Hyena of Ice

Before anyone answers, please read these parts: --I am registered --Windows 7 --Gog Games version --Scenarios were unzipped and scenario's folder placed in Blades of Avernum scenarios in Programfilesx86>>>Blades of Avernum>>>BoA Scenarios --Loaded parties are not currently in a scenario --Only the four SS scenarios are available/show up. --SS manual does not help at all-- says something about arrows, but no such arrows or window exists I looked everywhere and found no answer to this problem. How do I fix this?

Oh, I see. (also, I apologize if there was any hostility in my response-- I was a bit frustrated and not optimistic) AHA!!! Solved!!!!! It's in Users --> (your name) -->Appdata --> Local --> Virtualstore --> Geneforge 3 --> Data --> (save file number) I knew it was in someplace weird Hope this is helpful for someone in the future.

No, I already told you that only G4 and later games are stored in My Documents. With G2 and G3 it's somewhere in some sort of system file-- Program Data, User --> Appdata roaming, local, or locallow, or Programfiles, or something like that. I'm surprised that even the moderators don't know where the files are stored That is not a good sign...

It's not in the G3 >> Data >> Save 1~15 folders. That only applies to G1. It is not in My Documents, either-- that only applies to G4 and later. I remember finding the G2 and G3 saves a couple of times in the past, in some weird place, I just for the life of me cannot remember where. I really want to back up my save files. Where on Windows 7 are they located?

Dammit. See, I knew I'd end up doing something like this! Now I'm already warned, and next time I slip up, I'm banned, right? Actually, it's probably best that you do ban me now, since I'll just slip up again in the future, and we can see how I only debase threads rather than add anything positive to them...

Second while i agree that bringing too much outside forces and kingdoms and factions would make it a little bit like avadon and very not centric to the main story. Depends on whether you're going for the Geneforge 6 or Spinoff idea. In a spinoff setting, you probably wouldn't be visiting Terrestria at all (except for the Alwan/Greta cameo in the 2nd title) because it would be too much work for Jeff (esp. in regards to the scaling-- kinda like he gave up on trying to insert the A5 map into A6) Personally I'd rather see the rest of the world rather than more Terrestria and more Shaper this, Shaper that. I want to see the Sholai and the nations they interact with. We have 5 games that take place on Shaper lands. How about 3 games that take place on the same world, but DO NOT involve Shaper lands at all aside from a few optional islands with bonus regions/dungeons, a brief stop at W. Dhonal in the second title, and a stop at or near Sucia at the beginning of the first title? Also, keeping the interactions with Shaper Lands and non-rogue/mad Shapers in general would avoid problems with the G1~5 canon.

Miranda was by far my favorite character in all the games. So down tp earth. I dislike her greatly. She's a huge [censored]. You and Alwan are the only people that she even treats like human beings. Even her fellow shapers are just pawns to her (she scolds you for wasting your time to save those stranded Shapers in the swamps) Why would Jeff name such a vile character after his daughter? she not have the self righteous atitude about her Are you kidding me? She's worse than most shapers. Anyone who isn't either you or a superior is just trash. What does Alwan see in this woman? How can he even stand to hear anything that comes out of her mouth? She doesn't bat an eyelash even if a fellow Shaper dies, if they are of lower rank than her! Hell, she even looks down upon Alwan, in secret, and even says so behind his back! (the "typical Guardian" comment-- as if SHE has somehow seen more of the world than he has, give me a break. Disgusting woman, no redeemable qualities IMO.)

there's remnants of the more radical factions of the Rebels and Loyalists trying to regroup in the Sholai's territory, Whatever sort of centralized government the Sholai have is trying to figure out how to deal with it all, whether to stay neutral, or back/ally with the moderate or radical shaper factions, and fend off the man who would be king (the aforementioned rogue captain). Oh, I just want to specify that the Sholai nations are just one of the many nations of the setting. So it would be the government coalitions who are trying to sort it out. Also, it would likely include more rogue factions than just a Trakovite one, as the peoples of other nations would also be tempted. The Sholai most definitely would not stay neutral on this if the rogue Shapers/Rebels are endangering the populace of Sholai lands with rogue creations. The players, of course, ultimately have to decide which side they ally with. And of course, the Wyldrym-like purists would be killing any Shaper, any servile, and any Terrestrian that they find. Somehow you have to have gotten the ability to shape (wouldn't properly be a Geneforge game otherwise). But it's not a Geneforge game. It's a spinoff series. If this is to be a seafaring game, then having an upgradable ship that serves as your home base would be nice. You could get an anvil eventually, more crew members, etc. On land it'd behave similarly to normal gene forge zones like with G3 Yeah, we already thought of that. Possibly up until a certain point in the game, you have to dock and pay a crew (but not a whole lot, for balance sake) to repair your ship, but at some point in the game you recruit someone who will repair it for free (whenever you dock at a friendly town) after helping him defeat/save him from one of the regional big bad guys (e.g. the boss at the end of a sub-mission who you have to defeat in order to get access to the next area/region of zones) And of course there would have to be upgrades to weapons, hull armor, etc. On land it'd behave similarly to normal gene forge zones like with G3 Yeah, that's the idea. except when you leave via boat it doesn't just teleport you, it puts you on your ship and you consult that world map to sail around. Actually, my idea was that when you board your ship, it opens up an overworld map like in the Avernum remakes (and the original first Avernum trilogy) Or maybe that's what you were trying to describe.

I also liked how you included shapping into it. But i'd find it complicated in terms of mechanics since ifyou have an avernum style party with mass effect/avadon recruitment build creations couldnt fit. I agree 100%. Esp. since it's not a Geneforge game, it's a spinoff series. And yeah, now that you mention real life factions/orgs, I just remembered the Spice Wars of the 19th century, which would be an obvious component of this type of setting/genre. I dont likw the stereotypical power crazed usurper idea. The crazed usurper could be a consequence of the unequal power thing that I mentioned earlier, much like Nazi Germany and the Treaty of Versailles-- which, for a refresher course, bankrupted the country and left the desperate citizens looking for promises of a way out, and an enemy to blame the situation on-- of which Germany had plenty. This made it easier for a charismatic dictator to exploit the people, and also remember that the actual degree of Nazi atrocities was kept secret from the populace. Enemies were based off of nearly 1000 years of antisemitism and antiziganism (anti "gypsy" racism against Roma and Sinti) as well as extremist nationalism AND blood feud (specifically, abuses against German civilians by certain countries' militias during the first World War) Throughout human history and prehistory, for most wars, blood feud has been a key motivator in war crimes. In the Sholai setting, the usurper would most likely be a militocracy led by a charismatic general that ousted the royal family in a coup that likely consisted of an assassination(s) with a hated neighbor or tribe framed for it (It would very much be a facsimile of would have happened after A5 had the Darkside Loyalists won)

Oh, I might not have articulated myself very well, but my response was in assumption (possibly incorrect) that you are experiencing slowness on your system in general.

This is a super common problem with upgrades to Windows 10. Fossbytes has instructions on how to fix it. (just type fossbytes, windows 10, and slow into the Google or Bing search)

She wasn't alone in that room though. Shotwell and that servile scribe were in the quarters with her.

Only to an extent. It would be similar to 20th and 21st century coalitions, axises, UN treaties, NAFTA, the EU, things like that, some of which would change between games (and also involve a few new ones/disappearance of old ones between games) And regarding task of scripting the overland naval map, BTW, it's already half to 2/3rds done via the Avernum remakes. Most of the remaining scripting would involve the editing of blockage types and the naval battle screen & all that entails. Everything else would still be a monumentous task, though.

We don't really know what sort of intoxicants they have besides alcohol in the Geneforge world, based on the way the pipes look I would assume they've got something akin to tobacco. We can assume that they've got some illegal herb based on the dried herbs in the locker at the Customs Office in Ft. Wilton in G3. Or at least it's implied, unless that is just a lost-and-found locker full of the pocket contents of those arrested at the customs office. (It's kinda like how it's implied but not stated that the bodies of the teachers were gnawed upon by giant rats, due to the fact that you encounter a bunch of rats in the room with the bodies.) there's never any mention that she has chronic pain and she doesn't seem to act as if she does It says at the beginning of G4 that she has many scars and walks with a limp. That generally entails chronic pain. If she were on anything along the lines of Opium, I think it'd be more obvious She received Shaper training-- albeit incomplete (I think she was a third-year apprentice *It is implied that Alwan is one year ahead of you, AND assuming that an apprentice goes through 4 years of training prior to the 5 years of of menial field work mentioned in G1 and G2* like the protagonist, but with far fewer hours due to being dismissed from so many classes for disruption). Remember that you encounter Miranda when she's piss drunk and it doesn't affect her behavior at all. Also if they have something like Opium, I would think Alwan would use that over alcohol which is pretty inferior as a painkiller. You do have a point there, unless the "something like opium" is an illegal drug. Opium and hash pipes look quite different The pipe sprite is a render of a 3D Poser model. The digital artist goes with what they have-- DAZ does not nor has it ever sold models of illegal drug periphenalia, so arguing about the appearance doesn't work, esp. with the graphical discrepancies between rendered/line art scenes and game sprites (e.g. the diminutive size of Fyoras compared to in-game sprites, Greta in the opening menu having a ponytail and normal-colored skin as opposed to her radioactive-green skin in the game. Alwan's G5 scene render and in-game sprite is probably the most radical example, however-- and the reason for the difference is because his sprite is Michael 2 with the Outlander outfit and no hair *and much darker skin-- and glowing green eyes*, whereas the 3D scene renders of him are of Michael 3 low res with the M3 version of the Knight Errant armor, I *think* the M3 Bodysuit, and I don't know what hair that is *looks like Alexios hair, but that doesn't have a Michael 3 version listed*) Or how Guardians look like the G1/2 Guardian in G4/5 sketched/rendered scenes, despite the use of the G3 sprite, which I think is supposed to represent apprentice guardians (Looking at the sketches from G1 to G4, there is definitely a noticeable difference in the uniforms of apprentices vs. full shapers, and the average full Shaper vs. Shaper council members/rulers/elites *well, at least regarding Guardians and Agents-- The only evidence I have that shaper apprentices have different uniforms is Litalia's statement in G3 about getting the "robes" upon full initiation*

About Greta from GF3 (I should totally get back to that game ) beginning at least: She's indecisive to join that "rebellion" because by the time the rebellion reaches her it's mainly a mad mass murderer that killed all of her aquintances and left a bunch of monsters in her wake to make life hard for everyone. You're forgetting one of her first lines-- the first one on the Captured Bridge, where she says that it's best to avoid violence "unless they have to" (I'd say that rogue thahd on a bridge who could go even more rogue at any moment would be a "have to" scenario). She also gets quite upset when you absorb the rogue artilia in Ft. Kentia that will soon pose a danger to the townspeople. Even in the Beastmaster's Woods she says that she doesn't want to resort to violence in order to overthrow the Shapers. Like I said, a bleeding heart (though she begins to change her tune in Stonespire when you are asked to assassinate Khyryk) Also, I just want to clarify-- maybe I haven't articulated myself well, but unless otherwise specified (such as when I bring up G3), I am only referring to G4 and how the characters are in that game, not how they are in G4. BTW, something else I wanted to mention about G4 Greta (kinda misc. trivia) Unless I am remembering incorrectly, I'm pretty sure she's on drugs. Unless I am remembering incorrectly (very possible) she has a pipe in her desk at the Southforge Citadel. She also has one in the box at her cubicle at Quessa-Uss (again, please correct me if I'm wrong about the Southforge Citadel) I assume it's some sort of painkiller for chronic pain.

Do you have any idea how much copying and pasting that would involve? I'm not even sure that quoting that much game script would be within the TOS...

I'm not trying to belittle your opinion No, you're just telling me I have no right to debate in these threads and that I need to stop because I have no clue what I'm talking about. *Sigh* I guess you're right, though. I'll try to remember not to participate in these threads anymore. I'll probably forget, though. You'll have to remind me if I forget.

that is noooot a good description of greta's personality at any point of the series Yes, it perfectly describes her, up until the Isle of Spears. She's a bleeding heart who is not easily angered and prefers to fight only in self-defense, can't decide which side to join but follows you like a lost puppy (Alwan follows you like a lost puppy as well) She sometimes wants to side with the rebels but tells you flat out more than once that she wouldn't have had the courage nor conviction to do it on her own (e.g. if you give the canister to Lankan) Timid, though tends to have a big mouth nonetheless (see the "wouldn't have had the courage to do it myself" part above

Im having some trouble coming up with the storyline. But its too good. And yah the world map avernum style would work. Specially since it would need little improvement over time. Same here, beyond VERY basic concepts-- mainly totalitarian dictatorships/military dictatorships and rogue militias/cults/what have you. The main or one of the main plot baddies could be a powerful group of pirate raiders, a budding but quickly expanding totalitarian military dictatorship bent on world domination, a rogue kingdom which has broken several treaties, or a secret order of mages or cultists who are unleashing treaty-violating creatures. Actually, now that I think about it, I can think of more in-depth about the plot-- or at least the setting. Treaties between kingdoms and tribes would be a major element in the series-- something like a cross between The Pact in Avadon, the UN, and the EU, with lopsided power structure and oppression based on kingdom. There would be different types of treaties as well-- you would have some that are more international and UN-like, while certain groups of neighboring kingdoms, nationstates, or cities would have something more akin to The Pact or the EU. The global treaties would include bans on say-- demon invocation and certain types of necromancy, while some of the continental-based treaties would include a ban on magically augmenting animals (including Shaping-- but the trilogy setting would include natural fantantastical and magical creatures, along with dangerous wild animals) Certain religious orders and/or tribes would take a very puritarian view on this, to the point of killing any Shaper they meet on the spot (this would likely be more of a thing in the third title, as the Sholai at the W. Dhonal Keep in G3 tells us that there are few Shapers in the Sholai lands-- the Shaper/Rebel war OTOH, would result in more Terrestrians leaving for other continents-- though this would have to be done illegally because I get the impression in G4 that intercontinental travel has been banned due to the war-- the Shapers would not want rebels to escape the continent in order to regroup and return later, nor would they want to lose conscripts and future conscripts.) The classes I came up with are very generic and focus more on freelancers-- classes like mercenary (instead of soldier-- has training in melee combat, may come from a military or tribal background), swashbuckler (your more dextrous-based warrior, the pirate warrior), scout (your rogue + archer class), explorer (wilderness rogue/warrior-- very similar to the ranger, but with weaker combat skills and stronger naval/leadership skills-- begins with 1 level of priestcraft), mage (your wizard class), and spiritist (very generic priest class that is a mix between cleric, shaman, and druid) Nowhere near the number or variety of Avernum classes (no mage/priest mix, no barbarian, also no magely equivalent to the ranger) I also just last night thought up another funny line from that scene. Alwan walks over to Greta and leans in closer to whisper to her. They seem to think that you can't hear them for some reason, but you can. Stop talking to these shady foreigners. We could be in enough trouble as it is. Disobeying Shaper Diwaniya's orders and going to visit those filthy Rebels. Dealing with them, and then leaving without even killing a single one... Violating the quarantine... Not to mention the number of keys that our leader has stolen..." Speaking of a grasp on Alwan, did you know that there is a dummied forced conversation with Alwan in G3? A pity it wasn't included because it gives a better picture of Alwan's gradual change over the game (also somewhat amusing when he takes his frustrations out on Greta unprovoked) If you are interested, the file with the dialog is in the Scripts folder, and its title is "z15eastdockdlg.txt" Here are a few of lines from it: "My training is as a Guardian. We are warriors, soldiers. We receive guidance from the Shapers. We are told where to go to war, and when." "I have not been taught how to react to these situations, what the Shaper laws and guidelines are." He points at Greta. "Even she is better suited to this. Agents, even failed ones..." She looks away, annoyed by the insult. "They study our code, so they know what to do, even when apart from our leaders."

But the Rebellion is MORE than the Drakons as you've probably seen with GF5. Not in G4, it isn't. The entire goal if you play the rebel side in G4 is to aid Greta in forging (forcing?) an alliance between the two sides of the rebellion at any cost. Also, I have yet to play G5, but I'm assuming that the different factions of rebels arose BECAUSE of the Unbound at the end of G4. You see that in GF4 and GF5 in the way that Drakons treat everyone else. You see that in G2 and G3 as well, though in G3 to a far lesser extent. As such, while both sides fight dirty (Rebels fight dirtier), the rebels at least fight dirty to liberate slaves and topple a tyrannical, genocidal magical order while the Shapers fight in order to keep absolute control including control over creatures created subservient. Except the Rebels (or at least their leadership), to a much greater extent than the Shapers, are willing to go to the lengths of forfeiting the lives of the very people they are fighting for. Ghaldrig tells us that the Unbound will likely destroy most of the life on Terrestria, and that there won't be much left for the survivors. Greta states that she is starting to believe that anything is acceptible in order to overthrow the Shapers. We see other rebels in G4 who in many ways have become the very thing that they hate-- e.g. rebel fighters who are angry that the civilians who lost their homes to the war curse rather than thank them for "fighting for their freedoms:" Some of the most damning stuff is actually in G3, where he's not in charge but we do see constant personal reactions from him and opinions about what the Shapers should be doing, that are pretty callous and vile. That's young G3 Alwan you are talking about. His personality changes a fair amount on G4, just like Greta goes from being the kindly, indecisive, timid girl-next-door type to a hypocritical, hot-headed leader who swears like a sailor. Sure, she still has much of her G3 principles, but she throws them out the window for the sake of victory. Ethics and convictions mean little if you don't stand up for them.

Do you get to upgrade ships? Probably-- I didn't think about that aspect and was mostly thinking about that Naval Lore would cover most of the ship-related skills and combat (Nature Lore would still be used for certain hazards) Yeah, now that you mention it, you probably would need weapon and hull/sail/poopdeck/etc. upgrades. Hire new crews? I didn't think about that aspect, either, but you probably would have bet. 2-4 people accompanying you. With the first title, I pictured the opening starting with you being new mercenaries or explorers under a mentor, and your first high-seas quest is to pick up the remaining non-augmented Sholai from Sucia (I haven't played G5 yet so I don't know if the situation was explained there, but I would imagine that someone would have made it back to the Sholai lands in a smaller vessel that could not hold all of the survivors) On the way back to the Sholai lands, something completely unrelated happens that acts as a launching point for the main plot/quest for the game. Who will you fight? Who knows. Will you secure aliances to fight a bigger enemy(as the sholai generally are very diplomatic and do their best not to antagonise the natives) Of course. Only big problem i see is that the map would have to be huge! I envision the naval map as being an Avernum-style overworld map, and you can dock at certain places to access a Geneforge-style region map. But yes, that would be a truly massive world. The good news is that once the seas overland map is made, it would mean far less work for the other two titles. Obviously not all nations/islands would be accessible in every game (partly because it would be too much work to redesign region zones for each one for each title) And if we go with creating aliances the endings cant be cannon. Doubtful, as the trilogy would allow only very limited exploration of Shaper lands, and we don't hear much about the other kingdoms of the planet. Also you should have to make hard choices. Such as to gain support of one you'd have to destroy another. Etc... Well of course, since it would be a Geneforge spinoff. Can we put this to vote and send it to jeff? If he is open to sugestions that is. I was told by Lilith that he is not open to suggestions, otherwise I would have suggested it to him. Oh, and in my idea of the convo with Greta and Alwan in the second title, one of the things you can say (to either of them) is "Sorry to interrupt your lovers' quarrel, but there is something that I need to know..." (the response is the same regardless of which one you are talking to-- both get pissed, Greta turns away angrily, and Alwan forces you out of their room and into the hall, with a forced end to the conversation. But you can just talk to them again without any consequence, and can even bring up that convo as many times as you want > Well, until you escape the W. Keep that is. I would imagine that "I noticed that you wear different uniforms than other Shapers" would be one of the few questions that Alwan would actually answer.

I'll point out that the creations added in G2 were based on the discoveries from Sucia island, it was the secrets Barzal and Zakary took back from the island that allowed them to create those new creations. They just picked up where Sucia left off and they were the logical progression. It's not as if they were created in a vacuum. Bingo. Such that they were created independently in gull's and geneforge 2. And later on too because rothgots became common in shaper armies by geneforge 4 and 5 and assuming that all the research team in gulls died and their knowledge with them. Yeah, that's a serious discrepancy that never made sense to me. How could Shaper Agatha make parralel discoveries on two of the same species created by Barazahl and Eeass in G2? And why are the Shapers in G4 using an illegal creation? Is that last point ever even addressed? Shapers in G4 also use worms/crawlers. Crawlers seem like they would be a HIGHLY illegal creation to use outside of controlled settings (e.g. a laboratory as opposed to military and scouting) seeing as how their larvae are parasitic to most organisms including humans. I dont remember, where there golems on geneforge 1? No, there were not. However, subsequent games give inconsistent information about them. Early in G2 IIRC you are told that golems are a new creation, but later into the game the narration acts like they've been around for awhile, and G3 onward literally claim that they have been around for some time. Fair point triumph. Still, i think sucia had a greater potential for creating stuff. They didnt necessarilly play safe or were responsibly. Also they were very well funded and about extraordinarily talented. You also have to bear in mind that there is some insinuation the Spirit City etc. that the Shapers chose Sucia Isle for the project because there was ancient, forgotten knowledge about Shaping in the ancient ruins. IIRC there is never any conclusive evidence of this beyond the protagonist's speculation. Of things created and barred by shapers, we have self shaping, necromancy, some Golem augmentation research( again why keep repeating it), and finally drayks Human shaping is forbidden, period. It might be permissible to use human genetic stock, but it is illegal to shape a living human being. Also, you forgot about demonology. Not allowed to deal with "forces from the infernal realm"

Being an apprentice would probably be a good starting point, and some kind of rank system before the faction divides become more significant later in the game would probably work well. As for gaining power, the same way we always have: trainers, and of course, the CANISTERS. This was where they were invented after all, and I suspect that they were making a LOT of them. Shapers getting cracked out from canister abuse probably played a large role in prompting the shutdown. Ah, yes, there is a ruined academy there, isn't there? Problem is that apprentices would not be allowed anywhere near the center of research on the e. half of the island. Not just because they're an apprentice, but also because of all the regulations and rules that the researchers were violating, such as keeping human cadavers at one of the research centers. Another problem with a G1 prequel is that (according to Corata) nobody who was associated with the inner workings survived. The Shapers who managed to evacuate the island were nowhere near the Geneforge nor the main lab where that chemical leak was. So there is no possibility for a happy ending for a G1 prequel (even if some of the researchers DID make it off the island, Corata all but states that they would have died a short bit later from the poison) One great idea would be either the shapers exploring the sholai lands(which while habitated are not populous) Personally I'd much Prefer Jeff do a Sholai spinoff series that centers on naval exploration (there would be zones like geneforge, but also a naval overmap, with naval combat. Skill system would be a cross between Geneforge and the Pre-remake avernums, save that there are extra misc skills-- e.g in addition to leadership mechanics and luck, you also have nature lore and naval lore. Combat skills would be simplified like Geneforge and magic would simply be split between magery, priestcraft, and spellcraft.) You wouldn't get to visit Terrestria but you would get to visit some of the Shaper-controlled islands for bonus areas. The first game would start bet. G1 and G2. Second would take place the same time as G3, and the third would take place after G5 (with the Trakovite ending likely being official-- it just seems like the most natural conclusion to the series) I picture the governments falling somewhere between Avadon and Avernum. The Sholai lands would be just one of several that you can visit. I even dreamed up a scene in the second game where you encounter Alwan and Greta (staying at the inn in Dhonal w. Keep while the G3 Protagonist sneaks around to find a way into the keep. (Alwan, as Greta says, has the stealth of a boulder, while she looks rather shady, so they got left behind temporarily and are unhappy about it) Greta is fascinated with you because you are explorers from a foreign land, while Alwan is INCREDIBLY unfriendly and constantly scolds Greta for talking to you.

That would never work for a game. You'd basically have one town or region with towns/shops/etc. and the rest of the world is unexplored and hostile. If you're saying that this would be a Strategy/Time Management type game where towns/outposts/etc. crop up as the game progresses in areas that you've clearedcleared-- which seems like it would be too much of a scripting nightmare for Jeff.

Yeah, worth it to me. Have to see if it works in a few hours.