Fledgling Fyora Sylak the mad Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I read on jeff's blog that he will be making future games. So I made a list of stuff that would be nice to see in them that I think have been lacking in the previous games that I have played. 1) Outdoors! I loved outdoors. They made the world feel bigger and more epic. I would like to see it make a return. 2) The ability to poison weapons with poisons made from alchemy in the older games was cool. I'd like to see that again. Maybe different types of poisons that do different things could be interesting too. 3) Difficulty. I've noticed that certain skills become useless on harder difficulties - like defence. Ok, in recent games since defence unlocks parry you could argue it's not completely useless. 4) Not having to learn things in a certain order This is a geneforge example: Having to first train a skill before finding a canister otherwise the npc won't train you because you already have a point in it, is just annoying, whereas if you had foreknowledge of the situation you could have had 2 levels of a spell/creation instead of 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: Sylak the mad 4) Not having to learn things in a certain order This is a geneforge example: Having to first train a skill before finding a canister otherwise the npc won't train you because you already have a point in it, is just annoying, whereas if you had foreknowledge of the situation you could have had 2 levels of a spell/creation instead of 1. This has already been changed in the most recent games. You can use canisters whenever you want now. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yeah, I'm with Diki. If you played anything past geneforge 2, then you would know that this has been corrected, and quite honestly, forgotten about. The point of high difficulty is to make it harder, therefore, certain skills are made to be less effective... Again, outdoors, fairly common. Yeah, you can poison weapons with crystals and such in Geneforge... All in all, this has already been done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'd like to see outdoors return, but it seems to be a thing of the past for Jeff. Maybe they'll make a return so that the new world can feel sufficiently large. Alternately, though, Jeff could make a game in which outdoors really have no place, or even stick with the Geneforge model. Only Avernum feels small without the outdoors, and only A4 feels really small. Poison hasn't worked like it does in Exile since Exile. Sure, it might be nice, but given how little we know of the game it's a rather niche request. And, in all honesty, it's rather hard to poison your weapons in the middle of a battle as you can in Exile. —Alorael, who of course has ignored the spells that do it for you. He's in favor of bringing back Major Blessing. Or even Beast Ceremony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fledgling Fyora Sylak the mad Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis The point of high difficulty is to make it harder, therefore, certain skills are made to be less effective... Less effective yes. Completely useless. No. Defence becomes useless on high difficulty levels for example because no matter what - everything has the maximum chance to hit. Quote: Again, outdoors, fairly common. What? There has been no outdoors since avernum 3 Quote: Yeah, you can poison weapons with crystals and such in Geneforge... I don't view crystals as bringing alchemy poison back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 These problems come up if you havn't played all the games. The Geneforge series has plenty of outdoors. I'm pretty sure some of that series was made after Avernum 3. That puts it in "Future Game" catagory in comparison so that argument is satisfied. Diffrent Posions is a nice idea. Not sure what effects they would have though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: Hypnotic The Geneforge series has plenty of outdoors. I'm pretty sure some of that series was made after Avernum 3. That puts it in "Future Game" catagory in comparison so that argument is satisfied. Look. These are screenshots from Avernum 3. This is in a town. This is outdoors. Note how different they are? Do you see that Geneforge and the second Avernum trilogy doesn't have this separation? That's what people are talking about when they say they want outdoors to make a comeback. Dikiyoba also wants to see outdoors return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: Hypnotic These problems come up if you havn't played all the games. Apparently. Different poisons as a way for fighters to do more than just hit things would be an interesting alternative to the Battle Disciplines model. Exile just had poisons that did damage over time (like all poison in all Spiderweb games), but more creative ones could be interesting. —Alorael, who actually thinks the only obvious difference between the screenshots is the party going from a line to a set of tiny people. If you don't know what you're looking for it's not obvious. Those tiny people make a big difference nevertheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Men are from Slars Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yeah, "outdoors" in this discussion really means "walkabout mode both on zoomed out world map and zoomed in zone locations, which do not all have to be adjacent to each other" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I just want to see my oozing sword ooze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Dakkanor Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Originally Posted By: You would, wouldn't you? Different poisons as a way for fighters to do more than just hit things would be an interesting alternative to the Battle Disciplines model. Exile just had poisons that did damage over time (like all poison in all Spiderweb games), but more creative ones could be interesting. i could imagine magic poisons that enchant a weapon or bit of ammo for one shot eg. fire burst poison that burns ontop of the physical damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 One thing I feel lacking is that the games should give more xp for playing in harder levels as an incentive for non crazies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Torment is only there for crazy people. No normal people play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jucobi One thing I feel lacking is that the games should give more xp for playing in harder levels as an incentive for non crazies Then harder would in fact not be harder. —Alorael, who would turn the difficulty all the way up for minor fights to grab easy experience, and he'd then turn it back down for tough battles. He's done it before in Realmz. It does not make for functional difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Actually, that sort of thing can be done right, but only if the difficulty system is specifically designed around it. I'm aware of one action-RPG where turning up the difficulty reduces your maximum health and increases item drop rates: if you turn it all the way up, enemies are guaranteed to drop items, but everything can pretty much kill you in one hit. The idea is that you turn it up for regular enemies once you know how to fight them without getting hurt, and then turn it down for bosses (who are guaranteed to drop items anyway). You can fight bosses with the difficulty turned up, but it's purely for bragging rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 yeah group haste should be returned besides if the ingame characters can use group haste why can't we? another ingame spell (which i dont remember which game but maybe E3) was unholy ravaging. why cant we get that spell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Unholy Ravaging was a spell in E3, yes, but you could never learn it. Another such spell was Wrack, which I suspect was a lower-level version of Wound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk The Knight Who Said Ni Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I miss the surface, tons of pointless towns, a wider variety of items (axes, pikes, flails, now greatswords, saber, rapiers, poison, and many others from Exile.) And towns and outdoor sections were nice even though they were unrealistic, it was easier to navigate and organize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 If someone starts with the shaman pre-made class they should be able to use aspect of the beast just like enemy shamans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dantius Torment is only there for crazy people. No normal people play it. We're all crazy, because we all have to hand over our sanity to the fluffy turtles. Also, "normal people" is an oxymoron, so we all must be crazy, since there's no such thing as "normal." Only crazy people play on Torment, meaning everyone else plays at all other difficulties. Therefore, since we're all crazy, we all play on Torment. (I knew that Intro to Logic class I took in college would come in handy someday! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Zuljin If someone starts with the shaman pre-made class they should be able to use aspect of the beast just like enemy shamans Giving Spiderweb games meaningful classes would be a step in the wrong direction. —Alorael, who doesn't want to have to choose between nifty abilities and min-maxing with customization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Mystic Originally Posted By: Dantius Torment is only there for crazy people. No normal people play it. We're all crazy, because we all have to hand over our sanity to the fluffy turtles. Also, "normal people" is an oxymoron, so we all must be crazy, since there's no such thing as "normal." Only crazy people play on Torment, meaning everyone else plays at all other difficulties. Therefore, since we're all crazy, we all play on Torment. (I knew that Intro to Logic class I took in college would come in handy someday! ) I find your lack of logic disturbing. If we work backwards, beginning with the assumption that all Jeff's customers are crazy, we can see that that is clearly false, as we would all play on Torment, which we don't. Therefore, we must alter it to "all forum members", which is also false. The narrowest range that we can come up with, then, is "all established and respected forum members" are crazy, and thus play on torment. However, even Alorael, the poster septuagenarian for crazed psychopaths established and respected members, does not play on Torment. Therefore, he is either not crazy, or your argument is false. Since he is, I win, as this would be consistent with my postulate, which, being posted by me, is, by definition, inerrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk The Knight Who Said Ni Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I think this argument is getting ridiculous. I choose to vouch for my own insanity and will, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dantius ... be definition, inerrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity LIES!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know what you are talking about, Goldstein. We have always been at war with Eastasia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Torment isn't harder than Normal, the fights just take longer. Honestly that's the only difference I've noticed in switching from Normal to Torment. It doesn't take any special tactics or thought just more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: VCH It doesn't take any special tactics or thought just more time. Special tactics, however, allow you to do it in a similar amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dantius Originally Posted By: The Mystic Originally Posted By: Dantius Torment is only there for crazy people. No normal people play it. We're all crazy, because we all have to hand over our sanity to the fluffy turtles. Also, "normal people" is an oxymoron, so we all must be crazy, since there's no such thing as "normal." Only crazy people play on Torment, meaning everyone else plays at all other difficulties. Therefore, since we're all crazy, we all play on Torment. (I knew that Intro to Logic class I took in college would come in handy someday! ) I find your lack of logic disturbing. If we work backwards, beginning with the assumption that all Jeff's customers are crazy, we can see that that is clearly false, as we would all play on Torment, which we don't. Therefore, we must alter it to "all forum members", which is also false. The narrowest range that we can come up with, then, is "all established and respected forum members" are crazy, and thus play on torment. However, even Alorael, the poster septuagenarian for crazed psychopaths established and respected members, does not play on Torment. Therefore, he is either not crazy, or your argument is false. Since he is, I win, as this would be consistent with my postulate, which, being posted by me, is, by definition, inerrant. but he did not say that all crazy people play torment, only all people that play torment are crazy, and to play in a world were rats can kill you with one hit you must be crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I was just following what Dantius said to its (admittedly circular) logical conclusion, although I agree that if you play where everything can take you out in one hit, you have to have wandered at least a little bit from the realm of the sane (or maybe just a glutton for punishment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: VCH Torment isn't harder than Normal, the fights just take longer. Honestly that's the only difference I've noticed in switching from Normal to Torment. It doesn't take any special tactics or thought just more time. Torment is harder than normal. It's not really complex in its difficulty, but having everything hit harder and absorb more hits means that fights take longer and you are more fragile over that longer period of time. Thus, the standard advice: tactics that work on Torment will work faster and more easily on lower difficulties. Some "sloppy" tactics that work on easier settings start failing on Torment. —Alorael, who suspects that you're relying on the former. And that you may have a ways to go in the game before the wall of torment falls upon you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dantius Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity LIES!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know what you are talking about, Goldstein. We have always been at war with Eastasia. <grumble> UBB should never have put in those 'mark as edited' check boxes. </grumble> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug goblindolf Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: VCH Torment isn't harder than Normal, the fights just take longer. Honestly that's the only difference I've noticed in switching from Normal to Torment. I've noticed things seem to hit harder on torment. On normal it's pretty hard to die. But i've been killed by rats on torment early on. I then have to reload and make a plan to slay the foul creature, and sometimes even use my potions. On normal I end up with 20 potions I saved up for a hard encounter that never came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Yeah, that's the point of Torment...for things to be harder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: To have; please hold Originally Posted By: VCH Torment isn't harder than Normal, the fights just take longer. Honestly that's the only difference I've noticed in switching from Normal to Torment. It doesn't take any special tactics or thought just more time. Torment is harder than normal. It's not really complex in its difficulty, but having everything hit harder and absorb more hits means that fights take longer and you are more fragile over that longer period of time. Thus, the standard advice: tactics that work on Torment will work faster and more easily on lower difficulties. Some "sloppy" tactics that work on easier settings start failing on Torment. —Alorael, who suspects that you're relying on the former. And that you may have a ways to go in the game before the wall of torment falls upon you. I probably am relying on some sloppy tactics. And like I said they don't seem to make life difficult on torment. The standard walk up and hack with some spells works just fine. Torment for me has been all about clicking the mouse button more often to kill a monster. I was quite disappointed by it actually. However, I am using a 4 person party, so obviously it's a lot harder to go with a one or two person party. I do like how torment slows the game down though. Quests take a bit longer to complete when everyone has a bit more life to hack away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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