Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 As opposed to the "Favorite Character" topic some where back a few months ago, There seems to be some hatred going to Bernard in the geneforge forums.. Also Barzhal. So I had a thought. Which character really Grinded your gears. Was it because they won't surrender to your almighty Shaping/spell casting Godness? Is it because they set mines in places on a quest when you know you forgot to invest in Mechanics? is it because they stole your pudding? These characters about to be posted are some of the despised that Jeff has created. Maybe it's all demons or gremlins. Maybe it's just Erika. Whoever it is, let it be known that they're getting a kick in the ass and a un-sincere good-bye to dislike ville! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I really didn't like Multiple Generic Merry in X3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I never really liked X before A6, but then he removed that demon so it sort of evened out for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I really didn't like Multiple Generic Merry in X3. They weren't that bad. I don't know... maybe I'm too cheery and positive looking (hint: it's definitely not that), but there doesn't seem to be any SW character I hold an overwhelming grudge for. Which is interesting... Jeff seems good at making me care about characters I like, but pretty wholly lacking in making me hate somebody. Even though I guess Taygen gets close, he's never really that serious a threat because I never feel anything for him. I barely raise an eyebrow for him now, which is a shame. I am sight to behold with eyebrow aloft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan RaustBlackDragon Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Bernard. Bernard Bernard Bernard BernardbernardbernardbernardbernardbernardbernardBERNARDBERNARDBERNARDBERNARD! *Screams* Sorry, I'm better now. Yeah, Bernard from Geneforge 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Rowen Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 In Fort Avernum one person is loathed over all. Tor. He gives you a stick and says, "Good luck." I know that secretly he is part of the corrupt bureaucracy of Avernum. He keeps all the good stuff that The Castle sends out for the new arrivals for himself and his few elite friends. Elect me King of Avernum 2012 and I will make put an end to the corrupt middlemen that plight our towns and discriminate new arrivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Kings don't host elections. Have you forgotten how monarchies work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 pretty sure it's stated somewhere that the king of avernum is appointed by a vote of the mayors. it's expressly not a hereditary monarchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Is that why King Starrus or whoever his name is is mentioned that he is Micah's son? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It used to be like that, but in the later games that practice was discontinued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan RaustBlackDragon Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Is that why King Starrus or whoever his name is is mentioned that he is Micah's son? Isn't Chevyn Micah's son? Then again, he is completely and totally insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I found that although he isnt around most of the time in Avernum Escape from the Pit, Lagran was the most in character and well thought out bad guy in the Avernum series. He's really just a rogue that takes what he wants from those that aren't strong and yet is a coward through and through. If he didn't appear twice, I probably wouldnt remember him so well. The bad guy I thought that was the most weak was Captain Newsom from Avernum 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Oh yeah, Hrickis. His overpowered magic attacks in Avernum 4 always kill me >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Isn't Chevyn Micah's son? Then again, he is completely and totally insane. Starrus is a son born to Micah in his later years. People point out that this is a good thing: Starrus is a competent ruler, whereas Chevyn is a colossal idiot. He's promptly shoved aside in favor of the capable second son. —Alorael, who assumes Starrus was elected on the goodwill towards Micah, demonstration of ability, and the fact that the mayors don't want to leave their own towns. Who else would they pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I mostly disagree with Trenton. Heh. Sorry about that. My favorite characters are the really evil ones, such as Taygen, Rawal, Erika, etc. I like the benevolent characters less e.g. like Astoria, Alwan (I don't like him that much), etc. My most hated character was... you know, a drayk, in Geneforge 4, the assistant of Litalia? You know that drayk right? I only hate those who keep trolling and belittling the human race. -------------- -Haters gonna hate!, A -------------- Wait, who said anything about president elections on monarchy????????...??? Here is a basic lesson on old politics: They never do, it is either the the crowned prince will be king, or a legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I don't know that Erika quite qualifies as evil. She helps fight the enemies of Avernum, and she participates with the other great wizards in doing helpful things around the founding of the kingdom (even if she claims credit she doesn't fully deserve sometimes). She is arrogant, to be sure, but I don't think that flaw alone warrants calling her evil. Did she committed genocide in A2 and I've never heard about it or something? I have a very difficult time lumping her in with manipulative creeps like Rawal and Taygen. I suppose you could try to parallel her with Rawal, as powerful and somewhat isolated figures, but Erika is much more helpful to Avernum than Rawal ever was to the Shapers, so I don't think the comparison holds water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Cairo Jim Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Erika definitely isn't evil, although her little grudge against the Empire puts her close to the edge. On the other hand sacrificing herself to fight Rentar helps to show she isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Her sacrifice probably wasn't intentional. She lost a fight cuz Rentar fought dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish ottakoi Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Her sacrifice probably wasn't intentional. She lost a fight cuz Rentar fought dirty. That's exactly why I hate Rentar most. She killed my fav character by dirty tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Rowen Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 In a fight to the death can there really be such things as dirty tricks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Sure. We've got honor, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Rowen Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 As far as the debate from the early years of Erika vs. Rentar. I think that Rentar was the better of the two simply because she knew the weakness of her enemy and was willing to use it. Erika didn't die cause Rentar fought dirty, Erika died because she was over confident in her power to beat Rentar. Erika didn't view Rentar as a deadly threat, and that is why she never took precautions against being defeated in the way she was. Hell, No one thought an X Wing could blow up the Death Star cause they were over confident in the power of the the space station. Death Star blew up, Erika died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Erika = Death Star Rentar = X-wing This may be the philosophically deep idea I've ever seen on these forums. Tyranicus and Dikiyoba 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 In a fight to the death can there really be such things as dirty tricks? It's a rather subjective issue, some will say It was a dirty trick and some will say that all is fair in love and war, personally I am inclined to agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Kings don't host elections. Have you forgotten how monarchies work? So what you're saying is... you don't vote for kings? (And actually, I'm under the impression Jordan is doing something very like elections despite being a monarchy. And England is... well, England.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Gladwell is very hated too and no matter what we do he always pops up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (And actually, I'm under the impression Jordan is doing something very like elections despite being a monarchy. And England is... well, England.) King Abdullah still retains a lot of power. Maybe it's a segue into democracy, but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Erika has done the following: She has helped with the magical fungi that light avernum. She helps the characters in every game. She went into battle knowing it could be her last, ((Even though she thought it wouldn't be. You have to give her SOME credit though.)) She teaches magic to the character(s). She is infact a protagonist. How could you call her evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 While I've already argued that Erika wasn't evil (morally flawed, but not evil), I must also argue that Erika is not a protagonist, and even being a protagonist does not prove a character isn't evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Evil is relative; it all depends on which side you are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan RaustBlackDragon Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Evil is relative; it all depends on which side you are on. That depends on how you define evil. If evil is just fighting against what you believe in, then yes, but I think when people talk about evil, what they have in mind is an image of cruelty, the act of enjoying the suffering of others, the desire to fill the world with as much misery as possible, and deprive it of bliss whenever you can. And in that case, no, evil is not relative, suffering is suffering. But we should probably stay on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Evil is relative; it all depends on which side you are on. Disagree. Most strongly. But that is a subject for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Disagree. Most strongly. But that is a subject for another thread. We already have that thread, as a matter of fact, and the argument about moral relativity and inherent morality. I, for one, admire some of the characters that have been despised here. Specifically, I am fans of both Gladwell and Rawal. They are practitioners of Machiavellian politics, which many people would categorize as evil. But to them, it's the ends, not the means; that's what gives them depth as actual characters rather than cookie-cutter villains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Interesting point of view. I'd have said that end-justifies-the-means, end-result-focused thinking and behavior is quite common and stereotypical of villains, not at all a mark of depth. Dikiyoba 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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