PC: His real identity [SPOILER][G5]

[Nevermore]

Who is the PC?

What is his real life before met Rawal

[Acky]

Nobody knows.

[The Ratt]

This has been discussed before, look at that topic.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

The PC is whoever you want him/her to be. That's how all Spiderweb games work.

[Øther]

Quote: The PC is whoever you want him/her to be. That's how all Spiderweb games work.

 

True, but Nevermore wanted to know who the PC was before the game.(Even though nobody knows, though he didn't know that.)

[Alorael at Large]

Right. Most Spiderweb games give you a very vague and broad background. You are an exile. You are a soldier of Avernum or, perhaps, the Empire. You are a Shaper/rebel in training. G5 looks like it may give you a specific history, but it then doesn't.

 

—Alorael, who likes that aspect. Amnesia with a tremendous revelation later has become cliché. Amnesia with nothing behind the curtain is actually still pretty neat and exactly the kind of obnoxious yet clever trick you can get away with as a game designer.

[untitledkiller]

hmm..he might be the PC from G4 because in one of the endings dont the shapers keep you and study you? if you side with them at the end battle but dont have a good reputation

[Øther]

It said by clues throughout the game that you were found around some mountains, after you had lost your mind, and brought back to Rawal's hideout.

[Alorael at Large]

The G4 PC is one of the more popular theories, but the fact that your class can be anything, including either classes that weren't available before G4 or classes that weren't available in G4, means Jeff probably didn't intend it.

 

—Alorael, who also can't explain the botched forging with G4's PC. You're already powerful and effective by the end. Why would it suddenly go awry or why would you get geneforged again?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Mask of Effusive Ebullience

—Alorael, who also can't explain the botched forging with G4's PC. You're already powerful and effective by the end. Why would it suddenly go awry or why would you get geneforged again?

My interpretation was that you used the Geneforge, then used too many canisters and went loopy from that. The Geneforge in G5 restores you to the state you were in after you first used it, which is before you got strung out on canisters. Of course, it's also possible that the memory loss isn't related to your rampant self-shaping at all, and that something else was done to you.

[Alorael at Large]

No one else goes crazy and gets depowered from too many canisters. Glowing, crazy, and psychotic, yes. Weak in the head, no.

 

—Alorael, who now wonders if there is a vast, possibly left-wing conspiracy to plant evidence of your past in order to keep the truth from you: the vahnatai did it!

[The Ratt]

Oh god no, not Averforge.

[JD]

Obviously, there's no canonical answer to this, but my theory is that you are the G4 player character. The amnesia and loss of abilities are due to Shaper experiments - they want to learn how to undo Geneforging and/or canisters.

 

There would be a big incentive for Shapers to do this if they're looking for a peaceful solution. Their laws require killing any creations and any forged outsiders, but if they could restore a forged outsider to a "normal" state, then they'd have a bargaining chip to reconcile with that part of the rebellion.

 

(Or, the above argument was at least Rawal's justification for getting access to powerful agents like the PC.)

[Vicheron]

If the PC isn't a PC from the earlier GF games then he could be Phariton, Master Hoge, or Monarch. Phariton was crazy and performed all sorts of experiments, so he could have gotten in an accident. Master Hoge had a bad canister, which could have caused him to lose his memory. Monarch could have been attacked by one of his own rogues when he tried to escape.

[Acky]

The problem with the Hoge theory is that, because of is bad canister use, he was permently disconfigured and warped into somthing(if memory serves correctly) like a mini-Rotghroth. Or somthing else zombie-like and loseing hair/skin/flesh.

 

The Last Archon

[Ouroboros]

No he not losing anything but the canister seems have make his skin cracks everywhere and he is more insane and paranoid

[Milla]

Originally Posted By: BloodMoon

No he not losing anything but the canister seems have make his skin cracks everywhere and he is more insane and paranoid

No, I'll have to refute that. I remember clearly that his hair and teeth were falling out and when he's dies:

begintalknode 14;
state = -1;
nextstate = -1;
condition = 1;
question = "special";
text1 = "Master Hoge dies. Well, he doesn't so much die as fall apart. The magic holding him together falls out of balance. His limbs begin to twist and flail in unnatural, agonizing ways. He screams, a long, unbroken, wrenching howl.";

[Ouroboros]

The first effect did that.

[Waladil]

Ok... For some reason I dunno who Master Hoge is. Oh well.

 

I like the Monarch idea: One option in GF4 is that you convince Monarch to leave and head into Shaper lands (here.) Perhaps he just went further insane.

 

My personal theory is that you are a little like Shaila, the first mad enemy you see in GF4. For those of you who don't remember, she was driven insane by the Geneforge and started killing.

 

I think that when you were Shaped, you went insane, but more subtly insane than Shaila. You were Shaped, given basic training, and sent into Shaper lands by the rebels to create rogues and wreak havoc. Once there, you fully lost your mind and forgot everything.

 

By the way, to kind of kill this thread, even the Farseer (I forget her name) cannot figure out who you are and tells you that you are who your actions cause you to be. Therefore, this discussion is pointless.

[Lilith]

Yeah, but she also says that you once played a pivotal role in the war, so you're obviously not just some random freshly-Geneforged bozo.

[Alorael at Large]

You know, we've talked about how class incompatibilities rule out your being the protagonist of G4 (because you can be a Shaper class) and how the fact that you can be a servile rules out protagonists of prior Geneforges. Even without that, gender causes some problems. You can't be Monarch if you're an agent (probably), and you can't be Shaila if you're a lifecrafter. You can't be either if you're a servile, of course.

 

—Alorael, who maintains that you are a generic individual not encountered in prior games. It's also possible, however, that you are any of a large cast from previous games. You could be Shaila, Monarch, or a previous PC depending on your chosen class.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Pseudopods, I choose you!

You know, we've talked about how class incompatibilities rule out your being the protagonist of G4 (because you can be a Shaper class)

You can start the game dressed in a set of old Shaper robes that Mehken scrounged up. That hardly proves that you're a Shaper, just that you like the idea of being one.

[Alorael at Large]

The classes aren't quite identical. You really do start out as something demonstrably different from a lifecrafter from a mechanical standpoint. You probably start in the same scrounged apparel regardless of your class, although of course it doesn't show up on your character's sprites.

 

—Alorael, who would otherwise have to be overly impressed by Mehken's perspicacity in determining your particular strengths and weaknesses and then dressing you accordingly.

[Lilith]

Perhaps characters who prefer wearing Shaper attire are also those who were slightly more reluctant to take advantage of the rebels' methods and therefore slightly more discriminating in the use of canisters, thus explaining their slightly lower starting stats. Or, if you find that implausible, maybe the rebels who imagine themselves as Shapers were the most power-mad ones of all, and used canisters so excessively as to inflict greater lasting harm to themselves.

[DokEnkephalin]

Rawal probably knows much more about your character's identity than he lets on. I don't think maintaining control of you is his major motivator for keeping you in the dark, since he's already got a claw on your heart, it's more likely that he knows harboring you rather than destroying you would land him in seriously hot water if anyone were to know your identity. And I don't put it past him to take the opportunity to pick at your brain while you're in his custody, as demonstrated by his ability to tap selected parts of your memory when it suits him.

 

And Shaper clothes or not, he doesn't seem above breaking Shaper law for his advantage; the way he mentions your extensive reShaping, his nonchalance about your use of the Geneforge, his open eagerness to get canister technology, all indicate that he knows you were product of the rebellion.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: DokEnkephalin

Rawal probably knows much more about your character's identity than he lets on.

More than what he wrote down in his journal?

Dikiyoba.

[DokEnkephalin]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Originally Posted By: DokEnkephalin

Rawal probably knows much more about your character's identity than he lets on.

More than what he wrote down in his journal?

Dikiyoba.

Point, but counterpoint: There's an journal written in code that I haven't yet decrypted.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: DokEnkephalin

And Shaper clothes or not, he doesn't seem above breaking Shaper law for his advantage; the way he mentions your extensive reShaping, his nonchalance about your use of the Geneforge, his open eagerness to get canister technology, all indicate that he knows you were product of the rebellion.

From what I've seen of Rawal in the demo, I wouldn't be surprised if he were working on launching his own rebellion shortly after the current war ends. He already believes that since he's on the council, he is above the law and therefore can do no wrong.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: DokEnkephalin

Point, but counterpoint: There's an journal written in code that I haven't yet decrypted.

That journal appears to be something that Jeff was going to use as part of a quest reward, but he never finished writing it into the game.

[Øther]

In the scripts, I remember a line that said something about you, going by the directions of someone (don't remember who), messed with a page in the book and made it unreadable ( or something like that) and thats all I really know about it.

[DokEnkephalin]

There's a log entry in Repository C about a reShaped amnesiac taken from near Drypeak Mountains. I can't think of any one character that could be from GF2. Also interesting that it states that the Geneforge in the Foundry Core was knowingly developed by Rawal. The chronology isn't clear, but it's likely that's where Rawal collected Geneforge and canister data and equipment, cleaning up after Barzhal much as Barzhal cleaned up after Sucia Island.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Good point. That would explain his relatively large knowledge of canisters as well as his ability to create a working, albeit weak, geneforge. It also explains how he first came in contact with you. The final remaining mystery is who you were before the shaping. My guess would be a rebel recruit, based on Greta's knowledge of you. My explanation of Alwan's recognizing you is this: He sees someone who has been extensively shaped, and, in his current state, connects you to the PC from GF4.

[Alorael at Large]

That's still the impression I get. I think most of the recognition you get during the game isn't for who you are so much as what you are. That's either a shaped rebel or ex-rebel recruit or, more specifically, a PC very powerful, canister guzzling, skill point spending experienced, shaped monster.

 

—Alorael, who has come to the sudden realization that canisters obviously contain skribbane as an active ingredient. It's all in the glowing green.

[Dikiyoba]

Quote:

—Alorael, who has come to the sudden realization that canisters obviously contain skribbane as an active ingredient. It's all in the glowing green.

Uh-oh. Dikiyoba can see only one outcome resulting from this: Goldenking vs. Alorael. FIGHT!

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Terrible Engineering

That's still the impression I get. I think most of the recognition you get during the game isn't for who you are so much as what you are. That's either a shaped rebel or ex-rebel recruit or, more specifically, a PC very powerful, canister guzzling, skill point spending experienced, shaped monster.

If you're merely a heavily shaped recruit, that still doesn't explain why the Dera Oracle tells you that you once played a pivotal role in the war.

[BlueRivets]

The PC from G5 is most likely the PC from G3. Greta's reaction might confirm this when she sees you. Litalia's reaction definitely confirms is considering she wanted to put past grudges behind when she spent the whole of G3 trying to kill you/mess with you. On top of that the PC from G3 most definitely played a pivotal role in the war. The only issue i have with my theory is that I was pretty certain that Monarch was the PC from G3. Although both of these theories could potentially be combined showing that the PC from G5 was the PC from G3 and Monarch.

[Nenayar]

Well.... so G5 assumes that in G4 PC released the Unbound, being on the rebels side. Maybe he was so terrified of what he had done (like pilots of Hiroshima bombers) and his mind, already shuttered by high quantity of canisters, just blocked this memories (it is called Rimsky-Korsakov syndrome).

 

So in G5 you have a chance to redeem yourself like Nameless One in Planscape: Toment...

 

... or to set the world on fire spreading the heresy of rebellion all over the world, burning cities, releasing viruses and finally getting your soul into Hell

[Acky]

Really now? The Rebels are monsters, true, but the Shapers are worse. Just look at what Taygen was willing to do to destroy the Rebellion; virtually bringing in Armageddon by destroying all creations, even loyal ones. Quite honestly, the Rebels have good intentions, while the Shapes only care about their power and control over Terrestia.

 

The Last Archon

[Triumph]

Doesn't the G5 PC seem to recognize the Geneforge when he sees it? And seems to know how to use it (realizes to go over and touch it)?

 

This means the PC is someone familiar with the G4 era Geneforge - which was the first Geneforge to be operated by touch with a bare hand.

 

The G1 forge needed special gloves, as did the G2 forge that the Drakons made in imitation. The G3 forge required immersion by a Drakon. The G4 forge, for humans and serviles, was the first Geneforge that one used by touching it with a bare hand.

 

This might be reading too much significance into the G5 PC's apparent familiarity with this kind of forge, but it seems to support to me to support the idea that the PC is someone one who had been shaped by the rebel G4 forge, and thus very possibly the G4 PC. It would at least rule out anyone who hadn't ever encountered the fourth-generation Geneforge.

 

Unless I'm missing something really obvious.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Taygen is not a good example of a Shaper. Note how most major players in the game are against what he does. I believe that both Rawal and Alwan send you to sabotage his work.

By all means, disagree with the Shapers, but just don't use Taygen as the classic example.

[Taliesin]

I don't see how Taygen's Armageddon is any worse than Ghaldring's. Both involve slaughtering innocents on an epic scale. And if you want to analyze the "intentions" on each side... seriously, the only difference between the extremists on either side is that the Shapers have demonstrated their ability to bring peace and prosperity (flawed as it may have been).

 

The only moral/ethical choice is really a reform movement within the Shapers themselves, IMHO. Or else the rebels could settle for a G2-Awakened-style compromise. They certainly have the power to do so.

[Acky]

Originally Posted By: Angelic

Doesn't the G5 PC seem to recognize the Geneforge when he sees it? And seems to know how to use it (realizes to go over and touch it)?

This means the PC is someone familiar with the G4 era Geneforge - which was the first Geneforge to be operated by touch with a bare hand.

The G1 forge needed special gloves, as did the G2 forge that the Drakons made in imitation. The G3 forge required immersion by a Drakon. The G4 forge, for humans and serviles, was the first Geneforge that one used by touching it with a bare hand.

This might be reading too much significance into the G5 PC's apparent familiarity with this kind of forge, but it seems to support to me to support the idea that the PC is someone one who had been shaped by the rebel G4 forge, and thus very possibly the G4 PC. It would at least rule out anyone who hadn't ever encountered the fourth-generation Geneforge.

Unless I'm missing something really obvious.

You might be. The Geneforge is based off the idea of the Canister(or the other way around. Either way, they have very similar componets.) Any PC, or any Shaper, has a compulsion to touch the canisters. If they are made of similar ingrediants, than any person would feel a cumpulstion to touch it. Also, in G1 the player has an extremely strong desire to touch the Geneforge without the gloves.

Edit: Taygen wants to exterminate any and all creations, which easily make up the bulk of Terrestia's population. As flawed as the Drakons are, they hate a people(Shapers), not an entire species. The Drakons want to eliminate the Shapers, and then replace them with themselves. Huge difference.


The Last Archon

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

If you're merely a heavily shaped recruit, that still doesn't explain why the Dera Oracle tells you that you once played a pivotal role in the war.

You were recruited, you were augmented, you played a pivotal role in the war. It can't all be up to Greta, Alwan, Miranda, Ghaldring, and the PCs.

—Alorael, who knows a few other NPCs could go on the list. It's not enough to account for all the pivotal roles, particularly if you include a wide definition of pivotal.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan

As flawed as the Drakons are, they hate a people(Shapers), not an entire species. The Drakons want to eliminate the Shapers, and then replace them with themselves. Huge difference.

I don't like Taygen any more than you do, but the Drakons are just as bad. One could compare the purity agent to the Unbound, for example. Pretty early in G5 you hear about Unbound roaming around, destroying everything and everyone they see - and that means mostly civilians. That hardly sounds like the very specific targets you mentioned the Drakons hating.

So basically it all boils down to this: Drakons hate Shapers, and are willing to cause any amount of collateral damage to eliminate them. Taygen - not the Shapers as a whole - hates Drakons, and is willing to cause any amount of collateral damage to eliminate them.

Fair analysis?

[A less presumptuous name.]

Seems to be accurate, in a nutshell. Again, people must make the distinction between taygen and shapers

[Acky]

Fairer. But Taygen is a Shaper. The only difference is that he is an extreme Shaper. You might as well be saying that Rawal isn't a Shaper because he's not helping out in the war.

 

The Last Archon

[Nenayar]

What do you mean "extreme shaper"?

You mean that all shapers want to destroy creations???

They want to stop rebellion because it is their duty after all. They are paid taxes for that, you know? They are government and rebels are terrorists. End.

[Dikiyoba]

So, what, governments should be allowed to kill citzens at will just because they might cause problems one day and the citizens should just accept that? The rebellion wouldn't have happened if the Shapers hadn't tried to fry the Obeyers, Awakened, and loyal drayks along with the nutty Takers and drayks.

 

Dikiyoba.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Not quite that simple.

However, I would say that Taygen is on the line between true Shaper and extremist. When your own kind begin to treat you as an outcast, you begin to hmmmm become, what's the word. Oh yes, an outcast.

[Acky]

....And that wouldn't of happened if the Shapers hadn't of simply abandoned them in the first place. Good point Diki.

 

Shapers want to subdue the rebellion by all means necessary. Taygen is an extremist because he wants to destroy all creations. Not all of the Rebellion are creations and not all Creations are Rebels.

 

The Last Archon