Tenderfoot Thahd Eternal Phoenix Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Hello all, I've been a fan of Spiderweb Software since the 1990s. I almost never post anything here. Recently, however, I have wanted to ask the community what they thought about the two-tiered pricing of Spiderweb games. As I am sure you are all aware, most of the more recent games sell for $15 or $20 on the official Spiderweb site. The same games are priced at $9.99 on Apple's App Store and on Steam. I have read Jeff's blog posts on the subject, and understand that people are unlikely to make a casual purchase on the App Store or Steam if the price is above $9.99. Furthermore, I greatly wish to support Jeff and his team so that there are many more Spiderweb games in the future. For that reason alone, I am inclined to pay the higher prices. This seems to be a limited "pay what you wish" approach, but with only two choices: "casual gamer" price and "support Spiderweb" price. I have always felt that these games are worth every penny that I spend on them. I also appreciate that prices are lower than what they used to be - I remember paying around $30 for each game in the past. At the same time, however, I should note that I am not made of money - there are many other things that I need to save it for. What are your thoughts on all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Member ID 41? WOW, you *are* an oldbie! I really don't care about the multiple prices. I don't really think it hurts anyone. People can go where they want, pay what they want, or decide they don't currently have the money and not pay at all. No one is forced to buy Jeff's games, and someone doesn't buy now, well, maybe next year or the year after they'll be better off financial and can buy then. It's Jeff's product, he can sell it however he pleases. The only issue at all, in my opinion, is the upset people who buy direct from SW and then find out the games are cheaper somewhere else. Such posts show up often enough that maybe Jeff should put a link / note on the SW sell page noting that such-and-such a game is available on Steam (or GOG, whatever that is?) for X dollars? Just to avoid having people who come to SW page, buy the game, then find out its cheaper elsewhere, and grumble-bumble about it? Such a measure would undercut people's ability to complain, but still leave the option available people want to pay a premium to avoid dealing with Steam or whatever. RainbowDashRadical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk RainbowDashRadical Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Fully agree with your last paragraph Triumph. I appreciate that one can choose to pay the higher price, and the lower price if they so desire. Heck, if you really want to support Spiderweb Software, buy 2 or 3 copies of one game. I also appreciate that the game's are being released on multiple platforms now. I tend to use more than one platform, though windows is my main gaming choice. Jeff really has done well with his business, and definitely deserves the extra publicity, customers, and money . Go SpiderWeb! ~RainbowDashRadical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Member ID: 41 11 posts I almost never post anything here Against plausibility, I'm now imagining you visiting these boards every day without posting for the past 12 years, and that's kind of scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Strangely enough, we were talking about two-tier pricing structures in my microeconomics class this morning. There's market segmentation going on in terms of games. In the iPad market, there aren't a lot of close substitutes in terms of longer, developed RPG's, but there are plenty of near-substitutes that drives down the price of games there. In the PC market, there aren't a ton of games that get produced for PC anymore, meaning there's less market competition and more ability for Jeff to set his own prices. Moreover, since resale of the games between the two markets isn't possible (to the best of my knowledge) the segmentation between the two markets is maintained and an equilibrium between the two prices can't be reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk springacres Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I actually just bought Avadon 2 off Spiderweb, having bought it through Steam already. The reason being I wanted a game that was more likely to be up-to-date and that I could play without necessarily being online or having to logon to Steam in case Steam's servers were offline. (In fact, I wish I'd thought about buying it here first. I'd rather support independent game developers directly than go through a middleman like Steam or the Apple Store.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Edgwyn Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I like Triumph's approach of having a link on the Spiderweb store page to the other outlets that are selling the games. I am fortunate enough to be in the position that the difference in price does not matter to me, I just see it as a fairness issue. I am not sure that the Steam and GOG prices would need to be listed, though it is probably better if they are. Like Springacres, I do not like the on-line issues with Steam as I am often places where my internet connection is iffy or expensive, and so I would rather pay the higher price on SW's site versus the Steam price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Juan Carlo Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Vogel needs to pay attention to his first week sales numbers on steam. If they are fairly consistent from game to game, then I think it would be reasonable to raise his prices there to 15 dollars, as this probably means he has a dedicated following there that will pay more (I know I'd be willing to pay 15 dollars). Then, a few months later, he can target the impulse buyers in a sale. I actually kind of wonder if the success of the Spiderweb humble bundle might hurt the sales of Avadon 2, mainly because all the impulse buyers basically now own every game Spiderweb ever created for 3 dollars. Given this, I highly doubt many of them are going to buy a new Spiderweb game for full price day one, especially when that game looks so similar, graphically, to all the other Spiderweb games they already have yet haven't played yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Rya.Reisender Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'd actually say it's the opposite. Humble Bundle is great for advertising. People like me who never in their life had paid $15/$20 for such a game now got it via the Humble Bundle. Several might not have liked the games at all, but even if only 10% of the people got addicted to them, it's very likely they'd pay the full price for all the upcoming games. Humble Bundle is often used by companies to advertise. That's why you often see games there that are soon to get a sequel. Companies wouldn't do that if they'd actually make loss in the long run. Still, I personally find $15 and $20 quite expensive for such a game already, especially considering that most graphics are recycled and the games don't even have music. I think buying from the website here directly is already a "Support Spiderweb Software" price. People who want to support the company buy here, others wait for special deals on digital game shop websites. Also $10 is quite expensive in mobile device terms too. Already anything above $5 is rare to see. SquareEnix kinda broke the taboo by putting their games for $15 on there and damn was there a huge flame war because of the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I could play without necessarily being online or having to logon to Steam in case Steam's servers were offline. In the unlikely event that Steam's servers go offline, you can start Steam in offline mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Reverend Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I still can't believe you can buy any decent game for under $30 ... Back when I was a kid such things were unheard of ... I'm happy to pay $20 for a Spiderweb game. Considering I easily spend between 50 and 100 hours on them (and sometimes more, depending on how many playthroughs I do), it's a great entertainment bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk springacres Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 In the unlikely event that Steam's servers go offline, you can start Steam in offline mode. Tells you how much I know. But even so, it's sometimes worth buying a separate copy from the developer, since Steam doesn't always get their versions patched right away, whereas buying direct from a developer you can get patches as soon as they're released for your platform. (Read: Steam's version of Avadon 2 is still at 1.0S... while they're giving DOTA 2 what seems like 54789 patches a week.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Eternal Phoenix Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 Against plausibility, I'm now imagining you visiting these boards every day without posting for the past 12 years, and that's kind of scary. I rarely visit unless a new game is out. Tells you how much I know. But even so, it's sometimes worth buying a separate copy from the developer, since Steam doesn't always get their versions patched right away, whereas buying direct from a developer you can get patches as soon as they're released for your platform. (Read: Steam's version of Avadon 2 is still at 1.0S... while they're giving DOTA 2 what seems like 54789 patches a week.) That's a good point. I do rather prefer to have the least buggy version of any software that I paid for. That's one of the main reasons that I'll probably continue paying the regular price through the official Spiderweb web site (in addition to wanting to support Jeff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Rya.Reisender Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I still can't believe you can buy any decent game for under $30 ... Back when I was a kid such things were unheard of ... Back then you could still touch the games, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 When I started, games like Wizardry and Ultima were $25 so when you adjust for inflation, games have gotten cheaper. Triumph 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Yeah, Jeff needs to put a "warning" on his website about the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Yeah, Jeff needs to put a "warning" on his website about the price. Steam provides a wider market of people who wouldn't otherwise visit the SW website. So advertising for Steam on the website would be kind of counter-productive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk springacres Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Yeah, Jeff needs to put a "warning" on his website about the price. Only if Steam et al. are also required to state that the version you get from them may be outdated and that you should go to the developer's site to get the latest version. (Incidentally, this needs to apply to ALL their games. Avadon 2 is not the first where I've had to buy a separate copy from the developer because Steam apparently couldn't be bothered to patch.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Rya.Reisender Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Steam gives 75% discounts regularly for all kinds of games and no developer ever puts a warning on their website like "you can get it cheaper on Steam". If anything they will put a normal "You can also get it on Steam" message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I like Triumph's approach of having a link on the Spiderweb store page to the other outlets that are selling the games. The links to Steam and such are actually on the Avadon 2 page. It's not in the store proper, nor are prices listed, but there's enough there that people can investigate. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk RainbowDashRadical Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 The links to Steam and such are actually on the Avadon 2 page. It's not in the store proper, nor are prices listed, but there's enough there that people can investigate. Dikiyoba. Now all that Jeff needs to do is update the rest of the site . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Xaiya Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (Incidentally, this needs to apply to ALL their games. Avadon 2 is not the first where I've had to buy a separate copy from the developer because Steam apparently couldn't be bothered to patch.) Jeff is actually really great about customer service last I checked. You probably could've gotten a new key, or perhaps instructed on which files to patch. He doesn't make people pay twice. I've known of many people who have gotten new keys because they lost their old ones to time and computer changes without paying for a new copy. You might need to provide some evidence in the email, but otherwise buying two copies is a little silly unless he's changed his policies. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure he appreciates all the extra money he's getting, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk springacres Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Yeah, I probably could have done that, but I'd rather have just bought the copy from the developer in the first place instead of having to wait for Steam to patch. And with a game as enjoyable as Avadon 2, I certainly don't mind paying a little extra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Eternal Phoenix Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 Jeff is actually really great about customer service last I checked. You probably could've gotten a new key, or perhaps instructed on which files to patch. He doesn't make people pay twice. I've known of many people who have gotten new keys because they lost their old ones to time and computer changes without paying for a new copy. You might need to provide some evidence in the email, but otherwise buying two copies is a little silly unless he's changed his policies. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yep. Spiderweb Software customer service > practically all other companies, especially compared to anyone else selling software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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