Sleeping Dragon

Good point, Thuryl! I never thought about essence being able to grow itself. I guess that also answers the question about even the most heavily dependent creations being alive. If essence practically has a life of its own, then they surely must as well.

Ah, but remember Geneforge 3, when you discover an artilla that Master Hodge had left behind in the pens, and the innkeeper asks you to get rid of it for him? You are given the option of absorbing it, and I don't even think that is the only instance where you can absorb creations that are not yours. As far as creation independence goes, I wouldn't say a shaper can control a creation's individual movements, it's limbs and such; it can only command it to do things by itself. A creation can be made dumb enough to obey always, basically the equivalent of a trained dog or even a brainwashed person, but I don't think their link with their master goes beyond that. It could even be that a creation can only be absorbed if it goes willingly, as I don't believe we've ever seen anyone absorb a hostile creation (the PC had to calm that artilla and get it to go willingly). I don't think that even the most dependent creations, however, have any kind of link with their creator other than programed loyalty and a possible optional telepathic link. And yes, I do believe the game describes essence as something carried around and used. I don't think it's like mana or spell energy of whatever, but you are right in that it can be created somehow by individuals.

I don't think that the essence you use to make creations is so much a part of you as some of you seem to by implying. To be a Shaper only really means you have the ability to manipulate essence and hold a small supply worth of the stuff within you. You are limited in that you have a maximum capacity of essence that you can manipulate and hold at any one time. You can use up that essence with spells and it will be gone, yet you can replace it with essence from a random pool. So it's not really 'your' essence, just random primordial goo that you can use for your purposes. You can absorb someone else's creation easily, because the essence that made that creation was not attached to the shaper in any kind of permanent way. Creations are not an extension of the shaper. They are their own being, crafted by someone else out of natural resources (or... do they ever say how essence is made?). The reason why your essence stays down when you have creations active is because of the control you have upon that creation, and are thus still using the essence that is making up that creation's body. I imagine that if you were to release your creations into the wild to live their own lives (something that was simply never programed in), you would be able to replace that essence with some new goo. As for the original posters question, I'd say that a creation does indeed die when absorbed. It's consciousness is terminated and can not be brought back. Whether you believe in a soul or not, that being is unquestionable dead. It's body is being converted back into essence, but whatever made it that particular living being before it was absorbed is now gone.

They actually have a long enough pattern that there is no rush. In fact, I often get annoyed at how long it takes them to move back and forth when they're in an area where they'll see me.

If you don't mind cheating a bit (just pretend it's you listening to their footsteps) you can use the code 'showmeall.' It makes enemies show up on the map and it works great for evading hostile patrols.

Quick question, more of an opinion type question: if I want to join Agent Astoria, do you think she'd approve of me using canisters?

For you guys that are just itching to answer some! 1. The manual describes a "Thahds in the Workshop" quest. Who in Minallah gives this quest? I asked everyone, including that shopkeeper guy whom I assume is the one that is supposed to give it (it's his workshop). 2. There's a closed door in the back of Gorash-Kel. Any way to open it?

Canisters don't seem to be as big a deal in this game as they were in previous ones. I guess since you're altered from the start everyone just sort of expects you to use them (Rawal seems to approve of you using that first one in his fortress). Can anyone who has finished the game, preferably multiple times, tell me how big an effect canisters have in the endings? Even if it's just a few lines like it's been in previous games, I'd like to know whether or not the only thing I have to gain from not using them is the RP value (my loyalists never use canisters ).

Originally Posted By: Your Famous Blue Raincoat Nalyd would go about on his typical list of why Trakovism sucks, but he hasn't yet finished G5, and so doesn't know how the playing field has changed. Don't worry, you'll soon see the return of disgustingly stupid debating, just as soon as Nalyd gets around to finishing. I can't wait. I'm so glad Litalia went for the Trakovites, she really is the perfect person to lead them. She's seen the worst (and best) that both sides have to offer, and she has finally seen the light.

Does this game have a nifty built-in editor like the last Avernum game (accessed by some shift-d code) or should I ask real nicely if anyone might be working on one?

I hadn't read this thread before I ordered, so no limited edition printed hint book for me. But rather than play the game in windowed mode so I could read the pdf file, I printed it out and had to go down to the printing center here at my college to collect it. A bit embarrassing collecting a game manual from a college print center, but well worth it, for sure!

Thanks.

Wow, so much research already done! This will come in handy, yes, but could you maybe post the items that we should keep for the various quests throughout the game? You know, like shaper records and things like that? That usually the first thing I want to know before I start playing.

Originally Posted By: Nebulan The only change I agreed with was the guardian. Now see, I though the old ones' cylindrical helmets were iconic as well, and I was surprised by the change. I agree with Dikiyoba about the spawners. Didn't descriptions from Geneforge 1 specifically mention the tendrils picking up the essence in the nearby pool? Now the tendrils are gone. Where do the creations come from? Do they shoot out of the hole on the top? The new fyoras, thahds, and battle alphas themselves don't bother me so much. If the new ones had been the old ones and vice versa my complaint would be the same (negated nostalgia).

I can't say there is a single graphical 'upgrade' made in the Geneforge series that I have agreed with completely. It's not necessarily that all the new ones are worse than the old ones, but it does negate the nostalgia feeling when suddenly a creation you've been shaping for years doesn't look the same anymore. I also don't really like the new shaper graphic, the old one was far more iconic and, interestingly, is still used in splash screen and endings art. I wonder how that happened. Edit: One change I wouldn't be opposed to would be a new drakon graphic. The old one doesn't look that great anyway and drakons are, after all, the one creation that actually does claim to be changing with every new generation.

If the game is frustrating you so much, Ghaldring, there is no shame in changing the difficulty to easy or even buffing your characters a bit with an editor to make the game's pace more to your liking.

I think the conduits at least play a part for distance shaping. Shaila shapes creations from the other side of a wall to attack you, and there are indeed conduits going through the wall attaching to the platforms the creations appear on. Moseh's Eastern Barrier as well as most other places where creations appear infinitely (at least in G4 which I most recently played) all have shaping platforms that the creations appear on. Could it be that Jeff has evolved the method since G1? Perhaps they are used a a focusing point of some sort, at least for distance shaping?

I appreciate you guys proving me wrong by getting back on topic. I think the difference between shaping and genetic engineering is simply... magic. They both do the same thing, but where a shaper uses magic to alter genes, scientists in our world use... whatever scientists use (not my area of expertise, obviously). So sure, we can sort of shape in our modern world, but not nearly to the dangerous extent that they can in Geneforge. You need to by a scientist with great knowledge and expensive equipment to shape on earth, and even then you are extremely limited. Shaping seems to be a more inherent power and if the average person on earth could tap into that power (or worse, canisters were introduced) then there would be catastrophic consequences. Just out of curiosity, anyone ever read Report on the Barnhouse Effect by Vonnegut? In it, a man suddenly discovered the secret of telekinesis (it is hinted that anyone could unlock this power if they know the secret) yet he wisely keeps it to himself and uses it to destroy all weapons of mass destruction on earth. He is quickly vilified by the major powers of the world.

Aw, you guys killed the topic a second time.

Sorry I missed the other one. Well, not really. I would keep it to myself. If you think the Geneforge world has it bad, imagine the modern world if shaping were suddenly a factor! That game Bioshock gave you a taste of a similar scenario. Things didn't turn out well for those people. Crazy cosmetic surgeons, genetic arms races, creepy marketing scheme's for tonics and plasmids (Bioshock versions of canisters). Their entire civilization crumbed into a few insane survivors and those guys didn't even have the ability to make creations! If shaping were introduced into our world, things would take a turn for the worst. The Creations Rights activists would be the biggest interest group ever, both candidates would pander, I'm sure, while at the same time denying any affiliation with such groups. Then there's religion, just imagine how many different ways they would come up with for how shaping is an affront against God. So sorry, if I could shape, I would probably keep it to myself. I would never be able to help as many people with it as would be hurt by it in the long run.

You're not going to sell this story, are you? If not, he probably won't object to a free fan fiction. Though it can't hurt to ask him, I suppose. He will answer you if you email him.

Originally Posted By: Ghaldring If someone really wants to do you in, they generally will. Something similar was famously said by Abraham Lincoln. How right he was. Still, if a servile sticks a knife in your back, it would probably only do a couple of hit points in damage. You'd be fine.

How very practical. Makes me imagine what would happen if canisters existed in this world, with the Supreme Court arguing over legalizing medicinal canister use. You'd probably have to go to Singapore.

Oh, missed a page.

Teeth? A ghast does not have mere teeth! Couldn't replicate that one with the new dialog system. Still I think I prefer it to the old one regardless, for the reasons Alorael mentioned.