Kyshakk Koan inni Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 hi every one, i was recently thinking about space and i realised that humans might not land on mars for another 20 years. then i thought that it would be cool if every one on these forms colonized mars and made a new country full of smart spiderwebers (?) and their family's/ friends, if you have any ideas for the mars colony please post them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 ...I'm not going, thanks. I rather like Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Space station, maybe, especially if it is a gigantic steel orb capable of destroying a planet. Mars, no. Definitely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Are you kidding? There's, like, a fifteen minute lag between here and mars...Imagine trying to play online games or chatting then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 How could I play chess online??!?!??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 None of us would live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Whatever you do, don't drink the water. Don't let it touch you - not even one drop. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 All we have to do is create the ansible from O.S. Card's books. Then we can conquer the galaxy in our alien spaceships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 fine don't come with me to mars, i will just live by in a shack in the middle of mars by myself . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 To paraphrase on an old saying: "If you terraform it they will come." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 ...Mars is nice, yeah, but I've no plans to move there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 The final frontier is different from previous frontiers. It's not an uncivilized land for the taking. It's a painfully distant, painfully difficult, and above all extraordinarily expensive proposition. If you are enough of an asset to be worth paying to send, you don't need to go. If you have the money to send yourself, you definitely don't need to go. Mars will be colonized by those who find being on that frontier and being the explorers and the problem-solvers exciting and rewarding in its own right. And it may rely on penal labor. —Alorael, who just doesn't see space colonization catching on in the next century or so unless space technology gets immensely better or conditions on Earth deteriorate drastically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Mars is cold...really, really cold...and you'd have to live in the poles if you wanted any water (Yes, it's mostly carbon dioxide, but there is some water in there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I would like the moon. Everything would have to be transerefed from Earth as there is no water. As far as I know there is some early stage planning prepeared for something like that. Only for qaulified astronaughts too. America, I will steal NASA so I can go to space! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Hypnotic Everything would have to be transerefed from Earth as there is no water. Actually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master1 All we have to do is create the ansible from O.S. Card's books. Then we can conquer the galaxy in our alien spaceships. it was actually ursula le guin who came up with that, card just stole the word this is important because le guin has more talent in her left ovary than card has in his entire body and that's even after menopause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl this is important because le guin has more talent in her left ovary than card has in his entire body and that's even after menopause This. I loathe Card with a burning passion. I love Heinlein, though. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Excalibur Originally Posted By: Hypnotic Everything would have to be transerefed from Earth as there is no water. Actually... But not enough to live on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Balladeer Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 If I were to travel through space to colonize a planet, I wouldn't want it to be Mars. Let me know when they've found another M class planet and the technology to get me there before I die. Then I start thinking about it. @Will: Living up to your name, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Ghost of Jewels If I were to travel through space to colonize a planet, I wouldn't want it to be Mars. Let me know when they've found another M class planet and the technology to get me there before I die. Then I start thinking about it. Yeah. Pretty much this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Nalyd's favorite science fiction author will always remain Dan Simmons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 For the colinization of any new planet, you would most likely need geneticists of some type...the next shapers if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 We're note doing that any time soon, nor can we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm certainly not heading for Mars. Let's fix up this planet before we go out and wreck another one. Originally Posted By: Dantius How could I play chess online??!?!??!! People have been known to play chess by mail. Originally Posted By: I need no introduction humans might not land on mars for another 20 years. And it's doubtful even then. In 200 years, maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Yes, correspondence chess. Trust me, I know. I prefer speed chess, though. I find it more interesting than a slow game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Ghost of Jewels If I were to travel through space to colonize a planet, I wouldn't want it to be Mars. Let me know when they've found another M class planet and the technology to get me there before I die. Then I start thinking about it. @Will: Living up to your name, I see. for people to travel to planets like that we would need to make the technology to get there, mars seems like a good place to start working on that technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis For the colinization of any new planet, you would most likely need geneticists of some type...the next shapers if you will. No. Settling a planet might require that. Colonizing just requires frequently imported materials and some solid construction. —Alorael, who doesn't see anything inherently wrong with living in an enclosed habitat. It's just a bit nerve-wracking to live knowing that a small rock hurled in the wrong place at the wrong time could kill you at any moment. Actually, that's usually true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Actually, we have potentially discovered such a planet. Getting to it is... another issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Nioca Actually, we have potentially discovered such a planet. Getting to it is... another issue. and the gravity is so much it may kill us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Lord Safey Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 There is a lot more water then you give the moon credit for. The recent impact of the moon NASA did of a lunar crater revelied 25 gallons of water just from the small impact that lcross made. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/nasa-moon-bombing-finds-lunar-water/story?id=9076967. Besides if your looking for an object with lots of liquid water try Europa (a moon of Jupiter) Its a bit further away than Mars but has large quantities of liquid water. As an engineering major I have to say space travel is a lot easier then some people are making out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Lord Safey As an engineering major I have to say space travel is a lot easier then some people are making out. It's not the travel that's the problem, it's the time involved. There's not much point in vacationing to Gliese if it takes a couple generations to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 @Lord Safey: So they haven't taught you about the rocket equation and gravitational binding energy? Just getting off the earth is a doable but annoying job. Once you've done that you have to deal with pesky orbital mechanics. Then, after you've dealt with all of that you get to, as Nioca rightly points out, wait a really long time. Space travel is certainly possible; it just isn't anything like economical for most purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl Originally Posted By: Me All we have to do is create the ansible from O.S. Card's books. Then we can conquer the galaxy in our alien spaceships. it was actually ursula le guin who came up with that, card just stole the word this is important because le guin has more talent in her left ovary than card has in his entire body and that's even after menopause Forgive me, I haven't read any of her books. I just said what I was familiar with. I actually think I have some of her work. I'll have to check that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 To be fair, the explanation in Ender's Game is that the word was borrowed from old sci-fi. And the last few Earthsea books were as nutty as anything Card can produce, though of course they have their own very particular kinds of crazy. —Alorael, who agrees that space travel is quite feasible. It's also expensive and potentially explosive, though. The biggest problem is never getting there, either. It's getting home from somewhere that isn't going to put some nice liquid fuel in a package for you that's the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Space radiator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Lord Safey Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Niemand @Lord Safey: So they haven't taught you about the rocket equation and gravitational binding energy? Just getting off the earth is a doable but annoying job. Once you've done that you have to deal with pesky orbital mechanics. Then, after you've dealt with all of that you get to, as Nioca rightly points out, wait a really long time. Space travel is certainly possible; it just isn't anything like economical for most purposes. I do know that the more you bring into space the more fuel you need to get it their (this includes rocket fuel) which is one reason why nasa is real big on water and air recycling it is also why nasa did is this lcross mission. They are considering the possibility of making rocket fuel out of the water they may find on the moon. Since the moons gravity is significantly less then earths it would take a lot less fuel to get it in earths orbit from the moon then taking all that fuel from earth. So the whole point of the lcross mission was to see if NASA could reasonably make the whole going into space a lot more economical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I've never heard that about LCROSS, I couldn't verify that part of the LCROSS mission, and now I'm curious. Just how did NASA intend to fuel anything with lunar water? You can't really launch yourself with frozen chunks of water, and just thawing the stuff would require a fair amount of fuel to provide energy. Then you have water, which isn't an ideal rocket fuel even in the best of circumstances. —Alorael, who can only assume the ultimate plan is rockets with more efficient hydrogen fuel cells. He's not even sure how a fuel cell would work in something that needs reaction mass, not torque, to get going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Lord Safey Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Because water contains hydrogen and oxygen the two main components of rocket fuel. http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/news/releases/2009/09-083.html to quote from this article "The extracted ice can be used for multiple purposes to meet human needs at a lunar outpost. Water also can be split into hydrogen and oxygen by a process known as electrolysis, which separates materials with the use of an electric current. Once split, the hydrogen and oxygen molecules could be used as a fuel or oxidizer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 What do we need to oxidize? Honest question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The hydrogen. Basically you store energy (from electricity) by separating the water into hydrogen and oxygen. Then, you recombine the hydrogen and oxygen to form water and get back the energy in the form of kinetic energy of the resulting molecules, which you direct out the back of your spacecraft. Conversing momentum requires that your spacecraft acquire some of the energy as kinetic energy as well (this is picked up by the act of directing the exhaust), and off you go. You could, as Alorael pointed out, just throw the water out the back for the same net effect, but doing so would require very different mechanisms, like a catapult, and a separate means of storing the energy to do the throwing. Combustion engines for rockets are sort of elegant in that they handle storage and release of energy right along with the reaction mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Lord Safey Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The hydrogen fuel. The hydrogen must have oxygen to react. Oxygen in this particular reaction serves as the oxidizing agent in this reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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