Avernum...the Movie/Series

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

I know it's been done 2 or 3 times, but hey...I like the concept.

I think it'll have more impact as a TV series. Also, movies tend to leave stuff out. And with the amount of stuff in the Avernum games...A LOT would be left out.

Also you could use one game per season with the first being shorter because it's the promo like so;

1. Avernum: The Beginning. You start off showing the First Expedition and end with the confirmation of Micah as King of Avenum.

2. Avernum: Strikes Back. (Avernum 1) Starts off showing four people being pushed into a teleportal, following them through their adventures, and ending with the assassination of Hawthorne.

3. Avernum: War. (Avernum 2) Starts off with Garzahd ordering the attack on Avernum and ends with his own assassination.

4. Avernum: Returns to Surface. (Avernum 3) Starts off with discovery of Upper Avernum and ends with defeat of Rentar-Ihrno.

5. Avernum: Retribution. (Avernum 4) Starts off with adventurers in Fort Monastery and ends with defeat of Rentar-Ihrno.

6. Avernum: Northern Expansion. (Avernum 5) Starts off with the assassination of Prazac and ends with the assassination of Dorikas.

7. I haven't yet played the sixth on yet so could someone help me fill this one in? Thanks.

 

We could discuss which actors could play the characters or what all stuff could go into each season or whatever. Hope you like.

[Lilith]

no

[Slawbug]

Why the heck is a movie about Prazac, Dorikas, and a group of Empire soldiers titled "Avernum: Northern Expansion"?

 

Wait, never mind. no

[Celtic Minstrel]

I don't think there's enough on the First Expedition to make a whole season on it. It'd be better to have that either simply be revealed throughout the series, or to have it dumped in the pilot episode (probably the forme is better unless the pilot is quite long).

 

But I do like the general idea. That said, I have no interest in discussing actors.

 

Note that, in order to do this, the storyline would almost have to be rewritten linearly, giving names and personalities to the main characters where before there were none. A lot of filler would probably be added too, though side quests from the game could provide a lot of that.

 

Of the first trilogy, Avernum 1 would probably be hardest to convert due to its non-linearity. Avernum 3 would be next-hardest; however, its "do stuff, report back to Anaximander" format is in my opinion quite suiting for a television series. Avernum 2 would be notably easier, at least in the first half, since it's pretty linear there. I'm not sure about the second half since I never got very far out of the Tower of Magi last time I played it.

 

The chances of it happening, of course, are very low. But we can always dream.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Why the heck is a movie about Prazac, Dorikas, and a group of Empire soldiers titled "Avernum: Northern Expansion"?

Probably the same reason why the same plot went into a game called Avernum 4!

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I don't think there's enough on the First Expedition to make a whole season on it. It'd be better to have that either simply be revealed throughout the series, or to have it dumped in the pilot episode (probably the forme is better unless the pilot is quite long).

Usually some shows' first seasons are typically short so that's why I figured that the First Expedition would go first. We could show the Empire finding the caves, mounting the Expedition, the Expedition roaming through the caves, the fights, the slaughter, and the Empire's response to it. I figure about 6-8 episodes for the first season.

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

The chances of it happening, of course, are very low. But we can always dream.

***dreaming***

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Why the heck is a movie about Prazac, Dorikas, and a group of Empire soldiers titled "Avernum: Northern Expansion"?

Probably the same reason why the same plot went into a game called Avernum 4!

You mean Avernum 5.

My main question is about the subtitle, though. Avernum's ill-fated northern expansion is totally incidental to Prazac, Dorikas, Redmark, and the Empire soldiers.

no

[Lilith]

12 Monkeys isn't actually about twelve monkeys, either

 

also: no

[Tirien]

Lets just face reality already. Avernum movie/tv series will never happen. Why? Becuase god, (and possibly jeff) hates us.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I don't think there's enough on the First Expedition to make a whole season on it. It'd be better to have that either simply be revealed throughout the series, or to have it dumped in the pilot episode (probably the forme is better unless the pilot is quite long).

Usually some shows' first seasons are typically short so that's why I figured that the First Expedition would go first. We could show the Empire finding the caves, mounting the Expedition, the Expedition roaming through the caves, the fights, the slaughter, and the Empire's response to it. I figure about 6-8 episodes for the first season.

1. Uh, having a short first season doesn't strike me as particularly typical.
2. I doubt you could get more than one episode – maybe two – out of the First Expedition. Granted, you could probably expand it quite a bit, and it may be just possible to expand it enough to get a full season, but it would have a whole lot more filler than any of the other ones.

[Dantius]

Mad Men, this show ain't.

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I doubt you could get more than one episode – maybe two – out of the First Expedition. Granted, you could probably expand it quite a bit, and it may be just possible to expand it enough to get a full season, but it would have a whole lot more filler than any of the other ones.

Totally not true. Check out the Encyclopedia Ermariana entry on the First Expedition:

The First Expedition

NONE of that is filler, and with the sole exception of one word (the name "Korthax") it all comes directly from the games. Surely that's more than enough for "one episode - maybe two." Flesh out it could easily be a season -- more easily than Exile 1, I daresay.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Hm. I suppose you're right. And it's certainly true that it would be easier to make a season out of it than Exile 1, since it's backstory and thus linear.

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

Blades of Ermarian

TV series.

 

A ragtag team of mercenaries gets hired out by seemingly random forces and stop great atrocities and demon invasions, travel back and forth through time, participate in every single key event of the age, and get lectured at by the full gamut of various archetypal villains. They will travel through areas exotic and mundane, above and below ground, here, and there, and everywhere else.

 

Eventually, a sinister overarching plot emerges, involving the overthrowing of the Empire, a group of all-powerful mages who think that world domination is too boring, and a strange arch-enemy who has vowed to destroy the world with philosophy.

 

The series ends when the world implodes because these mercenaries have reached a level of skill that the universe was never designed for.

Alternatively, the series ends when the group reaches Querbel Valley to help with a small Nephilim problem.

 

_________________________

The Silent Assassin notes that while this post was made in jest, a Blades-type serial, given the proper overarching plot (as opposed to a roam-around-doing-good premise), design team, and budget, could go a long way. He also notes that the Sci-fi channel, or SyFy, or whatever they call themselves now, has been trying and failing for many years. Oh well.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Lenar Labs™

He also notes that the Sci-fi channel, or SyFy, or whatever they call themselves now, has been trying and failing for many years. Oh well.

Has Syfy ever done any other than produce B-movie adaptations of bad pulp science fiction novels? Oh, and make a kajillon Stargate series spinoffs- that too.

Actually, come to think of it, their Dune miniseries was pretty decent, if you could slog through all six hours of it.

[Sudanna]

The various Stargates have been rather good, and surprisingly unique - and really, there's only two spinoffs, three if you count the movie as the original. I also thank them for being one of the only channels that I can find the Twilight Zone and it's lookalikes on. Just about every movie ever shown on that channel is awful, as was Star Trek: Enterprise, but overall I'm thankful that the channel exists.

[Alorael at Large]

Battlestar Galactica managed to snag some serious acclaim for Sci-Fi.

 

—Alorael, who sees no harm in pointless discussion of a TV show or movie that will never be made. It's no more useless than discussion of worlds and characters that will never exist

[Sudanna]

I was going to mention BG, but I've never watched it.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

When I started this, I was trying to see if any of this was possible (if even by a long shot). I believe it is somewhat possible because we have a great storyline, characters, and environment. This is just my view. Agree, disagree, or agree to disagree how you may see fit, to me it's something worth mentioning.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg

When I started this, I was trying to see if any of this was possible (if even by a long shot).

no

[Randomizer]

I agree with Lilith.

 

How many viewers are going to watch beginning level characters fight a bunch of goblins? The interesting stuff doesn't happen until much later.

[Tirien]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

How many viewers are going to watch beginning level characters fight a bunch of goblins? The interesting stuff doesn't happen until much later.

I would... >.>

[Tyranicus]

Eureka is another great show on SyFy.

[Thaluikhain]

It's a good idea, but I think, realistically, some changes have to be made.

 

For example, get rid of all the slith and nephil business...the main characters should include one emotionally fragile teen coming to terms with having superpowers. Also, a "too cool for school" bad girl type, in a big coat. Preferrably the illegimate daughter of Batman and Catwoman.

 

Oh, and they should fight crime, and live in a giant clock for no adaquately explored reason.

 

Admittedly, this is something of a departure from the original material, but it seems likely to be more along the lines of how such a series would end up.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

How many viewers are going to watch beginning level characters fight a bunch of goblins? The interesting stuff doesn't happen until much later.

Actually, it's definitely possible to make an encounter with goblins interesting; it'd become boring if it happened a lot though.

[Slawbug]

Yeah, compare to how random vampire fights were handled on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Nonetheless,

 

no

[Alorael at Large]

The problem isn't the series itself. The problem is the fact that the chances of anyone deciding to turn it into a series are negligible. We can discuss it, but unless anyone has an in with scriptwriters, producers, and the rest of the required crew of characters, it won't go anywhere.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't think you need random goblin fights to remake the games. Pare it down to the essential plot, then add characters who can actually make the story interesting.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Not just the essential plot; some of the more interesting side-quests could make good episodes, I bet.

[Tirien]

Like the goblin mine in A6?

[Celtic Minstrel]

Maybe (haven't played A6 yet). But there's the nephil fort in A2 (maybe also in A1, though it's likely less interesting there); Lost Bahssikava in A1, perhaps the Verdant Valley (or whatever it was called) in A2, or the consequences of stealing from the portal guy in A3. And I'm sure there are others.

[Slawbug]

The Verdant Valley has got to be one of the least interesting, and least-related-to-anything-at-all, "sidequests" ever, if you can even call it one. It's basically a lot of cave floor and cave wall and pit terrain with random monsters thrown on top of it, plus one generic bandit building and one salamander cave. I mean, really.

 

The lairs of the crackpot crystal souls, or the Lava Dome, on the other hand...

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Slartucker

The lairs of the crackpot crystal souls, or the Lava Dome, on the other hand...

The Lava Dome is interesting for sure, but it's pretty random.

Dikiyoba's favorite dungeon of A2 is the Vahnatai Fortress.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Originally Posted By: Slartucker

The lairs of the crackpot crystal souls, or the Lava Dome, on the other hand...

The Lava Dome is interesting for sure, but it's pretty random.

Dikiyoba's favorite dungeon of A2 is the Vahnatai Fortress.

By far the best dungeons were the end labs in G1/G2. Nothing in the Avernum series even remotely compares.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

By far the best dungeons were the end labs in G1/G2. Nothing in the Avernum series even remotely compares.

This would be a far more compelling statement if you weren't a giant Geneforge fanatic.

Dikiyoba.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

By far the best dungeons were the end labs in G1/G2. Nothing in the Avernum series even remotely compares.

What about the Gremlin's Cave, Final Gauntlet or Hawthorne's Castle in E1/A1?
What about the Hall of Records, Akhronath, or Garzahd's Fortress in E2/A2?
What about the Golem Towers, Tower of Zkal, Third Wall or Rentar's Fortress in E3/A3?

Surely some of these must compare at least a little more remotely than you let on!

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

The Verdant Valley has got to be one of the least interesting, and least-related-to-anything-at-all, "sidequests" ever, if you can even call it one. It's basically a lot of cave floor and cave wall and pit terrain with random monsters thrown on top of it, plus one generic bandit building and one salamander cave. I mean, really.

The relatedness of the side-quest to the plot is irrelevant. I suppose it may not be the most interesting side-quest, but it's reasonably interesting, it has gremlins, and it has an obvious goal (the quest about missing arrows). I think it could make a pretty decent filler episode.

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

In addition to locale, design, and other aspect of the overall portrayal of the exotic underworld, one must also consider the selection of the main characters: an audience could care less about the Lava Dome or gremlins if they cannot empathize with the people doing the exploring. It might as well be a nature documentary, otherwise.

 

That said, the difficulty becomes in selecting a cast of characters that both accurately portrays what one would expect to be the "normal" party selected in these games, and that the target audience can connect to on an emotional level.

 

One possibility is using the four prefab characters as leads, as they would be faithful to the source material, and would also be easier to manage from a writing and production standpoint than a group of six, as seen in the Exile prefabs.

The only problem that I can see with using the prefab party is that each unique player has had and will have their own unique experience(s) with this party, and certain choices in character development will inevitably clash with the personal experiences of the fans of the games.

Alternately, then, the six-person party, as seen in Exile 2 and 3, would give a fair spread of characters to which the audience can relate, as well as emphasize the exotic world by including both a Slith and a Nephil in the party, instead of just the Slith given in the A2/3 prefabs. The difficulty here lies in maintaining a party dynamic while exploring individual sets of relationships. Consider your favorite television program: more often than not, sets of characters will be separated into smaller groups in order to advance character or plot development. This is not possible with the generic party as Avernum presents it (though, obviously, it's probably better to ignore that aspect of the game for a television series).

Also alternatively, it may be more wise to abandon the prefabs altogether, and create a set of characters based on roles, archetypes, and audience expectations, instead of playing as close to the source material as possible. This allows for fans of the game to maintain their unique experiences while enjoying a portrayal of the world and story from a different perspective.

 

Finally, even in character development, we must choose an overarching goal for the writing in the series: is this merely to portray the underworld, or are we looking specifically to tell its story? Are we trying to expand Spiderweb's fan base, or expand the ways that it can share with the world? Is this a full port of Avernum to the screen, or is it an adaptation?

Or is it a combination of any degrees of these?

 

_________________________

The Silent Assassin reminds you that character isn't everything: large explosions are essential for the success of any media venture, cult, drama, radio, film, or otherwise.

[waterplant]

Sounds like you're really up for this Lenar...

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Lenar Labs™

That said, the difficulty becomes in selecting a cast of characters that both accurately portrays what one would expect to be the "normal" party selected in these games, and that the target audience can connect to on an emotional level.

One possibility is using the four prefab characters as leads, as they would be faithful to the source material, and would also be easier to manage from a writing and production standpoint than a group of six, as seen in the Exile prefabs.
The only problem that I can see with using the prefab party is that each unique player has had and will have their own unique experience(s) with this party, and certain choices in character development will inevitably clash with the personal experiences of the fans of the games.
Alternately, then, the six-person party, as seen in Exile 2 and 3, would give a fair spread of characters to which the audience can relate, as well as emphasize the exotic world by including both a Slith and a Nephil in the party, instead of just the Slith given in the A2/3 prefabs. The difficulty here lies in maintaining a party dynamic while exploring individual sets of relationships. Consider your favorite television program: more often than not, sets of characters will be separated into smaller groups in order to advance character or plot development. This is not possible with the generic party as Avernum presents it (though, obviously, it's probably better to ignore that aspect of the game for a television series).
Also alternatively, it may be more wise to abandon the prefabs altogether, and create a set of characters based on roles, archetypes, and audience expectations, instead of playing as close to the source material as possible. This allows for fans of the game to maintain their unique experiences while enjoying a portrayal of the world and story from a different perspective.

There's also the possibility of the party not remaining constant throughout the series. One character may die off, another join up; someone may be left behind and picked up later. This even fits in the mechanics of Avernum.

Originally Posted By: Lenar Labs™

Finally, even in character development, we must choose an overarching goal for the writing in the series: is this merely to portray the underworld, or are we looking specifically to tell its story? Are we trying to expand Spiderweb's fan base, or expand the ways that it can share with the world? Is this a full port of Avernum to the screen, or is it an adaptation?

Well, I think it would be an adaptation, and the primary focus should be on telling the story; however, portraying the underworld is also important, and filler episodes (which don't advance the story) would take that as their primary goal.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

A group of people are sent through the portal. They arrive in Fort Avernum in the caves of Exile under the government of Avernum. They are told by Andrew to visit Tor for supplies and Tharl for information.

After they have done this, they go over to the bar to await the next caravan to Silvar. They meet another group also waiting. They talk and decide that together they should be tough enough to make the trip to Silvar. So they head out.

Along the way, they are ambushed by goblins and Nephilim. The humans fight hard and win, but most of them fall in battle. The surviving four continue the trip to Silvar where they buy better armor and weapons, train to better their skills, and buy other supplies to continue their journey.

This is the story of the group commonly known as Hawthorne's Assassins!

 

 

 

How's this for a good start!

[nikki.]

There's plenty of room for improvement. You didn't even say that the crack team of assassins were thrown into the portal for crimes they did not commit, nor mention how they were soldiers of fortune.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Too true. I did forget all of that stuff. I read Celtic Minstrel's post and decided to right then write a little story down. I was more focused on speed than material. Let me write some stuff down and I'll put it here in about 2 or 3 days time to see how y'all like it. It'll be an expansion of my above post with the added trips to Fort Duvno, Bandit Fort, and Unfinished Fort.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: nikki.

There's plenty of room for improvement. You didn't even say that the crack team of assassins were thrown into the portal for crimes they did not commit, nor mention how they were soldiers of fortune.

Nonono, they have to be reluctant badasses with a tormented past, possibly involving an overly simplistic backstory where the Empire killed their father/son/daughter/spouse. Sheesh, get your tropes right!

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

Obviously, one is an assassin sent for crimes not committed, one is a reluctant badass who has been orphaned by the cruel Empire, one is the heretic who got what they deserved, and is repenting, and one just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Others that they meet along the way are the Gallant Soldier of Fortune, the Mysterious Mage who is Actively Avoiding a Rather Mundane Confrontation, the Lawful Stupid, the Noble Slith, the Nephil Theif, the Completely Innocent Companion who turns out to be a Spy, the Guy With a Big Sword who is Obviously NOT Compensating for ANYTHING, Jack Shepherd, John Locke, and of course, That one Underworld Native that for No Reason Whatsoever Got Selected as Part of the Surface Explorers.

 

... I may have to add that Completely Innocent guy to my cast for Adventurer's Journey.

 

_________________________

The Silent Assassin points out that while copper makes a pretty blue flame, putting it into solution is much more time consuming than applying a pie to a face.

This, of course, has nothing to do with my asking him about why the fridge was disassembled and strewn throughout the bunker. Again. I don't know why I even bother.

[Tirien]

Originally Posted By: Lenar Labs™

...Jack Shepherd, John Locke...

You have just ruined it for me. I'll never be able to play any of the Avernum series without thinking of them.

At least he didnt include Jack Bauer (or however his name is spelled).

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Let me get this straight. I need to develop chararter backstories to come to terms on how they got to Avernum in the first place and to tell how they got the skills they have now.

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

While the story by which a character becomes who they are is essential to the character's development, it is not as important as the story of how they develop into who they become (aka, the main storyline).

 

In a situation like this, while it is nice to know how a character gained x points in item lore, it is more important to understand how these points can be used to reflect on the character's personality and motivations. Likewise, while the reason why a certain character was Exiled is an integral part of who this character is, how they respond to Exile and what they choose to do about it is more significant to the story at hand.

 

The best part about backstory is that the details can be made up as you go along.

 

@ IFZ: If one little offhand joke ruined your experience, the foundation must not have been very good to start with

Then again, looking for the Oceanic survivors in Avernum could be quite... entertaining.

 

_________________________

The Silent Assassin is motivated to warn you about the incoming Snergle invasion.

If you have to ask what Snergles are, it's too late. They've got you already.

[Tirien]

Im sure someone is going to make a Blades scenario based on Lost now... If someone does, I will need to shove a screwdriver into my skull.

[VCH]

I know eh, Lost was such a terrible waste of time. The last two seasons just did not need to exist.

[Randomizer]

After the second season it could have become lost. The creators were more interested in creating questions than letting the viewers know what was happening.

[VCH]

I think they should have just ended the series without answering any of the big questions. Sure, people would have been angry, but really the answers they did provide were super-lame. Better to just leave the island a mystery