Limited Inventory space

[BMA]

I've found that the inventory storage space available is not enough towards the middle and later half of the game. There are many pods, spores, attack items, batons, thorns all of different types. Some of these are non-optional (like living tools and healing pods/spores) so they take up permanent slots in the inventory. If you carry 3 types of batons and their thorns (which you should, if you're a self-respecting Guardian) that alone takes 20% (5 cells) of your inventory.

 

I've often found myself using the junk bag to temporarily extend my storage - only now the junk bag contains both junk and non-junk. This defeats the purpose of having it, since now I've to go back to town to take items out, and also have to sort through the bag and take out the useful items before selling the rest - this is more work than play. Maybe I deserve this since I'm using the junk bag in a way that's not meant to be used, but I'm only going to blame the dev for giving me the option to shoot myself in the foot.

 

This is a relatively minor annoyance, but it's been mentioned here and in Steam reviews a few times. I'm hoping this feature gets reworked - maybe Jeff could go back to to limiting inventory items based on the player's skill rather the number of inventory slots (or extend the inventory with a few additional slots). Also if you're only meant to wear (not carry) items specific to the zone you're going into (say a cloak with fire protection for a zone full of enemy fyoras), it'd be nice to have a base with storage boxes to keep all such items in.

[alhoon]

Base with storage boxes: Can't we use the actual storage boxes in the zones? I keep my gear in a chest in Vakkiri. In previous games, nothing would happen to them. But I have not checked for this game. 

Also, I am a Shaper and I also find the inventory somewhat limited. Sure, I don't have to carry 3 batons and 3 thorns, but I carry crystals and an extra ring and an extra belt for higher versatility as I don't know what I will find in a zone. And then, we have Shaper notes etc that I want to keep. When I find tinker gloves etc, I will also hold such things in my inventory. As such, the junk bag will sooner or later be used for "I should keep that in my box, thus not sell automatically" 

[kuo]

My approach is to drop everything on the ground...one pile for shaper equipment, one pile for batons and javelins, another pile for wearable equipment, and so on...

[TriRodent]

23 minutes ago, kuo said:

My approach is to drop everything on the ground...one pile for shaper equipment, one pile for batons and javelins, another pile for wearable equipment, and so on...

 

That's the way I did it.

 

During testing I talked a bit with Jeff about this.  His stance is that the junk bag is there to save on the drudgery of filling up your inventory with things of little, but some, value, going to town to sell them, and then going back to get more.  You fill the bag with that, go to town & sell everything at once/one click.  It's 'not' supposed to be some magical space warp inventory pocket.

 

I'm about to head out the door to go to the library for a few hours.  It would be nice to have this desktop computer/monitor/speakers/printer/etc with me as it's familiar to use & probably faster than the ones there.  Likewise, I'll be there past lunch time.  Bringing all the equipment/ingredients to make say an omelette would be nice, but it's more practical to wait until I get back to make it.  So I'm venturing out into the world with my truck keys, wallet, cell phone, & pocket knife...

 

Point being that there's only so much that you can physically carry.  Be glad that you 'can' carry around 6 sets of chain mail (if you have the inventory spaces) in the game rather than the more realistic (but highly annoying) system that say A4 had where 'everything' had a weight value & you got overloaded pretty quickly. 

 

My inventory screen generally has 6-8 slots open (carrying either pods or spores not both helps a lot, only one wand of any particular type (extras stored in town), maybe a piece of specialized equipment if I know I'll need it (such as soft shoes in the mines), etc).  Would I like to be able to haul everything with me & be immediately accessible, sure.  However this way strikes a good balance between game immersion, reality, & reducing the cash producing drudgery.

[googoogjoob]

I think the inventory system is... it's a set of design decisions mostly in favor of "immersion" or "realism" and against convenience, which doesn't really create many interesting decisions for the player, doesn't really make the game more immersive, and intermittently creates irritating situations. It's not unbearable, but it's not great.

 

That is- it doesn't create interesting decisions for the player in that, I believe, there's actually room in the inventory for every combat-usable item. The player isn't confronted with the issue of deciding which set of pods, spores, and crystals they want to use so much as they're confronted with the issue of how many pods, spores, or crystals they're willing to forego having immediately available, in favor of having open slots for eg passive buff items (kinda marginal) or alternate pieces of equipment (a ranged character swapping out batons situationally is probably the case where this is most important). It doesn't really make the game more immersive in that there's nothing actually stopping the player from hoarding items and leaving them in their junk bag, or in huge suspension-of-disbelief-straining piles of valuable/enchanted items in one of the towns- it just makes it slightly more tedious to do so, with there being no other mechanics to penalize this playstyle. (The removal of an inventory weight limit, and the existence of the junk bag at all already favors a hoarding playstyle, just one more focused on hoarding combat items and vendor trash.) It intermittently creates mildly irritating situations, such as when you have a bunch of Shaper equipment you want to turn in in the Junkyard- but Shaper equipment doesn't stack, so you have to make several trips from a town to the Junkyard as you pull the equipment out of your junk bag.

 

It's hardly game-breakingly bad, but I think the inventory system is probably the one part of the remake that doesn't really feel like it has clear design objectives. Even if you play in the most obsessive hoarding way possible, it just adds maybe 10-15 minutes overall to a 20-25-hour-long game.

Edited March 17, 2021 by googoogjoob

[Ardent Trove]

My approach has been to use around one consumable per battle. With few consumable stacks, I have no inventory problems! Also, when I see a friendly person in need, I'll drop excess food, basic thorns and other stuff for them as a kindness (pure roleplay, but it keeps inventory clear). Level 9 or 10 right now, so might come into inventory problems later, but not yet.

 

Not sure if the inventory system was designed to encourage consumable use.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Ardent Trove

[Randomizer]

If your computer can play it, go back to Exile 1 with an 8 slot backpack. Talk about inventory management where you also might not be able to identify the items. Now there you had to decide between taking items to use or leave empty slots for loot.

[BMA]

21 hours ago, alhoon said:

Base with storage boxes: Can't we use the actual storage boxes in the zones?

 

Yeah we can do this, I just fancy having a dedicated base area with different boxes to categorize stuff in. BTW this can be added into the game ourselves, if the Scenario Editor that was made for Geneforge 5 is ported over to Mutagen. More people are likely to use it now, considering the active playerbase.

 

20 hours ago, kuo said:

My approach is to drop everything on the ground...one pile for shaper equipment, one pile for batons and javelins, another pile for wearable equipment, and so on...

 

I end up doing this, only I don't have separate piles. It's just a large, rectangular pile of items.

 

20 hours ago, TriRodent said:

Bringing all the equipment/ingredients to make say an omelette would be nice, but it's more practical to wait until I get back to make it.  So I'm venturing out into the world with my truck keys, wallet, cell phone, & pocket knife...

 

Yeah but you don't know in advance (usually) what types of enemies you'll come across and what status effects they might inflict (poison / acid etc). So you carry bits of everything for both attack and defense. In this case carrying 2 pods each of different types is more expensive than carrying 20 pods of one type. Maybe it'll be harder in future games if there are crafting components, new items etc.

 

19 hours ago, googoogjoob said:

The removal of an inventory weight limit, and the existence of the junk bag at all already favors a hoarding playstyle

 

Didn't realize this before, it does indicate that the game economy "expects" you to be carrying and selling junk. Other turn-based RPGs don't seem to have this issue, since there's usually multiple characters each having a separate inventory. Though on second thought I'm happy that the inventory limit is not decided by Strength, which would require non-Strength playthroughs to increase the skill for no other reason.

 

I was looking through the forums for related posts and came across a similar topic - ancient post

[alhoon]

5 hours ago, BMA said:

BTW this can be added into the game ourselves, if the Scenario Editor that was made for Geneforge 5 is ported over to Mutagen. More people are likely to use it now, considering the active playerbase.

 

I pray that happens, but it took @TheKian a lot of his free time to make the modding suite for GF5. Asking him to go in practically blind since so many things changed in GF1-M to make a new one is a bit... you know. 

 

What could be done is export the files and figure where the "items" list ends and add a chest in the end. But that requires a lot of time as well. 

Last but not least: if you turn green a lot of areas, you could easily run back to the area you would declare as "my base!". I use the Awakened but you could do it in any place you like. Say, the ruined school. You can put a script there, which is just a couple of lines of code BTW, so you are healed when you go there. Or the abandoned docks. Or the Hill of Jars. Or wherever you like. 

 

What I mean is that it is much more 'time efficient' to "adopt an area" as your base than figure out how to add a few chests.
Of course, I am not negative to the drive to create more chests, far from it. But as far as this issue is concerned, I think it is better to use the existing chests.

Edited March 18, 2021 by alhoon

[BMA]

4 minutes ago, alhoon said:

 

I pray that happens, but it took @TheKian a lot of his free time to make the modding suite for GF5. Asking him to go in practically blind since so many things changed in GF1-M to make a new one is a bit... you know. 

 

Yeah it's an amazing tool, I'm sure it would have taken a ton of effort to build and fine-tune it. Speaking of which, if the code is uploaded to Github / open-sourced at any point (it was made in Java iirc), I'd love to take a look and possibly (me or anyone else who's interested) can contribute. I'd taken a stab at making something similar earlier.

 

But even before that, if the GF1-M scenario format is very different and there's a ton of discovery work to list out which part of the scenario does what, I wonder if it's worth it. Especially since interest in the game will taper off over the next few months, and then we'll have to do it again (although to a lesser extent) for the GF-2 remake.

[alhoon]

Talk to @TheKian

[Magenta]

If you have ever spent multiple trips schlepping loot from the area you just cleared, walking to a merchant's shop, clicking on each individual item you want to sell, and then going back for more, you really appreciate the concept of the junk bag. When you finish clearing an area, you probably want to go to a friendly town to recharge anyway, so pick the one where you are dropping your keepers. If you sell your junk regularly, it just takes a moment to pick out the treasures before heading to a merchant to get rid of the rest (without needing to click each item individually, btw). If you let the junk pile up before selling, then it takes a little longer to go through it, but still not much time.

 

I don't worry about finding a container for the keepers. I just leave it in piles near the entrance. Nobody bothers it. One suggestion though, is to pick the home base that corresponds to the sect that you want to join, as it will not go hostile.

 

That said, I still struggle with what items to carry in my 25 inventory slots. I'm just happy I don't have to keep slots open for loot. Almost everything I pick up goes into the junk bag until I get back "home" to sort it out. Beyond that, I just remind myself that every game has its limits, and part of the game is figuring out how to make the best of the limits. If you just throw everything in your pack because you don't know what might be useful, then you may need to learn more about what is the most useful for your character and his/her abilities. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

 

And remember, if you go into an area and realize you needed that green spore baton you left at home, you can always go back for it.

[alhoon]

I think it is a conscious design, the inventory. This is not an inventory management game, but it gives it such an element. 

[Chopkinsca]

Back in my day, the inventory only had 16 slots. The amount of weight you could carry included everything in the inventory, not just what you were wearing. Playing as a low strength character was... don't want to say annoying, but did have to be dealt with. Living tools themselves weighed 1lb each.

 

[fireart]

The only thing I found annoy is having to empty my inventory to take shaper equipment in. It would be nice if it checked the junk bag for quest items 

[Randomizer]

Worse if you don't remove zero value quest items from the junk bag, they can accidentally get sold.

[TriRodent]

10 hours ago, Magenta said:

I don't worry about finding a container for the keepers. I just leave it in piles near the entrance.

 

I don't know if there is a limit here, but in other SW games there was an item limit (200+ iirc) of distinct items in any one particular spot (10 healing pods stacked together count as one item) & going over that would cause items to disappear..  So it would take a really big pile of your crap...er...stuff, but it could happen.  I do essentially the same (leave stuff in a friendly zone), but scatter it around a bit more.  Pods & spores in one spot.  Move down the map far enough that when I open up the inventory screen, the pods/spores are not available/out of reach, & drop off say the assorted thorns, etc.  It takes a few extra seconds of walking around to do the sorting/inventory management, but then there's no worry about hitting the limit & having items vanish.

[BenS]

2 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Worse if you don't remove zero value quest items from the junk bag, they can accidentally get sold.

Well, as I learned from someone here, at least the rough crystals stay there w/out being sold, so you can stack those until you're ready to take them out and cash them in. Though I can't say I've had a real use for them so far, given the rewards.

[Magenta]

11 hours ago, TriRodent said:

I don't know if there is a limit here, but in other SW games there was an item limit (200+ iirc) of distinct items in any one particular spot (10 healing pods stacked together count as one item) & going over that would cause items to disappear..  So it would take a really big pile of your crap...er...stuff, but it could happen.  I do essentially the same (leave stuff in a friendly zone), but scatter it around a bit more.  Pods & spores in one spot.  Move down the map far enough that when I open up the inventory screen, the pods/spores are not available/out of reach, & drop off say the assorted thorns, etc.  It takes a few extra seconds of walking around to do the sorting/inventory management, but then there's no worry about hitting the limit & having items vanish.

Right. I do spread the piles out a little, so when I'm looking at pods & spores, I'm not distracted by wands or thorns. I've even been known to pick up trash and drop it somewhere else, just to get it out of the way. In the original game I liked to use Abandoned Vale because there was lots of room to spread out the piles, and it never went hostile. But you can't pull things out of the junk bag there, so... 

[maddz]

What would be useful is something along the lines of the Queen's Wish chests.  You put an item in a chest in one area and it would be in all the chests.  Gamewise, the obvious place to put the chests are in the towns, but they are concentrated along the southern edge of Sucia.  Perhaps have them in major Shaper facilities?

 

Admittedly, it was a bit of a pain to sort through the items, so perhaps having compartments within the chests (filters, basically) would be nice.

 

What also could be useful is ammo-stripping batons - so you can keep the ammo in a stack and dispose of surplus batons.  I'm sure I'm not the only person who ends up with a massive heap of batons, especially the higher level ones.

[alhoon]

But you can travel to town as easily as you walk out of a zone... There's IMO no difference in the towns being 5 zones away from where I am to being next to where I am. 

[TriRodent]

3 hours ago, maddz said:

 

What also could be useful is ammo-stripping batons - so you can keep the ammo in a stack and dispose of surplus batons.  I'm sure I'm not the only person who ends up with a massive heap of batons, especially the higher level ones.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  The wands reload themselves when they're empty if you have the right type of thorns/ammo in inventory.  I only keep one type of each wand & sell the rest (& only carry one wand (I don't use them that much, more a magic user most of the time) & the ammo for it at a time - wand equipped & one slot for the thorns).

 

And the wand reloading here is MUCH better than the original GF.  When the wands got to zero thorns, you had to point it at something & 'shoot' a blank shot at them to fill it back with thorns...counting as an attack in combat mode (which I suppose is fair as unless you're Jerry Miculek, it's going to take real time to do so).  Anyway, back then I'd carry many wands, trade them out when they got to zero, go to a friendly town, go into combat (saving first...), point the empties at a guard & 'shoot' him to refill them...yeah there was the occasional 'oops' & back to reloading the game to prevent the town from being pissed at me.

 

I much prefer this new way of manipulating wands.

[maddz]

1 hour ago, TriRodent said:

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  The wands reload themselves when they're empty if you have the right type of thorns/ammo in inventory.  I only keep one type of each wand & sell the rest (& only carry one wand (I don't use them that much, more a magic user most of the time) & the ammo for it at a time - wand equipped & one slot for the thorns).

 

Rather having a stack of maybe a dozen reaper thorns, and as many batons, you strip the ammo from the excess batons and add it to the ammo stack and sell the empty batons.  Also would be useful in early game when you're more likely to find batons not ammo.  I ran out of venom thorns at one point and had a stack of unused batons sitting in Pentil...  With limited inventory, hauling around multiple batons and switching them as the ammo runs out is a pain.