online, not MMO[G5]

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

What if geneforge going online was much simpler.

 

-you can act as a server while playing

-people can join your game

-save files are used to select your character (which is why you gotta level up in the single player game)

 

now either

-multiplayer maps and stuff

 

or

-multiplayer playthrough of the normal game where players can join the game you're playing at the point you are playing it.

 

 

sounds much better and simpler to pull of then an MMO, no?

[BMA]

Whats the difference between online & MMORPG?

 

Is it like, instead of having all players connect to a centralized server on the Spiderweb site, each player can choose to host/join a game ?

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

yes, and other players can join it, and it's just normal geneforge with 2 or more players (and maybe new maps, but 2+ player mode is all I need)

[BMA]

A 2-player game shouldn't make too much of a difference to the Geneforge engine.It would just have to share the coordinates of the players and creations between the two games.

 

Btw, there have been instances where a game which was meant to be played as single-player was modified by fans and transformed into a multiplayer game.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

you think we can do that?

[adc.]

It is very simple (not the negative simple, cheap word) but it might be possible. There is more chance of making this game if you have the right minds/tools.

[adc.]

On what you just said, I would be glad to join in...

[BMA]

I would love to do it too. Why dont we all get together and do something to keep the game alive ?

 

You've got to have some technical knowledge of how the game works, then you must know how to inject your custom code into the game files (I know neither, but maybe somebody does).The game was apparently written in C/C++/Java, judging by the script files.

 

I once took a peek at the BoE source code, and it made me feel dizzy. Wonder what Geneforge's will be like.

 

[Slawbug]

This is far more complex than you're making it out to be, since (among other reasons) you don't actually have access to game's source code.

 

Also, it's technically illegal, since the game's license does not allow for this kind of modification.

 

Finally, even if you had the technical and legal ability to make all these changes, the effort required is not proportional to the reward. If you can do all that, just make a new game!

[BMA]

Point well taken.

 

But its not about creating anything new, the idea is to augment Geneforge's entertainment value and provide fans a completely new gaming experience. Many of us are experienced Geneforge players, we know the games top to bottom, and we are tired. I mean, we've done 100%, there's nothing else and the series is over.But I can't leave the game; I'm still hooked on to it.Which is why I'm doing things like (I'm such a rebel) making my fyoras spit acid, and vlish cast charm's.

 

And you're right about it being illegal. I seriously doubt whether Spiderweb will show the same delightfully lenient (even supportive) attitude it has shown towards script-edits and trainers.

[adc.]

Are you a computer programmer?

[Eamon]

If you wish to continue the Geneforge concept you could create a Blades of Avernum scenario about a group of non shapers, like the Shanoi, meeting some shapers, either finding an island, or having to track down some shapers in their lands. Just an idea.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

that would fail.

So many reasons that would fail.

 

anyway, I don't see how it is illegal if we would not be handing the game out for free, but editing an unregistered copy, so only people who have bought the game could play the "expansion" using their serials.

[Death Knight]

I dont see how it is illegal either. So long as you A) dont sell it, and dont pass it off as your own. If anything jeff should look at it as the most important flattery you can get. Not every game gets so wellliked that fans on the series try and prolong the end.

 

If you do decide to do it, i will support it and advertise it as much as i can.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

So will eye

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

Also, it's technically illegal, since the game's license does not allow for this kind of modification.

I think that should say enough. Plus you'd have to crack the source code, which is not exactly something developers allow.

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: MMXPERT

anyway, I don't see how it is illegal if we would not be handing the game out for free...

Originally Posted By: Death Knight

I dont see how it is illegal either. So long as you A) dont sell it, and dont pass it off as your own.

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

Also, it's technically illegal, since the game's license does not allow for this kind of modification.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

Also, it's technically illegal, since the game's license does not allow for this kind of modification.

Under what conditions terms like that in a software license are legally enforceable is an open question. I don't think this is the right forum to discuss it in, though.

[Alorael at Large]

If someone managed to find a way to make a multiplayer Geneforge, I don't think Jeff would crack down on it. He wouldn't want to alienate fans unnecessarily, and it would be a nice new piece of marketing. What you can't expect is for him to make any source code available, and without source code this kind of endeavor becomes prohibitively difficult.

 

—Alorael, who doubts it could be easily done even with the code, since it would require some fundamental rewriting of basic function. You'd be writing a new game taking mechanics and graphics.

[Nescioquis]

Recreating the entire game engine from scratch without source code would be prohibitively difficult, but that's not necessary. It would be much easier to create a mod that would hook into/patch the compiled game code to allow a synchronized game world.

 

Even hooking a few script execution functions might be sufficient to handle most of the game synchronization problems.

[BMA]

I've made a small game (well, experiment, rather) using the Geneforge graphics.Do try it out, irrespective of your views on the licensing part - it does not modify your game in any way as it is an independent program.

 

This was just to check whether the idea is workable.Its chippy and patchy, but if everyone gets together and works on the graphics, we can produce a masterpiece (No programming required). What I did realize was that customizing the game is very, very difficult. What we can do is to create a new multiplayer fan-game using the Geneforge graphics.

 

--------------------------

Controls

Arrow left : Move left

Arrow right : Move right

--------------------------

(If Spidweb says "Remove", this post will be removed, forgotten about & I'll concentrate on finding a way into Oghrym'Tor.)

 

(Windows : Size about 1.3 Mb)

Download Experiment

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

for the posters who said that this is illegal:

 

Are you sure you're not just being a troll, automatically dismissing a good idea because it requires work/effort?

Besides I'm pretty sure that it's legal as long as we don't make a registered version online, but an unsigned copy.

even better if the final result will be a patch that works on both unregistered and registered copies.

 

 

Think of a person trying Geneforge 5 and thinking:

 

HOLY S*** this is online!

then making it to the area restrictions and wanting to purchase the game even more.

 

Honestly, making this would only do good in my opinion.

[Slawbug]

MMXPERT:

No, you are not being trolled. And you have already been referred to the game's license. Continuing to assert "I think it's legal!" does not mean anything when other people have given specific reasons why it is not. If you really think we're wrong, you are welcome to look at the license yourself and then quote whichever parts prove you correct.

 

The fact of the matter is that almost any game released commercially is going to have a license that prohibits distributing modified copies of the game, including in patch form.

 

Whether or not Spiderweb would mind is another question, as BMA and Alorael point out. I'm not really sure what SW's reaction would be as it's a complicated issue.

[Randomizer]

I can think of a reason that Jeff might object and that's any modified code would have to be vetted to show the code hasn't been used in any other copyrighted software. Jeff mentioned in his blog that he's had to remove code from previous games that had been provided to him after he received cease and desists orders when donated code wasn't public domain.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

Is there a way to ask Jeff about this?

[Randomizer]

You can email him since he doesn't read the boards much outside of Tech Support and around game releases.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

what is his email?

[Randomizer]

There's a link here to email Spiderweb.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

thank you, I shall send an email to him and ask him for permission for this project.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

these 3 rules should prevent most legal harm from being done:

 

-If it's an edited version, WE EDIT THE UNREGISTERED VERSION

-if it's a patch, IT WILL BE FOR THE UNREGISTERED VERSION

-If it's a fangame, WE ADD SERIAL VERIFICATION TO MATCH GENEFORGE 5

 

Now we just gotta wait for an answer from Spiderweb.

[Alorael at Large]

There's still the major stumbling block: you can't edit any version, because you don't have the source code. Jeff almost certainly won't give it out.

 

Also, an edited version or a patch are the same thing, except the latter is automated patching of the base version for anyone who gets the patch. Since the registered and unregistered "versions" are the same program, just with a check for registration, that limitation is unnecessary. Not that this is especially useful, but I thought I'd point it out.

 

—Alorael, who is quite sure that Jeff would forcefully reject any remaking of his game, even if it requires registration through him. That's a little too far for him to ignore copyright protection if he wants his intellectual property to remain his.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Vespers at Dawn

—Alorael, who is quite sure that Jeff would forcefully reject any remaking of his game, even if it requires registration through him. That's a little too far for him to ignore copyright protection if he wants his intellectual property to remain his.

Yeah, he was really not happy at all when he found out that Aceron had been working on a modified version of BoE way back when, before BoE's source code was made public.

[Nescioquis]

Originally Posted By: Vespers at Dawn

There's still the major stumbling block: you can't edit any version, because you don't have the source code. Jeff almost certainly won't give it out.

Creating an edited version would not require the source code. Disassembling and reverse engineering compiled machine code is entirely within the realm of possibility, and in fact has been done on numerous occasions to add new features to games without the source code.

[BMA]

Originally Posted By: Jedi Nescioquis

Disassembling and reverse engineering compiled machine code...

Thats a big realm of modding & programming that I want to learn about.Can you do all that? (I know the license forbids it, but I'm just asking - educational purposes.)

If you haven't already emailed him, I would like to add that the forums need more smileys.Especially the thinking smiley & the single-eyebrow-raising-smiley(indicating scepticism).
Anyway, it should be interesting to see how he responds.And btw, does anyone know how many people over here are on a Windows and how many on a Mac. Because if at all there's a fan-rewrite, the modifications we create for one won't work on the other.

[Randomizer]

It's about 50/50 between Windows and Mac. It vary from year to year and now with a Mac App Store and iPad versions it's shifting towards Mac.

[adc.]

You're really making me envious with your Computer programming skills . Btw, have MMXPERT receive an answer from spiderweb?

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

Yes, Spiderweb doubts the possibility of us succeeding, but I didn't get a yes/no answer, and they would risk too much by giving us the source code.

 

It seems that our only hope is to make a fangame that replicates Geneforge 5 and has online capabilities.

I have sent another email asking for permission to do just that.

[andy0023]

[Redacted due to CoC-violating content]

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

........

 

you must be new.

 

Get the **** outta here and take your keygen with you.

 

Please dont delete the whole thread because of this guy, just delete his post.

[andy0023]

[Redacted due to CoC-violating content]

[Death Knight]

no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make the madness stop!!!

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

first of all, it's all the same site, you could have just edited your first post.

 

Second of all, it contains a keygen

 

Which is illegal (at least here).

 

You're risking a ban, and your posts will definitely be deleted, if not this whole thread.

 

Think about what you have done.

[Dikiyoba]

*puts on mod hat*

 

Originally Posted By: Code of Conduct

1. Cause no harm.

These boards are paid for by Spiderweb Software, a small three-person company run primarily by a guy trying to feed his family. Using this board as a means to solicit, distribute, or discuss cracks or keys will result in immediate, permanent banning!

The rules are pretty clear. As such, Andy0023 is permabanned. Piracy is an ugly thing because Jeff relies on people actually buying his games to survive. But one bad apple doesn't have to ruin the whole bushel, so this thread will be left open.

 

*Dikiyoba takes off mod hat and happily resumes wearing Dikiyoba's regular hat*

[Acky]

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by a "fangame" MMX? I'm pretty sure a flash version for Geneforge would still be considered copyright. SW isn't a huge company when you can sneak these sorts of things by. They can't really afford to let their games go so easily.

 

 

 

 

Fyora's wear hats???

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Ackrovan

Fyora's wear hats???

Only when they decide to go for a run with all their raptor buddies.



But dikiyoras wear hats all the time. No one knows why, least of all Dikiyoba.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

I don't know how to start this yet, I want to get get an answer from Spiderweb first, then I can think about actually doing this, knowing that we're not doing something illegal.

[Trenton.]

Escape the doom wall! That game FTW

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

Spiderweb thinks that failure of this is imminent, and will not grant permission for distribution because they think so.

 

Perhaps they will change their minds of we actually make something that works.

[BMA]

Maybe we can create a small sample & email it only to Spiderweb. And then let them decide whether we should go ahead or not.

 

 

Missed all the action again. These kind of things seem to happen only when I'm not around. And I didn't get to read those original posts either :sulk:

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

sounds nice.

 

I would like to help, but I am no programmer.

 

What can I do?