Chittering Clawbug BlackDragon Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 A bit of quick background: I played the original Exile-trilogy extensively as a kid, and have had a lot of fun re-playing EftP and CS over the past few weeks. Unfortunately, I suspect it'll be at least a year or two before we see Avernum 3: Ruined World, and I'm contemplating giving the rest of Jeff's output a chance in the meantime. I bought Avadon when it first came out, and I think I have Nethergate: Resurrection kicking around somewhere, too. Neither really stuck with me, but what with the new Avadon 2: Corruption being out, I'm thinking about giving it another chance. I've also heard a bunch of interesting things about the Geneforge-series, which I've never even touched. Considering that I loved Exile and love the new Avernum-remakes, which route should I take? Avadon, or Geneforge? I suppose I should mention WHAT I like about Exile/Avernum, though. One thing I like is the almost Metroidvania-esque way the world gradually unlocks - get clearances, learn Move Mountain and get higher levels of Dispel Barrier, obtain the Orb of Thralnir, find the Blessed Athame... and, in the original series, there was stuff like Firewalking, too. As you do stuff, more areas, quests and elements become accessible, and you can go back to that cave you noticed on the other side of a chasm and finally explore it now that you can fly, etc. I also like the huge number of available quests - for most of the game, there's a genuinely open world around you, and no matter which direction you turn in, there'll be someone ready to pay you for beating someone (or someTHING) up. The reputation-system is a nice touch too, making it so most people actually respond to you in a way suitable to the number of world-saving quests you've accomplished. It always annoys me how, in many RPG's, you can save the world ten times over and nobody seems to notice. One thing I DIDN'T much care for in the new remakes (as opposed to the original Exile-games) is the narrow scope of weapons and powers. Small number of spells, with many classics missing (Where's my fireball/firestorm?!?), small number of weapon-types that basically just boils down to the choice between '1-handed sword' and '2-handed polearm'. No greatswords, no axes, no blunt weapons like maces or hammers, no special ammunition for bows... heck, even the 'Lightning Rod' javelins are gone. I generally prefer having a bit more freedom to customize my characters. Eager to hear your recommendations based on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 maybe this helps: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/20967-similar-games-to-avernumgeneforgeavadon/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug BlackDragon Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 maybe this helps: http://spiderwebforu...eneforgeavadon/ Hmm... not particularly. That seems to be about finding Spiderweb-esque games OUTSIDE of Spiderweb's games. And I've already played most of them. I'm debating which Spiderweb-games to try based on enjoying Exile and Avernum specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Dikiyoba recommends giving Nethergate: Resurrection another try first, since it's highly regarded here and written just after the Exile series, so it should be the most similar to it in terms of options and exploration and so on. Next, try Geneforge 1. It doesn't have as many options (later Geneforges have more spells, creations, Shaper classes), but it has an open world and a great story. The demo is nice and large, so you'll know whether it's for you or not well before you need to buy it. Avadon is small and very linear compared to Avernum. Triumph, Tyranicus and Slawbug 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Languorous_Maiar Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Do not want to be picky but: It always annoys me how, in many RPG's, you can save the world ten times over and nobody seems to notice. In most cases, they still don't notice. Even if you have crown clearance and hero reputation, dialogues of characters after ending the quests doesn't change and they still hope you will get... better clearance. As for thread itself: Avadon is cool, but nothing more. You shouldn't except nothing better than average from it. It's 100% linear, and there are no choices. But still, I advice to play it. As for games in generally: You tried Arcanum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah, I'd pretty much second all Diki's suggestions. Nethergate: Resurrection is one of my favorite games ever. The Geneforge series is also well worth trying out (and it's best to start with G1). Especially the first two Geneforge games have a a feeling of open exploration somewhat reminiscent of Avernum (exploration is still totally part of the later games, but you don't get quite as much freedom). Personally, I don't care for Avadon at all. Just not my cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk stranger Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Since it could be a long time, you might try Avernum 3. If you want to wait that out, Blades of Avernum has some excellent scenarios to enjoy after Jeff's. Did you play Nethergate: R? It's regarded as one of the best in the catalogue. The Geneforge series is probably his most unique work. It's fun and a very different experience to these others. You can give any a try and see if they stick with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug BlackDragon Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Oddly, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here who didn't find Avadon as engaging as Exile/Avernum... I was afraid I just didn't 'get it' or something. On the other hand, hearing such rousing words about Nethergate makes me want to take another spin through it. Otherwise, I guess I should give Geneforge a chance to impress me, then. I DO enjoy a good Sci-Fi RPG, which is a surprisingly rare breed... but on the other hand, I've heard some rumors about the later Geneforge-games being quite dark, bleak and depressing, and I generally have an aversion against overly 'grimdark' games. I think the key in games like Exile/Avernum is that, yeah, things be effed-up at the start, but you - the player - have a chance to make them better. Makes it feel like a real accomplishment, y'know? Some games are so eager to seem 'dark' that they basically cut out the player's ability to create anything resembling a 'happy ending', 'cuz that would mess with the atmosphere... and making the whole thing seem pointless as a side-effect. Why bother when you won't make anything better anyway? Of course, I don't know if Geneforge tends that far in that direction... As for games in generally: You tried Arcanum? You mean Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magics Obscura? Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Good times. Never finished it, though - got annoyed by a few bugs and deeply horrified by a certain side-quest that lacked anything resembling a good ending. See above. Damn gnomes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Some games are so eager to seem 'dark' that they basically cut out the player's ability to create anything resembling a 'happy ending', 'cuz that would mess with the atmosphere... and making the whole thing seem pointless as a side-effect. Why bother when you won't make anything better anyway? Of course, I don't know if Geneforge tends that far in that direction... G1 and G2 certainly don't go that far (although the story of G2 does rely on the G1 protagonist being fairly useless. G3 and G4 are bleak (the player still has power in G4, it's just doesn't make the world any less dark), but then G5 goes back to happier endings. But you could play G1 and G2, then leave the series feeling mostly satisfied, or just skip ahead to G5. (There's no real reason to play G3 ever, but the first two-thirds of G4 is good enough that it might be worth playing.) G5 might even be a better experience without G3 and G4 knowledge as baggage (G5 has lots of retcons, unfortunately). Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug BlackDragon Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 G1 and G2 certainly don't go that far (although the story of G2 does rely on the G1 protagonist being fairly useless. G3 and G4 are bleak (the player still has power in G4, it's just doesn't make the world any less dark), but then G5 goes back to happier endings. But you could play G1 and G2, then leave the series feeling mostly satisfied, or just skip ahead to G5. (There's no real reason to play G3 ever, but the first two-thirds of G4 is good enough that it might be worth playing.) G5 might even be a better experience without G3 and G4 knowledge as baggage (G5 has lots of retcons, unfortunately). Dikiyoba. ...I think I just flashed back to Algebra-class for a bit there. >_> I feel confused and worried about my homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Let me jump on the Nethergate and Geneforge 1 suggestion train. They share with the Exile series (and Exile 2 in particular) the freshness and crispness, especially in terms of story. Those two games, especially Nethergate, are the closest in terms of Metroidvania acquisition of enabling abilities. No other SW games will be quite like Exile 1 or 2 in that regard, but Nethergate and G1 are the next most open-ended and most progressive-accessive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt TriRodent Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I was having the same sort of mental conversation with myself earlier as well. It's been a couple of years but I decided that after finishing up with A2CS I'd redo the Geneforge series starting from the beginning. While the graphics of 1 are pretty basic, like a typical SW game the story really draws you in & your imagination fills in the details quite easily. The world is fairly open (some linear parts but once they are done there are usually a few choices in which direction to take. And as they've all been out for a while you can usually find a set of 1-5 on sale somewhere as a bundle for a very reasonable price so you'll more than get your money's worth there (nor will you feel your time is wasted once all is said & done if you do enjoy Jeff's style of game making (solid story, reasonably coherent gameplay). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Meri20098 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I got really frustrated with the Geneforge series click to walk here thing rather than the option of using the arrow keys. I played geneforge 2 but screwed up at the end of geneforge 3 by going on a killing spree before completing the main quests. I don't know how to get back to the shaper council. I highly regret it. I'm a perfectionist and it took so long for me to get to the end, I just feel kind of disillusioned and frustrated with it. I think I might start avernum over and go slowly and carefully. I hope in avernum 3 they could let you choose off the bat to side with rentar-Ihrno and help release the plagues rather than just ending them. Would make for an interesting change. I think that's why I love avernum more because the movement style is better and not as irritating plus (to me at least) there's so much more to do in order to advance rather than have the whole world open like in Geneforge. More open ended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila skcolb Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'm in a similar situation (played Exile III as a kid and now these two new remakes). I'm just happy it will be a couple years before there's another big timesink like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Rya.Reisender Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I also didn't really like Avadon. The worst part about it is that you only have 3 characters, though. It makes combat really boring. 4 is the minimum I can still live with. Would prefer 6. Couldn't really get into GeneForge, summoning was never really my thing. I enjoyed Nethergate a lot, but Avernum Remakes are still my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 you could always do an geneforge agent game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Chessrook44 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Otherwise, I guess I should give Geneforge a chance to impress me, then. I DO enjoy a good Sci-Fi RPG, which is a surprisingly rare breed... but on the other hand, I've heard some rumors about the later Geneforge-games being quite dark, bleak and depressing, and I generally have an aversion against overly 'grimdark' games. I think the key in games like Exile/Avernum is that, yeah, things be effed-up at the start, but you - the player - have a chance to make them better. Makes it feel like a real accomplishment, y'know? Some games are so eager to seem 'dark' that they basically cut out the player's ability to create anything resembling a 'happy ending', 'cuz that would mess with the atmosphere... and making the whole thing seem pointless as a side-effect. Why bother when you won't make anything better anyway? Of course, I don't know if Geneforge tends that far in that direction... While I'm not sure if I'd call it "Dark" exactly, I'd more call it a "Grey Vs. Grey" kind of thing. The war that shows up in the Geneforge games isn't a Good Vs Evil kind of war. I consider it to be more Order Vs. Chaos. Both sides have their positives and their negatives, and you just have to choose which you think is best, especially in the later games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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