Avernum V ideas

[biderspider]

Here's a thot:

In Avernum 4 you can go to inns and taverns and such and buy wine and ale but they are a waste of time and coinage as you can't get any health points and if you sell them later you lose coins.

 

In one of the quests you have to get 20 bottles of wine so that makes sence. The gremlin wine actually allows you to bless self so it is better in that way from the average food item.

 

Sacks of meal are only good for resale or a quest when you find them or buy them then sale at a loss.

 

How about all food and drink items can be used for health points. And if 1 character say drinks to many it impairs them somehow. Reduced strenght weapon skill spell energy or something. To much meal and ale can make them slow or sick for a while?

 

How about being able to buy cheap and sell at a profit instead of a loss? Or sell reward or custom items for a profit?

[-=microphage=-]

Quote:

Originally written by Venomousblade:

Quote:

Originally written by Vaecrius:
I've been thinking (not always a good sign, but)... how about a KO state where the character is down but not out so they could be raised with something simpler like healing or first aid, instead of going all the way back to town, and they still get XP for the rest of the fight?

Also, I'm probably going to be skewered for this one, but... randomized areas?

Here's a better idea, though: the ability, in character creation, to type in the value of a stat, instead of increasing it by clicking on the buttons.

Divine Restoration spell in A4 works great for downed characters, just takes some time to get the skill up so you can use it on the battlefield.

A choice of typing in the values when spending skill point would be great, as long as the add/subtract was left intact from A4.

If I understand your meaning randomized areas, places like the Honeycomb, Mertis Spiral and the far NW caves could actually change so no maps would be any good. Would not want to see that in very many areas. Would definately increase the challenge!

It really doesn't take all that long to create and enhance characters, but a choice would be nice.

Randomized areas could be good in moderation!

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Originally written by Kelandon:

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Originally written by m hussain:
what about instead of 4 characters why not more
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Why? I have often found myself wanting fewer characters than 4, and never more.
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You could pick up additional characters along the way. Like the friendly shade and the worn out golem. Maybe adding some more of these would be nice if they stayed longer and were smarter. Acting helpfully on there own.

That worked good in the Geneforge demo (Picking up smart characters along the way).

EDIT: Trying to reply to multi-posts in one.

[Alorael at Large]

I'm pretty sure getting drunk was possible in previous Spiderweb games. As recently as A3/BoA? I confess to not spending much time imbibing alcohol or watching for the little usable button after determining that it could be done.

 

Food gives you a small amount of health in the Geneforges and A4, but it's still largely useless. Some items are just there to provide detail. Rocks and sticks and plates and mugs and, yes, a lot of the dubiously useful food items and throwable rocks. Not everything needs to be good for your adventurers.

 

—Alorael, who has never been in such urgent need for cash that he'd be willing to run around reselling everything. Iron bar and book retrieval quests are one thing, but turning Avernum into a trading game like Escape Velocity is another.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Alorael:

 

Quote:

I'm pretty sure getting drunk was possible in previous Spiderweb games. As recently as A3/BoA?

Yes, to both of them.

 

Dikiyoba kind of misses the ability to get drunk. Not because Dikiyoba ever used it, but just because it was there.

[Jame2]

My thought?

 

USE THE AVERNUM THREE GAME ENGINE!

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by The Story of Quid:
Iron bar and book retrieval quests are one thing, but turning Avernum into a trading game like Escape Velocity is another.

Did anyone ever really commit to the trading runs in A3? Just out of curiosity.

[Micawber]

I did it to earn the money for the blademaster skill. In A3, the trading runs are like regular quests - if you trade enough then the quest is completed and the merchants won't buy anymore.

[Randomizer]

I did the Exile 3 trading quests to raise money, but didn't try in A3. I was doing well enough not to need the money and didn't like wasting my time on it. I did some of the A2 ones when I found the items and could remember who wanted them.

[Horus]

Quote:

Originally written by Jame2:
My thought?

USE THE AVERNUM THREE GAME ENGINE!

I second that... the Av4 engine may look pretty, but it is in no way as versitle or as fun as Av3 (I've played Av3 hundreds of times, but I never played Av4 again after completeing it once...).

The way things were done in Av3 were also more fun than the way things were done in Blades of Avernum (oh yes it has an editor, but the drawbacks of playing BoA over Av3 were obvious - spell effects not working the same etc etc).

Also using the Av3 engine means that

1. The character graphics are much easier to make.

2. There is a character editor (something I disliked losing in Av4)

3. The world can be huge again (going from Av3 and it's huge continent sized game to Av4's Av2 size game was not fun). In fact it could probably be even bigger still.

4. We'd get our multiple Player Character Graphics back, going up in Av3 and BoA, to go down in Av4 using recycled Geneforge graphics just wasn't right.

Anyways thats just my viewpoint.

[Igor]

I would like a new catagory of magic separate from mage and priest spells. Perhaps bloodmagic, which takes health points to cast but it more powerful.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

i wouldnt like a new game with the a3 engine, but perhaps with an improved one.

 

i wont start with the full-3d-demands again, since - though a baldurs gate/jedi knight/whatever kinda avernum would be cool - spidweb probably is far too small a company to do something much larger than a3/a4.

 

assuming that a5 will have a huge playing space, id really like to see better transport possibilities. for example, you could ask a merchant in some inn if he could take you along, or if youre a really powerful mage, you could teleport. blabla.

[Hamilton G. Phantamos]

It'd be nice to have some kind of item storage/retrieval system wear you could store items somewhere and have it delivered to whatever town you move to when you need it for a small fee. It got kind of annoying to keep up with all the caches I left around in A4 for when I wanted to store something.

 

That and more weapon varieties, like brass knuckles, maces, nunchuks, etc.

[-=microphage=-]

Quote:

Originally written by Savage Ed Walcott:
It'd be nice to have some kind of item storage/retrieval system wear you could store items somewhere and have it delivered to whatever town you move to when you need it for a small fee. It got kind of annoying to keep up with all the caches I left around in A4 for when I wanted to store something.

That and more weapon varieties, like brass knuckles, maces, nunchuks, etc.

Assuming A5 didn't have the major transport/supply probs as A4... Not a bad idea.

But small fee? Hmmm. Who but Adventurers other than your own party would provide this service? And at what cost and reliability?

I'm assuming both Avernum 5 and it's Empire world will be under mutual attack at best. Maybe some corrupted (by Darksiders) officials could be bought or intimidated. Who knows.

Multiple open ended variables would be very desirable for A5.

As for the weapons, no ideas fitting within the scenario. And though it's old news now, you've given me a really interesting idea for a final finishing touch for an A4 editor. (It's gonna be a while before A5.) Thanks!

Good thought on main question. May have fun solution for A4 cache idea thing.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

id already be satisfied if it would be possible to put things into barrels, drawers, etc again, like back in the exile-universe.

[Delicious Vlish]

I would like to be able to create a monk. Like the Mad Monks in A3. To have an unarmed combat skill that would actually allow your punches do something, and gloves that would add to punching damage.

 

No really, I am cheesed off I can not execute a fiesty slap of pain or do mad kung fu. It all started back in Exile III actually... I so wanted to make a monk.

 

Bitterly disapointed am I.

[Randomizer]

Just push your strength and blademaster skills and you can be a slap happy monk. Bare handed damage isn't that great, but the game allows it. Don't forget quick action for multiple slaps.

 

I wouldn't mind a monk character in A5. No armor and increased hand damage would be nice. There could even be a monastary like in E3/A3 where you could train.

[Delicious Vlish]

Bare handed attacks suck. I tried.

 

Monks do so much damage it isn't funny. I mean, many painful slaps upside your head.

 

I even resorted to saving Monks in my soul crystal to get my mad kung fu fix.

 

Edit.

 

The Monastary of Madness was the best damn thing to ever happen in a Spiderweb game. Period. No ands, ifs, or buts. When I played Exile III and walked in to that place for the first time, and got my self slapped silly, I was almost in tears from laughing so hard. In A3, it was even worse... Those guys will slap the bejeezus out of you.

 

I wish Jeff would make a Kung Fu RPG. I would be all over that like white on rice.

[Hamilton G. Phantamos]

Quote:

Originally written by Rent-an-Ihrno:
id already be satisfied if it would be possible to put things into barrels, drawers, etc again, like back in the exile-universe.

You actually can do this as long as said drawer doesn't have a text special attached to it. You can also stockpile items all over the cave floor wherever you want, but it gets messy.

[Vaecrius]

It just occurred to me how much work it would take to get sprites for each possible PC if the next Avernum had a larger variety of weapons.

 

Let's take a look at the list so far:

Single knife**

Single sword

Sword and shield*

Spear

Sling*

Sling and shield*

Bow

Bow and shield**

Javelin

Javelin and shield**

 

(*doesn't have its own sprite set in A4)

(**doesn't have its own sprite set in AT)

 

I've simplified things by assuming that magic could use your normal attack animation and that greatswords are handled like spears.

 

So four to eight weapons times four to eight directions = 16 to 64 sprites. And then you've got about five (at least, don't remember the number) animation frames for each attack, meaning at least 20 frames added for each new PC sprite for each different-looking weapon... that's at least an hour of work, even at relatively low resolutions!

 

I'm thinking about all this, of course, because I'm going to suggest in this post support for custom PC graphics without overwriting the regular artwork.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

Quote:

Originally written by Savage Ed Walcott:
You actually can do this as long as said drawer doesn't have a text special attached to it. You can also stockpile items all over the cave floor wherever you want, but it gets messy.

but that wasnt so in the avernum trilogy... has that changed in a4 then?

@vaecrius: oh come on. avernum really is no big game, and those sprites are quite much all you see through the whole game. i think there should be some for everything, even the various armor-types etc etc, like it already is in some games, like in diablo 2 for example. would that really be that much an expense?

edit: messed up quote.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Rent-an-Ihrno:

 

Quote:

but that wasnt so in the avernum trilogy... has that changed in a4 then?

Yes.

 

Quote:

i think there should be some for everything, even the various armor-types etc etc, like it already is in some games, like in diablo 2 for example. would that really be that much an expense?

In terms of time necessary to create all the graphics, it probably would be.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

correct me if im wrong, but i assume that spidweb is no 1-man-company, and why the hell should i play their games if they dont even invest that amount of time in them?

 

edit: wrote spidwe.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Rent-an-Ihrno:

 

Quote:

correct me if im wrong, but i assume that spidweb is no 1-man-company

It's three people.

 

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why the hell should i play their games if they dont even invest that amount of time in them?

Because you like the game for what it is. Isn't it obvious?

 

Dikiyoba.

[Alorael at Large]

Spiderweb is a one man and two woman company, but that one man does all the programming. It's notable that none of them do graphics work, so all that has to be done at some expense by someone else.

 

—Alorael, who will repeat the tired old mantra: if you want pretty pictures, Spiderweb is probably not the right company for you. That said, a comparison of E1 to Geneforge makes advances in sprite graphics quite obvious.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

hm. i apologize for the tone of my last comments. i knew spidweb was small, but not that small.

of course avernum is not a graphics-game; for me it has always been a flair-game, a replacement for an adventure-book of sorts.

but still, mentioned feature seems well worth it to me.

 

er... if jeff does the programming, what do the other two do? share the story-part?

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Rent-an-Ihrno:
er... if jeff does the programming, what do the other two do? share the story-part?

The second person is his wife, who does some design work from time to time.

The third person is his secretary, who is responsible for processing orders and other administrative duties.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

but seriously, avernum mostly consists of storyline, texts, messages etc., does jeff do that on his own too?

 

btw, where does the name krizsan come from? (since his wife was mentioned, and i believe i heard thats her name... or was krizsan a girl of jeffs past... hm)

 

oh wait, im getting too much ot. uhh.... oh yes! assuming that a5 will take place after a4, i think avernum should be sealed off again. by some kind of accident maybe. to get that exile-feeling back, you know? and solberg and micah should be replaced. i like the guys, but 4 games are enough, theyre too old.

and i would like to see x in a more active role.

 

oh! and i would very much appreciate a more flexible dialogue.

i mean, apart from the much-discussed option of typing in things to say etc etc etc, i would like to be adressed correctly. a singleton should be spoken to as a single being, and maybe filling in <PN> (=player name) would be nice.

[Alorael at Large]

Mariann Krizsan is Jeff's wife. All the provinces in A3 are named after women from Jeff's life, and Krizsan got the mildest plague. (I still wonder what a certain Footracer did to him.)

 

—Alorael, who also is pretty sure that Micah is already dead and replaced by Starrus. On the other hand, Jeff has insinuated that Solberg's role will be expanded.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

i know, i just wondered where he found all those weird names. i mean, theyre beautiful and everything, (except footracer maybe), but wouldnt it be weird to be introduced to a ms. midori?

 

anyway, any more clues on solberg? (i wont ask about starrus since i suspect his role is explained in a4)

will he still be in the triad? who else?

[Dintiradan]

Quote:

Alorael, who also is pretty sure that Micah is already dead and replaced by Starrus. On the other hand, Jeff has insinuated that Solberg's role will be expanded.

Pfft. I want more Cheeseball.

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IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD:
Although it would provide amusement, I will not confess to the hero's rival that I was the one who committed the heinous act for which he blames the hero.

[Alorael at Large]

A4 explains a lot of this, you know. Like the Triad being more or less a name only without a Tower of Magi, and like Solberg's no longer being a member anyway.

 

Starrus is, by the way, Micah's son and the new king of Avernum. I think Chevyn was quietly fed to giant lizards, much to everyone's relief. Or maybe his own pet lizard?

 

—Alorael, who must introduce you to Ms. Midori .

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

oh. hm. that gives me a lot to think about. maybe i should read everything that happens in a4 before i open my unnerving little mouth again.

 

and im sure you cant introduce me to ms. karnold!

[JR]

I like having a seperate shadow plane for lost puppies and maybe a land run desolete with death and hell but in the original plane of existence.

 

Also I think A5 and Everquest should have armor that nullifies magic to make warriors the most powerful masters of the universe

 

"If at first you don't succeed, beat it with a kendo stick and force it to work"

[Goldengirl]

If you want to nullify magic, get a null bug. The best we can hope for is increased magic resistance. Oh na d why did you bring Everquest into this, eh?

[Randomizer]

There was an antimagic spell for a while in the game. You could always forcecage the mage if that spell comes back form A3.

[JadeWolf]

Ahem!

 

Quote:

Originally written by Spidweb:

I will also point out that the article was specifically about MMORPGs. I defy anyone to go to the official World of Warcraft or Everquest forums and find that that are a generally useful and intelligent place.

 

The people on the Spiderweb forums are generally friendly and useful, and I engage them on and off for actual feedback. Anyone who's been in the Geneforge 4 forum know that I have been taking and implementing actual suggestions from the community. Avernum 5 will incorporate suggestions from Avernum 4.

 

But anyone who wants to take quotes out of context from a humor column and turn it into a big emo drama is welcome to, I suppose.

 

- Jeff Vogel

Quote:

Originally written by Spidweb:

Avernum 5 will incorporate suggestions from Avernum 4.

Quote:

Originally written by Spidweb:

Avernum 5

Now if this isn't proof I don't know what could be.

[the Great Potato]

Didn't we already know that?

[Kelandon]

He has said before that he's going to make an A5. A4 sold extremely well, so it's pretty unsurprising that he'll do another one.

 

A character editor is my biggest request. I don't use it, but some people do need it when they mess things up or put all their skill points into Nature Lore or something. Height is my second-biggest, because it just makes everything look better.

[Conqueror of Geneforge]

I didn't read all the pages (I'm such a lazy) but I think the Vahnatai (sp?) should have a bigger role in the next Avernum, much like Avernum 2. I like how they are strangely unusual, and the way they act, also their closeness to the crystals.

 

If anything happened to them in A4, don't yell after me, I didn't finish it yet, I'm at Fort Avernum right now.

 

EDIT: I'm working on it, I'm on my way to Fort Dranlon (And Cetra) right now. Had some rough times, but for now it goes well.

[the Great Potato]

You should finish Avernum 4.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

to be honest, im sick of the vahnatai. yeah you spelled them right.

i hate plagues and diplomacy and stuff, i miss the warfare-feeling.

and i hate rentar. im so glad she dies at the end of a4.

HA! that was for you guys telling me the vahnatai were responsible in a3.

[Randomizer]

I think Jeff said somewhere back in the first 3 pages that the Vahnatai wouldn't appear in A5. Of course that could always change after he gets through the debate in this thread on whether they should come back.

[Dikiyoba]

It wasn't in this thread, so it must have been in the other A5 thread.

 

Dikiyoba knows that Jeff said there would be no vahnatai PCs and no more Rentar-Ihrno, but Dikiyoba can't remember what he said about vahnatai in general. Dikiyoba will check.

 

Edit: Jeff said he thinks there will be vahnatai.

[Zummi]

Ack!! Poor vahanatai.. Gone from A5. Well, at least there's new things added. Wait.. Was there already a post that Jeff will be thinking of adding a new race that the PC(s) will meet??

[Dikiyoba]

Read Dikiyoba's previous post again. Click on the link and read that post, too, while you're at it.

[Conqueror of Geneforge]

Quote:

and i hate rentar. im so glad she dies at the end of a4.

Thanks very much for the obvious spoiler, I just hope it's not a really big one. (Even though I don't know who's Rentar... yet. Or I forgot.)

I'm gonna click the link now. (Eyebeasts hurt!)

[Alorael at Large]

I can't imagine why there would be spoilers about A4 in a topic about A5. That's insanity!

 

—Alorael, who also can't believe anyone would be reading the topic without having played, say, A2, A3, or A4.

[Randomizer]

Rentar only dies in some endings. It depends upon your choices in both fortresses. You can let him go to bother other people.

[Alorael at Large]

Her, and out of three possible choices you get two options where she lives.

 

—Alorael, who isn't sure whether one or both of them can become unavailable depending on choices made in dialogue. The bloodthirsty ending is always available, although "bloodthirsty" is a tricky word when your foe is technically a rock on a podium.

[Zummi]

Well.. What ending is better? The ending where Rentar dies or the one the she lives?