Legendery design for future SW games

[WLDD]

- Well its not really legendery (it is for me since I've been

writing the text in my notebook for a week but title of topic

can get atention of readers so that is the reason)

 

- I would really like to see your comments and thoughs but only

after you have read the whole topic

 

- Since this is my first topic or post on this forum I will

introduce my self to you

 

* I am 18 years old guy I am currently in highschool with

pretty good grades

* In future, I am planing to be game designer, reason for that

is beacause you can create perfect world on your own, so it

is like living two lifes when you are playing games, well

don't forget to live real life too

* First time I started playing Sw games was I think seven

years ago when Avernum IV came out

 

- So here is the list of things that I would like to see in

future SW games:

 

1. First of all I would like to see a map, the whole overview so

I can know where I am specialy on start of the game. It could

be unexplored map which get explored when you discover

unexplored areas.

 

2. I know this would require hard artwork but I really don't

like when I see characters cross the half of the map with

just two steps. I would like to see characters runing on the

screen. Also I know this isn't posible with you current game

design but it would be good if characters could move in all

directions (not just in 4-8). One more thing about graphic is

fire or frost bolts. It is kinda stupid for me when clouds of

fire fall down from the sky and do damage. Please make them

projectile and missle art.

 

3. And about food. You could make some better use of eat like

some rare food that gives random buffs, health, mana and

vitality restoration when you eat it. I don't know for other

people but it would be good if characters will have to

consume one peace of food for every 1-3 hours or their

strength will reduce. Guys seriously, add more things like

skribbane, I am adicted to that !!!

 

4. Questing. Make quest much easier to find which one you have

to do or you are currently doing. I find it realy anoying

when I have to come back and search around for 15 minutes

for random quest giver, to return old or get new quests, you

should ut marks for all quest givers and the location of the

quests (same thing for ladders and stairs on map.

 

5. Buying houses. In my opinion that is really great part of the

game. Maybe you could make whole ares with houses available

for buying. To make houses upgradeable (when you find some

rare stuff around the world, you could return to your home and

make part of it like statues beatiful lamps much more ). To

be able to aquire servants for your home that watch on farms

near the house and produce food which you can sell to NPC.

Make more options for home, like turing in into caffe where

NPC would offten come and give you some quests and gold. Nice

thing would be if you can encounter quests in your home for

whole play time like some thiefs that try to get in and steal

from you. Maybe to make some options to buy areeas on which

you can build you own house with materials you find around the

world.

 

6. My favourite thing in the game, the romance. It is so lovely.

I would like to see more of that in future games. Maybe to

bring a wife or girl you like into your new home (just for

kisses, nothing more ). Ha ha and what was about the spider?

One that fall in love with you in Avernum series. Sadly you

made no option in the end to return to her I though much

about this. Game could even start with romance.

Example: you have been separated from your love in the

begining. Throwed down to underworld or another realm and

you will do anything to find your love or maybe you will

find another one and forget about first love. Depends on what

you do trough the game, so even ends can be different.

 

7. I also liked the funny itemslike the one from A:EFTP that

gives you flight ability and what about the legendery swords?

I think it name was Demon Slayer from avernum series. Please

add much things like that ones!

 

8. Descriptions in game. You made a lot of that but still I have

no idea which stats I should increase to some classes...

I don't know how summones creatures or turets work, with more

inteligence they have more power or what?

 

9. Level is cap is just bad, it kills all of the future funn in

the game. I don't know what others think about it but I just

hate it.

 

10. I am also big hater of the out/indoor style. That is why I

will allways like Avernum games more than any other SW game.

Well I really liked A:EFTP but its fight encounters where

like lets apear nowhere and fight and come back to place

where you have been. Here is the one game that Jeff and

others who works in SW could check for great ideas. Its name

is Throne of Darkness.

 

11. Make some damn use for those bags of meal and those sticks

I find them all around world, they have no sale value or are

used for quests... I don't remember where but in one game

I've found 30 bags in one container.

 

12. I don't have to say anything about the sounds, but the bow

like heart striker (I think its the right name) had great

hit sound, it gave really good feel to me when I hitted the

enemy. Maybe you could add more special sounds legendery

weapons and items.

 

13. One thing that would make SW really popular in an online game

where players could control one character at the time and

decide their faction on start to be rebel, pact soldier,

corrution soldier, or neutral one that can work for all three.

Or all start neutral and have to chose their faction on early

levels. Well online game will require level cap or maybe not.

I don't like it story mode. Rare items can be found in high

level dungeons in which you enter only with group. Groups can

have max of 2-players. You could also make some city raids

where faction boss drop some good weapons or funny items. Raid

group can have like 10 or 15 players or also like 5 because

that would be realy long turn waiting in combat mode.

 

14. I though about some quests in which you can get powerful allys

or friends (by saving their lifes or helping them kill someone)

So later in game when you fall in trouble in main quest and

there is no way out, you ally will apear and give you buff or

simply help you win the fight or you get huge strength and be

able to defeat the enemy. That can really give adrenaline rush

to players. That happened to me in some games like in this one

named Black & White 2 in final island / fight..

 

15. One thing that would be great improvement is making an ultimate

spell for each class that deals much more damage with extra

mana / vitality cost. Spell can have specialy art and sound

efects.

 

16. That is all guys, I hope you like it and comment, well my

english is not really good but I am still in highschool and I'm

working to improve it.

 

* Love is one reason to live*

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

Lets take everything that makes it unique and give it generic stuff you see everywhere!\

except 13.

 

13 is awesome.

[Xaiya]

1. First of all I would like to see a map, the whole overview so

I can know where I am specialy on start of the game. It could

be unexplored map which get explored when you discover

unexplored areas.

Uh, isn't this already done to an extent? The later Avernum games and the Geneforge games all have an overal map, and all games have more detailed maps per area that you fill in as you explore.

 

2. I know this would require hard artwork but I really don't

like when I see characters cross the half of the map with

just two steps. I would like to see characters runing on the

screen. Also I know this isn't posible with you current game

design but it would be good if characters could move in all

directions (not just in 4-8). One more thing about graphic is

fire or frost bolts. It is kinda stupid for me when clouds of

fire fall down from the sky and do damage. Please make them

projectile and missle art.

There's nothing wrong with a grid design. If you really don't like it, there's Geneforge. The last comment with the sprites just sounds like a personal opinion of yours rather than a real suggestion.

 

3. And about food. You could make some better use of eat like

some rare food that gives random buffs, health, mana and

vitality restoration when you eat it. I don't know for other

people but it would be good if characters will have to

consume one peace of food for every 1-3 hours or their

strength will reduce. Guys seriously, add more things like

skribbane, I am adicted to that !!!

A hunger system can be done well, or it can be annoying. Most likely, it'd end up being annoying. Jeff did hunger in Exile, so there's a small possibility it might reappear, in any case.

 

5. Buying houses. In my opinion that is really great part of the

game. Maybe you could make whole ares with houses available

for buying. To make houses upgradeable (when you find some

rare stuff around the world, you could return to your home and

make part of it like statues beatiful lamps much more ). To

be able to aquire servants for your home that watch on farms

near the house and produce food which you can sell to NPC.

Make more options for home, like turing in into caffe where

NPC would offten come and give you some quests and gold. Nice

thing would be if you can encounter quests in your home for

whole play time like some thiefs that try to get in and steal

from you. Maybe to make some options to buy areeas on which

you can build you own house with materials you find around the

world.

Having a house where you could dump all of your crap sounds actually pretty useful, but nothing horribly elaborate like you described. Jeff is but one programmer.

 

8. Descriptions in game. You made a lot of that but still I have

no idea which stats I should increase to some classes...

I don't know how summones creatures or turets work, with more

inteligence they have more power or what?

Figuring things out is one of the neat aspects of RPGs. You can't have everything done for you. There's plenty of people analyzing everything on the forums if you really want help, though.

 

9. Level is cap is just bad, it kills all of the future funn in

the game. I don't know what others think about it but I just

hate it.

I'm pretty sure that the caps are soft rather than hard, and for the ones with hard caps, you'll probably never reach them. Of course, I might be wrong since I haven't played the newest games, but this is the case for the early Avernum and Geneforge games.

 

10. I am also big hater of the out/indoor style. That is why I

will allways like Avernum games more than any other SW game.

Well I really liked A:EFTP but its fight encounters where

like lets apear nowhere and fight and come back to place

where you have been. Here is the one game that Jeff and

others who works in SW could check for great ideas. Its name

is Throne of Darkness.

The Avernum/Exile games actually originally had outdoor sections, specifically 1-3/Blades. You can also see your enemies approaching, so random encounters aren't entirely random and potentially avoidable if you know how.

 

11. Make some damn use for those bags of meal and those sticks

I find them all around world, they have no sale value or are

used for quests... I don't remember where but in one game

I've found 30 bags in one container.

Useless items are part of the charm in the amount of detail Jeff puts into his games. Just don't pick up those unsellable trowels.

 

13. One thing that would make SW really popular in an online game

where players could control one character at the time and

decide their faction on start to be rebel, pact soldier,

corrution soldier, or neutral one that can work for all three.

Or all start neutral and have to chose their faction on early

levels. Well online game will require level cap or maybe not.

I don't like it story mode. Rare items can be found in high

level dungeons in which you enter only with group. Groups can

have max of 2-players. You could also make some city raids

where faction boss drop some good weapons or funny items. Raid

group can have like 10 or 15 players or also like 5 because

that would be realy long turn waiting in combat mode.

Uh, no. I'm sure there's dozens of links someone could provide that could explain no better than I could for SWOnline, so I won't. As for factions, have you played Geneforge 1, 2, and 5, by any chance?

 

That's pretty much all I have to comment on here, though I should add that Jeff rarely reads the forums. It's unlikely that he'll see this, so the most you'll get is discussion by other forum members. If there's something you really, really want to tell Jeff, there's a section on the website that'll let you know where you can send your suggestions so he'll actually see them.

 

Besides that, welcome, and leave your unneeded sanity at the door! What is your native language, out of curiosity?

[Questionably Legal]

 

I'm pretty sure that the caps are soft rather than hard, and for the ones with hard caps, you'll probably never reach them. Of course, I might be wrong since I haven't played the newest games, but this is the case for the early Avernum and Geneforge games.

 

Avadon has a hard cap at lvl 30, which you reach significantly before the end of the game. It's very irritating.

 

And houses would be great to have, I really liked having quarters for my character in Avadon.

[springacres]

Yeah, I would prefer if the cap in Avadon were more like the one in A:EftP, where after level 30 you still gain levels but only gain 1 stat point every 5 levels.

 

You can buy houses in Avadon 2 - in fact one of the medals requires owning two of them.

[Kelandon]

Sounds like the original poster wants to play Avernum 6! That takes care of 1, 3 (in part), 4 (I think), 7 (I think), 9, 10, 11, and sort of 14 sometimes.

 

Or Avernum 3. Avernum 3 does 1 (I think), part of 2, 5, 7 (I think), and 9 (sort of).

 

You'll have to go to Avadon 2 for 6 and sort of 15 (and another dose of 5, if you want).

 

You're out of luck on 8 (all the hardcore players on these forums want this, but Jeff doesn't do it) and 13 (the newbies all want it but the hardcore players on these forums don't, and neither does Jeff).

[WLDD]

Uh, isn't this already done to an extent? The later Avernum games and the Geneforge games all have an overal map, and all games have more detailed maps per area that you fill in as you explore.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with a grid design. If you really don't like it, there's Geneforge. The last comment with the sprites just sounds like a personal opinion of yours rather than a real suggestion.

 

 

A hunger system can be done well, or it can be annoying. Most likely, it'd end up being annoying. Jeff did hunger in Exile, so there's a small possibility it might reappear, in any case.

 

 

Having a house where you could dump all of your crap sounds actually pretty useful, but nothing horribly elaborate like you described. Jeff is but one programmer.

 

 

Figuring things out is one of the neat aspects of RPGs. You can't have everything done for you. There's plenty of people analyzing everything on the forums if you really want help, though.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the caps are soft rather than hard, and for the ones with hard caps, you'll probably never reach them. Of course, I might be wrong since I haven't played the newest games, but this is the case for the early Avernum and Geneforge games.

 

 

The Avernum/Exile games actually originally had outdoor sections, specifically 1-3/Blades. You can also see your enemies approaching, so random encounters aren't entirely random and potentially avoidable if you know how.

 

 

Useless items are part of the charm in the amount of detail Jeff puts into his games. Just don't pick up those unsellable trowels.

 

 

Uh, no. I'm sure there's dozens of links someone could provide that could explain no better than I could for SWOnline, so I won't. As for factions, have you played Geneforge 1, 2, and 5, by any chance?

 

That's pretty much all I have to comment on here, though I should add that Jeff rarely reads the forums. It's unlikely that he'll see this, so the most you'll get is discussion by other forum members. If there's something you really, really want to tell Jeff, there's a section on the website that'll let you know where you can send your suggestions so he'll actually see them.

 

Besides that, welcome, and leave your unneeded sanity at the door! What is your native language, out of curiosity?

 

Well all you have said, I've just written thing that I would like to see in future games and all I want is reaction from others to that

[WLDD]

Yeah, I would prefer if the cap in Avadon were more like the one in A:EftP, where after level 30 you still gain levels but only gain 1 stat point every 5 levels.

 

You can buy houses in Avadon 2 - in fact one of the medals requires owning two of them.

And for that, I know I have played all games after Avernum IV came out from SW

[WLDD]

Sounds like the original poster wants to play Avernum 6! That takes care of 1, 3 (in part), 4 (I think), 7 (I think), 9, 10, 11, and sort of 14 sometimes.

 

Or Avernum 3. Avernum 3 does 1 (I think), part of 2, 5, 7 (I think), and 9 (sort of).

 

You'll have to go to Avadon 2 for 6 and sort of 15 (and another dose of 5, if you want).

 

You're out of luck on 8 (all the hardcore players on these forums want this, but Jeff doesn't do it) and 13 (the newbies all want it but the hardcore players on these forums don't, and neither does Jeff).

Avernum 6 is truly my favourite game from Spiderweband I am kinda not newbie in games, only on this forum.

[stranger]

Funny that you mention Throne of Darkness; I remember playing about 5 minutes of the demo when it came out.

 

What a terrible game, I can't believe someone else even remembers it.

 

Point 8 - These are investigated by players, check each game's Strategy Central thread.

[WLDD]

Uh, isn't this already done to an extent? The later Avernum games and the Geneforge games all have an overal map, and all games have more detailed maps per area that you fill in as you explore.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with a grid design. If you really don't like it, there's Geneforge. The last comment with the sprites just sounds like a personal opinion of yours rather than a real suggestion.

 

 

A hunger system can be done well, or it can be annoying. Most likely, it'd end up being annoying. Jeff did hunger in Exile, so there's a small possibility it might reappear, in any case.

 

 

Having a house where you could dump all of your crap sounds actually pretty useful, but nothing horribly elaborate like you described. Jeff is but one programmer.

 

 

Figuring things out is one of the neat aspects of RPGs. You can't have everything done for you. There's plenty of people analyzing everything on the forums if you really want help, though.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the caps are soft rather than hard, and for the ones with hard caps, you'll probably never reach them. Of course, I might be wrong since I haven't played the newest games, but this is the case for the early Avernum and Geneforge games.

 

 

The Avernum/Exile games actually originally had outdoor sections, specifically 1-3/Blades. You can also see your enemies approaching, so random encounters aren't entirely random and potentially avoidable if you know how.

 

 

Useless items are part of the charm in the amount of detail Jeff puts into his games. Just don't pick up those unsellable trowels.

 

 

Uh, no. I'm sure there's dozens of links someone could provide that could explain no better than I could for SWOnline, so I won't. As for factions, have you played Geneforge 1, 2, and 5, by any chance?

 

That's pretty much all I have to comment on here, though I should add that Jeff rarely reads the forums. It's unlikely that he'll see this, so the most you'll get is discussion by other forum members. If there's something you really, really want to tell Jeff, there's a section on the website that'll let you know where you can send your suggestions so he'll actually see them.

 

Besides that, welcome, and leave your unneeded sanity at the door! What is your native language, out of curiosity?

My native language is Serbish and I am from Serbia

[Aran]

Most likely, it'd end up being annoying. Jeff did hunger in Exile

 

And lo, it was annoying.

 

I'm not on board with how much difficulty has been nerfed in the more recent games, but I don't really miss hunger. It wasn't a challenge to get food; just an irritating chore.

[Kelandon]

I'm not on board with how much difficulty has been nerfed in the more recent games

o_O

 

From the perspective of someone who's played on Hard or Torment since BoA at least, difficulty has ramped up rather dramatically in the more recent games.

[WLDD]

And lo, it was annoying.

 

I'm not on board with how much difficulty has been nerfed in the more recent games, but I don't really miss hunger. It wasn't a challenge to get food; just an irritating chore.

I don't know for you, but for me, food desire should be in games. (with pretty hard time finding it )

[adc.]

I don't know for you, but for me, food desire should be in games. (with pretty hard time finding it )

 

 

Starve yourself out with this game till the end of your days.

 

Hunger is annoying but realistic, so it's 50-50

-----

-Nightwatcher

[Painted Lady]

Nethergate has hunger if I remember correctly.

[Alorael at Large]

Exile through Nethergate have food requirements as a basic element of the game. It's essentially a trivial annoyance after the very beginning in all of them, with the two exceptions being a chapter of Exile 2 (Dark Waters!) and a chapter of Nethergate (Annwn). A6 brought back food requirements, but food is never, ever a problem. The real issue I have with requiring food is unless you build a game around balancing the need for food with something (time lost for other important activities, risk, other expenses, whatever) it's just an irritation without meaning.

 

—Alorael, who otherwise compliments Dartzndolls on his English. It's more fluent than many American teenagers' online writing. Which is a compliment to Serbian education and/or Dartzndolls's hard work and a sad commentary on kids these days.

[WLDD]

Exile through Nethergate have food requirements as a basic element of the game. It's essentially a trivial annoyance after the very beginning in all of them, with the two exceptions being a chapter of Exile 2 (Dark Waters!) and a chapter of Nethergate (Annwn). A6 brought back food requirements, but food is never, ever a problem. The real issue I have with requiring food is unless you build a game around balancing the need for food with something (time lost for other important activities, risk, other expenses, whatever) it's just an irritation without meaning.

 

—Alorael, who otherwise compliments Dartzndolls on his English. It's more fluent than many American teenagers' online writing. Which is a compliment to Serbian education and/or Dartzndolls's hard work and a sad commentary on kids these days.

I am grateful for that

[WLDD]

Its sad that nobody pay atention to 7, 12 and 15

[Kelandon]

Its sad that nobody pay atention to 7, 12 and 15

I mean, the games are full of high-end items and spells. It's just that there aren't game-breaking items and spells because Jeff has decided that he wants to control the level of challenge for fights and make sure that they're always a little hard.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure that was a good decision. I liked being able to explore and fight monsters that were the wrong level for me from time to time and then come back totally overpowered for the particular quest that I was on, back in Avernum 1. And there were spells that were grossly overpowered (Divine Warrior) in Avernum 1 and 2. And there are still stats that are grossly overpowered (Dexterity) in some later games (Avadon 1). And that's kind of fun. But Jeff is trying to move towards a very tactical, balanced, linear game. It's sort of a bold move for someone who started doing something rather different, really.

 

Come to think of it, it seems to me that when there are spells that are totally overpowered, it's usually blessing spells (Divine Warrior, Call of the Frenzy), not direct damage spells (meh Divine Retribution or Arcane Blow). Maybe I'm wrong about that, because I frankly don't use high-level direct damage spells all that much, but I'm really accustomed to casting Bless and Haste before combat.

[Triumph]

*still wishing Jeff would bring back Divine Thud*

[Randomizer]

Shockwave with Divine Thud for the survivors was a good combination. Then all that was left was figuring out how to maximize the loot from those neat little piles.

[WLDD]

I mean, the games are full of high-end items and spells. It's just that there aren't game-breaking items and spells because Jeff has decided that he wants to control the level of challenge for fights and make sure that they're always a little hard.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure that was a good decision. I liked being able to explore and fight monsters that were the wrong level for me from time to time and then come back totally overpowered for the particular quest that I was on, back in Avernum 1. And there were spells that were grossly overpowered (Divine Warrior) in Avernum 1 and 2. And there are still stats that are grossly overpowered (Dexterity) in some later games (Avadon 1). And that's kind of fun. But Jeff is trying to move towards a very tactical, balanced, linear game. It's sort of a bold move for someone who started doing something rather different, really.

 

Come to think of it, it seems to me that when there are spells that are totally overpowered, it's usually blessing spells (Divine Warrior, Call of the Frenzy), not direct damage spells (meh Divine Retribution or Arcane Blow). Maybe I'm wrong about that, because I frankly don't use high-level direct damage spells all that much, but I'm really accustomed to casting Bless and Haste before combat.

Well if I rember good Demon Slayer wasn't op weapon, but still its name was awsome and u had to do quest chain before obtaining it. And for the spells I mean, the spell that deals single target damage with huge burst. Well I know that Jeff drasticaly balanced avadon 2, but even with that Tinker Mage is kinda op since you can easily do anything without minions.

[Kelandon]

Well if I rember good Demon Slayer wasn't op weapon, but still its name was awsome and u had to do quest chain before obtaining it. And for the spells I mean, the spell that deals single target damage with huge burst. Well I know that Jeff drasticaly balanced avadon 2, but even with that Tinker Mage is kinda op since you can easily do anything without minions.

It is true that there aren't the same kinds of quest chains to get weapons in the later games as there were to get Demonslayer. You do some fetching of major items in Avernum 6 (including Demonslayer), but there's no "wander around and find 3 pieces and then reforge it" in quite the same way anywhere. And it would be cool if there were, especially if it proves necessary for a fight, as with Garzahd in Avernum 2.

[WLDD]

It is true that there aren't the same kinds of quest chains to get weapons in the later games as there were to get Demonslayer. You do some fetching of major items in Avernum 6 (including Demonslayer), but there's no "wander around and find 3 pieces and then reforge it" in quite the same way anywhere. And it would be cool if there were, especially if it proves necessary for a fight, as with Garzahd in Avernum 2.

Well I am sure you know what you are talking, you are an old member, but I haven't played Avernum 2, I started from Avernum 4 with nasty shades He he before I founf way to destry them I've usually dived to kill them and failed