Hyena of Ice

Well, yeah, you're absolutely right. When I said that, I was thinking more along the line of "look forward to" Sorry to hear about your difficulties, man. You're lucky that you CAN stop yourself. Me, I generally can't, because I obsess over whatever is seriously bothering me. Oh, and when upset, angry, or agitated, I suffer from paranoid delusions and maladaptive assumption (no matter what evidence is presented to me, I find some way to spin it negatively. E.g. if presented with undeniable proof that someone cares about me while I'm having delusions that they don't-- I then become certain that they're only pretending to care). I also have a rather vivid imagination with no off switch-- these three things do NOT make for a healthy combination, believe me. Luckily, I'm a completely different person when upset, so normally I don't suffer from any of those problems sans the vivid imagination.

There are people way older than you working way harder (seriously, he should follow my 64 year old dad around for a week, who still works full time and who doesn't work from home at his computer all day). I'm 10 years younger than him and am depressed about how old I am-- have been since age 21. Maybe, just throwing this out, but maybe Vogel is like me, in that he has a near phobia of aging. My mom and dad both had me in their 30's, and are the youngest of many siblings (5 on my mom's side, 7 on my dad's) So I spent most of my childhood and young-adult life watching almost everyone around me suffer from the wracks of aging. I already notice that I have exponentially less energy than I did when I was 25, and it gets worse every year-- compound this with mental problems, and I have trouble going out and doing stuff. Oh, and having peterpan syndrome doesn't help. Adulthood sucks unless you had an abusive childhood. So seriously, give him some slack. Jeff is also at the right age for mid-life crisis.

Avernum as a whole is not anywhere near Empire, Shaper, or even Pact power Indeed. While it is certainly true that the average Avernite is a lot stronger and more skilled in combat than the average surface-dweller, the flipside is that Avernum is basically frontier land, even by Valorim standards (compare the space between and number of settlements bet. the original A2 and A3). Almaria, the most populated city, is basically like a medium-sized town to the surface In addition, Avernum suffers from a severe shortage in certain important resources, such as ferrous metals. Which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, to be honest. You have large volcanic zones-- those would be full of iron ore. Not to mention that the mantle is made mostly of nickel iron, which Avernum just so happens to be situated a LOT closer to than the surface.

Item 301 is the number for the ring. In order to turn it into an enemy drop, then go to a nearby area with a hostile enemy that you haven't killed yet, preferrably one that is not in a group, or of which only a single specimen exists in the zone. Make a mental note of that enemy. Now exit the game. MAKE SURE YOU CREATE A BACKUP FILE OF THE Gforscen txt FILE BEFORE PROCEEDING!!! Note that you may want to create a second copy of the file in Documents or some other non-system file folder, as sometimes saving or overwriting a file in Program Files can turn the file invisible. Anyhow, open that second copy of Gforscen txt in Notepad+ or some similar text reading app other than Notepad. Now, Ctrl + F, and type the name of that monster into the search. If there are no "get item number" :"or get item chance" entries for that enemy, then paste this ONE ROW below the first paragraph of information (likely to end with something like "sound when slain", "default script", "default strategy", or "graphic coloradj") cr_start_item 0 = 301; cr_start_item_chance 0 = 100; IMPORTANT: Make sure that there is one space/row that separates the "get item/item chance" from the stuff above and below. For example (I am using an Avernum 6 entry as an example because that is the file I have open at the moment) begindefinecreature 10; import = 9; cr_name = "Townsman"; cr_graphic_template = 81; cr_max_health = 25; cr_base_level = 3; cr_default_attitude = 2; cr_sound_when_slain = 127; cr_start_item 0 = 2; cr_start_item_chance 0 = 40; cr_start_item 1 = 61; cr_start_item_chance 1 = 40; cr_abil_num 0 = 0; // punch attack cr_abil_step_of_launch 0 = 3; Notice that an empty space/line/row separates the item drop information from the data above it ("sound when slain") and another separates the ability data below it. Make sure those spaces are there. Once you have done this, save the file. Now exit Notepad+ or whatever, and move the Gforscen txt file back into the Geneforge 2 folder. Fire up Geneforge 2. Enter the zone where the enemy that you want to kill is (if you saved your game in this zone, then you need to leave and return. Otherwise, the information on that enemy's item drops will be the same as it was when you saved the game, before you changed the text file) Kill the monster. It WILL drop the ring (we gave it a 100% drop rate) Save your game, then exit Geneforge 2. Now, move your Gforscen txt backup file to the Geneforge 2 scripts folder. You're done! I realize that this may look daunting, but it's a lot easier than it sounds. On a similar note, at some point I hope to make a thread guide/how-to to editing the script.

I think it's fair to take both the Empire and the Shapers at their fighting peak and restrict the fighting to just those two participants, Violence Island-style.So, the Empire doesn't have to worry about Avernum or Darkside Loyalists or Vahnatai, and the Shapers have the full creation roster at their disposal. No, they wouldn't. They were at their peak pre-G3, so they wouldn't have any kyshakks or wingbolts. Unless you are speaking purely power-wise without consideration of manpower-- in which case we have no way of determining that since we know nothing of any possible magical or technological advancements on the surface after A3. Another rule I think we should adhere to: When it comes to magic, we should limit it to story/plot-wise magic/power, and not game mechanics. One of the exceptions of course being encounters/battle formations/units/etc. That and the availability of bows/arrows in the Geneforge world (they are replaced with the superior but more resource-intensive batons. I say superior because story-wise, they appear to be used, and have similar properties to handguns/bullets.) In comparison, I would not use the lack of polearms in the Geneforge world as an argument (helmets don't exist as items, either, but we are plainly told that characters do wear helmets, and it's also shown in the art)

It's not just that The Pact is weaker. Their infighting and lack of unity is a MAJOR factor as well, that I think perhaps you aren't taking into consideration. (unless you are including disunity in your "weaker" label). No offense. You have an entire province full of rebels, just for starters. Whereas both the Shapers and the Empire are a unified, cohesive, well-coordinated group. Too much disunity, too many people who hate Redbeard, who, despite the Empire's brutality, would see the invasion as an opportunity to get rid of Redbeard once and for all, or for a power grab/fame/etc. (or both) if they cooperate with The Empire. One of The Pact's best assets is the dragon(s), who aren't exactly going to tolerate an invasion by an empire whose goal is to extirpate them. Eventually they'll join in active combat. While this would make a considerable difference, the dragon(s) won't be nearly enough to repel The Empire-- for one, they probably wouldn't join the battle until it's already too late. Second, they would become victims to The Pact's disunity just like Redbeard-- along with those who covet his treasure. Not counting a mass-nuking of the entire country (Which the Shapers would likely even be able to manipulate to their advantage via charged creations and the like) No way. The Shapers don't have that level of destructive power, shaping or spell-wise. They do have the technology to unleash an armageddon of toxic and caustic gas, particles, and chemicals, however. (Though this would require the laborious building of a resource-intensive installation *purification plant* on the Avadnian continent) The Empire, however, does have the ability to do this (as do the Avernites), but this would require the same-- in addition to all of that magic being detectable from miles away.

The Empire vs. The Pact: The Empire. Don't get me wrong, I think there would be a good fight, but I also think the Empire would completely overwhelm the pact. There's just too many of them. The only chance the pact would have, I think, would be getting a portal pylon (I believe that's what they're called in the Avadon games, it's been a bit since I've played them) literally directly inside of the current leader of the Empire. It seems too implausible. Not impossible maybe, but very, very implausible. I can't picture The Pact putting up THAT much of a fight. In addition to being a single continent, there is too much infighting and division among nations. Too many individuals, clans, families, brigands, etc. would be willing to assist The Empire. Also, maybe I'm wrong, but can the mages of Avadon actually create a portal that takes them half-way around the world? Because that is essentially what would be required, here. Unless Avadon is a Pangaea/Panthalassa, it consists only of one continent. If the Pact up and out of nowhere decided to attack the Shapers, they would be decimated. Destroyed. Blasted and burned and melted and electrocuted. No disagreement, there. On the other hand, if the Shapers decided to attack the Pact, they may have a chance to retaliate. The Pact has, quite possibly, the most knowledge of portal and transportation magic. If they could transport assassins into a few major Shaper strongholds, the Shapers would be left leaderless and confused. Again, can they create a portal that reaches all the way to the other side of the planet? Shapers would still decimate The Pact. The Pact is much too divided. I cannot emphasize this enough. Too many people would either go neutral or look for some strategic way to get the Shapers to kill Redbeard with minimal damage to Avadon's civilization. On top of that, you have an entire province of rebels. Rebels with a vendetta/Blood Feud against The Pact. Rebels are a different story, though. In the case of the Rebels vs. the Pact, I have a feeling that the nations of the Pact would, quite literally, be razed to the ground, regardless of who attacked who first. The drakons would unleash maybe a score of Unbound, spread across the continent, and, barring any miracles, the Unbound would do their work astonishingly well. Prettymuch goes for any side, regardless of any and all circumstances. OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH EVEN WORSE. IF (and that's a massive if) the Unbound have any problems with an expedient takeover, they could get their hands on Empire/Avernite necromancy, so any that are killed... Man, Unbound Shades, wouldn't that be a nightmare. An Unbound Lich? Forget about it, the world is over (and they definitely WOULD get their hands on Empire/Avernite necromancy once they decimate it) The Empire has serious competency issues. In E3, for example, each of the 5 monster plagues was being mishandled badly until the Surface Explorers turned up. The Dervish in Kriszan wasn't mch concerned with the Slimes, the Anama in Shayder were sorta on the ball, but were busy dealing with the symptom and had alienated all the wizards, including the one whose help is needed to deal with the cause. You have to bribe an official in Sharimik to get the Troglodyte mission. They've got a successful Empire general fighting the golems, only the officials in Gale won't have anything to do with him and just hide in their city. This is not an entirely fair assessment. The plagues occurred in Valorim, which is frontier land with a limited number of Imperial soldiers. We're more or less told (not in exact terms) that the Empire is stretched, incompetent, and indifferent on Valorim, which makes it an easy place for free spirits to live in (relatively speaking, of course), and even mages can study in peace, without government approval, in out-of-the-way places. (Had this not been true, then the story of A3 would have ended very early) Granted, I have only played the Demo (won't be getting the first trilogy until Christmas, probably) so I only know of the Slime and Roach ones. Krizsan had the needed scouts, but the Slime Pit was hidden in the mountains (behind a fake wall, game wise). It's possible (if not likely) story-wise, that the Avernite scouts were only able to find The Slime Pits due to their familiarity with caverns. Of course, you can also find The Slime Pits via the directions of that mage in the Amber Tower. The bandits were not a high priority for the scouts nor the Imperial soldier commanding them (and then there was that useless imperial soldier at the bar) In the case of the roaches, they lacked the manpower needed to scout for the Filth Factory-- the sickness had overwhelmed them (in a way, it was a good thing-- illness was the only thing preventing the imperial soldiers of Bigail from killing the Avernites on the spot) Also, while working on the up-and-comping bullet-point comparison, I realized something with quite nasty potential. In order to make crystal spirals, as well as shaped and puresteel metals, the Shapers need to purify them in chemical plants with highly toxic persistent environmental pollutants (likely culprits including arsenic and mercury, along with other heavy metals and caustic chemicals) Disposal is a serious issue in the series-- we see poorly ventilated areas with stacked, leaking drums all the time. Finally, these plants (at least in G1 and 3) are built over/next to rivers. There is some serious potential here for sabotage. We see in G1 just how devastating a leak can be (though in this case it was more like a meltdown) Considering that the plants seem to be located in inland locations close to rich mineral sources, upriver, and considering that large towns and cities are typically located at or near the mouths of rivers... Well, you see where I'm going with this. Handling of this toxic material over long distances would not be necessary due to the reasons I listed. You could also have someone sabotage the plant, with G1-level devastating results (this would require a lot of planning mind you-- the staff at the plant would have to be stretched thin, for one) I'm working on a bullet-point run-down of the advantages vs disadvantages on the Empire and Shaper side, BTW.

In all likelihood you either dropped it in a region that has like 200+ items on it, or you dropped it behind a tree/wall or something so that it's no longer visible. So ctrl + G everywhere. If that fails, then you can try to edit the Gforscen txt file under Scripts. Look up the number for "infiltrator's ring", then change the "get item number" number to that of the infiltrator's ring, for a monster you are about to fight, and up the "get item chance" to 100.

The end result will likely have the Empire losing the battle for a couple reasons. One: The Shapers have a STRONG ranged advantage. The Empire's forces would need to charge into melee range to take out the Shapers, and during that charge they're being pelted by fields of lightning from the Kyshaaks, magical bolts from the Wingbolts, and stones from the Tralls. Doesn't the average Empire unit encounter typically contain something like 2 to 4 melee fighters, 1 or 2 archers, 1 priest, and 1 mage? (I'm not even talking about the ones with dervishes, just the average unit you encounter in the demo, alone) The Empire has more ranged strength than you are remembering, unless I am the one who is misremembering and simply thinking of brigands. I know the most basic unit has at least one powerful mage, though. At the end of the day, the Empire will have lost hundereds of men, if not thousands in a particularly large fight. The Shapers, meanwhile, will have losses in the dozens, if that much. When it comes to straight up battles like this, the Shapers have a massive edge due to their ranged superiority, magical strength, and ability to release reserves with great speed. In other words, percentage-wise, the losses are about tied-- as far as forces, there are probably 10 to 20 times more empire soldiers than there are Shapers + outsider soldiers. I don't understand why I have to keep emphasizing this. The Empire spans an entire planet, with partial exception to Valorim. AN ENTIRE PLANET. The Shapers only span a single continent + a few tiny islands. Even with a (very likely) Sholai alliance, that probably wouldn't make up more than two thirds of the planet-- and the Geneforge world is sparsely populated compared to the Empire. Second, on the question of the Empire's population. Of course, we don't know anything for sure. However, we do know that two of the continents (Vantanas and Valorim) are relatively less settled, Valorim is not just "less settled". It is described as "frontier land". And correct me if I'm wrong, but Valorim is at least as populated as Terrestria, if not moreso, isn't it?

If you want to hoard journal entries in any game excepting the original A1~3 and Nethergate, without worrying about filling it up, then just go to Programfiles x86, then whatever folder you DLed the game to. Go to data~scripts and then open up the files that end in "dlg". It has all the convos saved there. It requires some editing/formatting, but you can copy/paste everything to a word doc and save it there. That's what I've done with all of the Alwan & Greta G3 dialogue for my fic that I'm writing (Diwaniya, Celeste, Mooney, and Norrell, as well, since they make appearances in some chapters) The size limit has to do with 8-digit binary, which is common to a lot of stuff in programming, esp. older programming. In 8-digit binary, there is a max of 256 in anything (numeric range 0~255) The 24 bit RGB color space is just one of countless examples. While there are far more than 256 colors, the maximum value for red, green, blue, hue, value, or saturation is 255, with the lowest number being 0 (thus, 256 in total) I am doubtful that Jeff could fix this, as in all likelihood, his game engine is based on 8-bit binary. Maybe it's possible that he could find some way to double the possible entries to 510 or 512 or something, but he would have to find a way around the "reset/wrap around to zero" bug associated with it.L Lilith: Is that the email I would use if I wanted to mention the Sholai series idea to Jeff?

Have all the Slith and Nephil groups met the Empire, though? I had thought they were a collection of separate and fairly isolated groups. All of the Nephil have. They are not indigenous to Avernum-- all are exiles or descendents of exiles from the surface-- the few lucky ones (or unlucky, depending on your PoV) not to be exterminated by the Empire on the surface. We are told time and time again in the games that the Nephil remember these crimes, or the story was passed down generations. The savage Nephil blame (and hate) all humans for what the Empire did to them. Considering their hatred of Avernites, what do you think will happen when they actually run into Empire soldiers? No, the Empire would find no allies among the Nephil, save the ultra-rare leader, shaman, or brigand who sells his soul (figuratively) for some magical trinkets. There is no possible way that the Empire would be able to enlist the help of more than a scant few tribes (enough to count on a single hand) The only way what you propose would work is via false flag attacks (a false flag attack is when one group-- e.g. a gang, military, or organization, commits a crime and frames another group. In this case, the Empire would kill some savage Nephil and make it look like the Avernites did it) It is unlikely that the Empire could play their cards right with the civilized or even savage Slith, but as I've only played the 1~3 demos, I could easily be wrong. Their freak-out over encountering the Slith for the first time (as they are indigenous to Avernum) would create a rather poor impression on the tribes, and result in a blood feud. Granted, as with the Nephil, you would have a scant few who would sell their souls for some goodies. I can picture an alliance with a few Slith tribes much more easily than I can picture an alliance with savage Nephil, however. Hell, I have no idea how those rogue Vahnatai even managed to approach/negotiate with the Imperial soldiers before being gutted on the spot.

It is incorrect to say that the whole thing hinged on merely the Avernum's knowledge of the cave system, while an important factor, it is abundantly clear from the entirety of A2 that the Empire did have a big problem teleporting troops down. That's what they were trying to fix with massive teleporter. As I've only played the demos, I did not know that. As an aside, how secure was Avernum against local problems like hostile sliths/hephils et all at the time? If the Empire was smarter and better informed, it could have weakened Avernum's ability to resist them, rather than trying to do the work itself. The Empire hated Nephil and Slith even more than it hated the human Avernites. The hostile Slith and Nephil (the vast majority, anyhow) would hate the Empire too much to ally with them, and they're not stupid enough to wait until the Empire turns on them, next, to fight them. Esp. the savage Nephil, who have not forgotten about the Empire's genocide on the surface. "Yeah, this isn't worth our blood and time," for the fight to really end. That's what killing Garzad did. Prazac took over she said enough is enough. Does Prazac have a different and more peaceful personality than Garzad, though? If so, then "this isn't worth our time" would not factor in as much as you think, and in that case the change in leadership is what shifted the Imperial war plans.

I have a question-- what is the Empire's stance towards summoning creatures and creating undead during battle? So we see this during A2, either plot or game-mechanics-wise? Well, for starters, you can just go in a room the fire hasn't gotten into, and close the door. Or better yet, duck into the basement. Sure, game-wise. We're also talking plot-wise, here (if not primarily). As far as plot/fluff-- quickfire realistically would not be blocked by wooden doors. Sturdy metal doors, maybe-- though that depends on whether it's fire or electric-based quickfire. Also, ducking into the basement, plot/physics-wise would be the worst possible choice, thanks to gravity. Wait, speaking of, is quickfire ever fire damage, or is the term a misnomer, with it always being electricity-based and inflicting magical damage? Let's be honest here. The only reason why the Avernites 'won' the war with the Empire was the exact same reason the United States 'won' against the British. The British could have steamrolled the Americas if they wanted too. They had the numbers and the training. The reason they 'lost' was because the war was too much of pain to fight a thousand miles across the sea for years on end. No, that is incorrect. I already stated the reason why they lost. It wasn't due to distance, it was due to unfamiliar territory, which is stated outright in the game (at least in the original + remake demos, which is as far as I've gotten) to be a huge disadvantage. Empire soldiers are not familiar with the hazards of Avernum. They are not accustomed to fighting in caves. Their eyes have not adapted to years/decades/a lifetime of living in dimly-lit caverns. Were it not for this, then the Empire would have swept through Avernum like quickfire. The Empire did not "tire" of the war any more than the Union and Confederates tired of the Civil War. Once it got underway, it went from being about preserving the Union/secession to (at least among the majority of soldiers) being all about blood feud. Read the history. I don't know about A2, but in A3, the blood feud aspect is emphasized strongly. This is what always happens, or at least used to happen before the advent of modern media. For reference, this is what a blood feud is: (A blood feud is a cycle of retaliatory violence between anywhere from two immediate families to entire clans/tribes, in retaliation for a member of one group being wronged or esp. killed by a member of the other. It can last for generations. Though technically not considered a blood feud, the same phenomena can occur on a nation-wide scale. The American Civil War is a prime example of a blood-feud-like phenomenon. After 2 years, *the typical amount of time for retaliatory sentiment, hatred, bitterness, and dehumanization of the other side to develop in a war* it went from being about secession/preserving the Union to being about revenge for fallen comrades and dehumanization of the opposing side. The advent of modern media in the 60's and 70's brought an end to widespread blood feud sentiment in industrialized nations *though still prevalent among American soldiers in 'Nam, it nonetheless was exponentially reduced percentage-wise from previous wars* and the development of smart/precision bombing in the 80's was a direct result of the anguish and mental scarring suffered by Vietnam soldiers over indiscriminate bombing of villages. Today, American sentiment is more about justice (or in some cases, vengeance) against enemy combatants and fighting to protect the innocent in the country that the war takes place in.) Okay, enough yammering, back to the subject. We see the blood-feud sentiment alive and well in A3 (and possibly A2? Only played the demos), and it would have been more than enough to fuel the war against the Avernites. Let's not forget, also, that the Avernites include Nephil and the indigenous Slith-- creatures that the Empire hates-- this serves to increase the hostility, disgust, and dehumanization towards human Avernites even more.

Take E3/E4 for example. Wait, there was an Exile 4?

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It can go onto the To Do List with Avernum 7, Avernum Prequel, and Geneforge 6. Maybe "Blades of Avadon" or "Hands of Avadon." No way, man. First off, Geneforge 5, despite the incomplete endings/open questions-- from what I understand, is rather complete, as is Avernum 6. An Avernum prequel would admittedly be pretty sweet, although I'm not sure how that would work as the first explorers would have a problem with finding towns and outposts. An Avernum 2 prequel would be awesome, though (you play as the folks who assassinated Hawthorne or Redmark or whichever the A1 dictator's name was) It would be resource and programming-intensive however as the Empire world is heavily populated. It would also be a bit bland-- the vast majority of enemies would be human and animal, with the third most common dungeon enemies being undead. Though definitely a key point would be enlisting help/making alliances with the small hidden pockets of remaining Nephil, goblins, drakes, etc. (they couldn't possibly have all snuck out from Fort Emergence in A3, right? But then again it's been a few months since I played the demo.) Now, if we're talking about a pre-A1 Avernum game-- I just can't see how that would work. Mainly because the Vahnatai haven't been discovered yet, the majority of Slith are in The Horde, and there wouldn't be any towns or shops beyond the starting outpost-- and no spirals to and from said outpost. Why wouldn't a Sholai series be at all likely, though, for the next game series? The Sholai are outsider mages, they would have a different magic system than the Shapers (though still following the same rules of that world regarding teleportation and strength/scope of its power) In addition, they are sea explorers, so we'd get to see a more ocean-based adventure series, and the shapers as a minor/cameo plot point. An ocean-based SS series! That would be awesome! It would make the series unique and stand out above the other three series.

More importantly, though, you missed a huge point I developed; the Shapers style of warfare would be ideal to disrupt the logistical lines of the Empire. And with four continents worth of resources to juggle, there's a lot of places where disruption can happen. A single infiltrator can turn a secure territory into a war zone overnight, and while this may just amount to a nuisance rather than a serious security concern, it could very well prevent the full strength of the Empire coming to bear. You're forgetting something that I mentioned before-- infiltration is more difficult in Empire lands (save Valorim) than Shaper. The Empire is heavily populated-- sure this gives the advantage of being able to more easily blend in, but the disadvantage is that there are fewer places to hide, and if the Empire did a military sweep of any and all buildings and hiding places... What strengths does Avernum have? First of all, they are highly magical; more so, I would argue, than the Empire. They're a lot more lax and liberal about who can conduct magic, and the Tower is outside of the direct control of the government. I already went over the Avernum advantages over the Empire, but the unfamiliarity with foreign environment is a disadvantage shared by both sides-- the Avernites are not familiar with the surface, and unlike the Empire in Avernum (there are plenty of more recent exiles in A2 for dark-skinned Avernites), Avernites, excepting those aforementioned recent exiles (which are limited in number thus there are few adventurers to choose from), cannot blend in with Empire citizens. Also, their population is small compared to any on the surface. They cannot produce a standing army with large numbers. The best they can do is rely on subterfuge and assassination. I could be wrong, but I don't think that assassination alone is as devastating to the Shapers as it is to the Empire OR The Pact, as the Shapers are the most cohesive unit of the three. I think this is sporadic and unreliable, they tend to have a great proclivity for finding allies - the Vahnatai, the Slithzerikai, the Dragons, etc. They don't have the best equipment (besides a few notable legendary items) nor the best economy (besides crystals), but they are self-sufficient and still have strong industry and agriculture. Yeah, which I covered above. A huge advantage over the Empire AND Shapers, and a key reason why they won the war. Whereas the Empire and Shapers cannot accomplish this due to their arrogance and rigidness (also, the Empire likes to genocide any non-human sapients) How does the conflict take place? I think it is pretty unrealistic to imagine Avernum invading anyone; there is not a huge expansionistic drive. Now, your Sucia comparison I think is a good one-- the Avernites are not large in number and thus could not produce a large standing army compared to any Empire. So, I presume that Sucia would be invading Avernum, for whatever reason. Sucia wouldn't stand a chance. They would only make large gains short-term. They would establish a stronghold, but only because the Avernites wouldn't realize what was happening and would be unfamiliar with Drakons and Serviles. Such a stronghold would be short-lived, however. Once the Avernites realized what was happening and mounted a response, the Sucians would be quickly wiped out. Remember what I said above about The Empire. For all their power and superior numbers, look at how impotent they were in the invasion. They did a comparitively poor job at sweeping through Avernum. This is solely because of the unfamiliar territory. Sucia's limited numbers would put them at a far greater disadvantage. Conscripts don't tend to make good soldiers. Wasn't detrimental to the Imperial invasion in A2-- and were it not for the dark, alien environment, the Empire would have swept through Avernum like a wildfire. The Empire's superior numbers cannot be emphasized enough. Not only is The Empire (save Valorim) far more densely populated than Terrestria and Avadon, but they also span an entire plant-- remember in A3, we are told that the Empire spans the entire surface world.

BTW, that just gave me a cool idea. We should petition Jeff to make a Geneforge spinoff series that takes place on the Sholai lands.

The Shapers don't have an edge over the empire at all. You are forgetting one very important fact: sheer numbers. The Empire has an entire planet under its control, with Valorim, more heavily populated than Terrestria, being considered "frontier" and "sparsely populated" The Shapers only control a large continent and some islands. This means that the Empire has an entire PLANET worth of resources and conscripts. The only advantages the Shapers hold over the Empire is their creations, healing/essence pools, and a Shaper-Sholai alliance-created domination of the seas-- whiuch admittedly are pretty huge advantages. However, only a minority of elite shapers can control their creations over a mile or more. This is less of a problem during an invasion of Valorim, but in Terrestria they simply can't risk losing control of their creations. The Empire's advantages are heaps more resources, an exponentially larger population than Terrestria and Sholai COMBINED, and more elite specimens/generals/etc. as opposed to the Shapers who tend to have few people with outstanding qualities, and even then they don't stack up to the Empire's elites. So the Empire has elite scouts, generals, and mages, while the Shapers are much more cohesive and take greater advantage of strength in numbers. Magical items are also stronger on the Empire/Avernum world than in the Geneforge one-- You don't hear about elite warriors/rebels/shapers with a magical sword that makes them exponentially more deadly than they already were. Nor is there anything in the Geneforge world that compares to the Demonslayer (note that I am talking EXCLUSIVELY story/plot-wise, and not game mechanics wise) Granted, the Shapers have elite creation specimens, but they still don't compare to the Empire's elites and magical artifacts. Also, regarding the limitations on magic, my understanding was that Solberg, Erika, etc. were already archmage-level powerful before they were banished. So how do these forces stack up? The closest case study is Rentar's plagues on Valorim. I've already explained why I believe that the Shapers are far better at Shaping than the Vahnatai. So, what did we see when Valorim was basically covered in rogues? Footracer Province was left in ruins, the Imperial Army was brought to its knees, and the entire continent was quarantined. Cities and towns started to be eaten up by creatures as simple as slimes, just because they came in unrelenting waves. Not a good example. Valorim is frontier land. Had the plagues occurred in the settled continents, they would not have gotten far. Sure, they might be pretty devastating, but in more of an economic depression + social unrest level rather than apocalyptic-- empire dervishes are plentiful, and a much more populated continent means fewer places to hide the factories (which will also be discovered much sooner) And Maybe both of them can do the same magic but their methods of learning magic are different so they have different spells. That's why the Empire has teleportation and the Shapers have shaping. Nowhere does it say they can't teleport. Maybe they simply don't know how. We learn in the Avernums that portals can sometimes occur naturally in high-energy areas. The lack of such things in the Geneforge world suggests that it is simply impossible there. Nowhere does it say they can't teleport. Maybe they simply don't know how. When you fight Khyryk in G3, we are told about how dangerous and limited teleportation magic is-- the text, as I recall, specifically stated that he would still be in the tower somewhere. Agatha's teleportation doesn't count since she used so many canisters.

That doesn't make any sense. What is the "Natural Armor" stat, then? Edit: I also plan to add some other stuff to the stats later, namely Natural Armor, regen rate, Parry%, and nimbleness.

Magic seems to ben far more powerful in the Avernum world than it is in the Shaper World (granted I have yet to play 4 or 5) I wonder how you presume these entities will meet. I'm assuming that the Empire discovers the Shapers' continent a hundred miles off the coast of Valorium, but it could also be that the two are thousands of miles apart divided by the sea. They're not on the same planet. A3, at least from what I played in the demo, made it pretty clear that the empire owns the entire planet-- not just a single continent, but the entire world. Valorim, the continent that A3 takes place on, is considered a "frontier" continent, and sparsely populated compared to the rest of the world. Compare this to the Shaper world- where there are many continents that are not within Shaper control, including the Sholai lands. Terrestria and Sholai would have to be pretty large-sized continents, probably around the size of Valorim. There just aren't enough unexplored places on the surface for the Geneforge world to exist there. So this would mean that they are two different worlds (note that easter eggs in the games do not count as proof that they're on the same world) My impression is that, like the Ultima series, magic does not work the same way on different worlds. So who wins depends on which world they're on. Shapers would have zero chance on the Empire planet, because it doesn't look like shaping works there, and summoning is a crappy alternative. They could still magically engineer creatures like they do in Avernum, but they wouldn't be able to create or bombard creatures with essence. OTOH, on the Geneforge world, teleportation magic is very dangerous and ineffectual (unless you use a bunch of canisters, you can only travel short distances *e.g. Agatha* and if you're not careful, you'll kill yourself) Portals simply do not exist in the Geneforge world-- if it did, then we would see weaksauce ones pop up naturally like they do in the Empire/Avernum world. The Empire still has a shot on the Geneforge world, even though they would not be able to transport large numbers of soldiers at once. Also, it seems like magic itself isn't as powerful in the Geneforge world (again, still haven't played the last two games yet) It seems like what takes a huge amount of resources/energy in Geneforge takes far less to get the same result in the Avernum world. I can't picture something like The Spiral being possible, nor can I imagine something like the event at the Tower of Magi that supposedly could have blown up the entire underworld.

CREATURE TYPE 3 (Mindless-- immune to mind-affecting e.g. daze, terror, charm) Turret 25/0/0/0/0/0/100 Def Courage 100 --Venom Turret 25/0/0/0/100/0/100 --Burning Turret 25/0/0/0/0/100/100 --Submission Turret 25/0/0/40/0/50/100 --Reaper Turret 25/0/0/0/0/0/100 Flaming Shrub 25/100/0/0/0/0/100 --Spraying Shrub, Swamp Shrub 25/0/100/0/0/0/100 Def Courage 100 Pylon 60/70/90/30/0/20/100 Def Courage 100 --Energy Spire 60/70/90/30/0/20/100 Spinecore 25/0/0/0/0/0/100 Def Courage 100 --Venomous Spinecore 25/0/0/0/100/0/100 --Burning Spinecore 25/0/0/0/100/100/100 --Stunning Spinecore 25/0/0/100/0/0/100 --Reaper Spinecore 25/0/0/0/0/0/100 Searing Artila 0/0/0/50/0/50/?100 Def Courage 70, Nimble 20 CREATURE TYPE 4 (Undead) Shade, Specter, Warrior Specter 30/0/100/0/100/100/80 (100?) Def Courage 100, Nimble 10 --Specter Sage, Icy Specter, Infernal Specter, Ghost, Shaper Shade 30/0/100/0/100/100/80 (100?) Nimble 25 CREATURE TYPE 2 (Human) Scout (melee), Fighter 40/25/25/25/0/0/0 Def Courage 75, Parry 2 --Warrior, Elite Warrior, Blademaster, Guard, Scout (missile) 40/25/25/25/0/0/0 Nat Armor 15, Parry 3 Apprentice Mage 0/25/25/40/0/20/0 --Wizard, Researcher, Shaila 0/25/25/40/0/20/0 NOT SURE (not listed) --Golem 50/70/90/40/100/0/100 Nat Armor 20, Def Courage 100 --Golem type 2 50/70/90/40/100/0/100 Nat Armor 30, Def Courage 100 --Agent 50/30/30/60/0/0/70 --Guardian 60/30/30/0/0/0/70 --Shaper 40/50/50/50/0/0/70 0/0/0/0/0/0/0

Another important thing not mentioned here-- the "mindless" (and I assume, undead) creature category have immunity to mental effects. Creatures in the mindless and undead category include: --pylons --Shades --Spinecores --Turrets Strangely, according to the script in G3, the Searing Artilia is also mindless. If you load up the text in notepad and look at the creature type, type 3 is mindless, and type 5 (G4 and 5 only) is undead. Also note that only the creation type can be affected by Discipline wands. Type 2 (human) and type 0 (animal/augmented animal) cannot be affected. Augmented animals include: --crawlers --rats --worms I have no idea if the human creature type (2) has any special properties.A 0/0/0/0/0/0/0 Now looking at G4, along with all the resistances (in the following order: stun/fire/cold/energy/poison/acid/mind-affect. They're color-coded for easy reading, and I tried to make the colors distinctive but not too eye-biting.) If looking for a specific creature, then just Ctrl + F Shock Trooper 0 Thornflinger 0 0 0 Servant Golem 0 Unbound One CREATURE TYPE 1 (creation) Fyora 0/30/0/0/0/0/0 Nat Armor 4 Warped Fyora, Enraged Fyora, Charged Fyora 0/30/0/0/0/0/0 Nat Armor 4 --Cryoa 0/0/30/0/0/0/0 Nat Armor 4 Savage Cryoa 0/0/30/0/0/0/0 Nat Armor 4 Thahd 30/0/0/0/0/0/0 --Charged Thahd 30/0/0/50/0/0/0 Nimble 20 --Unstable Thahd 30/0/0/0/80/80/0 Artila 0/0/0/50/0/50/0 --Charged Artila 0/0/0/100/0/50/0 Nimble 20 --Inferno Wyrm 0/100/0/50/0/50/0 Nimble 20 Ornk 0/0/0/0/0/0/0 --Oozebeast 0/0/0/0/0/100/0 --Detonating Beast (not sure if same as oozebeast or ornk) Servile 15/0/0/0/0/0/0 Guard Servile 30/0/0/0/0/0/0 Rogue Servile, Warrior Servile, Servile Defender, War-Bred Servile 30/0/0/0/0/0/0 Servile Icecaster 15/50/50/50/0/0/0 --Servile Mindcaster, Servile Cultist 15/50/50/50/0/0/0 --Servile Vat Tech 30/90/90/0/90/90/0 --Servile Power Tech 30/30/0/30/0/0/0 --Baton Servile 30/0/0/0/0/0/0 --Guardian Roamer, Pyroroamer, Icebreath Roamer 20/0/0/0/0/50/0 Vlish 30/0/0/30/50/0/0 --Charged Vlish 30/0/100/30/50/0/0 --Spectral Vlish 30/0/0/30/50/0/0 Clawbug 40/0/0/0/100/0/0 --Plated Clawbug, Stinging Clawbug 40/0/0/0/100/0/0 Nat Armor 9 --Stinging Clawbug 40/0/0/0/100/0/0 Nat Armor 9 --Redshell Clawbug 40/100/0/0/100/100/0 Nat Armor 9 Spawner 25/25/25/0/0/0/0 Spawner (blue) 25/25/25/0/0/0/0 Nat Armor 10 Spawner (teal) 25/25/25/0/0/0/0 Nat Armor 15 Servant Mind 50/0/0/75/80/0/70 --Warped Creator 50/0/0/70/80/0/25 Battle Alpha, Battle Beta 40/20/20/0/0/0/0 Battle Gamma, Servant Golem 40/20/20/0/0/0/0 Nat Armor 40 Glaahk 30/0/0/80/0/0/0 --Ur-Glaahk 30/0/0/80/0/0/0 Drayk 40/80/0/0/0/0/0 --Cryodrayk 40/20/80/0/0/0/0 Misshapen Golem 50/70/90/40/100/0/100 Parry 1 Drakon 40/70/0/0/0/0/75 Parry 3 --Ur-Drakon, Unbound One 40/70/0/70/0/0/75 Parry 3 Gazer 0/50/50/80/0/0/90 Parry 3 --Eyebeast 0/50/50/80/0/0/90 Parry 3 Rotghroth 50/0/0/0/80/100/70 Parry 3 --Corrupted Rotghroth, Rotdhizon 50/0/0/0/80/100/70 Parry 3 Kyshakk 30/0/0/50/0/0/60 --Burning Kyshakk, Exploding Kyshakk 30/0/0/50/0/0/60 War Trall 30/40/40/0/0/0/60 --Shock Trall 30/40/40/0/0/0/60 Wingbolt 40/0/0/80/0/0/80 --Unstable Firebolt 40/0/0/80/0/0/80 CREATURE TYPE 0 (Augmented/Mutated Animal) Rat (any) 0/0/0/0/0/0/0 --Slimy Worm Fiery Worm, Venomous Worm, Spawned Worm 0/0/0/0/0/0/0 Oozing Worm 0/0/0/0/100/100/0 --Toothy Crawler 0/0/0/0/0/0/0 -Spiny Crawler, Icy Crawler, Spawned Crawler 0/0/0/0/0/0/0 -Oozing Crawler 0/0/0/0/90/90/0 (COT'D NEXT POST)

I hope that Jeff takes AT LEAST two years to make it. There was just so much in A3 that made it so perfect, a ton of which was not present in A1 or 2, originals or remakes. I want to see a LOT of greenery sprites, that underground reed spoken of in A1_3 that rough cloth is made out of, and let's also have some giant mosses and lichens (or maybe not-- only way either would be practical is by creating detailed fractals.) One year worth of development just plain isn't good enough for A3.

I voted Avernum originals, but then again, I've never played the Exile trilogy because the installer says they won't work on Windows 7.