A New Series

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

I have noticed that many people feel that it's about time that Jeff makes a new series. I have to wonder, what do you see for the new series? Do you see something more modern with guns and armour, do you see a futuristic game, with space ships and multiple planets, or do you see the same type of game with magic and swords as the main weapons. What type of storyline do you see? I personally hope he finishes Geneforge first, but what do you think?

[Skrat]

I have always enjoyed the genre in Geneforge and would welcome further adventures here.

That being said, I also would enjoy a Medival type of theme with armor, horses, magicians, dragons, griffins, etc. Afterall, kings and knights are on quests and crusades, rescuing damsels in distress, besieging castles and whatnot. There are plenty of opportunities to use weapon technologies and face interesting foes.

[We Didn't Shard of Fire]

I honestly wouldn't mind modern or futuristic games after what Jeff's done. But I still like the, ah, less-than-perfect graphics. Overly detailed graphic lightshows make my eyes hurt.

[Dikiyoba]

For the record, this sort of topic belongs in General.

 

Anyway, I want to see a new series soon. Neither Avernum nor Geneforge should go past six games. I don't care where or when, but the new series should definitely be in a new setting with new characters, monsters, items, spells/abilities, etc. without being too stereotypical.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Pyro]

well in one of his interviews he said he'd like to make a paper mario type of game so ...

[Alorael at Large]

I wouldn't mind seeing that comedy RPG Jeff mentioned once. Other than that, I still have faith in Jeff's ability to come up with something good. While the execution in individual games isn't always perfect, I think the concepts behind Exile/Avernum, Geneforge, and Nethergate are all rock-solid.

 

—Alorael, who can live with the Geneforge plot continuing and even more hijinks in Avernum, although the latter needs some fresh events badly. What he really wants is a new engine, or perhaps more accurately an old engine. G4 grew on him, but he'll still take the Avernum engine over Geneforge's any day.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by Kyrek:
Do you see something more modern with guns and armour

In a perfect world, the powers that be would hire Jeff to make Fallout 3.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

Oh, sorry Dikiyoba. I thought that this thread would belong in this forum too, since in the other thread people were talking about ending Geneforge.

[Drayk Armitage]

The combat/character engine has undergone relatively minor changes after Nethergate, and that includes all the Avernum and Geneforge games. Although changes to the AP system and even the skill point system (in G1) are interesting it is still the same basic system with a lot of commonality.

 

I'd love to see something new, but we're going on ten years with this PC engine.

 

Shaping was certainly new, I guess.

[Alorael at Large]

The system has had very minor changes, but I'm okay with that. It's not broke, so don't fix it. THe engine, on the other hand, changed hugely (ground up rewrite, I believe) in G1. A4 moved back in the direction of Nethergate/Avernum, and I prefer it that way.

 

—Alorael, who really just does not like real-time in his RPGs. Baldur's Gate is acceptable because you can pause. Geneforge has no pause. Perhaps he should have been a beta-tester for G1 and requested a pause function then.

[Lattan]

I'd like to see the comedy RPG.

 

I'd also like to see something with a new system, perhaps a cyberpunk style (one that doesn't just depend on technology to replace all the magic stuff we have).

[wz. As]

What's wrong with using the esc key to pause?

[We Didn't Shard of Fire]

I think Alorael means being able to freeze all objects but still be able to move the screen around. I haven't played Baldur's Gate, though.

[Lord Safey]

The geneforge series has potential for one more game and (prehaps 2) I feel it should come to a close with in the next game. I would like to see a new game Jeff is very good at comeing up with good ideas. One thing I like to see (if its possible) would the PC to be a dragon/dragon like creature. An a possible alterntive to a completly new game is for Jeff is to make a game that happens in the geneforge world, but before Geneforge 1. Simlar world completly different story.

[*i]

A comedy game can be really hit or miss. You can tell one group of people a joke and they will find it hillarious. You then tell another group only to be encountered with blank stares. The point with humor is that it's fickle and difficult to do such that your audience will find it funny. Look at Rats Aplenty from the previous contest, had a very wide score distribution for this reason.

 

Primarily I would like to see a shift in the storyline in GF 4. The current Rebel/Shaper conflict has reached a logical climax with the unbound. More impressive superweapons will just be old news. A new direction, I feel is needed to keep things fresh.

 

That being said, I think a new game altogether might be in order. Perhaps Jeff could take a shot at more of a sci-fi game rather than more a fantasy one. I doubt this would happen, but it would be interesting to see nonetheless.

[Randomizer]

Jeff could do a more Nethergate style game where you can run a character or party through the game working for opposing sides. Then you get to see each view point and a differing skill set.

 

One case would be Arthurian legends where you could be a loyal supporter of Arthur or working for Modred to overthrow the regime. Plenty of opportunities for quests and a somewhat familiar world with swords and magic. It would save on making new graphics since most of the Geneforge ones could be used with guardians for knights, shapers for mages, and serviles for peasants.

[Drayk Armitage]

NO. We learned a valuable lesson in Avernum 4. Re-using graphics across different game series is disastrous. It's one thing to do it with something like goblins, that are more or less generic anyway, but old PC graphics do not go into that category. If I look at King Arthur and I see a Guardian, I will scream.

 

I got over Professor X turning into a booming, Shakespearean Captain Picard. I will not get over King Arthur looking like a Shaper.

[Alorael at Large]

I could live with King Arthur looking like King Micah, though. And yes, what I really want in Geneforge is a way to make people stop moving so I can click on them to talk.

 

—Alorael, who agrees that comedy can either be made into a hit or a miss, but it's quite possible to make something that is all hit and no miss. To draw analogies to old LucasArts point and click adventures, you can either go with the completely wacky (Monkey Island most recently, but plenty of the old Scumm games) or the overall serious with dashes of humor (Loom).

[Locmaar]

Quote:

And yes, what I really want in Geneforge is a way to make people stop moving so I can click on them to talk.

Thank you very much for showing me that I am not alone. Thank you, thank you.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

There was only ever one person in all the Geneforge games I had that problem with. It was that mage in Derenton Freehold that wanders from her building to halfway across the town. Other than her, I never had a problem with clicking on people to talk to them.

 

I'll also take this time to say how much I love the 'showmeall' cheat. In Avernum, I always had a feeling in big towns that I may have missed talking to a person wandering around the outdoor parts of the town. In some cases, I would, and I would talk to them for the first time on my tenth time playing through.

[Drayk Armitage]

That *is* a problem. I can think of a few other places it was especially bad. There were several annoying wanderers in Rivergate Keep -- Mouawad and Duncan both managed to start moving almost every time I was about to click on them, especially Mouawad.

 

However, that wouldn't be a problem if there was some kind of keyboard movement. Directional keys would be easy enough to respond to them with and move to intercept them. With the need to move the mouse and then click, it's often impossible, as by the time you have the mouse positioned correctly, they will be past you and you *can't* catch up with them.

 

The other thing that impedes this is the need to be within a certain range to talk, but the apparent inability to get their attention. So if I click on them directly, I end up following them past multiple rooms.

[Upon Mars.]

One day i looked upon the graphics of avernum and said why is there no martians then i a speak of light i got an idea why the new series wouldn't be based on A2 graphics with a intelligent theme what is humanity . As you walk on mars for the last time as a martian you prepare an invasion as earthlings tremble into fear of your heat ray and blood sucking blade.

Who would like that idea ?

[*i]

mars -- Please make your posts comprehensible. Also, please stop spamming. Thanks.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Deprecaticon:
The other thing that impedes this is the need to be within a certain range to talk, but the apparent inability to get their attention. So if I click on them directly, I end up following them past multiple rooms.

Usually I just deal with this by entering combat mode and running up right next to the person I want to talk to.

[Drayk Armitage]

That only works if you go ahead of the person in combat. Otherwise, there will be a very annoying three seconds of forced inaction while you watch *them* move first.

[Randomizer]

The only one I really had trouble talking to was Guardian Kantor in Valeya when I wanted credit for killing the Maddened Trall. As a lifecrafter or shocktrooper I had to block his path with creations so he couldn't pass until he talked. I tried to catch him at the points where he stopped, but that never worked.

[Upon Mars.]

Gentlemen, i am not spamming : the topic here is about an idea for an new game. So i came up with this, would you like sort of AV 3 graphic game with martians and humans were martian forced to survive migrate and exploit earth as they leave a mutant infested raged mars, drawing blood from humans considered as prey in the eyes of the aliens? I have a lot of ideas about that so why don't develop this idea instead of shaming me for my dyslexia and my bad writing.

Don't say i am spamming when i have difficulties to make people understand what am I saying.

[nikki.]

Mars - when you post like that, it's okay. It's fairly readable, and people can discuss it because they understand it.

 

We aren't shaming you because of your dyslexia, or whatever, but we have asked you to proof-read your posts, and run them through a spell-checker. It just makes it that little bit easier for us to read them, and if we can understand them without struggling, then we're much more likely to take you seriously.

 

Looking back, the post above is almost identical to the one before, but the new one is much clearer to read. If you try to post like that in future, I'm sure people will be a lot easier on you.

[Koranzite]

I think the idea of a space/futureistic game would be good.

But there could not be martians on mars because there is no air.

Unless...

martians lived underneath the surface...

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

I personally don't want Martians. I like the swords and sorcery way the series are going. I'd like for that to continue. I'd aso like there to be another type of different magic in the next series. I like the extra dimension, and missed it when I went to play Avernum 4.

[Upon Mars.]

Exactly i like the under ground idear what about then flora and fauna?

I think that hg wells book war of the worlds would be of interest

I have read that a red sort of rampaging weed being the dominant vegetation.

The fauna on mars would be mutants, humanoid insect like creatures being the cattle, the martians antelope like animals with 2 legs, carrion bird like insects and martians there is a picture about some of them :

 

http://drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/martian_war.jpg

 

On the left of the image : the martian on the right on the left the heads of the alien cattle.

[Alorael at Large]

I've come to the conclusion that aliens are largely unhelpful in stories. They can and should be replaced with humans, possibly slightly different humans, when another group is called for. If you just need a MacGuffin, or at most some kind of reasonable impetus for human action, fine, but the story is about humans.

 

—Alorael, who most of the time finds that alienness is a replacement for or excuse for the lack of plot and motivation. If aliens are too different to understand they make decent plot devices but terrible characters. If they're antagonists, the story falls into the category of man vs. nature, not man vs. creature.

[Skrat]

I know that I already expressed my thoughts about medival themes, and noticed King Athur mentioned. I would like to expand a little...

The concept of starting out as a page or knight-in-training and then advancing levels to become a full-fledged knight might be interesting. Being able to acquire armor and swords, crossbows, short and long bows, mace and other such malicious war items which could be enhanced magically... all of these ideas fit nicely with the Geneforge concepts.

Characters could range from sorcerors to witches to provide the magic component.

What really would be interesting would be the ability to ride a horse. I don't know if Jeff could program that into the game, but it would add an interesting element.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Skrat:
What really would be interesting would be the ability to ride a horse. I don't know if Jeff could program that into the game, but it would add an interesting element.

The Exile and Avernum series have horses, but they're pretty disappointing -- all they do is let you move faster, and you can't fight on them.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

Horses would add a new, interesting dimension to combat. However, to even cmbat out you would have to add a weakness to cavalry, and in turn add a weakness to ground melee, missile and magic fighting. It would be complicated, and tough to pull off in a pleasing way, but if it worked a great factor to the games.

[Upon Mars.]

In that case there is no better idea than saving damsels, killing demons and dragons and battling evil wizards is there?

You may like those idea which are pretty good but you kiln desperately on them.

Try to find new ideas grounds look at other games be informed and then ideas start fizzing all over the place.

to illustrate my idea here is an example: personally, i think that avernum was inspired by the the history of australia and america alike where the english king sent the prisoners in as well as explorers, soldiers and other materials overseas.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

Of course there are better ideas. I'm just talking about the actual gameplay, not the story. You could easily come up with something other than that while using horses in a game.

[Skrat]

The original thread here was to post ideas regarding the genre of a game as well as possible story scenarios, not necessarily the details of plot. In any game there will be those intricacies of who, where and why that enhance the general theme and make a game more interesting to play. To imply that we need to 'be informed' isn't really a great way to inspire brainstorming. I am sure that most people here have played different games and have returned to Spiderweb because of the appeal and fun that Jeff and company create. I think that generating ideas like those posted is not being 'kiln desperately' (whatever that means). Rather, these are just some thoughts on a particular genre. I, personally, am not stuck on any one idea and welcome all to be open minded.

[Upon Mars.]

Sorry i got over excited and to kiln is to hold.

It is english.

[Alorael at Large]

Are you sure? Kiln doesn't mean hold in any English I know.

 

—Alorael, who also couldn't find it with the miracle of the internet. If it's not online it can't be true!

[wary wanderer]

kiln

 

n. Any of various ovens for hardening, burning, or drying substances such as grain, meal, or clay, especially a brick-lined oven used to bake or fire ceramics.

 

tr.v. kilned, kiln·ing, kilns

To process in one of these ovens.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

[Middle English kilne, from Old English cyln, from Latin culna, kitchen, stove; see pekw- in Indo-European roots.]

[Koranzite]

Perhaps he means kling(to hold on)

[Kelandon]

Er, "cling."

 

This is what I don't get about upon mars's mis-spellings: sometimes they're obvious typos, which is fine, and sometimes they're mis-spellings due to pronunciation (like "idear," I'm guessing), but sometimes they're not at all. No one pronounces "cling" like "kiln" that I'm aware of, nor could one be a typing mistake for the other, nor do they particularly look alike so as to be confused with one another.

 

So how do they happen?

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Me and Drakey have already decided that he's doing it on purpose. The final tell was when he said something like 'snivelization.' Sometimes his misspellings are too good to be true.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
Me and Drakey have already decided that he's doing it on purpose. The final tell was when he said something like 'snivelization.' Sometimes his misspellings are too good to be true.

He already admitted to doing that one on purpose. Just because he can't spell doesn't mean he can't make puns.

My research supervisor last year had dyslexia, and he really did botch the spelling of words in inexplicable and inconsistent ways.

[Skrat]

Having a learning disability does explain misspellings, etc. I will be more patient in trying to read the content of upon mars' postings rather that the syntax and semantics. Spell check won't solve these issues as it will allow proper spelling of words regardless of sentence meaning (i.e. 'kiln' instead of 'cling').

This should however make upon mars more diligent in ensuring that his postings are legible and clear. (Afterall, I wouldn't drive my car without glasses if I was myopic.) His postings do generate thoughts and discussion, which is the point of these boards.

[Randomizer]

There used to be grammar checkers that would catch more of the mistakes because of context. I never liked them because they kept insisting on changing the voice I was using.

[We Didn't Shard of Fire]

And grammar-checkers often suggest lengthier and less coherent alternatives to your sentences.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Randomizer:
I never liked them because they kept insisting on changing the voice I was using.

Microsoft Word's grammar checker still tries to do that, and usually fails hilariously in suggesting a "better" phrasing.

[Alorael at Large]

Microsoft's spelling and grammar checker is obnoxious, intrusive, and often incorrect. It's also infuriatingly tenacious. I cannot deactivate all of it, and I can't get most of it to stay off when I quit and reopen Word. It's particularly murderous on formatting.

 

—Alorael, who has repeatedly gone back to his old Appleworks. It's barely even Carbonized but it runs flawlessly, and it lets the one doing the writing write.