World map?

[Kennedy]

How will the world map be handled? Will it have a large external world with towns and dungeons that can be entered like in Avernum 1 to 3, or will the world have only one scale and be broken up into regions such as was done for Avernum 4 to 6? Personally I would prefer the multi scale world of the first Avernum games.

[The Ratt]

You forgot the zone system like that used in G1-G5.

[Soul of Wit]

Originally Posted By: Kennedy

... Personally I would prefer the multi scale world of the first Avernum games.

You are not alone.

[Kingy]

At the end of the day Id say Jeff is well beyond deciding this so we'll get what we're given. But it is hard to shake the love for the scaling of the first Avernum games

[Spidweb]

It will basically use the Geneforge system, but we'll make it so it's really easy to jump from zone to zone.

 

- Jeff Vogel

[Mod.]

Sounds cool, wonder what it is going to be like. Maybe there is a map you can open up while being anywhere in the zone and switch without having to walk to a side.

[Triumph]

Ooh, the designer speaks from on high, dispelling rabid speculations! Thanks for the reveal; it is interesting to know what you decided on the map front.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Spidweb

It will basically use the Geneforge system, but we'll make it so it's really easy to jump from zone to zone.

- Jeff Vogel

fast travel rules, every game should have fast travel

[Slawbug]

amen amen amen!

[Shaper Tristan]

I just hope it uses the point and click movement system of geneforge, I can't stand the avernum movement where they are all in a line.

[Student of Trinity]

Grrr. The Geneforge zone system is bad, for me, because it's great, as a game feature. I'm always tempted to explore one more zone instead of sleeping or whatever I should be doing instead. Somehow in Avernum it's not as bad. I can see roughly what it's going to be like if I keep going from any point, so there's no big curiosity about checking out a new place.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

fast travel rules, every game should have fast travel

This.

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

I'm always tempted to explore one more zone instead of sleeping or whatever I should be doing instead.

This too.

[Alorael at Large]

Actually, now I'm thinking that maybe the ideal system would be a hybrid. The real weakness of the zone system is that you know exactly how large each area is because it will be zone-sized. If some "zones" were several areas, there would be more of a sense of real surprise and exploration.

 

—Alorael, who is more tempted in Avernum. Just a few steps further west always seems more reasonable than opening up a whole new zone. The zones have more natural stopping points.

[Mod.]

Originally Posted By: Reduced-Fat Electrum

Actually, now I'm thinking that maybe the ideal system would be a hybrid. The real weakness of the zone system is that you know exactly how large each area is because it will be zone-sized. If some "zones" were several areas, there would be more of a sense of real surprise and exploration.

—Alorael, who is more tempted in Avernum. Just a few steps further west always seems more reasonable than opening up a whole new zone. The zones have more natural stopping points.

Agreed, and I like your idea.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

I'm always tempted to explore one more zone instead of sleeping or whatever I should be doing instead.

I know what you mean, except for me it's with all of Jeff's games.

I get into a game, and then decide to put it down again "after I clear this dungeon" or "when I kill that boss" or even "in another minute or two"; and without realizing it, I've played for five hours straight--and needed to use the bathroom for at least the last four.

[Geneforgeisformeyukkyu]

Originally Posted By: False PDN without self-reference

Actually, now I'm thinking that maybe the ideal system would be a hybrid. The real weakness of the zone system is that you know exactly how large each area is because it will be zone-sized. If some "zones" were several areas, there would be more of a sense of real surprise and exploration.

—Alorael, who is more tempted in Avernum. Just a few steps further west always seems more reasonable than opening up a whole new zone. The zones have more natural stopping points.

I agree, a hybrid would have the best of both worlds, since you would be able to fast-travel when you wanted to so you wouldn't have to trek through 20 something zones to get to a place, and you could also be surprised and more entertained as you play.

[LostKnight]

I think you should combined the Avernum world map system and the Genforge Zone system together.

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: LostKnight

I think you should combined the Avernum world map system and the Genforge Zone system together.

How would that work?

[Triumph]

Maybe an open, completely connected world with a world map that allowed fast travel between locations?

[Velzan]

Well that would be Redunant. Thats jsut like using the Teleporter system of avernum.

 

-.- you may be in a mysterious fortress and semi all powerful

 

But that does not give you magical otherworldly Map powers!

[Sss-Chah]

so maybe basic cartography is part of adventurer training?

[mauvebutterfly]

Originally Posted By: {Cartouche}

Actually, now I'm thinking that maybe the ideal system would be a hybrid. The real weakness of the zone system is that you know exactly how large each area is because it will be zone-sized. If some "zones" were several areas, there would be more of a sense of real surprise and exploration.

When you say this, I'm picturing something quite like the later Geneforge games, actually. Although the game had zone divisions, some zones had larger dimensions than others, and some also had different levels that could be reached (e.g. through a trapdoor or a pit in the ground) that didn't show up on the overview map.

I personally really like the Geneforge system, because it makes exploring every last square of the minimap less tedious; all the 'no encounter' sections have effectively been removed, so I'm less likely to spend a lot of time exploring places that are of no value.

[Kennedy]

The fast travel to any zone via the world map in Geneforge was quite nice. Though I would settle for quick teleport to only the major cities or landmarks if it would allow for an overworld map and towns like in Avernum 1-3. What would be really nice is if you could look at the world map and then click on any marker that was on it to "go there".

[Sss-Chah]

i've never played any of the geneforge games, but i actually like exploring, so the latter avernum system works fine for me, though a compromise between the two would still be cool.

[tehpineapple]

Just throwing this out there: 3 Dimensional Map.

[Monroe]

The latter Avernums were kind of three dimensional if you take into account how places like the Honeycomb went up and down. That was one of the cooler parts of the game, imo.

[Unplayable Playable Character]

Originally Posted By: tehpineapple

Just throwing this out there: 3 Dimensional Map.

How exactly would this work?

[Kennedy]

Originally Posted By: tehpineapple

Just throwing this out there: 3 Dimensional Map.

Do you mean something like what was done with the "Might and Magic" or Wizardry series?

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: Kennedy

Originally Posted By: tehpineapple

Just throwing this out there: 3 Dimensional Map.

Do you mean something like what was done with the "Might and Magic" or Wizardry series?

I think he is referring to a literal 3D map. Imagine it as a globe of sorts, projected by hologram technology from your computer.

Would people buy a game just for that feature? Quite possibly.

[Sss-Chah]

i think i would.

[Zxc The Great]

I hate the zone system, it takes away from the exploration feel, I'd perfer a combination of the two, really big zones with the Avernum style, while when you leave that big zone, you can choose to go to another really big zone, like continents or something.