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spiderwebers to mars :P


inni
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hi every one,

i was recently thinking about space and i realised that humans might not land on mars for another 20 years.

then i thought that it would be cool if every one on these forms colonized mars and made a new country full of smart spiderwebers (?) and their family's/ friends, if you have any ideas for the mars colony please post them here.

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The final frontier is different from previous frontiers. It's not an uncivilized land for the taking. It's a painfully distant, painfully difficult, and above all extraordinarily expensive proposition. If you are enough of an asset to be worth paying to send, you don't need to go. If you have the money to send yourself, you definitely don't need to go.

 

Mars will be colonized by those who find being on that frontier and being the explorers and the problem-solvers exciting and rewarding in its own right. And it may rely on penal labor.

 

—Alorael, who just doesn't see space colonization catching on in the next century or so unless space technology gets immensely better or conditions on Earth deteriorate drastically.

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Originally Posted By: Master1
All we have to do is create the ansible from O.S. Card's books. Then we can conquer the galaxy in our alien spaceships.


it was actually ursula le guin who came up with that, card just stole the word

this is important because le guin has more talent in her left ovary than card has in his entire body

and that's even after menopause
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I'm certainly not heading for Mars. Let's fix up this planet before we go out and wreck another one.

Originally Posted By: Dantius
How could I play chess online??!?!??!!
People have been known to play chess by mail.
Originally Posted By: I need no introduction
humans might not land on mars for another 20 years.
And it's doubtful even then. In 200 years, maybe...
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Originally Posted By: The Ghost of Jewels
If I were to travel through space to colonize a planet, I wouldn't want it to be Mars. Let me know when they've found another M class planet and the technology to get me there before I die. Then I start thinking about it.

@Will: Living up to your name, I see.

for people to travel to planets like that we would need to make the technology to get there, mars seems like a good place to start working on that technology.
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Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis
For the colinization of any new planet, you would most likely need geneticists of some type...the next shapers if you will.

No. Settling a planet might require that. Colonizing just requires frequently imported materials and some solid construction.

—Alorael, who doesn't see anything inherently wrong with living in an enclosed habitat. It's just a bit nerve-wracking to live knowing that a small rock hurled in the wrong place at the wrong time could kill you at any moment. Actually, that's usually true...
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There is a lot more water then you give the moon credit for. The recent impact of the moon NASA did of a lunar crater revelied 25 gallons of water just from the small impact that lcross made. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/nasa-moon-bombing-finds-lunar-water/story?id=9076967.

Besides if your looking for an object with lots of liquid water try Europa (a moon of Jupiter) Its a bit further away than Mars but has large quantities of liquid water.

 

As an engineering major I have to say space travel is a lot easier then some people are making out.

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@Lord Safey: So they haven't taught you about the rocket equation and gravitational binding energy? tongue Just getting off the earth is a doable but annoying job. Once you've done that you have to deal with pesky orbital mechanics. Then, after you've dealt with all of that you get to, as Nioca rightly points out, wait a really long time. Space travel is certainly possible; it just isn't anything like economical for most purposes.

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Originally Posted By: Thuryl
Originally Posted By: Me

All we have to do is create the ansible from O.S. Card's books. Then we can conquer the galaxy in our alien spaceships.


it was actually ursula le guin who came up with that, card just stole the word

this is important because le guin has more talent in her left ovary than card has in his entire body

and that's even after menopause


Forgive me, I haven't read any of her books. I just said what I was familiar with. I actually think I have some of her work. I'll have to check that out.
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To be fair, the explanation in Ender's Game is that the word was borrowed from old sci-fi. And the last few Earthsea books were as nutty as anything Card can produce, though of course they have their own very particular kinds of crazy.

 

—Alorael, who agrees that space travel is quite feasible. It's also expensive and potentially explosive, though. The biggest problem is never getting there, either. It's getting home from somewhere that isn't going to put some nice liquid fuel in a package for you that's the trick.

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Originally Posted By: Niemand
@Lord Safey: So they haven't taught you about the rocket equation and gravitational binding energy? tongue Just getting off the earth is a doable but annoying job. Once you've done that you have to deal with pesky orbital mechanics. Then, after you've dealt with all of that you get to, as Nioca rightly points out, wait a really long time. Space travel is certainly possible; it just isn't anything like economical for most purposes.


I do know that the more you bring into space the more fuel you need to get it their (this includes rocket fuel) which is one reason why nasa is real big on water and air recycling it is also why nasa did is this lcross mission. They are considering the possibility of making rocket fuel out of the water they may find on the moon. Since the moons gravity is significantly less then earths it would take a lot less fuel to get it in earths orbit from the moon then taking all that fuel from earth. So the whole point of the lcross mission was to see if NASA could reasonably make the whole going into space a lot more economical.
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I've never heard that about LCROSS, I couldn't verify that part of the LCROSS mission, and now I'm curious. Just how did NASA intend to fuel anything with lunar water? You can't really launch yourself with frozen chunks of water, and just thawing the stuff would require a fair amount of fuel to provide energy. Then you have water, which isn't an ideal rocket fuel even in the best of circumstances.

 

—Alorael, who can only assume the ultimate plan is rockets with more efficient hydrogen fuel cells. He's not even sure how a fuel cell would work in something that needs reaction mass, not torque, to get going.

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Because water contains hydrogen and oxygen the two main components of rocket fuel.

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/news/releases/2009/09-083.html

to quote from this article

"The extracted ice can be used for multiple purposes to meet human needs at a lunar outpost. Water also can be split into hydrogen and oxygen by a process known as electrolysis, which separates materials with the use of an electric current. Once split, the hydrogen and oxygen molecules could be used as a fuel or oxidizer."

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The hydrogen. Basically you store energy (from electricity) by separating the water into hydrogen and oxygen. Then, you recombine the hydrogen and oxygen to form water and get back the energy in the form of kinetic energy of the resulting molecules, which you direct out the back of your spacecraft. Conversing momentum requires that your spacecraft acquire some of the energy as kinetic energy as well (this is picked up by the act of directing the exhaust), and off you go.

 

You could, as Alorael pointed out, just throw the water out the back for the same net effect, but doing so would require very different mechanisms, like a catapult, and a separate means of storing the energy to do the throwing. Combustion engines for rockets are sort of elegant in that they handle storage and release of energy right along with the reaction mass.

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