Old isn't exactly Good

[Death Knight]

I was replaying some old games over the past weeks to see if I can get into them after these years. Baldurs Gate 1 was my target and even though I soloed the game years back, it was tough. Now after playing it again I can't say that I even managed to get into it.

 

The horribly slow movement, the almost too ridiculously confusing real time combat and abhorrent toughness. I guess there's a lesson here, old games aren't exactly better than new games. In fact, I would say that Ive struggled ten times over on an old game rather than a new one and enjoyed the experience more.

 

There's got to be other old games I haven't filled in but all the infinity engine games are on there, especially ice wind dale 1 and 2 and baldurs gate 1. Baldurs Gate 2 was more linear and wasn't as tough as the 1st, but had a better story and was playable.

 

Has anyone had any trouble with older games?

[Randomizer]

I went back to play Might and Magic 2 and still haven't gotten past the second town. Part of it was a lack of enthusiasm to take notes and map things in the detail needed to keep track of clues. Then there is the grinding to get a few more levels to keep up with the encounter levels.

 

I might final finish Geneforge 3 if I can just move to the next island.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

I am trying to get into Nethergate and Blades ,but it's a struggle really, I can't even click on things!!!

[Death Knight]

Here's what I got so far for games that are unplayable-

 

Fallout 1, 2-terrible

 

Inquisitor-The name of the game speaks for itself

 

Betrayal at Krondor/All krondor games-OLD!!!!

 

Divine Divinity

 

Arx Fatalis-Buggy

 

Neverwinter Nights-Wont play game on 4 pcs Ive owned, crashes constantly

 

I think that a lot of games have great concepts but what happens is they just don't know how to make the game balanced and or workable. Neverwinter Nights took the cake. I still have the receipt from best buy, the employee told me it would work on the computer (which I bought from them).

[Lilith]

I went back to play Might and Magic 2 and still haven't gotten past the second town. Part of it was a lack of enthusiasm to take notes and map things in the detail needed to keep track of clues. Then there is the grinding to get a few more levels to keep up with the encounter levels.

 

c'mon, you're an engineer or something, you're supposed to have good spatial reasoning. if you play it enough you'll eventually just memorise where most of the important stuff is. also there's an automap: get a character the Cartographer skill (available in Middlegate) asap to enable it

 

level grinding is actually a super inefficient way to gain power in M&M2 beyond the very start of the game: stats, equipment and spells are all much more important. once your party is level 5 or so i'd recommend heading for the Nomadic Rift Cavern near Sandsobar and running through it a few times to get everyone's Speed up to 50, that makes the game a lot easier for several reasons. as far as equipment goes, you can buy +5 gear (good enough to last you a while) from any blacksmith's Today's Specials on day 29, 59, 89, 119, 149 or 179 of any year. it's not cheap but gold isn't too hard to get

 

if encounters are a problem for you in an area you can set your party disposition to Inconspicious, which causes all encounters to be generated at the minimum difficulty for the area you're in

[keira]

I am trying to get into Nethergate and Blades ,but it's a struggle really, I can't even click on things!!!

yes you can.

well at least in boe

 

also beyond old games that have to do 640x480x256 and give me a blazing headache for some reason, i am fine with old games. Sometimes the UI is a little clunky, but hell, I prefer bash as an interface, so yeah

Edited December 21, 2012 by صيلي
boe -p party.sav --member 1 --mage-spell 19 -x 10 -y 20

[Death Knight]

I am trying to get into Nethergate and Blades ,but it's a struggle really, I can't even click on things!!!

 

I know what you mean. Thats like me and the Geneforge series. The original Avernum games would get boring because moving around was more grinding. The good thing is that we have Avernum-Eftp.

[keira]

What is this about slow SW games. It takes a freaking decade to move around in Jeff's isometric games. Meanwhile in E3 I'm cruising along outdoors faster than you can blink

Edited December 21, 2012 by صيلي
boe -p party.sav --end-combat

[BMA]

I am trying to get into Nethergate and Blades ,but it's a struggle really, I can't even click on things!!!

I know what you mean. Thats like me and the Geneforge series. The original Avernum games would get boring because moving around was more grinding. The good thing is that we have Avernum-Eftp.

 

I'm too much a fan of the old BoA system that I never use the mouse even on Aeftp; I prefer bumping into things.

 

You can use the mouse though, just not directly; you have to press the respective keyboard letter first.

[Lilith]

the only Old RPG Series that i absolutely cannot get into is wizardry, it seems like there is just way too much random-ass stuff that can ruin your game, like getting the wrong stat gains on levelup

[Mosquito---Slayer]

yes you can.

well at least in boe

Yeah, basically I meant BoA and N:R, Exile's engine I don't even bother with, just the thought of playing on that sends a chill down my spine and makes me want to cry, that always results in me playing the newer SW games to console myself.

[Enraged Slith]

I would have enjoyed Fallout more if the inventory management wasn't such a pain and I hadn't felt the compulsive need to pick up and sell every single piece of garbage I came across.

[Lauren CW]

Here's what I got so far for games that are unplayable-

 

Fallout 1, 2-terrible

We will never, ever be friends.

 

 

I would have enjoyed Fallout more if the inventory management wasn't such a pain and I hadn't felt the compulsive need to pick up and sell every single piece of garbage I came across.

 

In fallout 1, the trick is you raise your barter to the point where your stuff is worth more than theirs. Get a bunch of SMGs or something, and trade them half of them. Proceed to take anything you actually want from shop keepers.

In fallout 2, killing bands of raiders is extremely lucrative. Also there are shopkeepers in San Fran that have all the high end stuff on tables that you can steal from. I stash neat items in the car, and only carry what I actually use because of how easy it is to get a hold of anything you need.

[Alorael at Large]

Fallout 1 and 2 suffer from extreme engine clunkiness. They're fantastic games, both in story and in solid mechanics, but the engine is outdated.

 

—Alorael, who didn't love the engine even when it was new. Its turns are a little too intrusive.

[Callie]

I had a character in Fallout 1 that could swing a knife ten times in one round, and fire a plasma rifle five times per round (and there's a perk which can grat you even more action points). I had way too much fun abusing engine glitches.

[Lilith]

I had a character in Fallout 1 that could swing a knife ten times in one round, and fire a plasma rifle five times per round (and there's a perk which can grat you even more action points). I had way too much fun abusing engine glitches.

 

that build is powerful and all but it takes a long time to come together because fast shot is actually pretty disastrous until you get sniper/slayer. hitting even twice as often isn't enough to make up for missing out on crits from targeted shots

[Juan Carlo]

I just played through Fallout 1 and 2 for the first time ever like a year ago, and while the interface took some getting used to in the first half hour or so of playing, after that I was so sucked into the game I didn't notice it (and it's definitely no more or less clunky than your average Spiderweb interface, so if someone can't abide "Fallout" I'm not sure how they could stand like 75% of Spiderweb's output).

 

Plus, not sure what version of "Divine divinity" people are talking about, but the versions they sell on steam and GOG at the moment have slightly updated interfaces and increased resolutions and stuff like that, so they are worth seeking out over older boxed copies of the game. Larian still patches those games occasionally even ten years after their release, which is kind of nice and a rare thing for studios to do.

 

The only older game I played whose interface really tried my patience was Gothic 1. I stuck it out until the end, but someone really, really, needs to mod standard mouse controls into that game as Gothic 2 kind of set up what would become the standard (ever since then) for ARPG controls, but Gothic 1 controls like its "Doom" or something.

 

In fact, I'd say that in general action games tend to age much worse than turn-based RPGs. I can play a turn-based RPG from the early 1990s or even the 80s and be fine, no matter how obtuse its interface, but I don't have much patience for any action games from the "pre-mouse" era (e.g. anything before "Quake 1" appeared and standardized the common "mouse + WASD" controls that most action games use to this day).

[Death Knight]

The main reason I cant stand Fallout is because melee doesnt work and the game is more focused on guns. While the game has a decent premise, guns cross the line for me as I much prefer fantasy with bows and crossbows. Guns dont take skill to use, look at the real world and you will see. You dont need skill to use a firearm, only thing that factors in is who shoots first and at what range. With fantasy there are many more factors to put in and bows actually take skill to use.

[Tyranicus]

Anyone who thinks guns do not take skill to use has never tried to hit a target with a gun.

[Trenton.]

I came to this thread, expecting to see messages about death, the charming looks of the young, and getting off peoples lawns.

 

 

I also expected lots of cane waving and beating.

 

 

Thanks for getting my hopes up.

[keira]

Anyone who thinks guns do not take skill to use has never tried to hit a target with a gun.

This. As someone who spent several years shooting competitively, this. And I still wasn't that good.

 

Also hunting. Took about 20 shots to get my first deer, and it was only from a couple hundred yards

Thanks for getting my hopes up.

you youngn's have it easy. back in my day we had to walk ten miles, uphill both ways through ten feet of ubb classic, just to get there and discover it was a spambot thread.

Edited December 21, 2012 by صيلي
when i got my first elk it was still quite alive when i got to it and i had to go all executioner-style on it. with a .270. awkward potato.

[Death Knight]

Anyone who thinks guns do not take skill to use has never tried to hit a target with a gun.

 

I dont believe it to be as hard as you say. I was in Rotc and shot a rifle and never had any problems. Then later in senior year, we had archery training, and I couldnt get anywhere.

[Harehunter]

I qualified while in the army, but no great shakes. Those 300m targets were a bear.

[Goldengirl]

The main reason I cant stand Fallout is because melee doesnt work and the game is more focused on guns. While the game has a decent premise, guns cross the line for me as I much prefer fantasy with bows and crossbows. Guns dont take skill to use, look at the real world and you will see. You dont need skill to use a firearm, only thing that factors in is who shoots first and at what range. With fantasy there are many more factors to put in and bows actually take skill to use.

 

Never bring a knife to a gun fight, you'll lose. Melee weapons just aren't as fatal as guns are.

 

And I'd arguably say that guns and crossbows require the exact same amount of skill. You load in a bolt or bullet, aim, and press a trigger - the same basic mechanics are all still there. The same could even really be said of a bow. Notch in an arrow, pull back, aim, release. It just requires more muscle power, whereas the others have the machine do the work for you, more and more.

[Lilith]

The main reason I cant stand Fallout is because melee doesnt work and the game is more focused on guns. While the game has a decent premise, guns cross the line for me as I much prefer fantasy with bows and crossbows. Guns dont take skill to use, look at the real world and you will see. You dont need skill to use a firearm, only thing that factors in is who shoots first and at what range. With fantasy there are many more factors to put in and bows actually take skill to use.

 

melee/unarmed works totally fine in fallout 1 and 2, try a HtH Evade abuse build sometime

 

also clicking a mouse and putting points in Small Guns takes exactly as much skill on your part as clicking a mouse and putting points into Unarmed so it's not like there's actually that much skill involved either way

[Sudanna]

. . . Alleging that guns require no skill to use effectively is ridiculous.

 

And melee is entirely viable in all of the Fallout games.

[The Mystic]

I used to play a game called Crusade in Space. The controls were confusing to the novice player; the popup menus were cumbersome and awkward; and I swear I lost about a year of my life to lag time. By comparison, Jeff's game engines are a dream come true.

I also expected lots of cane waving and beating.

I don't have a cane, sorry. Will you settle for my homemade slide rule?

[Trenton.]

I won't settle for slide anything unless It's a slide whistle...

 

 

Or a water slide, but that goes without saying.

[Lauren CW]

that build is powerful and all but it takes a long time to come together because fast shot is actually pretty disastrous until you get sniper/slayer. hitting even twice as often isn't enough to make up for missing out on crits from targeted shots

Mutate into fast shot after you get sniper/slayer.

The main reason I cant stand Fallout is because melee doesnt work and the game is more focused on guns. While the game has a decent premise, guns cross the line for me as I much prefer fantasy with bows and crossbows. Guns dont take skill to use, look at the real world and you will see. You dont need skill to use a firearm, only thing that factors in is who shoots first and at what range. With fantasy there are many more factors to put in and bows actually take skill to use.

As other people have said, you're doing it wrong. The only problem I have with melee is waiting for their bodies to slide to a stop.

[Lilith]

Mutate into fast shot after you get sniper/slayer.

 

which means you have to wait until level 21, hence "a long time to come together"

[Lauren CW]

which means you have to wait until level 21, hence "a long time to come together"

It's still not significantly different from a regular gun-using build, but not at all detrimental because you don't have to deal with the negative penalties of fast shot all game.

[keira]

why dont you just play the game instead of minmaxxing the crap out of it

[Lilith]

why dont you just play the game instead of minmaxxing the crap out of it

 

fallout's combat isn't all that tactically deep so i don't really begrudge anyone wanting to make it as easy as possible to power through encounters and minimise their chance of being exploded by an ill-timed crit