Thoughts on game music (and Spidweb)

[theta-soul]

Quick background: I haven't been a Spiderweb fan, per se, until a few months ago when I discovered the Geneforge saga, the second Avernum trilogy, and the newer games now available on Steam. I recall playing Exile way back on Win 3.1, but I was pretty young then, and forgot about it until my rediscovery.

 

Anyway, I've been working my way through the Geneforge games and Avernum 4 in all their glory, with much revelry for the past few months. All the ones I've tried so far have been brilliant for their writing, unique settings, fascinating NPCs, and intoxicating combat and exploration. (I skipped Avernum 1-3 and everything prior because they're too dated at this point for me to be able to enjoy thoroughly - I'll just wait for the remakes).

 

The problem is that I enjoy them in silence, for the most part. Besides a few generic sound effects, there is nothing auditory to enjoy. This makes me pretty sad. The one clip of music in each game is generally the title theme, which is probably a freely licensed midi, but that's fine - they're catchy and to some extent set the mood.

 

But why not more? It's been proven that music has a strong tie to memory - and anyone that has played a game with a strong musical score can attest to that. Classic JRPGs and to a lesser extent the Infinity engine and Bioware games generally have great scores, and you'll find yourself waking up any given morning with a particular theme stuck in your head. A game with memorable music is certainly a memorable game.

 

I understand the monetary difficulties of indie studios, and the difficulty of finding a decent composer for any video game, but why has it been nearly 20 years and Jeff V and his associates haven't tried to release a full soundtrack for any Spiderweb games?

 

Is the fanbase anti-BGM? Is Jeff himself anti-BGM? Is it really that expensive or difficult to get music? Do you as the players, or Jeff as the developer really believe it will break the 'feel' of the games?

 

I find, personally, that none of my normal music selections fit too well with these games (I listen to hard, fast music in general with some indie bands here and there). I, naturally, am a strong advocate of game music, and I believe the absolute worst part of the CRPG genre as a whole is its notable lack of music. Certain games, such as Bethsoft games, have a tendency to have orchestral swells every now and again, but they are not nearly enough to satisfy a game music fan.

 

I'm just curious as to what this community thinks. Do you play your games on mute? Do you wish there were more music in Spidweb games? What do you listen to while playing? Let me know.

 

(I did do a forum search but there were no topics within the past six months regarding 'music'.)

[keira]

Originally Posted By: tekkamansoul

I understand the monetary difficulties of indie studios, and the difficulty of finding a decent composer for any video game, but why has it been nearly 20 years and Jeff V and his associates haven't tried to release a full soundtrack for any Spiderweb games?

Jeff didn't really "hit it big" until quite recently, if you even want to call it that. He's had to deal with having the sales from one game carry them through until the next release. That doesn't leave much room for "let's experiment with investing in a soundtrack and possibly go into the poorhouse".

Not to mention, at the length these games are, anything is going to get annoying and repetitive, so what's the point.

[Alorael at Large]

Jeff has said he doesn't like music in games, so that may be a part. He's also said that he strives to keep download sizes down, although this becomes less and less an issue as fewer and fewer of his customers rely on slow connections. Now, I think more than anything else it's inertia that keeps the background sounds atmospheric. There's enough decent free or nearly free music available for licensing that he could cobble together soundtracks.

 

—Alorael, who likes games that use music very well, and otherwise doesn't really care. Mass Effect uses its score as a blunt emotional weapon, and it works. Baldur's Gate can be enjoyed thoroughly with no music at all. Many games need their music turned off because it quickly becomes repetitive and irritating.

[Cairo Jim]

I do miss the original E1 and 2 with the background music. It was even possible to change the music file. Now, I just have my own music to listen to. Most of the time I don't listen to it while playing though.

[Erebus the Black]

Personally I think the current BGSFX are great, when you travel along a cave you don't expect to hear much music, and the occasional SFX of stalagmites dripping and of bats screeching is very fitting. However I do feel that some situational music is missing such as next to big boss encounters or new chapters reached; like entering the great cave in A2,4 or the azure cave inA5, or flight music during the chase through the howling depths in A5, or foreboding music while traveling in Bel Shamaroths pit to a climax music while fighting it.

So bottom line is: music all the time or music that jumps you all of a sudden for no reason like in morrowwind is bad or at least not fitting, situational music according to the occasion is good.

So I haven't added to the poll, if you think my answer fits one of the options tell me which.

[RaustBlackDragon]

I'm actually thinking of making an unofficial fan soundtrack to Avadon and AEftP when I complete those games. I'm an amateur composer, and I think it might be fun.

 

Of course, I have a feeling that, having played without any music, many people might actually prefer the lack of music in many situations, but hey, I'm gonna give it a shot anyway. It's not like I'll actually be able to make the songs play in-game or anything, but again, I'm planning on doing this for fun

[theta-soul]

Originally Posted By: Future Wonderbolt

Jeff didn't really "hit it big" until quite recently, if you even want to call it that. He's had to deal with having the sales from one game carry them through until the next release. That doesn't leave much room for "let's experiment with investing in a soundtrack and possibly go into the poorhouse".

Not to mention, at the length these games are, anything is going to get annoying and repetitive, so what's the point.

That doesn't really apply, since as far as I can tell the midi's he chooses for title themes are open license. Plus, if a game didn't make a profit, he wouldn't do it. A lot of complaints from reviews around the 'net involve lack of music - a good score would mean higher reviews which would mean higher sales.

And there are many many many games that I have spent just as long and longer than Spiderweb games on that have full scores, and they never got repetitive. The radio, that gets repetitive. A good VG score is varied and if anything makes you want to listen to it more. What sort of games are you playing that have music so bad you get sick of it?

Originally Posted By: Childe

Jeff has said he doesn't like music in games, so that may be a part. He's also said that he strives to keep download sizes down, although this becomes less and less an issue as fewer and fewer of his customers rely on slow connections.

Midis also are tiny, and a full MP3 score isn't more than 50mb - which can be scaled back for minor quality decrease.

If Jeff doesn't like music in games, then that pretty much explains the why, though I'd like to know the reasoning.

Originally Posted By: Dead man Walking

So bottom line is: music all the time or music that jumps you all of a sudden for no reason like in morrowwind is bad or at least not fitting, situational music according to the occasion is good.
So I haven't added to the poll, if you think my answer fits one of the options tell me which.

I agree with what you're saying I don't think its necessary to replace ambiance with a full melody when ambiance fits the mood better - but considering the epic level of the plot and certain encounters in Jeff's games, the silence, if anything, deadens the experience. (For the poll, I would answer what you think would work best for Spiderweb games, instead of games in general)

Originally Posted By: RaustBlackDragon

I'm actually thinking of making an unofficial fan soundtrack to Avadon and AEftP when I complete those games. I'm an amateur composer, and I think it might be fun.

Do it!! I'd be thrilled to hear it.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: tekkamansoul

If Jeff doesn't like music in games, then that pretty much explains the why, though I'd like to know the reasoning.

He's blogged about it a bit before. Basically he finds music in games annoying and distracting and when he plays a game with music in it, he pretty much always mutes it after a few minutes if there's an option to do so.

[Trenton.]

I think we should get My little pony music for the games

 

Winter wrap up for Rawals lands in Geneforge 5...

 

This day Aria for the Final fights, or really powerful enemies...

 

Becoming popular for random walking in Exile :3

 

Love is in bloom for the credits

 

Giggle at the ghostie for crypts

 

You get the drill.

[Callie]

The only good game music I can think of is unoriginal. Civ IV and Civ V have nice soundtracks, but that's because their soundtracks consist of Bach and whatnot. (Civ IV actually has a real nice opening theme)

[RaustBlackDragon]

I LOVE video game music. The first song that really struck me was this one:

 

 

I heard this when I was between 5 and 7, not quite sure, and ever since then I fell in love with video game music. If you really can't think of any songs you like that were originally made for video games, I honestly have difficulty believing that, though I guess it's just a difference of opinion. It seems that you have very specific tastes, which would explain why only Civ 4 and 5's classical soundtracks have appealed to you.

[Enraged Slith]

I love video game music to the point where I actually have favorite composers.

 

I'll spare you my vast collection of assorted youtube links, but I don't want to know the person who would turn up their nose at stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DEpfH2rlLE&fmt=18

 

I completely understand Jeff's decision, though.

[RaustBlackDragon]

I understand his decision too. There is a sort of charm to having ambiance instead of music

[nikki.]

The greatest piece of video game music is

, closely followed by

and finally

.

 

As for music that isn't over a decade old, I'm currently playing Arkham City, and the

is one of the better ones I've heard in a while; possibly because it reminds me of Zimmer's score for the Dark Knight trilogy, and maybe because it's the goddamn Batman.

 

Edit: On topic, a good soundtrack can really enhance a game for me, but I don't think I'd ever be turned off by an annoying one - I'd just mute it and listen to my washing machine instead.

[Aran]

I like music in games if it's done right (that is, well-composed, high quality and augmenting the game's atmosphere). The best soundtracks are those that I also like listening to outside the game.

 

My favorites are Cyan's Myst series (

,

(who also worked on Mass Effect) and

for the

), Impressions' City Building Series (Robert Euvino, Keith Zizza, Henry Beckett) and Blue Byte's Settlers series (Haiko Ruttmann). A lot of Michael Shapiro's stuff for Empire Earth II also is great. (And I'd really wish to hear my all-time favorite film soundtrack composer Hans Zimmer do work for a video game, but he's in a whole different league.)

 

The common theme is that I like orchestral stuff. 8-bit synthesized tracks somewhat less, and without playing console games I also don't have nostalgic attachment to them. Though I like humming the Tetris theme when I need to annoy someone.

[Cairo Jim]

One of my favourites was, I can't remember the name of the game, but it played mostly Chopin's Valses. It was very well done, and it changed nicely between the songs when you went into different areas.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Slartey Quinn

The greatest piece of video game music is

this music is recognisable enough in Japan that a remixed version with lyrics put to it became A Thing on the internet

[Lauren CW]

Jeremy Soule. Surprised nobody has mentioned him yet.

Also, Inon Zur.

[Erebus the Black]

My favourites are :

Ultima 4,

OMF 2097 the Olympic Gold

And of course Golden Axe, although I prefer the old PC version which I cannot find.

[Painted Lady]

It seems to me the question of game music is part and parcel of the game designer's approach to his craft. If you look at Basilisk Games, the two Eschalon books have wonderful music. Thomas has redrawn the tiles for each game. He is a perfectionist, and the down side is that in four years he has produced two games with no announcement yet on the third one.

 

Jeff has said that he wants game pieces with interchangeable pieces. He can click them together relatively quickly and get on with telling his story. Taking the time to integrate music (not to mention the cost of having it written) would probably slow down game development. I do appreciate having a new game show up every year.......

[theta-soul]

Ahh, Okkusenman... Such wonderful nostalgia and manly tears. It helps I was into Ultraman as a kid as well as Megaman, so it's the perfect remix for me.

 

Thanks to everyone for all the replies - some of you guys have excellent taste in VG tunes. It saddens me greatly that there will probably never be a Spidweb game with a score, but... Ah, well. There is still a plethora of music out there.

[Necris Omega]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: Slartey Quinn

The greatest piece of video game music is

this music is recognisable enough in Japan that a remixed version with lyrics put to it became A Thing on the internet

Among VG Remixes, that track is just about the most heavily mixed thing ever minus maybe Ice Cap zone from Sonic 3. This is a tune so overly mixed OCR did an entire April Fool's thing on it.

[Thralni]

I love video game music. I actually listen to video game music all the time. Ever since completing the Mass Effect trilogy I've been almost constantly listening to the soundtracks of those games. What I always found so beautiful in that music is that I can picture the scenes; can see what's happening, although I love the most dramatic moments the most. I'm afraid that SW games are simply not the games that can make use of that very well, for the music in other games often accompany dramatic moments in cutscenes. While SW games do have cutscenes, they are not the dramatic cutscenes we have seen in Mass Effect. For that you really need a different kind of engine and approach.

 

Other gamemusic I love is the soundtrack of Deus Ex Human Revolution, the Assassin's Creed series and Halo series, to name a few, but there are lots more I listen to. I used to listen to the music of Avernum, geneforge and Exile too. It's actually via Exile 1 that I got to know the "small fuga" of Bach BWV578. I love that piece to this day.

[Dikiyoba]

Hey, Thralni, it's been a long time. Planning to stick around for a while, or just dropping by?

 

Dikiyoba.

[nikki.]

Where have you been, Diki?

[A less presumptuous name.]

I just started watching PA's Extra Credits, and one of their early episodes is on video game music. I just thought I'd throw this out to the SW community for discussion.

[Thralni]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Hey, Thralni, it's been a long time. Planning to stick around for a while, or just dropping by?

Dikiyoba.

Hi Diki, nice to see you around. I plan to stick around and finish HIM3 once and for all, even if it will be a bit of an on-and-off kind of thing.