Hyena of Ice

I thought sure back last summer that Avernum 1~3 were available here, I have to buy it from some site called gog?! Is there any way to purchase them off this site? I don't want to sign up for yet another commercial site, and I have a rule against purchasing games from 3rd party sites. I was really looking forward to playing the full versions, too!

Oh, there's a point, how do they manage their flora when not active? They'd not want some noxious weed ruin all their stuff in the meantime. A5 actually covers quite a bit of this. We are told that a few Vahnatai spinsters live until death by natural causes to maintain the equipment and such. They would be the ones who keep the wildlife from damaging the most essential infrastructure. Beyond that, they don't. They deal with the overgrowth of both flora and fauna (along with the crumbling of their infrastructure) when they come out of hibernation, and it involves months/a few years of continuous backbreaking work. Vahnatai lands. I'm almost certain that the meditation chambers in Egli have pillows in them for sitting purposes. It could be that the Vahnatai use the natural fibrous lichens for these. Yes, there are floor cushions. In Olgai, most bedrooms do display the usage of pillows. I was going more based on the original two trilogies, as I haven't played past the demos of the remakes. Actually, given how inhospitable the caves are as an environment, getting anything at all to grow is a minor miracle. I doubt there are many weeds to worry about. In the Vahnatai lands, there are. The Vahanatai nation in the Northern Frontier is in a region of rich geothermal activity. Olgai is in an unusually lush area of Avernum. The natural Slith habitat is (by necessity) a region of rich geothermal activity and plentiful water heated by volcanic springs. So we see that the habitat of both species is similar if not the same-- the only difference is that the Vahnatai are indigenous to much, much deeper caverns than the Slith.

so I'd imagine that they'd propably have some kind of magically altered fungal species or moss to be able to use said plant species as pillow stuffings (if they use pillows in their slender, weird beds in the first place). Their beds don't have anything that look like pillows on them. They appear to be more like a sort of hammock made from interwoven fibers. I don't know if they bother to magically alter the plants that much or not. There are probably enough usable fibrous lichens for them to manufacture what they need. The hammock could likely be adjusted so that the head of the bed is raised. Since the caverns in Kingdom of Avernum's area shows visible signs of Vahnatai having at least visited these caverns during some unspecified time in the near history Not all of them. There are plenty of "ancient" ruins in A5. Maybe these (un)intentionally planted species are used by avernumian settlers to their own purposes? Depends on which species you speak of. I would imagine that if such data exists in the series, that it would be found in the original A2, but I haven't gotten the original 1st Avernum trilogy ust yet (thus have only played the demo, and that was some time ago) In addition to plant fibers, I should remind everyone not to forget about the various uses for sinew (tendon) by humans in the past. It was, for instance, the most commonly used material to bind spear or arrowheads to their shaft. Sinew is rubbery when fresh, but if specially prepared correctly, it can become either like cord or like rawhide.

The fact that you mentioned Parkinson's makes it even more important that you see a professional (preferrably a psychologist) about this. While it is highly unlikely that it is a contributor, you'll want to rule out the possibility that it is causing neurological effects that are directly affecting your behavior or perception. Like I said, highly, highly doubtful, but you just want to err on the safe side. I also have an imaginary friend, who I actively peddle up and down the pages of Linked In. He is a donkey. Yes, that's right, a donkey. His name is Hotay. He is the ass kicking ass from La Mancha. Now there are quite a few who know how he came by his name from what I have just written. For you who are still young ( Slarty, even though you may feel young at heart, you are still in the first group.) If I tell you that he is the donkey named Hotay, I may get a few more light bulbs. Eh, I'm not weirded out. I used to go to Portal of Evil (defunct but great links archive to strange, crazy, or just plain f'd up websites), and they encountered stuff like otherkin, soulbonded, and even OTAKUKIN. Hell, there was one otherkin-- he was mostly more sane and at least not anti intellectual and pretentious like most internet otherkin back then, but uh... Well, he had an adopted imaginary friend dragon or something like that daughter (she was basically a soul without a body) and an imaginary dragon roomate (same) The dragon wasn't alright in the head, and one day, the dragon murdered his adopted daughter. I don't recall precisely what happened after that except that the dragon I think ran off and was never seen again. He has been devastated ever since but forgives the dragon. The guy's name is Baxil, if you want to read his story or something. A common theme with the otherkin is that they usually choose a magnificent creature (fairy, dragon, elf, werewolf, angel, griffin), and it always had a magnificent or glorious life-- e.g. the dragon otherkins were almost always a general, diplomat, or something to that effect. They never choose the ugly or lowly creatures like trolls. Another common theme is that their real life selves... tend to be loser-ish or simply plain the opposite of their otherkin soul (e.g. it seems like dragon kin are always short, non-muscular, and fairly to severely overweight. Also, I remember one guy on Portal of Evil who said that he knew a 'kin in middleschool who believed he was an Ent. Said kid was also the shortest student in the classroom) So yeah, I don't find yours all that odd at all.

BTW, I apologize if I mentioned it already, but for those interested in said logistics and worldbuilding like Thaluikhain, I would recommend the book "Plants of the Pacific Northwest Coast" by Lone Pine publishing. It is a field guide to Cascadian plants (Canadian term for the Pacific Northwest west of the Cascades, stretching from the SWmost corner of the Alaskan mainland all the way down to mid Oregon) This book mentions a lot of the uses the Cascadian Amerindians of the Canadian part of this climate zone (southwesternmost BC mainland, Queen Charlotte Island, and Vancouver Island) used various plants for. It has long been the favorite field guide book for hikers and horticulturists around here. You will need to combine this with compiled data on plant families (you can gather it into a worddoc from data gleaned from Wikispecies)

Oh, yeah, and in that encounter with Alwan and Greta I brainstormed, you also have the following dialogue options: --You don't like Alwan very much, do you?" I can't remember what I thought Greta's reaction might be. I think she either dodged the question or Alwan interrupted her before she could say anything (telling her not to answer them because it was none of their business) --You don't like Greta very much, do you? Alwan: That is no business of yours. The other option, not sure about the exact line, but it involves making a statement or asking a question that involves labelling their argument as a "lover's quarrel". The text would be the same no matter which you were talking to. They both stare at you in shock, and their faces turn red. They can't believe you just said that. Greta turns away from you in a huff. Alwan has finally had enough of your intrusion. "Get out! Get out now!" this ends the conversation, though you can still talk to them, and still choose that line whenever you want > It doesn't have an actual effect on anything. The first game in the trilogy, I pictured taking place between G1 and G2, and begins with you being a rookie (naturally) and traveling with a captain who teaches you some basic stuff, as usual. On the way back to a Sholai port, something completely unrelated and seemingly not-very-important happens that sets the whole plot for the game. Third game probably takes place some time after G5, with the Trakovite ending (seems like the most logical ending for the series) You never get to explore Terrestria, though you do get to explore a few of the Shaper-controlled islands. Plus there would always be a rebel or mad shaper in each game that you can take out (probably as a bonus in two games, and part of the plot in one-- first game in the trilogy would obviously be a bonus region on an island.) There wouldn't be traits like in Avernum (the system would be closer to that of Geneforge) or as many classes (you have a choice of 2 of each class type-- 2 warriors, 2 skill monkeys, and 2 spell-casters. The skill monkeys have only moderate weapon skills save that the Scout is your missile weapons user. Also, there would be more misc skills in this game than Geneforge or Avernum-- e.g. in addition to the three Geneforge skills, you also get Nature Lore, First Aid, and Naval Lore-- naval lore handles the ship combat mode along with most of the seafaring hazards and post-battle ship repairs. First Aid and Leadership would both be needed since this series would emphasize exploration more than Geneforge. Nature Lore would work like it does in Avernum.) Yeah, just my fantasy that I'm sure would never happen Also, regarding items, where is the cheese and milk? Avernum and Avadon need cheese. Why is there no cheese? Do they have a problem with cheese? I know they have a cheese 3D model because one of the products used in the games is an ancient food pack that included a wedge of cheese (it happens to be where the bread model used from the original A1 to G5, along with the fruit model used from G1 onward comes from, so it's not an issue of being too low poly or anything like that.)

You can sell those items by putting a bunch of them in your junk bag. You'll get a few coins for them in bulk even though you can't sell them one at a time. The items I mentioned should be worth more than 3 coins per dozen, though. Also, I thought that rule only applied to Avadon, not Avernum.

Also while fantasizing about a Sholai trilogy (what? I have a vivid imagination that doesn't have an on/off switch-- which BTW does not make for a good combo when I'm suffering from delusions when upset.) I pictured the 2nd game taking place during G3, and a point where you get stuck in Dhonal W. Keep. So, appearances from Alwan and Greta (your character is off snooping around for a secret entrance to Inner Keep or something like that by him/herself, because people were getting more suspicious when the three of them snooped around together, plus Alwan sucked at stealth) You meet them at the bar, and unlike the original G3, they manage to get a room, which is where they are right now >_> You get a forced dialogue where Alwan acts nervous and agitated, which leads to the two of them are arguing about being worried about the shaper being gone for so long. After that, if you talk to them, Alwan is defensive and hostile towards you (mainly because you broke into their room) while Greta is fascinated with you because you're foreign explorers/adventurers and thus exotic. When you talk to her, Alwan keeps quipping at her for talking to you. She wants to help you out with your situation, which Alwan gets after her for, esp. for so much as thinking about going off alone with these shady foreigners. In a later cut scene she helps you sneak onto your ship somehow (the idea is supposed to be that it's nighttime, though graphically it's probably not). As you begin to sail away, you see Alwan rush to the scene. When he realizes what has just happened, he charges across the dock with the intent of boarding your ship, but then he realizes the futility (you're already too far away) and comes to a stop on the pier-- then he draws his blade and takes a defensive position in front of Greta while yelling at her (he actually thinks THAT lowly of you, that you would try to kill someone who just helped you in cold blood) As you get further away, you see a third figure rush to them (you figure this person is your leader, but the narration mentions you're too far away to make much out of the shaper's physical appearance.) Also, when talking to Greta, one of the choosable dialogue lines is suggesting that she come with you. She is very tempted-- and Alwan is briefly tempted as well, but she declines. Also, during the forced convo where they argue, they play the blame game over whose fault it is that they have to stay behind. Alwan says it's her fault because of how shady she looks and acts, and she retorts that he has the stealth and subtlety of an exploding mine. Also, I know I'm being a broken record, but the fewer and fewer sellable objects really agravates me-- it's worse and worse each subsequent game. Ever since Avadon 1, it's gotten really redundant because only a few mundane items are salable-- it gets pretty old when the only non-usable items you shove into your junk bag (that amount to cash that is) are crystals and gems... This is esp. true in Avernum, where trade items would be big money. These are the following things that SHOULD be saleable (according to real life!!) --Blankets (seriously, and why are they not stackable? What kind of idiot doesn't know how to stack blankets?) --Bolts of cloth-- I miss the original A1~3 bolts of cloth of varying quality. --Booze, even low quality crap. I mean someone will buy it. --Board games-- chess boards/pieces are often made from carved semiprecious stone (should be saleable in Avadon, too. Dice I can understand not being sellable-- most die are made from bone, and not ivory, after all.) --Clay bricks I think. These aren't fired clay, BTW, this is workable clay, and it should be stackable. --I can't remember, are sacks of grain sellable in the newer games? Because these are trade items, as well. --Seems like ink should be worth a coin or two. Whether it's processed from animals or extracted from lichens, the labor involved in its manufacture should be worth something. --Pipes probably should be sellable again, like they were in G4. After all, it's drug periphenalia. In Avernum. Also, it was not uncommon IRL prior to the 20th century for pipes to be carved from semiprecious materials such as meerschaum, ivory, or exotic woods. --Baskets and boards should be stackable, as should whips.

I liked the challenge of the encumberance system, though.

Yes, because unless your playing the shaper packhorse, you need to constantly check to see that you aren't carrying too much and can no longer attack. So? But then, I played Ultimas 6 and 7 to hell prior to playing Geneforge games, so I'm used to dealing with weight limits. And it's certainly preferable to 4/5ths of the items in the game being completely useless. At least in Ultima 7 you could interact with lots of different mundane items (even if the interaction was mundane, such as splashing buckets of water or blood on someone) Meh, I just don't like it when features are removed in later games/versions of software. Lots of things were saleable up to A4 and then damn near everything that isn't a mineral or an equippable becomes useless, and it just gets worse and worse with each SS game (i.e. items that you could sell in one game become unsellable in the next, so that 98 out of 100 misc items cannot be sold. It's beyond annoying as hell.) Also, I'm still miffed that you can't sell booze or blankets, as these ARE IRL trade items-- plus blankets SHOULD be stackable, seriously. Yeah, it's a serious nitpick I have. As I've said before, these really seem like minor things. Really? gold limit and lack of coloradjusted items in inventory aren't worse? Or the item menu layout? (which is in the first 3 Avernums as well-- horrible because you have to scroll up and down your inventory plus it's impossible to tell if you're near your item limit unless you count manually) Granted, a large part of my problem with the GP limit is that I liked to stock a shopkeeper's inventory based on theme etc. In G1/2 I always ended up having to reload at an earlier time because I accidentally sold one of my enchanted items (usually one of my elemental rings) because they're the same color as the gold and silver rings.

Man, is the weight thing truly what people find the most annoying about G1~2? I liked the weight thing, personally, as it adds more challenge. I'm more annoyed by the item limit in each game (even 4 where fewer items are saleable)

It certainly less... convenient GF1 and 2 are worse, for the reasons I mentioned, minus the melee combat thing. Oh, one thing I forgot: The desert ground tiles will hurt your eyes-- I don't know what they're like in the G1 graphics patch, but unless that patch can be used for G2 as well, then you might want to wear sunglasses while traversing the Taker lands. You get used to most of it eventually, though. (the glaringly bright desert sands, not so much)

I never go by title.

I guess the TC lost interest... Is Geneforge 3 really THAT bad? I mean, he couldn't wait to get all the endings in G5...

You guys must not be very good at searches, then. Years of mastering search engine searches helps, and if all else fails, just use them (the search engine) to find what you need. Don't give up just because it takes more than 10 minutes.

Same here. I actually liked the encumberance ststem, namely because you could sell a lot more stuff, but also because it took all the challenge away from juggling encumberance with defense-- you can have very little strength and have more than enough of a weight limit to wear everything I need. Also, I find it absurd that you can't sell ale and wine-- those are trade items in any civilization, right there, same with blankets and rolls of cloth. If you can sell sacks of grain, then you should be able to sell blankets and booze. I mentioned in your G3 thread all the huge improvements that took place between G2 and G3 (only disad, and it's a major one, is the loss of the ability to still move if you have AP left over-- e.g. if you attack with 8 AP, then you have 3 AP left to move away) All of the improvements I could think of are listed in one of if not my most recent post in your thread. Especially the most annoying popup after I just received a quest telling me exactly what I was just told. Hell yes, this.

The coloradjust system changed between G3 and A4. Sounds like maybe Jeff changed it again for G5 *looks* It is indeed 128 in G5 as well. (for example, Alwan and Greta have the same coloradjust in G3 and G4, but in G3 you can't tell, because the coloradjust system in G3 is different and more subtle-- so much so that some coloradjust digits don't change a single pixel at all)

The ivory skull actually has a coloradjust of 128, but I have no idea what that actually does to the monster/item. On the ivory skull, obviously not much. If it bothers you, then just make a backup of the itemchars script, then change the coloradjust of the ivory skull to something else. At the moment I am too lazy to see if there is a number that will make it similar but lighter or slightly darker.

I don't think it's ever directly addressed in-game, but a reasonable explanation would be that serviles need a significant amount of knowledge and judgement in order to do their jobs well, and that isn't easy to just shape into something. If you create a drakon, it can function just fine in combat with just its instincts and the orders you give it, but even serviles intended for manual labour would be a lot less efficient if they needed constant supervision from the shaper who created them. This is actually bolstered by the text in the Ruined School in Geneforge 1, where it talks a bit about how serviles are raised and educated. For additional evidence,

Hyena, I've recently binged on 2-5 and I think it's clarified somewhere that shades aren't the same as the ghosts of the dead. Not true. The text in the crystal cave in G2 says specifically: There are shades haunting these chambers. Shades are insubstantial magical creatures. They have human form, but are not always ghosts. Sometimes, they form naturally and spontaneously in areas with high natural magic. In other words, "shade" is a very broad category of essence-based beings with quasi-physical bodies. This includes ghosts of the dead, "essence shades" (essence constructs used to relay messages), thahd shades, natural (crystal) shades, etc. As for Thahd shades, I am aware that they are not thahd ghosts. They are thahds created in shade-form. why has no-one quick-Shaped humans from scratch? Presumably this would be quite forbidden, for multiple reasons. Though it is only explicitly stated that augmenting humans/shaping already-existing humans (presumably this includes the unborn as well, though Jeff goes out of his way to keep children out of his post-A3 games) is forbidden (it doesn't say anything about shaping one into existence) I think the answer is that they can't be quick Shaped, they're more resource intensive. The games say multiple times throughout that they can be Shaped, but that it's so intensive that it's easier to just let them reproduce naturally. That, too. Serviles are the same way.

I still don't see a difference between your two examples.

About cheating: I was thinking to semi-cheat, and reduce the weight of living tools. It's 1lb/tool now! I didn't find an editor. If anyone knows an editor that can reduce the weight of living tools, I would be thankful. YOu can change the weight in the G3itemchars.txt. BTW, the living tools weigh the same in G1 and 2. Greenwood and Harmony are boooring and bland. Maybe if you ever play G1&2 you'll understand Harmony and Dhonal are my favorite isles, partly because of Harmony Isle's atmosphere. The background noise is definitely the best swamp BGM of any geneforge game (though I haven't played 5 yet) No rep involved there. Just a thahd skin tunic you may miss if you let them go. Also, please trust me on xp, it really doesn't matter when you "miss" some in the beginning. Or, use a speed pod, carefully place yourself/companions close to the bridge, and the split second the dialogue ends, initiate combat and attack the thahds with icy crystals before they can escape, like I do. Also, I ration my kills-- e,g, I go through areas and kill the worms, thahds, and fyoras first and unlock the low level doors. Then I save the higher level doors and artilias for later. Yeah, you can split items. Just hold the down the Shift key as you click the stack. Yup, just like in G4.

You should. Seriously. Golems, Shades, Turrets, and Spinecores are immune, but everything else can be affected. Yeah, aside from physical attacks getting nerfed, G3 is such a huge improvement over G2/1 in many ways, and not just the graphics. 1. As mentioned earlier, if you use a spellbook or canister to improve a skill, then that counts as a "trained level" in G1 and G2. So always make sure to buy two levels in a spell before using a book or canister. 2. No shift key + click item function, so every time you pick a stacked item up/drop a stacked item, it will ask you how many to pick up/drop. 3. Geneforge 3 was the first SS game in which items could be coloradjusted. In other words, in G1 and G2, all the equipment is the same color, and there are fewer equipment sprites (excepting spores), so a lot of weapons/armor/gems/etc. use the same sprite, same color. 4. Geneforge 3 is also the first SS game in which you can put items in containers. So... have fun dropping everything you don't carry with you on the floor. I'm not kidding here. You can take things out of boxes/chests/etc., but you can't put them (back) in. 5. Think it's annoying that G3 doesn't tell you how much damage is resisted? In G1/2, you aren't even told what type of damage is inflicted! 6. What was mentioned earlier-- in G1.2, there is limited money in the game. Each shop has a limited amount of money. So when you buy something from them, they gain money, and when you sell something to them, they lose money. Eventually, they will run out of money. Esp. since IIRC you can get spoils from spawned creatures you killed (you can also farm experience from them, so go nuts.) 7. The item menu interface is annoying. It's not a separate window-- instead, it's a window on the side, that you scroll up/down. This makes it impossible to tell if you've reached your item # limit until you try to pick something else up. 8. Worst of all-- In G1 (but thankfully not G2), the data on which doors you unlocked is not saved when you leave/re-enter a zone. So each time you enter, you have to unlock everything all over again. Oh, and did I mention that you can only unlock a door one tool at a time? In other words, if you need to use 4 living tools, then you have to actually use living tools 4 times. I'm serious. At least there is an unlock spell... BTW, make sure to play as a Guardian in G2-- Parry is totally broken in this game-- it gives something like 4 or 5% parry rate per skill level.

It was partially explained in Geneforge 2 in Ellarah's crypt (or whoever's crypt that was)There are ways to create creations that are shades. In G3, there is a creature called a "Thahd Shade", which is of the Mindless rather than Creation type (Creature Type 3 instead of 1) There was no undead category prior to G4, and G4's itemchars.txt file lacks a thahd shade, but it's most likely supposed to be undead. I do not recall where they appear in G2 and G3, though.In G4 the only undead are the shade type (though I think there are some unique/boss/zone-specific enemies of the undead type)None of the other G2 or G3 monsters outside of the Shade type appear to be shades. ghosts, with the context the soul of dead people isn't exactly explained well aside from they exist. Actually, it is explained several times.Shades can be created naturally/spontaneously from strong concentrations of magic. These were never souls of the dead, and are typically more blob-like than humanoid. Shades of the dead can be created in various ways-- one way is similar to the natural shades, except that this occurs when a corpse is exposed to such magics, or someone is killed by powerful magics. G1 has this to say: Shapers don't usually like to have the dead so close to their work. It can have unpredictable results. G3 has this to say about the spirits in Phasia's Workshop: You can't be sure whether these shades were created by the leaking magic of the smelter or some sinister spell of the traitors that murdered them. All you know is that something has caused the spirits of those who died to be stuck here. Which brings up the second cause of spirits of the dead-- necromancy. Which the shapers have barred. There is also a third cause, in which sage-like characters (such as Thithin in G3) remain in the world of the living for the purpose of self-contemplation.

am lvl 9 with 6 mechanics, 6 leadership and I am clearing out stuff that Litalia couldn't be bothered to clear from her lair. Her shade dropped by and told me as much. Oh, wow, you missed out on so much! I told you to beef those up to 10 ASAP! You missed like 150 xp from convincing the Thahds to leave the Captured Bridge among other goodies. Forget boosting any other stats until you get your leadership to 8 and your mechanics to at least 7. Also, you're following my advice on making sure you always get a red crystal from the crystal formations, right? If not, then you're missing out on a lot of moola-- same with making sure to only kill the spawners that drop 3 objects (save the game, kill all the spawners, make a mental note of which ones drop all three gems, then load the game up and only kill the spawners that drop all three, avoiding the others. Come back later and repeat this process, only killing those that drop these goodies) You get insane amounts of XP on the first island from picking locks (but make sure to postpone whichever locks you can that require 3 or more tools until it's higher) I wouldn't bother raising mechanics above 10, I think it's a waste IMO. Leadership, OTOH, I would raise to 11, as this will save you the trouble of buying the charm spell, which will save you at least 2000 gold, which you can spend on augmentations on the final island and at the Monastary, instead. Starting with a session with the teachers and the other students so that we actually may care when they die later.I mean, did you care about those dead unnamed teachers ? Remember what Greta asks you about in South End, whether it is right to kill a mishapen creation or nor ? Could have actually shown that. Stuff like that could have improved things, but then Jeff seemed unusually constrained for time with G3 judging from the amount of stuff that is only half implemented. Ugh, I'm rambling. Better go back to Gull and finish the rebels I think Jeff was rightfully concerned that players would have found this annoying, as it would have postponed the REAL gameplay by quite a bit. Trust me, long game intros can be aggravating (looks at Star Ocean 2nd Story as an extreme example) But yes, I agree that a little bit of this would have been cool, and if there is a remake, then hopefully the school will be much bigger, and you start out the day before the attack, free to roam around some places and talk to people, and ending the day by getting the formula wrong (hopefully you'll just get the entire thing in a cut scene rather than having to manually go to bed) In the "what do you wish to see in the remakes" thread, I said it would be cool to have more survivors, and a possible side-quest of repairing the school, which consists of an additional two regions in the game (arboretum and second floor-- and getting access to some of the collapsed areas as you repair the school) The plot reason for repairing it being that most of the remaining students are injured. Compared to the day before of course, there wouldn't be very many survivors. Like-- 4 unwounded non-stock characters, 2 or 3 wounded stock characters, and several stock wounded and stock guards) If you picture the place as being A1~2 remake 2/3rds of The Castle-level large (disclaimer: I have only played the remake demos, so I'm simply making assumptions here based on A6)