By: Future Wonderbolt

Spiderweb is beginning to look more like a place I would ask about proper comebacks for the 13-year-old on Call of Duty who keeps calling me a homo.

Why do you have to attack the people that have characters in their PND's? You say that there is a problem with characters in PDN's and then say what I quoted above. Seems like you are saying that if anyone uses Characters in their PDN then they are 13-year-olds that call you homo. I have not seen anyone do that, so why attack Aran for having his PDN made of characters?

[keira]

I am just saying that there is a common stigma associated with having unintelligible symbol-filled PDNs.

 

It's common to see unintelligible symbol-filled PDNs used by 13-year-olds whose only adjective they know is 'gay'. It's becoming common to see unintelligible symbol-filled PDNs here. I'm not saying there's a link there, nor do I believe there is one. Visitors to the forum, however, do not have that community knowledge.

[Trenton.]

Don't forget the one with the E shaped thing, under Drakefyre in the ten top most posters list.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Sylae

Take the example below, which one does your eye tend to focus on?

I personally focus on 2. 1 looks like gibberish, so my brain skips over it. *shrugs*

Sylae, I respect your opinion, but you're only one person. If HTML characters annoy a bunch of people, then yes, perhaps we should put a stop to HTML characters and symbols in PDNs. But it would be unfair (not to mention impossible) to stop everyone from doing something just because it bothers one or two people.

Dikiyoba doesn't mind an occasional symbols in PDNs, but a PDN that is one long string of symbols can be irritating.

[Goldengirl]

I understand the issue of accessibility. However, is there really a need to police how people identify through stigmatization (association with immature thirteen-year-olds)? People have a right to express themselves how they want, within the framework of the Code of Conduct and the admins'/mods' rulings. Perhaps, instead of making this a public spectacle, this might have better been dealt with by PM?

[Sudanna]

Was stopping anyone mentioned? It's a personal complaint.

[nikki.]

Man, I though I'd be able to say something witty, or at least relevant, here. Alas.

 

I don't mind them, I guess. I'd rather see witty and original names (see: Alorael) than a bunch of special characters, but I've been allowed to exhibit my personality through my PDN, so why shouldn't others, even if it is through special characters?

[keira]

I am not saying that special characters should be Forbidden, that would be a bad idea and absurd. I'm just asking that people use them a bit more tactfully.

[Erebus the Black]

This Tuesday is the 30th day for my grandmother's passing, and we are going to her grave to see the tombstone, so I hope you can forgive me for using special characters for this occasion.

 

Oh, and good news for you, in Beorn's house in "the Hobbit", there are talking ponies (although they only talk to Beorn), which made me think about you when I read about it, thinking how happy it would make you guys if they appeared in the movies.

[Enraged Slith]

Quote:

Thirdly, this usage places a (warranted?) stigma of immaturity on the forum as a whole.

You're arguing this while pretending that you're a pony from a cartoon.

To be honest, I can't stand MLP or image macros, but it's not worth crying over because it's not anyone's place to dictate how others should behave.

[Lauren CW]

I felt that my previous one was in fact quite clever, especially to anyone who got the reference.

[Triumph]

Originally Posted By: TrEnToN.

Don't forget the one with the E shaped thing, under Drakefyre in the ten top most posters list.

That E-shaped thing is the Greek letter Xi.

I'm a little puzzled by assumption in that 13-year-olds and special symbols go together; but, then, my experience with forum-using 13-year-olds is almost nil.

I also think it was an...ineffective...rhetorical choice to suggest that visitors will be more favorably impressed by the PDN "Sex Machine 8000" than by the same + some special characters. Neither PDN would project a great deal of thoughtful maturity, at least from my point of view.

On an unrelated note, it's nice to see that there is still no limit to the things Spiderwebbers can find to argue about.

[Harehunter]

Originally Posted By: Triumph

On an unrelated note, it's nice to see that there is still no limit to the things Spiderwebbers can find to argue about.

I ACK that. It fits well within the admonition to 'check your insanity at the door'.

I am, and will remain, The Harehunter, puns and all.

[Luca]

Quote:

Alright. If it annoys people Sylae so much, I'll stop then.

fyt. And she's not an admin here.

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

Quote:

Thirdly, this usage places a (warranted?) stigma of immaturity on the forum as a whole.

You're arguing this while pretending that you're a pony from a cartoon.

To be honest, I can't stand MLP or image macros, but it's not worth crying over because it's not anyone's place to dictate how others should behave.

I am reasonably certain that PDNs with special characters, uncommon as they might be, are not a slippery slope that ends in 4chan. It can also be a display of variety and personality differentiated from your idea of some sort of unspoken taboo that we must adhere to a display standard or face social "oppression"

[Prince of Kitties]

I'll admit I'm a bit confused by the whole idea of PDNs (what does that stand for?). When usernames and avatars are changing frequently, it can take a while to figure out who's who, which creates (IMO) unnecessary cognitive overhead.

 

(You might notice that I have kept the same username since I first started posting here. Granted I don't post that often, there is a reason for this.)

 

Re immaturity, the internet seems to bring that out in just about everyone. I suspect that, as with most internet phenomena, it's a matter of abstraction; it's easier to come off as rude, silly, etc. when you're typing responses to an abstract series of text strings, than when you're talking to a concrete person's face.

 

(If you don't believe me, think about software piracy. It's a lot easier to do unethical things when you're not getting any feedback from the victim.)

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: Miramor

I'll admit I'm a bit confused by the whole idea of PDNs (what does that stand for?). When usernames and avatars are changing frequently, it can take a while to figure out who's who, which creates (IMO) unnecessary cognitive overhead.

PDN stands for Publicly Displayed Name. Usernames never change.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

You're arguing this while pretending that you're a pony from a cartoon.

To be honest, I can't stand MLP or image macros, but it's not worth crying over because it's not anyone's place to dictate how others should behave.

thiiiiiiiis

beam in your own eye before the speck in your neighbour's and all that

[The Mystic]

I have no problem with people using special characters in their PDNs, as long as it's done within reason (I'll let people use common sense here). I, for one, am currently content to do without in my PDN.

[Alorael at Large]

Guys, this is a pretty simple request. Sylae doesn't like funny characters in PDNs. It's a personal preference, and you can choose to follow it or not. If you don't like ponies, or any other gimmicks, that's another matter. But why not have it all out? If someone else is driving you absolutely nuts, tell them! Ideally by send, so it doesn't turn into a public fight.

 

—Alorael, who knows there are people who dislike the way he ends his posts with this signature. He's kept doing it anyway. Sometimes self-expression is valid even when others don't like it, but he at least likes knowing that he's not irritating unknowingly.

[Aran]

I'm technically doing it too, but you only notice it when someone quotes me.

[Luca]

Anything else I'd say on this has already been said by someone else before I posted the firs time, so pretend I just quoted everyone just now.

Originally Posted By: This space intentionally garbled

Guys, this is a pretty simple request. Sylae doesn't like funny characters in PDNs. It's a personal preference, and you can choose to follow it or not. If you don't like ponies, or any other gimmicks, that's another matter.

I don't have to be a pony, and Sylae doesn't have to have special characters in her PDN. But we still have to look at each other.

 

So why don't we just get over this silly silly matter.

[Kelandon]

Anyone who's ever studied Greek or learned substantial physics will recognize the the special character that is my PDN, and everyone else should do at least one (if not both) of those two things. Thus, for the time being, my PDN stays.

[Alorael at Large]

I'm fine with your PDN, but I take issue with your statement. Everyone should study Greek and learn substantial physics? I'm all for learning, and even learning for learning's sake, but I think there are plenty of languages equally deserving of attention, if not more. And there is plenty of depth in the sciences that you can reach without delving into physics.

 

—Alorael, who confesses to not having encountered ξ in his studies. He's not even sure where he should have run into it. Quantum mechanics, from cursory Googling, but he wet his quantum feet without recourse to the more arcane elements of the Greek alphabet.

[Actaeon]

I believe I advocated the single-special-character PDN idea for a short period of time, and joined Kel in enacting it by being phi for a while. I really don't see the harm in it, but overuse of pseudo leet speak certainly shouts "noob" to me.

[Student of Trinity]

Originally Posted By: Sword of Higher Maths ^3+4

[T]here is plenty of depth in the sciences that you can reach without delving into physics.

Heresy!

To be quite honest, I've never even liked it when people change their PDNs, wacky characters or not. Except Alorael; somehow his posts are recognizable, and even his PDNs are quite recognizable. Maybe there have just been so many of them that I have learned to recognize the voice as opposed to the words. I look forward to seeing the mini-meme of the day at the top of our poster list.

But apart from Alorael, I have a hard time recognizing who people are, if they change their PDNs. It doesn't help to check post count or member number, because I never remember those. It doesn't often help to check the user's profile, because usually the person's e-mail address or whatever is yet another name.

This doesn't really bother me all that much, so if you really like changing your name, by all means do so. Just realize that it may well result in me, at least, having no idea at all who you are any more — or confusing you with somebody else — even if you've got thousands of posts and I've "known" you here for years. I'm old and doddery that way.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

Originally Posted By: Sword of Higher Maths ^3+4

[T]here is plenty of depth in the sciences that you can reach without delving into physics.

Heresy!

There are the soft sciences.

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

But apart from Alorael, I have a hard time recognizing who people are, if they change their PDNs. It doesn't help to check post count or member number, because I never remember those. It doesn't often help to check the user's profile, because usually the person's e-mail address or whatever is yet another name.

To be honest, I've always felt the same way, even carving the same mental exception in my head for Alorael due to his easy recognizability. Having steady avatars and signatures helps, but it isn't as helpful as I always wish it would be. Even well-known figures like Slarty I sometimes had difficulty recognizing when a PDN change came around.

That's why I've kept the same PDN for so long, and intend to continue doing so, except under special circumstances (eg I changed my name to Slartyking for a few days in honor of Slarty's departure). More than that, though, I hope my ending every PDN with "-king" helps out confused members.

[Alorael at Large]

I also have the same problem. Some of it is knowing community members less than I did years ago, but I think there's also more PDN turnover now. For that, I suppose, I really can't blame anyone but myself. No, actually I can blame TM and Slarty. I'll do that.

 

—Alorael, who has an inkling of why he's recognizable. Yes, his voice is clear, his prose is fluid, and all that. He also puts his name on every single post. You may notice it a couple of sentences back. He's noticed that others who do that are much easier for him to recognize, although it's still not as good as having a recognizable identity in the upper left corner of your posts.

[Actaeon]

You also have a static avatar and, if we're ever in doubt, we can check on the top of the postcount list.

 

Overall, I understand the allure of PDN changes. Nikki, in particular, makes novel use of them. The key is not to get too frustrated if someone doesn't recognize you or addresses you by your current display name.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Sword of Higher Maths ^3+4

I also have the same problem. Some of it is knowing community members less than I did years ago, but I think there's also more PDN turnover now. For that, I suppose, I really can't blame anyone but myself. No, actually I can blame TM and Slarty. I'll do that.

more than when? there was definitely at least as much PM jiggery-pokery back in the misc days

[Alorael at Large]

It may be hindsight and the fact that I knew all the participants better then, but I remember most of the name changing being temporary and more reversion to commonly used name.

 

Except for TM, obviously. And Alec. And Djur, a lot of the time. I think this is really a case of my memory supplying the names I thought of people by rather than PDNs, so...

 

—Alorael, who also had a somewhat easier time when member numbers were prominently displayed and smaller. He could keep those three digit identifiers in his head.

[Rowen]

I did a short jaunt some years ago where I used Spanish in my PDNs. Now I'm using my display name plus something I have done recently or use it to foreshadow.

 

EDIT: I too have/had a hard time recognizing people who change their PDN's (Alorael doesn't count due to the sig). After some time of not knowing who was who I memorized custom titles and used those. Anyone without a custom title and that changes their PDN is still a mystery to me.

[Erebus the Black]

Two things:

1) I thought of making and sharing a script that remembers the member number and allows you to set their names so when displayed you will always know who's posting. But I don't know where to start.

 

2) The main reason I keep changing PDNs is because the PDN I want is taken by someone (who IMHO no longer posts) and I haven't found a PDN that sits well with me yet. (although erasmus was close but then I looked it up)

[Actaeon]

Whether someone posts or not is pretty easy to prove factually, rather than opinion. I assume it is a Spiderweb game related name, or someone else wouldn't have it.

[Randomizer]

I did have trouble with one member that used an Alorael quote as his signature, but since it stayed the same it was distinguishable.

 

I do get frustrated with the newer members changing PDNs in no easily recognizable pattern.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

I assume it is a Spiderweb game related name, or someone else wouldn't have it.

"Nikki" is taken, which is why I have to put up with a stupid full stop after my name. I'm pretty sure "Nikki" is actually me (since I made a new account right after the board moved a few years ago), but I can't prove that.

[Randomizer]

UBB doesn't always let you have an old PDN back right away. Synergy complained about it during his Synergy67 period.

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: Nikki.

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

I assume it is a Spiderweb game related name, or someone else wouldn't have it.

"Nikki" is taken, which is why I have to put up with a stupid full stop after my name. I'm pretty sure "Nikki" is actually me (since I made a new account right after the board moved a few years ago), but I can't prove that.

It's actually someone who registered in November 2002 and hasn't been back since.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

Originally Posted By: Nikki.

Originally Posted By: Actaeon

I assume it is a Spiderweb game related name, or someone else wouldn't have it.

"Nikki" is taken, which is why I have to put up with a stupid full stop after my name. I'm pretty sure "Nikki" is actually me (since I made a new account right after the board moved a few years ago), but I can't prove that.

It's actually someone who registered in November 2002 and hasn't been back since.

Huh. I was sure I'd used the period-less name in the past, but I guess not. Thanks.

[Erebus the Black]

I was gunning for Avatar, could you please check?

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: אבדן

I was gunning for Avatar, could you please check?

That's actually exactly the same as Nikki. They registered in 2002, made few posts and disappeared. Someone did the same thing with TheAvatar in 2004.

Unfortunately, you are out of luck. Even though they have not been here for years, it would be an abuse of power to change their names. There are cases where such members do come back. Slarty is a good example.

[Erebus the Black]

I don't think I was aware of this site in 2002, so it probably can't be me, but could you send an email to Nikki (no ".") to check if the account owner is Nikki. on an alt email account? (if you receive an appropriate answer it's Nikki.)

And I will keep looking for a PDN I like

[Tyranicus]

It's not Nikki. The account in question was created almost a year before Nikki joined Spiderweb from an AOL IP address.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: אבדן

I don't think I was aware of this site in 2002, so it probably can't be me, but could you send an email to Nikki (no ".") to check if the account owner is Nikki. on an alt email account? (if you receive an appropriate answer it's Nikki.)

Er, also, if it was me on an alt account,, and I still had access to that account to recieve hypothetical emails from this board, I'd probably just change the name myself...