Emperor Tullegolar

I don't understand why Delicious Vlish locked the topic on creation appearances, something I probably could have worked with, but he's perfectly fine with letting garbage like this continue.

To answer Acidic's question: the skill to create a drakon can not be learned. In every game that has them, you have to learn it from a canister. I assume that means that controlling a drakon is too difficult for a normal person, so you have to be shaped to do it. That means Shapers can never make drakons.

Mt biggest problem with the artifacts is that you can't make them all. Sure, you can make two cloaks and two different leggings, but then you have to choose whether you want a belt or boots. I'm pretty obsessive compulsive about things like this. Plus, since I cheat, I have no sense of which ones are the best, so I have a difficult time deciding which ones to make. Then you'll have an artifact component left over... for nothing. As for the cloaks, vahnatai cloaks come to mind. They apparently have to be pounded to make them properly. I figure in the case of the artifact cloaks you're pounding the ingredients into them.

I can't help but think it would have been less work to just go get the quest from the mayor and then hand it in right away.

Usually the instructions are a bit more detailed than that. Artifact instructions tend to say things like 'prepare this ingredient by grinding it up andmixing it with this one, then apply it to the final one.' I think they make sense, and they're fun, too. If you'd prefer it were like the other Geneforeges and you'd have to take the items to and expert, I'd be fine with that, too. But nothing is fun about secret doors. I don't understand why you say you don't like missing things when it comes to crafting but you're fine with secret doors, at least one of which you haven't found until just now. Imagine all the other things you may have missed, and may never find.

There was one poison canister in Geneforge 2. For some reason, the idea never caught on. It didn't do anything permanent, just some damage, but it shouldn't be too hard to make conisters with more harmful effects. Just look at what a drakon geneforge does to a human. It would certainly be an efficient and cruel way for the Shapers to deal with their enemies, but, being a canister advocate, I'm glad they havn't figured it out yet.

Seeing as the whole point of being an Unbound is to be unbound, it just wouldn't make sense if you could shape them. Their whole purpose in life is to be an uncontrollable chaos machine. Besides, they look stupid anyway, ur-drakons are better.

I like the Avernum 4 alchemy system. After all, why should your adventureres be able to do everything on their own? Sages are already going out of business now that items identify themselves, lets not screw over the alchemists too. Quote: Originally written by Nikki: I hate it in GF, mainly because I think I'm missing out on something... Are you a secret doors advocate? Because those make me feel like I'm missing out on something. At least you can always cheat and find recipes in the hintbook or on these boards.

There are more than enough to make all the artifacts. You don't need that many.

You have to, no choice. Without it, you're a nobody anyway. You're justification, no matter what your beliefs are, is probably that you use it to survive. Unless you're really insidious, and you're just using it to get close to them so you can betray them later, which is what I told myself.

Exactly! I didn't do it for money, either. I did it because I wanted to smash everything that slimey creation Ghaldring ever stood for. I did it to see the look on Greta's face when I stuck the sword in her treasonous back. But above all, I did it in the name of peace. And order.

The drakons (the Rebellion) treat their creations just as poorly as the Shapers do. The Shapers only want to keep the world from falling into the chaos and anarchy that it would be in under the Rebellion.

Between those that play these games only for the combat and those like Alorael who don't seem to know the meaning of the word battle, I'm going to have to agree with Synergy on this one.

Quote: —Alorael, who doesn't actually think Avernum has any truly exciting and necessary battles. A4 started making fights more interesting, but before that there really just isn't much. The Ziggurat, the troglos and giants, and Rentar are huge battles, but otherwise they're nothing but more hack and slash. Bashing the whole series at once to disprove my points isn't proving how Avernum 2 is the best. I still don't understand what you see in it.

Quote: Originally written by Alorael: three crystal souls you aren't supposed to kill I think these were the hardest fight ever. I actually had to save, edit my characters back to health, and reload a few times for this one. Quote: Most of the fights aren't too exciting, really. Well, that's kind of harsh. I don't even think you believe that. What makes you say this? The Garzahd fights were some of the worst in the series. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the man and his work, but he had a crappy final battle compared to Rentar and even Hawthorne. His whole final fortress was boring, too. Limoncelli was pretty cool, but mostly because of the little description boxes that came up describing what he looked like and how he died. Avernum 3 had the Tower of Zkal (not only an awesome dungeon but a real challenge for those masochists out there), that one drake's castle, and lets not forget the Monestary of Madness (you know you love it).

Randomizer: I didn't say he controled all those creations. But still, creating them must require incredible power. Plus, he created the Titan as well. He's definitly learned a lot over the years, and not just from ordinary sources. I agree with Dikiyoba, we can't look at any single ending as canon, even the ones that 'happened.'

No.

Quote: Originally written by Nikki: Epic battles? Like the Zigguraut in A2 - the biggest battle in ANY Avernum game, and probably the biggest fight Jeff's coded? I don't consider a battle epic just because you are having hordes and hordes of foot soldiers thrown at you. I mean epic boss battles. You guys talk about atmosphere, how about the Rentar/Erika duel, in which your measly characters were powerless, your only goal to survive long enough to reach that panel. I also thought the alien slime was cool, despite not being particularly difficult. Quote: Cool Dungeons? Like the Halls of Choas? Or the Zigguraut again? Or any of the Empire forts where the Crystal souls were? I already admited the Empire Forts were cool (none of them were in Dark Waters) but I still think Avernum 3's dungeons are superior. The Filth Factory is my personal favorite, but how about all those artifact dungeons. I'll admit Avernum 3 loses points for not having the Tower of Shifting Floors, but still. Quote: And the fact you didn't win the war single-handedly was much more realistic than 4 people entirely destoying a Vahnatai war machine. But you did win the war single-handedly, without Gharzad and that portal, the Empire was hurting. And I thought you liked underdog stories? Weren't you intimidated by the fact that you had to accuse not one, but three of the most powerful being in the world of making the mosters? Crossing that bridge to see the legendary Erika only to accuse her of a crime, or wading through lava to meet the most powerful of dragons, knowing you're about to piss her off, that's atmosphere. Edit: Really, the 'Vahnatai war machine" was pretty much just Rentar and a couple of friends (whom you quickly dispatched). That's why I liked Avernum 4 so much, too. You had the feeling when you met her that she was really lonely, no one was helping her, and she was hurt by that. You beat her because she was one mage, powerful, but still one mage.

Litalia used canisters, but avoided the pure mind effect. Hodge dies, but only if you kill him. I appreciate the chance to flaunt my Geneforge lore knowledge, but you really should play the games, it's more fun to find these things out that way.

There was nothing wrong with Master Hodge. As he used more and more canisters, he became more magically powerful and thus had less and less need for his body. As a result, he sort of started to fall apart... but it should be noted that this happens very rarely. Usually, canister users' features are uneffected or they can even improve as an aura of authority grows around them. As for Litalia, she refused the clarity of the canisters, choosing instead to cloud her own mind to avoid outbursts (which would be inevitable since she surrounds herself with the weak), thus making her aloof and distant, even more so than usual.

Why? Who says Monarch didn't use a geneforge? The man is impossibly powerful, sending creations through, what, five different zones? You were probably only able to beat him because he would be totally exhausted from his unending campaign to make all those creations. I'd say this is only more evidence that he is the PC, who else could gain that much power unnoticed?

Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: Dark Waters was a challenge in exploring while being cut off from help. Oh, I get it now. This is one of those "it's better because it's more difficult" deals. Figures. I suppose if you prefer things like that to epic battles, cool dungeons, and mystery plot then Avernum 2 is the way to go.

Maybe. He would have to have some serious funding to get the nessesary puresteel and crystals. But I suppose it is possible since he appears to have sold off all the equipment he got from his adventures.

Monarch makes canisters?

What is this 'flavor' you speak of? What makes it different from any other part of the game? Of course Avernum 3 was full of generic towns, it took place in the Empire! It made perfect sense, after all, if you tried to by anything more than 'Weaponsmith' you ran the risk of being thrown into Avernum. I think the blandness added as much to the atmosphere, if not more, than losing your food (which was much better in Nethergate than either Avernum or Exile anyway).