New Jeff Interview on Podcast

[Acky]

It's 45 minutes, so get your popcorn

 

The highlight, imo, is when he talks about the new game.

[Lilith]

is there going to be a transcript or something because my attention span is nowhere near 45 minutes

[Acky]

Edit: Damn it.

[Randomizer]

Most of it's the history of Spiderweb Games and Avernum, but about halfway through Jeff mentions the new game:

 

No title since he's still getting it legally protected.

 

It's based on an opera he saw.

 

It's using a modified Geneforge game engine.

 

The characters will be using four classes and less of a classless game system that has been used in past games.

 

It will be harder to make bad characters that can't finish the game because you put the skill points in the wrong skills.

[Acky]

The more Geneforge style party creation was a little surprising to me, actually. I had always gotten the impression that Avernum was more popular because of its generic party system, and in fact most people didn't like the limitations placed on them in Geneforge.

[VCH]

Blue Beard's Castle has a pretty cool story actually. I can see how Jeff was inspired by it.

 

 

Sometimes doors are best left closed

[keira]

Just downloaded it, listening now

[A less presumptuous name.]

[EDIT] Ignore this.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

is there going to be a transcript or something because my attention span is nowhere near 45 minutes

tl; dr; agree

 

—Alorael, who plays everything at double speed. Chipmunk voices are a small price to pay for efficiency.

[jlsgaladriel]

Oh, heck, I guess class-bounded characters are easier to play and harder to break, but I like flexibility. I thought Jeff had a pretty good compromise going in Avernum, in which he offers balanced starting characters, which I am then free to ignore!

 

I do like the Geneforge system for its replay value: a character who relies on shaping plays very differently from one who's fighting and/or casting her own way through battles. It's more of an ability-based distinction than a restrictive class system, though, so I doubt that's what he means. Designing something which adds variety is very different from designing something to make character design easy or unbreakable.

 

The podcast is now on my iphone...

[Lilith]

i too am surprised that jeff would move to more of a class-based system given that one of his explicit goals when making exile 1 was to not do that

 

but i guess it's been a while since exile 1

[Sudanna]

He says as much.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

i too am surprised that jeff would move to more of a class-based system given that one of his explicit goals when making exile 1 was to not do that

but i guess it's been a while since exile 1

*cough*Geneforge*cough*

[Xaiya]

grr

 

If only what they said was typed up...

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

*cough*Geneforge*cough*

that's still essentially a skill-based system, any class can do anything it's just some classes are pretty bad at doing some things

i mean you might as well say that Fallout has a class-based system because the skills you tag are easier to raise

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

I detect no trace of sarcasm, irony or smarm in that post, Thuryl. Are you getting a little too liberal with the punctuationless lowercase?

 

EDIT: Oh, okay, so while I made this post you edited it, like you knew what I was going to say! Wow!

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

that's still essentially a skill-based system, any class can do anything it's just some classes are pretty bad at doing some things

Isn't the whole point of a class system that you are better at some skills than others?

[Sudanna]

No, it's that you can do certain things and not others. Separate skill trees, stats, whatever.

[inni]

the next game will be interesting, not sure how jeff will fit a story-line into it.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: I need no introduction

the next game will be interesting, not sure how jeff will fit a story-line into it.

He's quite good at that, actually. In case you haven't noticed.

[jlsgaladriel]

Yep, three parties (?) -- I wasn't sure if he was talking about affiliations, or group size -- characters chosen from four types with radically different abilities. This is done for variety's sake (hooray!) but also so that even folks with poor skill-choosing abilities won't lock themselves out of a successful finish. ::shrugs::

 

Jeff mentioned many times the importance of branching plotlines, such that one feels the effects of decisions made during the game. (This is one of my favourite things about Jeff's games, so again: hooray!)

 

Oh, and he's keeping a log of all the game details, so his dragons won't change sexes from one installation to another!

 

No hints of world design, other than the reference to the opera, and he says while it sparked some good ideas, its influence won't be obvious. Jeff's building a carefully crafted deep immersive world, but, well, that's kind of like saying water's wet and chocolate is delicious.

 

Planned release is early 2011.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

Oh, and he's keeping a log of all the game details, so his dragons won't change sexes from one installation to another!

OF course this assumes that he will be able to find his log of game details. He has had trouble finding game source code.

The part I found funny is if you listen closely, you can hear a Vogel offspring in the background.

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

The part I found funny is if you listen closely, you can hear a Vogel offspring in the background.

Yep, I actually played the podcast while in the tub, so for a while I wasn't certain if there was a ruckus in my own house, or on the podcast. I kept thinking I should pause the play to check, but didn't seem like knowing the answer was worth handling electronics while wet.

[Locmaar]

Originally Posted By: J.P Diddy

The more Geneforge style party creation was a little surprising to me, actually. I had always gotten the impression that Avernum was more popular because of its generic party system, and in fact most people didn't like the limitations placed on them in Geneforge.

Maybe my attention span is too short as well, but when he was talking about the game's engine being based on Geneforge's I did not hear him talk about party creation. Wouldn't make much sense anyway, what with you party being this one dude/dudess.

[Men are from Slars]

The feminine of dude is usually dudette.

 

Just sayin'.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

Planned release is early 2011.

For mac, or Windows?

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Fall of the Misunderstood Empire

The feminine of dude is usually dudette.

Just sayin'.

True, but weird. Typically the -ette denotes something smaller, like a kitchenette. Dudess makes more sense.

[Men are from Slars]

2011? Does that mean Jeff is actually going to release no new games in all of 2010?

 

The -ette suffix is used in English for smaller counterparts as well as female counterparts. -ess is another possibility for female counterparts, although it doesn't seem to be used to produce new words anymore -- I can't think of any remotely recent words that use -ess, while I can think of a decent handful that use -ette, like dudette and kitchenette above.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Fall of the Misunderstood Empire

2011? Does that mean Jeff is actually going to release no new games in all of 2010?.

Well, for Windows users he wll release A6

[Acky]

If you guys have never noticed, Jeff (and other game designers alike) always give themselves a few more months ahead of when they actually plan to release the game. Unless this game is as complex as BoA/E, it'll undoubtedly be released sometime in November or December, like it always is.

 

It's always better to hear "The game's coming out a little earlier than we though" instead of "Sorry, but looks like the game won't be here till next year."

 

Quote:

Maybe my attention span is too short as well, but when he was talking about the game's engine being based on Geneforge's I did not hear him talk about party creation. Wouldn't make much sense anyway, what with you party being this one dude/dudess.

He was talking about how the party will be based off of Geneforges class system (Agents, Serviles, Warriors etc). There's just gonna be 4 of them, and you can only choose 3. Or so he says.

[Men are from Slars]

Originally Posted By: J.P Diddy

If you guys have never noticed, Jeff (and other game designers alike) always give themselves a few more months ahead of when they actually plan to release the game.

I dunno, Jeff's estimates have been accurate to the month for at least for the last five years. And other game designers definitely do not do as you suggest -- I hate to keep citing Eschalon Book II's ever-growing delay, but...

[Acky]

I was speaking generally, of course there are exceptions. And I wasn't restricting my point to just indie companies.

[Randomizer]

When Jeff doesn't have to make a new game engine it does speed up the process. Most of his time is devoted to the scripts for plot and dialog. He can get the game out fairly quickly if a major game engine problem doesn't occur.

 

Basilisk Games made a major revision to the game engine to add new features. However that really doesn't explain the delays for larger companies with hundreds of employees.

[jlsgaladriel]

Originally Posted By: acky

He was talking about how the party will be based off of Geneforges class system (Agents, Serviles, Warriors etc).

Oh! I didn't think that was at all what he was saying. (See above for what I heard him say.)

Originally Posted By: dantius

Planned release is early 2011.
For mac, or Windows?

Jeff always releases first for mac. Hopefully the archon's right, and he's just giving himself breathing room.

On the other hand, building a whole new system, even on top of a geneforge core engine, has got to be more work than modifying an engine for a new release in a series.

[goblindolf]

Quote:

It's based on an opera he saw.

I'm imagining characters in tutus singing their way through the game.

Evil monster, you will dieeee!
Fireballlll!
I am slainnn!

Quote:

It's using a modified Geneforge game engine.

aww
Hopefully its modified to bring ourdoors back.

Quote:

The characters will be using four classes and less of a classless game system that has been used in past games.

I liked the generic avernum type system myself.
I guess you will only have one party member, which is why he went with the geneforge system, the geneforge class system would be strange if you had 4 party members.

[keira]

Originally Posted By: J.P Diddy

.

It's always better to hear "The game's coming out a little earlier than we though" instead of "Sorry, but looks like the game won't be here till next year."

Tell that to Blizzard's Starcraft II team.

[La paix]

This sounds very intriguing. It would be fun to look up what operas are playing in the Seattle area. Any one might turn into a game. All I can say is, I kind of hope this opera he saw was not the Ring Cycle. That would be...well...I'm not sure...but I don't think I'd like it. It would be too destined to be like Lord of The Rings, since that's what it's based on, more or less. Well, with Jeff's talent, you never know. I'll wait and see. Whatever this new game will be, I'm pretty much certain that it will be great.

[jlsgaladriel]

No, he specified that it was an Hungarian opera, Bluebeard's Castle. Although he also said while it provided idea inspiration for him, the game would in no way be obviously derived from the opera.

 

Still, I don't think I'll open that seventh door.

[Enraged Slith]

BLARG

[Men are from Slars]

!!!

 

I sure wasn't expecting it to be a Bartok opera! Yeesh.

 

Bartok = win.

[Randomizer]

You are Bluebeard's wife and must survive [insert time period] in the Castle.

[Callie]

I somehow read Bartok as Bob Dylan, which left me rather confused...

 

(I was listening to Bob Dylan when I read this thread)

[Milla]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

Oh, and he's keeping a log of all the game details, so his dragons won't change sexes from one installation to another!

And no more losing entire continents between games?

What a time to be alive.

Oh and the plot of the opera reminds me of the Tale of Mr. Fox.

"Be bold, be bold- but not too bold, lest that your heart's blood should run cold."

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

Planned release is early 2011.

For mac, or Windows?

If Jeff follows his normal game release pattern, the mac version will be out first, followed by the windows version several months later.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Fractal

This sounds very intriguing. It would be fun to look up what operas are playing in the Seattle area. Any one might turn into a game. All I can say is, I kind of hope this opera he saw was not the Ring Cycle. That would be...well...I'm not sure...but I don't think I'd like it. It would be too destined to be like Lord of The Rings, since that's what it's based on, more or less. Well, with Jeff's talent, you never know. I'll wait and see. Whatever this new game will be, I'm pretty much certain that it will be great.

The lack of operatic knowledge makes my head wince. Wagner's Ring cycle was based on Norse mythology, and written during the 1800's. LOTR was totally not based on WWII, not in the slightest, at all. Period. Ever. And it was written a century later. So no, there is no correlation between the two whatsoever.

[Men are from Slars]

That's not true -- LOTR draws explicitly from Norse mythoi; Tolkien was quite open about it. There is even an overlap in specific myths that Tolkien and Wagner draw from, so there definitely is a correlation, it just isn't a direct one.

[jlsgaladriel]

Somehow I'm trying to picture Galadriel as Brunhilde, and it's making my head hurt. ...Earth-daughter, protects /the great wizard's pet hobbit/ the great God's little human son, who two /books/ operas later becomes ring-crazed for a cursed ring which can only be purged in fire...

 

If anything, Tolkien stole all the good parts away from Brunhilde, and gave men all the good active bits. Eowyn's really got the most oomph to her, but Galadriel basically bestows a few gifts and sails west. The women's parts don't have much in common. But certainly that ring theme wasn't unknown to Tolkien.

[Randomizer]

Galadriel gets mentioned mostly in the appendicies. During the War of the Ring she leads the forces out of Lorien to destroy Dol Guldur. But in the main story she gets a few pages where she gets tempted and decides not to take the ring.

 

Tolkien had strong women, but they get shoved aside. Arwen is the great romance that happens off stage. Only with Eowyn and the hobbits do you have strong women getting any major time.

[Alorael at Large]

The hobbits? Not especially.

 

—Alorael, who still wouldn't make a strong case for equality in Tolkien. His setting is mythic and medieval. There wasn't equality, so there isn't equality.

[Men are from Slars]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

Arwen is the great romance that happens off stage.

Yes, and Eowyn is the incredibly poorly written romance that happens on stage, much to everyone's dismay. I really think that makes her a much less interesting character than Galadriel: here she is doing all this General Jinjur type stuff, but in the end she's only happy when she gets her man.

Galadriel on the other hand overshadows her male counterparts from the start of her tale. Like Eowyn, she is the "only female to stand tall in those days" but unlike Eowyn, she does not later shrink, certainly not in comparison with her mate. She's in the interesting and fairly unique position of not participating in the kinslaying but nonetheless refusing the pardon of the Valar. She more or less inherited the powers and role of a Maia, which no male elf can claim; she distrusted Sauron in his guise as Annatar when Celebrimbor and the other elves did not; and it was she, not Elrond, who had tried to have Gandalf, and not Saruman, made the head of the White Council. She also gets by far the best ring-temptation passage, particularly in light of her refusal of the Valar's pardon.