Emperor Tullegolar

Try this one first. Quote: Anyone can use canisters, the fact that the Shapers are doing so well in the war without using them is a testament to human superiority. As for my other reasonings, they may be opinions (logically reasonable ones) but at least they aren't factually untrue (like drakon have innate shaping abilites and there not being any mention of shaper art).

Damn it, you couldn't have posted that when I asked about it a few posts ago? Oh, well. Just imagine another continent to the South or possibly West. North is unlikely since that is where the Ashen Isles are and East is unlikely because then they would have to pass Sucia to travel between the two. Does anyone have the exact "Western Sea" text? Hmm... what if the world is round?

Quote: Originally written by Waylander: You're just making the same baseless assumptions, without providing a jot of evidence. Just because you've ignored it doesn't mean that there hasn't been plenty of evidence mentioned already. Read the thread again, I don't feel like repeating myself.

I apologize for this image's condition, imageshack likes to butcher them when I choose the resize option. Anyway... does this seem at all plausible?

Quote: Originally written by Stillness: not all drakons suffer from the same extreme pride that gives some of them a warped view of things Yes they do.

Or how about more penaties for having non-human characters? There were a few instances in the other games, especially Avernum 3, where you would be atttacked by an otherwise friendly group of soldiers because you had a nephil or slith in your party. There should be more of those. Really dramatic ones, like townspeople won't sell to you or you can't get certain quests. It would work extra well for vahnatai, since anti-vahnataism should be at an all time high right about now.

I shall now analyse the results. Agent Miranda has an insurmountable lead on everyone else, claiming almost half of all votes. This is probably a result of the fact that most people sympathize with the Shaper cause, and Miranda was the most active female character with this alignment in the series. Lady Anjali is in second, also a Shaper. I voted for her myself because she was smart, powerful, sweet, conservative, and royalty. Litalia did not claim as many votes as I expected (8%). Very strange. I also expected more people to vote Shanti (11%), since she came as close as anyone ever did to an intimate relationship with the PC, other than Greta (whom I accidentally left out of the poll). Conclusion: the Shapers have more attractive women than the Rebellion. Sharon got more than expected. I always imagined her as being older. I suppose she must be a cougar . I put Matala in their as sort of an idiot filter. More went for her than did for all the serviles combined. Most disturbingly of all, however, was that Danette did not manage to curry a single vote! This woman invented the canisters and the geneforge itself, and she gets no love? Disgraceful.

Why does everyone like Aimee? She didn't even do much. The only reason I would want to see her again would be for closure (horrible death). Kelner is great, though. I like that we got to see him go from silent apprentice to the powerful wizard he is today.

Quote: Originally written by Slarty: Sucia Island, while in the middle of the ocean, is described as being not too far from Dillame (yes, Dillame is mentioned in G1). Really? That's strange. If the Sholai lands are West of Sucia, but Sucia is East of Terrestia (it would have to be in order to be near Dillame) then wouldn't that mean Trajkov would have to pass Terrestia in order to get to Sucia? Great, I feel like one of those nerds that over-analyses Star Trek or something.

Anyone can use canisters, the fact that the Shapers are doing so well in the war without using them is a testament to human superiority. Oh, and I just realized Waylander said drakons have an innate shaping ability. This is not true. They have the ability to be able to learn to shape (something other creations don't have) but that doesn't mean they can all shape, they have to either learn or use canisters like everyone else, well, except spawners, are they superior beings?

Superior beings make time for art even in times of war. Barzahl did.

It forces people to make the sacrifice for true power. Your unwillingness to make that sacrifice reveals your weakness.

Alright Waylander, I guess this isn't a real discussion anymore. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? What you're saying is like someone saying "oh, well, just because monkeys have never written an award winning novel doesn't mean they aren't capable, that's just your opinion." Please, is that the best you can do? I have based all my arguments on what I have encountered in the games, nothing more, nothing less. You wouldn't happen to have any game related evidence yourself, would you? Edit: Oh, and yes, there was a mention of Shaper art in Geneforge I.

I'm pretty sure it was just one continent, where did you hear two?

Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: I can think of a third option, although it changes the canister system almost as radically as #2: make all canisters interchangeable. Rather than picking a canister effect at random and being saddled with something useless like a level of Create Thahd, you'd always get Create Thahd from the first canister you picked up, Searer from the second canister, and so on and so forth. You have to keep using the early, less useful canisters because it's the only way to get to the good stuff. At first I thought this conflicted with game canon, which says the canister maker places one specific ability into each canister, but you could just say something like "oh, that canister had create thahd in it the whole time" even though it didn't. Whatever, good idea. It gets my Emperor's Seal of Approval®, mostly because it makes it more difficult to resist delicious canisters.

Waylander, you misunderstand, it's not the fact that drakons can't make humans that makes them inferior, it's the fact that no one can make humans. A human is a complex being, capable of much adaptation, personality, emotion, pursuits, you name it. Drakons were made to be killing machines, it is their entire teleology. They can never know things like philisophy, art... love. If I believed in souls, I would say with certainty that drakons have none. If humans win this war, they will continue to grow and evolve in a time of peace. Can you say the same for the drakons? Can they really know anything other than destruction? They will turn on their fellow creation, no doubt, then probably each other, until the world is a smouldering ruin. I'll admit they are superior when it comes to destruction, but when it comes to creation, humans are the superior being. And creation is everything.

Quote: Originally written by Waylander: You seemed to imply that Shaped humans being able to create Drakons somehow made them superior to Drakons. It does. Not because drakons can also create drakons, but because drakons can not create humans.

When did I say that?

Haha, no. But Tullegolar, a drakon can beat a human in a fight. Yeah, well, a polar bear can, too, but who's destroying who's habitat? Drakons don't scare me, they're too busy fighting amongst themselves anyway. They're more arrogant as well, but with less reason to be so. Drakons seems more powerful because they shape themselves. When humans shape themselves, they're even better. They like to do things like... I don't know... create drakons to serve them. Also, for those suckers out there who claim compassion makes a superior being, drakons are not capable of compassion, so there's another point for humans.

Ew, Awakened. I prefer my seviles obeying my every command, if you catch my drift.

Quote: Originally written by Alorael: No politics, no gender, no species, and no failure to have actually played the games in which Akhari Blaze appears should be no barrier to love. I was going to crop this into "no species... should be a barrier to love" and make fun of you, but then I realized your double negative ruined everything.

Quote: Originally written by still complaining: If you were going to list drakons you could at least have put Salassar on there. Yeah right, that guy was really just a plot device for developing Ghaldring.

I could have sworn I put Greta on there. I must have unconsciously left her out for being rebel scum.

Micawber was kind enough to host mine. He probably wouldn't mind hosting a better one. His email is on the page where my editor is found.

Quote: Originally written by always has to complain about something: Also, Matala gets referred to as "he" several times, and therefore belongs (if anywhere) on the male poll. Ha ha, Sarasaphilia voted for a guy!