Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I found this poll rather shocking. I would question the legitimacy of the poll, but heck, look at how many people think the POTUS is muslim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Sarachim Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Because, you know, if you think it happened in 1766, well, the consequences are just too horrible to contemplate. Understanding history has very little to do with memorizing dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Yeah, it's kind of funny that they headline it with a minority of people not knowing the exact date, and give less attention to the more significant issue that almost as many people don't know who you guys declared independence from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We had a president that couldn't remember the date that Pearl Harbor was bombed and that president's father served during World War II. Worse was he said it in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith almost as many people don't know who you guys declared independence from Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: Shelagh Originally Posted By: Lilith almost as many people don't know who you guys declared independence from Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen. I knew that you guys were still bitter and planing to retake our lands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 On a note totally unrelated to Nikki's plot to recreate the British Empire, why is Britain's national anthem still God Save The [monarch gender title] and not Rule Britannia? I mean, one is a song about essentially ruling a quarter of the world, and the other is about a hereditary monarch who's a relic of an age that ended like a century ago. And it's the same with America. The Star Spangled Banner is a terrible national anthem. It should totally be America the Beautiful. The French and Russians managed to pick good national anthems, why can't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Sarachim Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius On a note totally unrelated to Nikki's plot to recreate the British Empire, why is Britain's national anthem still God Save The [monarch gender title] and not Rule Britannia? I mean, one is a song about essentially ruling a quarter of the world, and the other is about a hereditary monarch who's a relic of an age that ended like a century ago. And it's the same with America. The Star Spangled Banner is a terrible national anthem. It should totally be America the Beautiful. The French and Russians managed to pick good national anthems, why can't we? Well, for one thing, Britannia does not, in fact, rule the waves. The Star-Spangled Banner probably won by being written first, as it dates to the war of 1812, while America the Beautiful must not have been written until sometime after we conquered the West Coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius why is Britain's national anthem still God Save The [monarch gender title] and not Rule Britannia? Land of Hope and Glory is a better song than either of them. The lyrics are admittedly imperialistic, but then everyone believes that of us anyway, so why let that ruin a good tune? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I believe Hope and Glory is used as the English anthem, in sporting events where the various parts of the UK compete individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 would have been nice if the english had won Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Let's all try to avoid statements that could provoke nationalist hostilities, okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: Excalibur look at how many people think the POTUS is muslim. If I were a gambler, I'd bet that it's nothing compared to the number who think he's an idiot. Originally Posted By: Shelagh Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Arch-Mage Solberg Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius On a note totally unrelated to Nikki's plot to recreate the British Empire, why is Britain's national anthem still God Save The [monarch gender title] and not Rule Britannia? I mean, one is a song about essentially ruling a quarter of the world, and the other is about a hereditary monarch who's a relic of an age that ended like a century ago. And it's the same with America. The Star Spangled Banner is a terrible national anthem. It should totally be America the Beautiful. The French and Russians managed to pick good national anthems, why can't we? What exactly is wrong with the Star-Spangled Banner? I believe that it is a great National Anthem and should never be replaced. ALERT: HISTORICAL TEACHING IN PROGRESS The Star-Spangled Banner was written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 originally as a poem called The Defence of Fort McHenry. Key was onboard the HMS Minden on the night of September 13, 1814 during the Battle of Baltimore at Fort McHenry. He started writing the poem on the 15th and finished the next day. Key gave the poem to his brother-in-law Joseph Nicholson who saw that the words best fit the music of the melody The Anacreontic Song that was composed by English composer John Stafford Smith. The music was written in the mid 1760's and first published in 1778. In 1889, Benjamin Tracy made The Star-Spangled Banner the official song to be played during the raising of the flag. In 1916, President Wilson ordered that the song be played during military and other related occasions. On March 3, 1931, President Hoover signed a law making the Star-Spangled Banner the countries first National Anthem. America the Beautiful was originally a poem called Pikes Peak written by Katharine Lee Bates in 1895. It was later renamed America for publication The music (commonly known as the music for America the Beautiful) was composed by Samuel A. Ward in 1882 for another song titled O Mother Dear, Jerusalem. The words and music were not put together until 1910. It was only then that the title America the Beautiful was named. There are several things that America the Beautiful has going for it that The Star-Spangled Banner does not. 1. Easier to sing. 2. More melodic. 3. Invokes God. Post #568 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith Yeah, it's kind of funny that they headline it with a minority of people not knowing the exact date, and give less attention to the more significant issue that almost as many people don't know who you guys declared independence from touchéThe Star Spangled Banner lacks any memorable aspects in my opinion, so much so that I accidentally say "that my hair's too short" instead of "by the dawn's early light." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: *i Let's all try to avoid statements that could provoke nationalist hostilities, okay? Well, technically England isn't a sovereign state, so provoking English people isn't provoking nationalist hostilities*. It's more like provoking, ehh, there isn't really a US equivalent. Regional hostilities? South v. North hostilities? Something outdated and only used to create division, at any rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I'm confused, Solberg. Which song are you arguing for? Also, if you get a national anthem that invokes God, I want one that invokes God being Dead. Because while I'm not an atheist, I hold that they deserve the same respect and representation as the formally Abrahamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg There are several things that America the Beautiful has going for it that The Star-Spangled Banner does not. 1. Easier to sing. 2. More melodic. 3. Invokes God. Post #568 Using the above criteria you could pick Irving Berlin's God Bless America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Dantius: Semantics, as you said. I think the intent of my statement about where we don't want this discussion going is clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Sarachim Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg There are several things that America the Beautiful has going for it that The Star-Spangled Banner does not. 1. Easier to sing. 2. More melodic. 3. Invokes God. Post #568 The motto "In God we trust" comes from one of the rarely-sung later verses of The Star-Spangled Banner. Speaking of those unfortunate later verses: Originally Posted By: Wikipedia According to the historian Robin Blackburn, the words "the hireling and slave" allude to the fact that the British attackers had many ex-slaves in their ranks, who had been promised liberty and demanded to be placed in the battle line "where they might expect to meet their former masters." So yeah, the national anthem includes some gloating about winning a battle against our former slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall The Ratt Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I think there's something to be said about the Star Spangled Banner being a song about war and America the Beautiful being a peaceful song, but I'm not the one to say it because I like the Star Spangled Banner better. Most Americans, whether they think the government is terrible or some politician is terrible, are still fiercely patriotic to (about?) the idea of America. Also, at sporting events I think it's more of a pump-up to hear about the epic battles of yore than beautiful countryside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius The French ... managed to pick good national anthems, why can't we? Just a quick note: My French book last year had the verb "égorger" in it, which means "to slit the throat." This verb was included because it is part of the French national anthem. I mean, I have nothing against a gory national anthem, but let's not forget that the French one comes from a rather bloody point in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The Marseillaise is down right gory. And it's not all easy on the ear. It begins well, but then there are several lines in the middle that just kind of rumble along awkwardly. Then comes, "Aux armes, citoyens!", though, and it's a very strong finish. It's hard not to end up standing on the table tossing your hat and waving your sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I would rather we had Dopes and Tories or Rule Britannia than God Save the Queen, and wouldn't really have a problem with either. I used to really like Jerusalem and probably would choose that as my favourite replacement anthem, but it tends to get adopted by right-wingers and facists all too easily, which is a shame. (As an aside, the only left-wing group that I know to use it is the Labour Party, and the less said about those the better.) Poor Blake. Edit: Apparently, Jerusalem is used as the anthem for the English Cricket Team, so I guess that's something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity The Marseillaise is down right gory. And it's not all easy on the ear. It begins well, but then there are several lines in the middle that just kind of rumble along awkwardly. Then comes, "Aux armes, citoyens!", though, and it's a very strong finish. It's hard not to end up standing on the table tossing your hat and waving your sword. And watering your fields with blood would be a really poor idea. I mean, blood has the same saline content as seawater, and no farmer in their right mind would try and water his crops with seawater! Plus, it's impure blood. That's got to be even worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It's watered down with water. So, better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius . I mean, blood has the same saline content as seawater, and no farmer in their right mind would try and water his crops with seawater! So that's why deserted battlefields make such excellent barren lands, I always found this strange because I had the notion that human corpses would make good fertilizers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: Erasmus So that's why deserted battlefields make such excellent barren lands, I always found this strange because I had the notion that human corpses would make good fertilizers Last I checked, human bodies were composed of more than just blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeah, but it's 90% water. Saline water!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Arch-Mage Solberg Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES I'm confused, Solberg. Which song are you arguing for? In that post I wasn't arguing for any song, I was just stating some facts. If I had to choose, I would choose The Star-Spangled Banner. Originally Posted By: Sarachim Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg There are several things that America the Beautiful has going for it that The Star-Spangled Banner does not. 1. Easier to sing. 2. More melodic. 3. Invokes God. Post #568 The motto "In God we trust" comes from one of the rarely-sung later verses of The Star-Spangled Banner. The Star-Spangled Banner only mentions God in passing. America the Beautiful gives Him praise for His creative work. Post #570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Sarachim Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES I'm confused, Solberg. Which song are you arguing for? In that post I wasn't arguing for any song, I was just stating some facts. If I had to choose, I would choose The Star-Spangled Banner. Originally Posted By: Sarachim Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg There are several things that America the Beautiful has going for it that The Star-Spangled Banner does not. 1. Easier to sing. 2. More melodic. 3. Invokes God. Post #568 The motto "In God we trust" comes from one of the rarely-sung later verses of The Star-Spangled Banner. The Star-Spangled Banner only mentions God in passing. America the Beautiful gives Him praise for His creative work. Post #570 If America is more beautiful than other countries, I'm not sure if that actually reflects well on God, seeing as He created the ugly ones, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Rowen Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 America is a continent. The USA, Canada, and Mexico make up the north part of America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Arguably, America is two continents / the collective landmass of the western hemisphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Star-Spangled Banner O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved home and the war’s desolation. Blest with vict’ry and peace, may the Heav’n rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: “In God is our trust;” And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave! That's the last verse. In anthem form it only has the first verse and ignores the other three. America is often considered two continents in North America and one continent in South America, or so I've been told by South Americans. —Aorael, who can't get worked up about America not being synonymous with the United States. There are many countries that are "The United States of Place" or "The Something Republic of Somewhere" and everyone calls them Place or Somewhere. Why does the USA have to be different for picking a continent as its place? It's usually reasonably clear from context what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Hearing Hands —Aorael, who can't get worked up about America not being synonymous with the United States. There are many countries that are "The United States of Place" or "The Something Republic of Somewhere" and everyone calls them Place or Somewhere. Why does the USA have to be different for picking a continent as its place? It's usually reasonably clear from context what you mean. Wait, so are those people over there from Australia the continent, country, or island? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Australia is a part of a system of isles called Oceania (just as Japan is a part of Asia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Australia is also a continent, country, and island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Master1 Australia is also a continent, country, and island. That's a big island. Originally Posted By: Star-Spangled Banner Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! According to the Bible, aren't the kingdoms of the Earth controlled by Satan? So wouldn't that mean that they are praising Satan, making them devil worshipers? Originally Posted By: Star-Spangled Banner O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave! But weren't the Americans fleeing from British persecution? So wouldn't that make them cowards? And weren't there slaves during that time? So you had to be a certain race to be free? Doesn't that mean that not everyone was free? Originally Posted By: Star-Spangled Banner And this be our motto: “In God is our trust;” But according to the Bible, aren't lots of the behaviors in the U.S.(Gay Rights, abortion, etc.) against the laws of God? (Sabbath, Dietary Laws, etc.) I have no intention to offend anyone or be jailed, it's just that I question why certain things are said. And I'm using the Bible because that's the book you have to swear on when your in court, even though they never actually use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 On the note of independence, South Sudan formally declared its independence from Sudan today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka Originally Posted By: Master1 Australia is also a continent, country, and island. That's a big island. It's the largest island in the world. It's apparently also the smallest continent. (Thank you wikipedia.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Define "continent". I dare you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Continent- any mass of land deemed by enough people as a continent is a continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Then again, any mass of land deemed by enough people as a pickled onion is a pickled onion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Now "continent" doesn't even seem like a real word. Thanks for ruining words for me, everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 i guess we have been guilty of... verbal incontinence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 A continent is obviously non-discontinentuous surface. —Alorael, who has thereby determined that his floor is a continent, except for the carpet, which is a different continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 This is one of your more inspired PDNs, I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka Originally Posted By: Star-Spangled Banner Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! According to the Bible, aren't the kingdoms of the Earth controlled by Satan? So wouldn't that mean that they are praising Satan, making them devil worshipers?) The Bible also credits the Abrahmistic God with creating everything. That line deals with creation and preservation, not control. Semantics can actually be important. As for the US government and religion, don't get me started. As for continents, I would just define it as one of the seven accepted continents of earth. Then again, someone here will have to argue semantics there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Sarachim Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka As for continents, I would just define it as one of the seven accepted continents of earth. Then again, someone here will have to argue semantics there. Explain why Asia and Europe should be different continents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka According to the Bible, aren't the kingdoms of the Earth controlled by Satan? So wouldn't that mean that they are praising Satan, making them devil worshipers? I am not a Bible scholar. Where does this interpretation come from? Originally Posted By: Star-Spangled Banner O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave! But weren't the Americans fleeing from British persecution? So wouldn't that make them cowards? And weren't there slaves during that time? So you had to be a certain race to be free? Doesn't that mean that not everyone was free?The Americans weren't fleeing in the War of Independence, and the song isn't about that; it was written in the War of 1812. America fought, in large part, to be left alone and to conquer British territory. And in terms of the song, they were defending, not fleeing. The matter of slaves was a sensitive subject for America's love of freedom for the next fifty years, of course. America had a very mixed approach to freedom for all with an asterisk. Quote: And this be our motto: “In God is our trust;” But according to the Bible, aren't lots of the behaviors in the U.S.(Gay Rights, abortion, etc.) against the laws of God? (Sabbath, Dietary Laws, etc.) Firstly, the song is much older than a lot of controversies. There was no gay marriage, or discussion thereof, nor was abortion a common medical practice. Secondly, early American religion, both among the general public and among the Founding Fathers, was not much like current Protestant evangelists, or even mainstream American semi-non-religiousness. Trying to read it through modern religious views doesn't quite work right. —Alorael, who is glad you like the PDN. His every choice, when not just a throwaway name, is made for your delectation and approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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