Sleeping Dragon

I don't think it is a bug, there is no way to coax him into a fight that I found. Just attack him. After all, you are being treacherous, so the label shouldn't bother you that much. Edit: A true celt wouldn't take the the pelt, I did that in my Roman game (still labeled as treacherous even then). Doing it as a Celt is fine, but you are called treacherous no matter what since you do have to swear to him you won't attack before entering no matter whose side you are on. Edit Again: I'm pretty sure that it is not a bug, since that special note that you get about being treacherous was put in there because you are expected to attack the chief unprovoked. So hack away, you bloodthirsty barbarian!

I always imagined a hell-like plane that had just as many demons living on it as there are people on earth. Makes you wonder why demons never think to summon humans to fight in their hell battles alongside them.

Originally Posted By: The Ratt See that's why I never found him, I try to avoid drunkards as much as possible. True adventurers know random drunkards is where all the real money is.

I guess the part I dislike most about the BoA engine is the way walls work, like how they are only on one side of a square, making building that much more annoying to design. I prefer the modular walls of the new Avernums, and I think a continuous world would be more manageable as well. Oh, well, I suppose I have little right to talk here, having never finished a scenario myself.

So you don''t want Jeff to make another Blades? I didn't think the engine was that bad. If anything, I think it would be more user friendly as the engine is more user friendly. Easier to use means more scenarios made, this is a good thing, no?

That would suggest humans evolved apart from shaping itself and are not a product of it, unless the Sholai forgot about shaping for some reason. What about the big Geneforge 1 secret makes people think serviles and humans are related? Why does everyone infer this?

Arcane lore is now used only for reading spell books you find lying around in the world to learn new spell from. Edit: And yes, you can sell the gold rings, they are not used for crafting at all if I recall correctly, just the platinum ones.

To Evnissyen: On your first point, I suppose that makes sense. Still, propaganda was a big factor in the Cold War. REmove that, and you would have serviles and humans fighting along side each other, respecting each other, and they could very well end up as friends after the Rebellion is defeated. On the second point, I must humbly disagree. I think that losing a war causes people to search for others to blame. This is a perfect environment for insurrection. On the last point, there was at least one Shaper that resorted to using canisters, hinting that a Barzite-like faction might be a possibility. Still, you are right, as of Geneforge 4, no signs of servile sympathizers among the ranks of the loyalists as of yet.

Why not an internal force? A sympathetic Shaper Councilor for example? After all, the old ways failed, I could see radicals gaining some power as the people and the army loses confidence in the conservatives. I'm not sure where you were going with your analogy, the US and USSR never really reconciled, and there was no external force. The US just... won. Right?

You could fill a wiki about Geneforge without giving any opinions (other than those in in-game characters). It really is a unique world with its own history and everything, it wouldn't be hard. I know there are at least some people who post here who are lore freaks, aren't there?

The Awakened actually didn't think the Shapers would let them live, that's why they create a huge drakon army for protection in their ending. But yeah, it would be nice if the Shapers would give the serviles freedom and equality in exchange for helping them fight off the drakons, then the best of both sides would win.

Before you do that, you might just want to try to dig up one of the old wiki threads. I believe it has been discussed before.

Well, hopefully, you touch Melanchion's pillar first, that way you can just teleport back there. This was one of the saddest parts of the game, I think. You have to murder a lot of people to claim that tunnel for Avernum.

Hmm, if there were some peaceful endings and some tragic endings, that would basically be Jeff revealing which sides he believes are the better ones. My guess would be that each ending will have it's own problems, while still providing some satisfaction for those that believed in the faction whose ideology they won with. Of course, they can still always be the "you missed something important so you now you die and the world remains in chaos" endings.

Sorry Hydro! Hmm, weren't there plans for an actual Geneforge wiki at some point?

Ah, so you're assuming you have the tactical advantage of being far away while your drakons are closer to him. Seems a bit unfair, but then you would need that advantage, wouldn't you? If all things were equal and he could hit you off the bat, you might be in trouble. Then again, I'm a fan of shapers myself. I've just noticed how all the really hardcore players here seem to use agents, implying that they are the best out there. Edit: Oops, didn't see the second page, my comment was directed at Omen. Edit 2: Hydro, I think shapers are only the easiest because you can trick the AI into fighting the creations. To use a Warcraft analogy (because I know you like it ) in pvp players would skip the pets and go right for the hunter/warlock.

A human geneforge, of course, not another drakon one. Their geneforge seems a bit less effective than the original one anyway. Maybe a servile geneforge...

I'm jealous! Hmm, to get back on topic a bit... my least favorite creation would probably be the war trall. Not bad on it's own, but it was probably the least creative addition to the creation list. I like the lower tier creations better, battle alphas just seem like they should be more powerful than the tralls. Maybe if the trall had four arms and could hit twice as often... Edit: Typo.

They seem to just like picking on the newer members here.

Hmm, I don't play agents much, but could a skilled agent not daze the creations and dump all their offensive powers directly on the shaper? A PC would not concentrate on the drakons so much as an AI would, after all, if the shaper dies, it's over.

Originally Posted By: Gandalf the Purple Plus, there is a geneforge in every game, hence the series title Geneforge. Yes, though sometimes I wish the geneforge itself would take center stage again like it did in the first game.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl If you coddle people who post that kind of nonsense, you're only going to get more of the same. It was not nonsense. I saw a legitimate discussion on creation strength, using in-game statistics and experiences (same stuff like you were posting). The only difference between them and you was that they were very proud of what they had accomplished (when you can get excited about such things, it is a sign of a truly great game). I also found the discussion interesting, so yes, I will coddle them, because I would like more of the same.

A lot would depend on which one went first. Who put more points into quick action? And Thuryl, I think your posts have been consistently rude, you should be more considerate of others.

Well, only one of the above was able to start a Rebellion against their creators. Drakons are not only extremely powerful, but unlike other power creations such as the ones listed, they are able to organize effectively. Eyebeasts and Rotghroths and such tend to either hide in a cave or attack the whole world by themselves. The only other creation able to organize like a drakon would be serviles, but they are not nearly as powerful. Drakons are indeed the 'greatest' creation ever made.

I don't think anyone was denying that, Slarty. We were simply discussing whether canisters add new genes or modify existing ones. I was comparing regular forges (enchanted anvils) with Geneforges. Sorry for the confusion.