Garrulous Glaahk rantalot Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Has anyone ever considered making a prelude to the valley of dying things? Like what really happened and why did the school have to be abandoned. I cant really make scenarios, but if some one was to make it for the contest….and you’ll be able to import a lot of the maps. The person would probably need to play the exile version first since it has a lot more info on what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 As far as I know no one has considered doing this; it seems that most designers would prefer to write their own plots and not associate them too directly with the game canon/Mr. Vogel's work. As I player, I think I prefer this state of affairs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 What better reason than to learn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Xaiya Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Messing with Jeff's plots using BoA scenarios is not nice. (Which is why scenarios like Undead Valley are so bad.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Originally Posted By: rantalot I cant really make scenarios I strongly doubt that. I bet you just haven't tried. There's a pretty strong community of designers at the moment, and we're more than willing to help people learn how to design, and more importantly, how to design well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon The Almighty Doer of Stuff Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 You probably won't find much of a market though, because despite the excellence that is VoDT, most people in the community think it's mediocre, from what I've gathered. Za-Khazi Run gets an even worse undeserved reputation, and I loved that one. It has an atrocious (I've heard) fan-made "sequel" for BoE too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 There is also the problem of coming up with a plot for the party to advance through since you're talking about a time when the place is being shut down and mages being killed that don't agree with what was ordered. Not a place for adventurers unless they want to die. The place was being closed because the Empire wanted to restrict the practice of magic to keep it under control. There are tantalizing hints with one of the mage offices belonging to Erika (maybe the Redmark before she was Exiled). The healer is of the Hamer clan and had a relative Exiled and you meet one in A1/E1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Die or run away, whichever comes first. You could build a scenario around running away before the Empire can catch and kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk rantalot Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 You could have two choices for an adventure. Help Palathius (did I get this right???) Mage set things up to save the valley. Or you could Help Vennia assassinate the mages and close the school. As for the entrance into it, you can be the one that brings the message from the emperor that the school needs to be shut down. I totally fell in love with VoDT back when I played it in blades of exile. It is one of the best if not the best in my eyes. It is a shame no one wants to make a prelude, but not messing with Jeff’s stories does make sense. VoDT and Zakazi-Run were probably replayed by me more times then any other scenario. The only thing I kinda hated about zakazi was the fact that I couldn’t go back. . .but that’s part why I replayed it so freaken much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 First message in town 6 says "Palhatis". You could imitate A Small Rebellion and have the player forced to take sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I have never really understood why VoDT is insulted so much in the Blades community. I liked it too -- and it is obviously the Urgeneforge as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I concur. I liked Valley of the Dying things. A Small Rebellion, on the other hand... that one I don't like so much. I haven't even played the Za-Khazi Run yet... I should do that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Originally Posted By: Slarty I have never really understood why VoDT is insulted so much in the Blades community. Insulted isn't the best term for it. It doesn't receive the awe-inspiring derision that Z-KR gets; it's just that most Blades designers consider it mediocre. I agree that it's a fun romp, but it's not something I want to play on an even semi-regular basis. Give me APF or WH instead. They're shorter, the former is considerably better, and both will level you up several times. Most people like ASR. I count myself amongst them, but not to the level of its greatest fans (or even its better fans, for that matter). I think Z-KR is fun, but that there's way too much room for improvement there. And I think DwtD has been on the short end of the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Drakefyre Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 ZKR is better in BoA. VoDT and ASR are better in BoE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Jeff's scenarios stopped being as fun when BoA's magic ran dry for me. I've played through VoTD more times than I can remember and the others have grown stale as well. ZKR doesn't deserve some of the criticism it gets. Individually, some of those dungeons are the best I've ever played through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 I don't think that VoDT is really panned all that much by the community. It's a solid scenario. The secrets, once revealed, are a little weak, and there are some plot holes — if there was a cleaning mechanism all set up, why didn't anyone use it? — but it's fun. VoDT gets some grief every now and then for being the only scenario that unregistered users can play, which may or may not have been a particularly good marketing decision (I find myself skeptical of it), but only tangentially because of its quality. I think that VoDT made the transition to BoA well. ASR didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Actually, I think the biggest problem people had with VoTD for BoA is that it's the same old VoTD and not some exciting new adventure. We're all kind of pissed that he released the same old scenarios as the default group. It's probably the reason BoA didn't sell well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: Nioca Insulted isn't the best term for it. It doesn't receive the awe-inspiring derision that Z-KR gets; it's just that most Blades designers consider it mediocre. I agree that it's a fun romp, but it's not something I want to play on an even semi-regular basis. Give me APF or WH instead. They're shorter, the former is considerably better, and both will level you up several times. Most people like ASR. I count myself amongst them, but not to the level of its greatest fans (or even its better fans, for that matter). I think Z-KR is fun, but that there's way too much room for improvement there. And I think DwtD has been on the short end of the stick. Could you perhaps not abbreviate quite so much? I don't know what APF or WH is. (I just suddenly realized what DwtD was – Diplomacy with the Dead.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 APF = A Perfect Forest WH = Witch Hunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 In retrospect, it does seem like creating new scenarios might have made BoA sell better. Of course, it also would have extended the time it took to develop BoA, which already was the highest of any game he's made, IIRC. DWTD was released with BoA, though, wasn't it? That was new, though admittedly I didn't like it very much, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel Could you perhaps not abbreviate quite so much? If you're going to talk about BoA, you're going to have to get used to the abbreviations. Originally Posted By: Slarty DWTD was released with BoA, though, wasn't it? That was new, though admittedly I didn't like it very much, either. Yeah, I'm starting to think that this might've been a previously unappreciated reason why BoA didn't work out very well. DWtD was short and not stellar, and the other scenarios were not significantly different from their BoE versions. Of course, the biggest problem was that the scripting system was considerably harder to learn than BoE's noding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt aka Ravenwing Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I personally think it would have made more sense to feature DWtD, since of the four default scenarios, it was the new one. Making it the playable one in the demo might have made more sense, since many people would have played VoDT in BoE. I'm not one of those, and I found VoDT to be a lot of fun as a first scenario. And it worked well enough for me to want to keep playing and buy the full version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk rantalot Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 It is somewhat of a disappointment if you played it on BoE, not just because it is the same story, but also because the BoE version was slightly better. If I remember correctly there are more things that tell you about what happened in the school in the BoE version. You spend over 75% of the game inside the school, it is kind of important to constantly get clues as to what happened inside. This is part of the reason I want some one to work on making a scenario about it. I really feel some loose ends of the story line need to be tied up. Why didn’t anyone just flip the damn switch and dispose of the poisons? Why would some leave a huge live dragon in the cell instead of just killing it? Why was the school closed to begin with? I mean it is the biggest magic school in any of the avernums I played seems strange to just close it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Looks like you have a reason to start learning how to script. Believe me, it's daunting but not anywhere near as hard as it looks. As for VoDT, I enjoyed it along with the other scenarios because I never bought BoE. I also loved DWtD. I still like them, it's just that their old charm has run dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Originally Posted By: rantalot This is part of the reason I want some one to work on making a scenario about it. I really feel some loose ends of the story line need to be tied up. Why didn’t anyone just flip the damn switch and dispose of the poisons? Why would some leave a huge live dragon in the cell instead of just killing it? Why was the school closed to begin with? I mean it is the biggest magic school in any of the avernums I played seems strange to just close it up. Uh, yes, the aforementioned plot holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 The school was closed by Imperial decree and based on the timing it appeared to be before the major mages were sent into Exile. The government was controlling magic by centralizing it and eliminating schools that it couldn't easily control. Most of the mistakes seem to be an idiot running the place that wanted it done on time to curry favor with the higher ups and some who thought that the place would soon reopen. Jeff has that in Geneforge too where experiments were left to run because the experimenters planned to return even if they had to sneak back to Sucia Island to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon The Almighty Doer of Stuff Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm pretty sure it was established in the scenario that Click to reveal.. the school was closed in a rush and they didn't have time to make everything all neat and clean. As has been said previously in this thread and as was established in the scenario and in the previous Exile/Avernum trilogy, the Emperor was afraid of the proliferation of magic as it was a threat to his power, so magical training became concentrated under the Empire's direction, and magic users were forced to either prove their loyalty or be killed/exiled. The school administration knew all about the switch and the dragon and whatnot. The Empire, behaving in its typical way, did not know, nor did it care to know. The administration could have cleaned everything up, but they were too busy fighting to keep the school operational and getting killed by the Empire for being insubordinate in the process. I see no plot holes as far as that's concerned. I still say it's a great scenario with a great main dungeon. EDIT: Uh, yeah. Missed the second page... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 See, the "too busy" line makes some sense, except that it's a SWITCH. How much freakin' time does it take to throw a switch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Some people forget to turn the faucet off before going on vacation. Maybe the task was delegated to someone else who had too much on his plate and forgot or gave it to someone else and so on and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 After all they forgot to get the key back that you need for the lower levels and several other "important" things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 We should rethink trusting these people with summoning demons for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Who flung poo Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Sorry for reviving this and what I'm about to say is somewhat off-topic but....I've always kinda wanted to see a scenario where you play as the elite soldiers that were part of the First Expedition to Avernum, I know they all get killed, but it has always fascinated me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 A scenario based upon Thralni's First Expedition would be interesting. At least designing the outdoors won't be hard, you can use the outdoors from Avernum 1. I have just finished the outdoors part of a revision of Xoid's Avernum 2 Template. Now that I have a custom spreadsheet to do the necessary porting work, it only takes a minute per section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 A scenario from the time of the First Expedition would be fascinating, there would be no Avernum. No Avernum, no Nephilim, no Abyss, no human towns, no bridges. No cavewood and no moss to light up the ceilings. Grah-hoth would still be at large. The entire place would be a wilderness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 We know there'd be Motrax, and there might be some weirdness left over from whatever was in the strange cave in A1 that had pre-First Expedition stuff. According to Bahs/Ex continuity, there'd be some interesting things going on with the sliths (although most of the best stuff would've already happened). I often thought of making a First Expedition scenario, too, but it seems as though it'd be pretty dark. The expedition goes wronger and wronger as time goes on. Demonslayer broken, the expedition divided and dying... bad news all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Originally Posted By: Kelandon I often thought of making a First Expedition scenario, too, but it seems as though it'd be pretty dark. The expedition goes wronger and wronger as time goes on. Demonslayer broken, the expedition divided and dying... bad news all around. Yeah, making a scenario for a failed expedition would be kind of... depressing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I dunno. Apollo 13 was about a failed expedition, not too depressing. You'd have to focus on the, hitherto unknown, support team who made it out alive against all the odds. But whom no one has ever heard of because the main explorers were lost. Use a little dramatic licence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Nalyd's pretty sure that they wouldn't say that everyone died if someone made it out alive. Hey, Frostbite was good and everyone died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Not true. If a tiny group of explorers either escaped or found refuge in Avernum, and the Empire never found out, they would simply assume that everyone on the First Expedition was dead. As for Frostbite... Click to reveal.. The mission wasn't a total failure. True, everyone died, but the mission was still a success, albeit a costly one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Tales get simplified and exaggerated in the telling, too. "All the major heroes were lost, only some insignificant bag carriers survived" becomes "Everyone died!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 If I recall, in the First Expedition there were exactly two survivors. Edit: Why don't I see this topic on the list in the BoA forum? I can only access it from the main index when it contains the most recent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon The Almighty Doer of Stuff Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Because the board is horribly broken and posting in threads doesn't bump them anymore. I found it down the list, among some threads that haven't been posted to since June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Posting in threads bumps them most of the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Who flung poo Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 If a scenario about the First Expedition was made, I would prefer it be made by Kelandon or Lazarus because I fell like they can really capture the moment when something terrible happens. Such as losing Thralni's Sphere or the destruction of the Demonslayer, but that's just my personal opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 ADoS - The thing that sorts the threads by descending chronological order by default seems to be off. You can manually rectify this by clicking on the Posted button twice, but it has to be done every time you load that particular forum. Now I'm glad I view the forums primarily through the Active Topics feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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