Dayyyummm. Found it back!

[Blender]

So a couple months ago I tried to remember the name of a game I played a looong time ago and liked alot. The game was very big with a great story but was pretty ugly graphic wise.. never found it.

 

Now Im a big spender on Steam and I see this game Averdon appear on my screen with oldschool graphics and it kinda reminded me of that game I played many years ago... so I click on their website and what do I see?? GENEFORGE...omg thats IT! Thats the game!!!

 

So I bought Averdon in a heartbeat. Will probably go back to geneforge eventualy, however I cant remember which one I played. Maybe 1st or 2nd one...dont know. I just remember this game was brutal lol.

 

Ive played maybe 2 hours so far of Averdum and im totaly sold. Exactly my kind of game. Yes i love games with crazy graphics using the latest technologies but sometimes I have to get my dose of oldschool. Graphics are so much overrated. Sometimes I go back and play FF4, FF6, Chrono Trigger and I get some much fun thats crazy. I cant believe some people will never experience these jewels.

[nikki.]

Hey! Welcome to Spiderweb, again! Glad you found the game you had lost - Geneforge is pretty huge, and it does have a terrific story, as well as a world which changes around the choices you make. It's pretty fun.

 

Hope you stick around - and remember to leave any sanity you may be carrying at the door.

[Alorael at Large]

If you want to figure out exactly which you were playing, you can download all of them and see which one game's beginning looks familiar. And if you can't tell, it can't hurt to jump in at the beginning!

 

—Alorael, who does have to point out that the game is Avadon. That wouldn't be a problem, except Avernum is one of Spiderweb's other major series. Given the complaints of "Averforge!" when Avernum games were made with Geneforge graphics, he expects cries of "Averdon!" or possibly "Avanum!" when Avernum: Escape from the Pit is released with a more Avadon-like engine.

[Aoslare]

Originally Posted By: Karass

Sometimes I go back and play FF4, FF6, Chrono Trigger and I get some much fun thats crazy. I cant believe some people will never experience these jewels.

Amen! And welcome to the forums.

[Triumph]

I was so happy when they released a port of Chrono Trigger for the DS. I got to experience the amazingness that I'd long heard of but never had the chance to play before. And it was good.

 

Another game that boocoos dated but that I still regard as classic is Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening. Primitive old GameBoy game, black and white! And yet so well done!

[Earth]

ugly graphics hints 1 of 1st 2 or 3 Geneforges (depending on posters standard what's ugly and what's not, some could say Avadon has ugly graphics too).

[Aoslare]

Not really a primitive old GameBoy game -- pretty advanced for a GB cart, one of the latter-day carts, and one of the first to get upgrades for the Super GameBoy and GameBoy Color.

 

Still, Oracle of Seasons / Oracle of Ages were better games.

[Rowen]

I got Link's Awakening when I was 8 and didn't beat it until I was 11 on a road trip. This was before I knew that there where walk throughs on the internet.

[Blender]

I started zelda when the first one came out on the NES, I was around 12 yrs/old and its still one of my best.I played most of them till the N64. My very best would be A Link to the Past for the SNES... Also, anyone who didnt play Secret fo Mana on the NES shouldnt die before they play it. I just listen to the music and I feel like I have lived this game, like its a part of my past... very few games to this..maybe 5 games I have played have this mytic aura..everything is just perfect.

[Triumph]

I hope someday Secret of Mana is re-released on a system I have access to...it sounds interesting. Yeah, Slarty, the Oracle Zeldas were pretty amazing. I liked Ages a bit better than Seasons, though the puzzles sometimes made my brain hurt.

 

Rowen, it took me weeks, if I recall correctly, just to get to the SWORD on the beach in Link's Awakening. I'd never played a Zelda game before (hardly ever played a video game before), and I had no idea that I could use my shield to push the sea urchin out of my way. So I puzzled and puzzled and puzzled for weeks, and eventually on a visit to the bookstore (Borders, I think?) I found a hint book that explained it. The rest of the game went more smoothly, IIRC.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Triumph

I hope someday Secret of Mana is re-released on a system I have access to...it sounds interesting. Yeah, Slarty, the Oracle Zeldas were pretty amazing. I liked Ages a bit better than Seasons, though the puzzles sometimes made my brain hurt.

Secret of Mana is on the Virtual Console, so if you have a Wii...

[Rowen]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: Triumph

I hope someday Secret of Mana is re-released on a system I have access to...it sounds interesting. Yeah, Slarty, the Oracle Zeldas were pretty amazing. I liked Ages a bit better than Seasons, though the puzzles sometimes made my brain hurt.

Secret of Mana is on the Virtual Console, so if you have a Wii...

Spending student loans to download it now...

[Aoslare]

What, nobody here uses emulators?

 

Also, Seasons > Ages, at least for me. Possibly just because the graphical tone was less dull.

[The Ratt]

Was anyone else a huge fan of the first two Golden Sun games? I thought those were amazing.

[Nioca]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

What, nobody here uses emulators?

*cough*

Originally Posted By: Code of Conduct

Using this board as a means to solicit, distribute, or discuss cracks or keys will result in immediate, permanent banning! Do not post unauthorized copyrighted material, sexually explicit material of any kind, or about any illegal activities.

[Aoslare]

Emulators are not illegal. In fact, using emulators to run the Exile Trilogy is a pretty frequent topic discussion here. Distributing commercial software you don't own is illegal, but those are two different things.

 

Back to the topic, I had mixed feelings about the Golden Sun games. I liked them a lot at first, and then they started to feel very repetitive and formulaic.

[Nioca]

The emulators themselves are legal, true. But given the context of the last few posts, it sounded as if you were referring to using an emulator to play console games, which, barring things such as the Virtual Console, is at best a legal grey area.

 

Of course, that might not be what you meant at all, in which case I apologize. I just felt that needed to be pointed out.

[Alorael at Large]

Golden Sun is a wonderful throwback to a kind of console RPG that stopped being made years before Golden Sun, but it's not actually up to the standards of the golden age of 16 bit games.

 

—Alorael, who thinks owes his console purchases and his emulator acquisitions largely to Zelda. A Link to the Past drove to SNES, Ocarina of time justified an N64, and later both required emulation.

[Aoslare]

Nioca, I'm not sure why you're trying to make a big deal out of this, but emulating console games is not a "legal grey area." Obtaining and using hardware and software dumps is perfectly legal provided you purchased the games. If you didn't, it's not legal, just like playing an unlawfully obtained CD in a PlayStation is not legal. The issue is the copyrighted material, not the method of use. Some people do that with game CDs, but you'll notice we don't ban talking about playing console games on consoles here because of it -- that would be ridiculous.

 

In any event, I think the context was pretty clear here given the discussion was about playing games people played as kids.

 

*shakes head*

This is why having a Paladin in the party is always a problem.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

Nioca, I'm not sure why you're trying to make a big deal out of this, but emulating console games is not a "legal grey area." Obtaining and using hardware and software dumps is perfectly legal provided you purchased the games.

Regrettably, under the DMCA, this actually is a grey area in the US: the position of much of the software industry is that your licence to a piece of software only gives you the right to use it under the conditions specified by the copyright holder, not to use the internet to download a copy and run it in an emulator.

[Rowen]

I own and played through both of the first two Golden Sun games twice. My first play through of the first game was amazing. The second game started to drag out after getting to the other side of the ocean, but picked back up when I reached the North.

 

I have yet to go buy the latest of the Golden Sun games for the DS but imagine that I will so I have something to do in my classes this fall.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Rowen

I own and played through both of the first two Golden Sun games twice. My first play through of the first game was amazing. The second game started to drag out after getting to the other side of the ocean, but picked back up when I reached the North.

I have yet to go buy the latest of the Golden Sun games for the DS but imagine that I will so I have something to do in my classes this fall.

if you liked the previous two Golden Sun games then the DS one isn't really worse, but it isn't really much better either

just don't go into it expecting a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy because it has just as much of a non-ending as the previous two

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

*shakes head*
This is why having a Paladin in the party is always a problem.

In my first D&D (2E, of course) campaign, I played a Paladin. I was forced to pick a much more reasonable class as soon as that campaign was over.

I, like, Alorael, have had my emulator acquisitions be largely due to Zelda. Sure, I play a few NES, Mega Drive and PlayStation 1 games on an emulator now that I no longer have the consoles to play the games on (and since my PS2 broke, meaning I couldn't play my PS1 games from CD), but I largely use those emulators for games I've owned and wish to play again for nostalgia. In other words, I was always going to find a way to play those games again.

On the other hand, the series I have the most emulated games for is the Zelda series, and the only reason I acquired an (emulated) N64 is for Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. Once I did (and once I played A Link to the Past on the SNES), I started looking for other games to play on those systems. I'd never have played the Dragon Warrior games, or the Star Fox games, or F-Zero, or Chrono Trigger (off the top of my very sleepy head) without first playing Zelda.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

*shakes head*
This is why having a Paladin in the party is always a problem.

Weren't you just waxing elegant on the benefits of being a Paladin in some other thread? Why the sudden change of alignment?

[Triumph]

I was pretty disappointed by the DS Golden Sun game. It had a few points that revived the the fun of the first two GBA games, but mostly I felt it was slightly weaker.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

*shakes head*
This is why having a Paladin in the party is always a problem.

Weren't you just waxing elegant on the benefits of being a Paladin in some other thread? Why the sudden change of alignment?

No, he was just discussing the differences between fighters, paladins, and clerics. The biggest is how much the party wants to assist the paladin in meeting his deity.

[The Ratt]

My biggest problem was this game was supposed to be 30ish years after and...

Click to reveal..

there's a whole new species, the apollo lens, and alchemy forge just appeared in canon; where were they thirty years ago? There's no way they would appear in that short of time, and how did the original party not notice them 30 years ago?

Also the 3D graphics make the main character look like he's a chubby 10 year old, not 18 or 19.

 

Overall it brought back some fond memories, but, like nioca, I found it weaker than the originals. Particularly since I blew through it in a day or two.

[Aoslare]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Regrettably, under the DMCA, this actually is a grey area in the US: the position of much of the software industry is that your licence to a piece of software only gives you the right to use it under the conditions specified by the copyright holder, not to use the internet to download a copy and run it in an emulator.

I guess this may be grey for modern releases, particularly digital releases, that specify certain conditions for use, but I'm pretty sure I've never seen such specifications for an NES or SNES game. They had limitations of liability for improper use, but never "you are only purchasing the right to use this game as follows."

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

I guess this may be grey for modern releases, particularly digital releases, that specify certain conditions for use, but I'm pretty sure I've never seen such specifications for an NES or SNES game. They had limitations of liability for improper use, but never "you are only purchasing the right to use this game as follows."

Nintendo is especially bad about this sort of thing; one of their arguments is that because NES and SNES cartridges include copy-protection features designed to prevent the making of unauthorised digital copies, any unauthorised dealing with digital copies counts as circumventing copy protection measures, which is a felony under the DMCA. You may not think this is a good argument, but they can afford better lawyers than you.

[Aoslare]

The courts have tended to side against the manufacturers in these cases: see the Nintendo/Galoob fight over Game Genie, and the Sony/Connectix lawsuit over their commercial PlayStation emulator.

 

Regardless, Nintendo asserting that something is illegal does not make it illegal. The CoC doesn't say "you can't talk about things that certain companies assert is illegal," it says "you can't talk about things that are illegal."

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: A lot of really angry elves left

—Alorael, who thinks owes his console purchases and his emulator acquisitions largely to Zelda. A Link to the Past drove to SNES, Ocarina of time justified an N64, and later both required emulation.

Sounds about the same for me (except I never owned a SNES console), but I mainly got the consoles for the Mario games. For the record, though, I do have several Zelda games, too.

[Tyranicus]

I bought a GameCube twice. Once for Wind Waker and once for Twilight Princess.

[The Mystic]

I stopped buying console games (and consoles, for that matter) around the time they stopped selling the N64 and its games.

[nikki.]

I only got my NES recently, but I had one as a kid. I reeeally want a Mega Man 2 cartridge - I've only played that on an emulator so far.

[keira]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

I stopped buying console games (and consoles, for that matter) around the time they stopped selling the N64 and its games.

Things have never been the same since disks, if you ask me. Cartridge screws up? Blow it. Disk screws up? Buy a new disk.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Sylae

Edit Reason: That's how they sucker you in, right there. It's been what, almost a decade? and I can still find perfectly functional cartridges in pawn shops. Wait ten years and see if you'll see still-working game disks.

But you forget, so many people now prefer rapid turnover to quality and longevity. I often think that I'm the youngest person who still expects a device to last more than a year or two. I also still appreciate hard copies of things... I'm too young to complain about the current generation, much of which is older than me.

[Tyranicus]

Actually, you can find 10-year-old (or older!) game discs in thrift stores now.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Sylae

Edit Reason: That's how they sucker you in, right there. It's been what, almost a decade? and I can still find perfectly functional cartridges in pawn shops. Wait ten years and see if you'll see still-working game disks.

I have quite a few game disks that are at least ten years old. They all still work, thank you very much.

Originally Posted By: Master1

But you forget, so many people now prefer rapid turnover to quality and longevity. I often think that I'm the youngest person who still expects a device to last more than a year or two.

I definitely expect devices to last more than a few years. My first computer lasted me the better part of a decade, and I expect at least the same from the computer I built almost a year ago now. I still have my second laptop, and it's a good 3-4 years old now. My calculator from college is over a decade old, and still runs like new.

I prefer to use devices until they wear out; it's cheaper.

Originally Posted By: Master1

I also still appreciate hard copies of things... I'm too young to complain about the current generation, much of which is older than me.

I prefer hardcopies too. You won't catch me buying a Kindle or other ebook reader anytime soon.

[keira]

Yes, but the condition is probably mediocre at best.

 

In any case, I'm surprised cartridges haven't made a comeback, what with the advent of high-density cheap flash storage. Sure, it's more expensive than a disk, but cartridges are faster (esp. with factoring in modern tech, PCI-E ssds have something like 400 MB/s read/write?) and the developer can implement (ick) harder-to-circumvent DRM.

[Alorael at Large]

The cost of a CD or DVD is negligible. The cost of a flash drive isn't large anymore, but it's not essentially nothing. And if you're storing as much data as many modern games take, that price actually gets substantial.

 

—Alorael, who is more surprised that there aren't Super Editions on flash drives. Most consoles now have USB ports, and it wouldn't be hard to charge a little extra for that little performance boost.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Sylae

Yes, but the condition is probably mediocre at best.

In any case, I'm surprised cartridges haven't made a comeback, what with the advent of high-density cheap flash storage. Sure, it's more expensive than a disk, but cartridges are faster (esp. with factoring in modern tech, PCI-E ssds have something like 400 MB/s read/write?) and the developer can implement (ick) harder-to-circumvent DRM.

Comeback? They were never really gone. The Nintendo DS uses cartridges, and it's by far the best-selling gaming system of all time; its successor the 3DS uses them too. The PSP's successor, the PS Vita, is also completely dropping its optical drive in favour of flash storage; it wouldn't surprise me too much if the next generation of consoles went the same way as handhelds are going.

[Necris Omega]

I'd love to see it. As much as disks were a leap forward in capacity, they were a train ride backwards in speed. If going to a solid state storage medium is the next step in getting back to some semblance of the pre-loading time era, I say do it.

[Randomizer]

It's cost versus speed.

[Necris Omega]

Cost vs. speed vs. capacity.

 

Honestly, I don't know if it's more feasible to simply continue upgrading a system's internal reading speed in the name of preserving the disk medium, or if solid state becomes more cost effective at increasing speeds after a certain point.

 

Then again, who knows? Some predict that non-downloaded game media is doomed to extinction period.

[Aoslare]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

The Nintendo DS uses cartridges, and it's by far the best-selling gaming system of all time; its successor the 3DS uses them too.

Nitpick, but Wikipedia says the PS2 has sold more units (as I had suspected). The numbers vary a bit from one source to the next, I imagine, but either way the numbers for the DS and the PS2 must be pretty close.

[Trenton.]

You mean the advanced PS3 or XBOX360 isnt the top? I would have thought with playing music on it, and watching videos, and internet web surfing, they would be.

 

*almost to six hundred posts. 40 to go.*

[Tyranicus]

What surprises me about that list is how close the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are. I had been under the impression that the 360 was much more popular.

[Trenton.]

Why, both support games, internet, pictures, songs (dont know if the XBOX360 gets movies). Matter of fact, what ever happened to the original XBOX. Its like its never sold anymore. Not even at the walmart a few blocks away.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.

Why, both support games, internet, pictures, songs (dont know if the XBOX360 gets movies). Matter of fact, what ever happened to the original XBOX. Its like its never sold anymore. Not even at the walmart a few blocks away.

Given that the 360 is almost fully backwards-compatible with the Xbox, there's very little reason to buy an original Xbox today.

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

What surprises me about that list is how close the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are. I had been under the impression that the 360 was much more popular.

In most Western countries, the 360 has the advantage. However, it sells quite poorly in Japan, where the PS3 does much better.

[Alorael at Large]

Consoles of previous generations are usually hard to find years after they've been supplanted. What's surprising about it?

 

—Alorael, who thinks it's well worth keeping mind elements besides the extra abilities when examining consoles. Older generations have had more years to sell. The Playstation had two years before it had to compete against the Xbox. The DS, as a handheld, is in a market niche of its own.