Emperor Tullegolar

They are much less aggressive than most rogue creations. Roamers, fyoras, and thahds often get bounties put on them because they like to attack civilians and farmland, most likely for food. Higher creations like drayks and will usually form communities due to their intelligence, sometimes reclusive, sometimes aggressice. But some just stake out a small bit of territory and generally don't bother people unless said territory is violated, rotghroths and glaaks are examples of this. By far the most agressive of all creations are the serviles. They form communities that are often banditry oriented or worse (the rebellion). They are devious and should never be trusted, they usually arm themselves and sometimes attack humans outright.

Quote: Originally written by Kyrek: Drew lives his life on the line trying to stop shaping. He wouldn't put so much at risk unless he really believed in what he was doing. The Nazis believed in what they were doing. Quote: Also, at the beginning the Trakos will only get rid of the worst of the shaping, which pretty much means the Rebels and the Shapers. They want to end shaping, and to do so, they will have to kill all those responsible, to do that, they will have to get people on their side by promising to bring justice to those who started the war. First the Shapers, then the Rebels, then the soldiers who supported either side, then rogue creations, then creations, is there no end to who they could blame for the war's attrocities? If these extremists win, there will be no end to the persecutions. No end to the calls for blood.

I forgot about that one talking Rotghroth. Well, it seems to be the exception, not the rule. They are still as dumb as the trash they live in. As for vlish, their psychic abilities are very limited. They can use it to communicate, which, while efficient, is not a sign of superior intelligence. They can also use their minds to disrupt opponents, but a common mage can do the same thing. They are not so tough.

Unfortunatly, no matter how much you cheat, you can not kill characters that are major parts of the storyline. Alwan, Greta, Miranda, and Crowley will not die until their destiny is upon them.

Quote: Retlaw May: A properly grown Rotghroth can speak and has basic reasoning skills. I can't remember ever speaking to one, where does it say they can talk? Quote: BLACK HAZE: the vlish,in certain areas I think there is a part where you feel thoughts or whatever going through you mind,and saying you are in the presence of a vlish. I think this is more due to the mental prowess of your chracter. Shapers tend to have significant mental powers when it comes to dealing with any kind of creation. Quote: Thuryl: That guy's also the most severely canister-addicted person you meet in the game; anything he has to say about creations is therefore suspect. You, my friend, have been brainwashed by Shaper propaganda. I could just as easily say that since he is addicted to canisters, he is seeing far more clearly than any of us and would thus have unique insight into creations.

Quote: Vicheron: Vlishes are probably the next most intelligent creations below Serviles. They're probably more intelligent than Battle Alphas and Thahds. They've been shown to have limited psychic abilities. They're also used to command other creations. They just can't talk. Plus Gazers/Eyebeasts are based on Vlishes. I don't think being psychic is a sign of intelligence, as strange as it may sound. Vlish rarely go rogue, they are probably too dumb to live on their own, they don't make use of their tentacled to use tools or anything like that. Gazers are certainly smarter than vlish, being basically an upgraded version of them. Drakons are obviously smarter, and drayks, too. I might even say Battle Alphas are smarter because it says they have basic reasoning skills, whil reasoning with a vlish seems impossible. You can calm a vlish because of it's phychic abilities but I think any animal would behave the same way if it had psychic abilities. Quote: BLACK HAZE: so,your first encounter with a Rotghroth is like,it jumps out of a pile of garbage or something? My first encounter with one was in a lab, where they were created. But yes, just about every subsequent encounter involved piles of garbage.

Needless to say, there are plenty of rogue rotghroths out there. But unlike other rogues, who terrorize towns and get bounties put on them, rotghroths prefer to hide in piles of rotting trash. To each his own, but I don't think they'll be getting around to world domination any time soon. As for their performance in battle, rather than base my analysis on actual battles in the game, which are skewed so that the player can win, I base it on the fact that rotghroths are not even in the final tier of creations anymore. Drakons, gazers, and war trall are all stronger by definition (though, admittedly, not necessarily in practice).

They will never be as strong or as smart as drakons. Drakons can shape, they are also fiercly independent. Rotghroths have only brute force (already made obsolete by the war trall) and pose little threat when seperated from their shaper masters. Gazers have a far better chance of overtaking drakons as the rebellion's leaders than rotghroths do.

Someone would need to make a rotghroth geneforge in order for that to happen. Who would do that? The Unbound would probably still be stronger, so there would be little point. An intelligent rotghroth might be scary. Reminds me of the intelligent deathclaw from Fallout 2.

Rotghroths came from Drypeak Vale. They were probably, like the drakon and gazer, invented by Barzahl as an upgraded version of the battle alpha. They are now fairly common and even legal as far as the Shapers are concerned. Their skins slowly rots off probably due to it being covered in acid. It grows back fast enough though, so it's not like it kills them. The default rotgroth does not decay, but in Geneforge 4 the upgraded version, the corrupting rotghroth, is indeed a temporary creation. They are very stupid (incapable of communication) and the biggest threat they pose on their own is when they claim a pile of garbage as their own and defend it, sometimes in groups.

Don't worry, they will still let you work for them even if you use canisters, they have to. All that will change is the ending.

Quote: Originally written by Dark Lights: I WILL post the full completed editor once it's finished but until then, it won't be complete. Just be sure not to post the whole thing here in a an actual post. It messes it up somehow. Host it on some other website or get someone to host it for you and then link to it here.

Quote: Originally written by Alorael: Just a minor point, but what exactly is an "epic" battle? I think that's why I brought up unique enemies. Since I cheat, the only way I can distinguish battles from one another is by who I'm fighting. An epic battle for me is not one against a powerful monster, but one against an actual character, even something as simple as a name will do. The better I know them, the more of a pleasure it is to destroy them. That's epic for me.

Is it moral for a Trakovite to unleash any kind of destruction on his enemies? Isn't the whole point of being one of them to not destroy things?

I think the thing I liked most about Avernum 4 was that there were lots of unique bosses. I love named enemies, there should be lots of them in future games. Expecially ones that don't have a quest that goes with them, like that one nephil with the spear early in the game. Sort of like optional bosses, and they can drop special items. That would be cool.

Go to the Western Morass. Follow a path through the swamps leading North, and you will find a trapdoor leading down to the workshop. I'm not sure, but I think you need to talk Matala into opening the door to the canister first, otherwise it is locked. Then you can kill her afterwards.

Quote: Originally written by Shine123: Is it possible to just PLAY the game without spending a few hours figuring out various characters and politics? There are plenty of threads here with stratagies and statistics and other nonsense, feel free to look at those. To all you Trakovites turned Shapers, is it not cowardly to walk the line between supporting creation rights and limiting shaping, and then when the going gets tough abandon the creations in favor of conservative Shaperism? What good is any ideal unless you are willing to fight for it? How can there be progress in either direction if whenever shaping gets a bit out of hand, you run back to the Shapers to feel safe? What if we stepped outside the game and assumed there was a Trakovite faction with some strength. They would fight for creation rights and limiting shaping. However, they would also execute all Shapers and drakon shapers that they got their hands on. Would you fight with them?

Quote: Originally written by GivingPerformer: We'll see what happens when she makes her excuses; maybe her pathos will arouse my sense of pity (NOT). One great thing about Rentar is that she makes no excuses. She doesn't have to, she is doing what she believes is right. It is up to the player to understand this and forgive her for it. When they do, Rentar honorably accepts the defeat, and is willing to surrender unconditionally. She loves her people so much, she is willing to swallow her pride for them. Why most people interpret this as 'mindless hate villain' I'll never understand.

Rebel scum can clear it by entering from the other side. Go the long way around and approach it from Khima-Uss. That will clear it.

The Shaper Camp can never be cleared out. There are a few creations that will keep spawning forever, though you can kill the guards and shapers and they will not come back. Turabi Gate is the same way. Troops will come at you infinitly but only if they are alerted by one of the patroling guards. The patroling guards will come back when you leave the area but the shapers and creations by the gate will not, so if you sneak in and kill them that's as good as it gets. Don't feel bad if you can't do either area, if you're not cheating you may have to come back and do them later. You will want to, since there are some good items. As for the actual Turabi Gate gate, you can't go through it, ever.. The same goes for the gates at Western Morass, which you will visit much later. They lead to Shaper lands, which are not part of this game.

I've noticed that most Spiderwebbers like to consider themselves Trakovites, however, when given the choice between the Rebellion and the Shapers, they side with the Shapers. I can only conclude from this that most Spiderwebbers fear shaping more than they care about creation rights. Anyone care to make a defense for this rather pitiful position?

It's strange because I always thought Jeff sympathized with the Awakened, given that they were the most moderate and easiest to sympathize with in the first two games. But then they were gone... I was going to say that now Jeff sympathized with the rebels, the human rebels like Greta, not the drakons, because they are the ones truely struggling for a cause they beleive in. Then I realized you left out the Trakovites. Jeff is clearly a Trakovite. He is writing the games to make shaping look bad, and he is succeeding. People hesitate to side with either the Shapers or the Rebels, because both seem to have more flaws than good points. He made the Trakovites seems life a noble moderate sect that wanted to save the world when really they are just terrorists who will doom it. He is favoring these radicals but by making them a 'hidden sect' it is not so obvious.

You only die in the end if you get the Shaper ending but also murder Lord Rahul or Khyryk.

Quote: Originally written by Slarty: Creation rights (least to most supportive): ... (halfway point) * Trakovites -- Peace and equality * Awakened (Ellhrah) -- Peace and equality * Trajkov -- Equality * Takers (Gnorrel) -- Freedom at any cost * Rebels (Greta, Litalia) -- Freedom at any cost, destroy Shapers * Rebels (Akhari Blaze) -- Drakons dominate (and support?) other creations, destroy Shapers I would actually switch the Rebels under Akhari Blaze (or better yet, Ghaldring) with the Awakened. The Awakened support creation rights the most, to the point of wanting to cut themselves off from the rest of the world just so they can live normal lives. Ghaldring, on the other hand, is willing to treat other creations like crap in order to accomplish his more politically oriented goals (land, power, revenge). I think he is a lot less interested in creation rights than he would have you believe. That is... assuming he ever even claimed to be interested in them at all.

Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: At this point, I am planning for Geneforge 5 to be the last game in the main story arc. Oh, I always thought you were going for a double trillogy, George Lucas style. No matter, you're already way cooler than George Lucas because he would never comment or anything in a Star Wars forum. I probably put self-shaping as one of the axes because of personal bias. I think it's an important issue, and cleary, as you can see by the visuals, those of us that support excessive shaping and still hate creations are underrepresented. I still think the Shapers should be placed lower on the 'shaping' axis than they are in Actaeon's graph simply because they are one of the most restrictive sects relatively speaking.