canisters

[Upon Mars.]

okay, so cans are made to increase the potential of any shaper moving a long or any other being. BUT DOSEN'T IT WOUNDS THE MIND peapole once having used the geneforge don't get crazy? and do canisters make you mad ? my qestion is do canisters destroy your mind?

[Andraste]

Yeah, the Canisters mess with your head.

It looks like you've had a few too many yourself.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

This is a common misconception. Canisters and the geneforge don't "wound your mind." They slowly perfect it, giving you clarity as it grants you the ability to see the world for what it really is. As your physical strength and powers grow, so must your mind in order to keep up with these powers. It gives you ambition, and a winning mindset. What good are the powers they give you if you do not have the will to use them? After all, why should you ever be talked down to by beings lesser than yourself? People who are foolish enough to do so deserve death, and your new brain assures they get what they deserve. Only with this new outlook on the world can you find your place in it, and that place is on the top, ruling over others, not listening to their endless babble.

[Randomizer]

Too many canisters used results in a loss of control. Your brain gets rewired so you react without being able to control yourself. Dealing with others that question you in any way usually makes you mad and kill them.

 

ET - you would kill your underlings for slow reactions to your orders or even asking you for clarification. You no longer have any ability to keep your temper in check to find out that you forgot to tell them which rebellious village to wipe out. After seeing your reaction, the minions will split into those that will overdo your orders just to be sure they got at least what you want done and those plotting to eliminate you before you kill them.

[Sudanna]

Although in Geneforge 4, Litalia was apparently able to train herself to become sane and normal again. Nalyd wonders how many therapists died doing that.

 

Emperor Tullegolar - Nalyd usually stands with your ideals, but not here. Nalyd views anything that can become addictive, or that changes the mind in some way as inherently dangerous. How easy would it be for someone to slip a little poisonous essence into those canisters of yours, eh? The canisters also inspire overconfidence, which will soon lead any leader to death. The eliminate the possibilty of diplomacy in many cases, and stop you from garnering anything but hatred or fear from the unaltered around you.

[Micawber]

I was talking to Tuldaric recently (as you do) and the thought went through my mind, "he reminds me of Emperor Tullegolar".

 

There's something not right, there. I need to get out more...

 

Quote:

Tuldaric:

They slowly perfect it, giving you clarity as it grants you the ability to see the world for what it really is. As your physical strength and powers grow, so must your mind in order to keep up with these powers. It gives you ambition, and a winning mindset. What good are the powers they give you if you do not have the will to use them? After all, why should you ever be talked down to by beings lesser than yourself?

Quote:

Tullegolar:

What you are seeing is the clarity that comes from my reshaping. On Sucia Island, we discovered devices that could change us, make us purer, stronger. And with that change came mental purity. The more canisters you use, the purer you feel, the less patience you have for the inferior. Such mental clarity is to be welcomed.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Micawber:

 

Quote:

There's something not right, there.

Well, you did mislabel the quotes.

 

Oh, you mean with Emperor Tullegolar? Probably, but a few unsellable trowels like him are unavoidable.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Nioca]

Quote:

Nalyd's Signature:
Die soon and starve.

Awwww.

Seriously, though, have you had any canisters today? Because that signature seems a little backwards.

Quote:

Litalia was apparently able to train herself to become sane and normal again. Nalyd wonders how many therapists died doing that.

Well, if she trained herself, the therapist casualty numbers are probably low. Innocent lackeys... not so low.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Randomizer:
After seeing your reaction, the minions will split into those that will overdo your orders just to be sure they got at least what you want done and those plotting to eliminate you before you kill them.

Excellent, I approve. The first group pleases me greatly, they show initiative, and I like that! The second group is good as well, as they will keep me on my toes at all times. It is important for such leaders to be kept constantly alert, it makes me stronger. Should they ever actually succeed (doubtful) then I simply got what I deserves for letting my guard down.

Nalyd: Everyone is overconfident in the Geneforge world. I don't see how any other group would have an advantage over me.

Tuladric: Don't compare me with that Awakened scum! Tuladric enjoyed his fair share of canisters, so it is no wonder he saw the same purity of thought that I do. But we have totally different political views: I see the danger in letting creations run rampant, and he did not. That's why he is dead now. The failure.

Quote:

Originally written by Nioca:
that signature seems a little backwards

It makes perfect sense, considering who Nalyd is.

[Aequitas]

Quote:

Originally written by opon mars:
okay, so cans are made to increase the potential of any shaper moving a long or any other being. BUT DOSEN'T IT WOUNDS THE MIND peapole once having used the geneforge don't get crazy? and do canisters make you mad ? my qestion is do canisters destroy your mind?

If you have played any of the Geneforge games and actually read the little conversation windows, you would realize that, yes, canisters drive you way down Insane Alley.

And your spelling is killing me. I can barely understand what you are trying to say.

[Good Canisters]

I really like canisters. I'm pro canisters, regardless of whatever opinion I need to make. I usually play powergamer type with all canisters, all alterations, and if possible, use the Geneforge.

[Micawber]

Quote:

Originally written by Dikisaurus:

Quote:

Originally by Micawber:
There's something not right, there.

Well, you did mislabel the quotes.

I knew what I was writing.
Anyone ever read Private Eye?

[Upon Mars.]

okay but man has to much power and not enough clarity .

And i think that the shapers even if they knew how to improve the mind they would only see all that they achieved was nothing and will continue to destroy to kill and to conquer and they will continue as they always did.

 

Man kind is deluded by it's one self by his own will and by his own control.

 

That is probably why we are here today thinking about the future looking at the past and forgetting the present.

[Alberich]

GC, I, by contrast, am a Canister Prohibitionist and think the good old Temperance ballads -

 

http://www.pdmusic.org/winner/sw74tsp.txt

 

- should be rewritten in a canister context.

 

Don't use canisters, dear brother

Let thy footsteps follow mine

To the schoolbooks and the trainers -

Don't adopt the glowing shine.

Purchase training at the fortress,

Better far is that for thee.

Slay creations by the thousand -

Get thy skills with clean XP.

 

CHORUS

Stay thy hand from them, dear brother,

Don't bulk up and tempt the fates

Try some target practice, swimming,

Self-help books and lifting weights.

 

O, use not those foul canisters

Though thy spells will boom and bang;

Thoul't slay thy friends (and sisters!)

And will never feel a pang.

Canisters instill a factor

Most unhealthful to thy pride.

Honest study builds character --

Leads to less sororicide.

[Nioca]

I believe that canisters should be used, but only in moderation.

[Good Canisters]

Quote:

Originally written by Alberich:
GC, I, by contrast, am a Canister Prohibitionist and think the good old Temperance ballads -

http://www.pdmusic.org/winner/sw74tsp.txt

- should be rewritten in a canister context.

Don't use canisters, dear brother
Let thy footsteps follow mine
To the schoolbooks and the trainers -
Don't adopt the glowing shine.
Purchase training at the fortress,
Better far is that for thee.
Slay creations by the thousand -
Get thy skills with clean XP.

CHORUS
Stay thy hand from them, dear brother,
Don't bulk up and tempt the fates
Try some target practice, swimming,
Self-help books and lifting weights.

O, use not those foul canisters
Though thy spells will boom and bang;
Thoul't slay thy friends (and sisters!)
And will never feel a pang.
Canisters instill a factor
Most unhealthful to thy pride.
Honest study builds character --
Leads to less sororicide.

That is an excellent ballad.

I would not use canisters, provided that:

1. I'm a Loyalist Extremist.
2. There are a lot of good, cheap trainers (e.g. Gretchen and Khyrhk.)
3. I have (Loyalist) access to powerful spells and creations, e.g. ability to shape drayks, cryodrayks, ur-glaahks, and spells such as essence orbs and strong daze.
4. It would be a bonus to be allowed to have alterations or otherwise be shaped.
5. An added bonus if I could use the Geneforge without losing my humanity and going insane.
6. It would also be a bonus to have a good ending .

[Lord Safey]

If become power hungry you need to go all out. When you make everyone your enemy then it is porably a good idea to get all the cansiters and modifcations you can get your hands on. If you stick with one group then its proably I good idea to stick with their ideals. The problem with the mindset canisters and the genoforge give you is that you can't trust anyone and makes life real complicated.

[Alberich]

LS, that's a bit of a positive feedback loop, though, isn't it? If you're going to make everyone your enemy, use canisters - if you use canisters, you make everyone your enemy...

 

GC, thanks for the compliment, but, O, sinner, what conditions you place on virtue! There would be no moral problem to wrestle with if you could get just as much just as easily without sinking into the foul embrace of Demon Canister.

 

Every ending so far has given me at least a little hat tip for staying canister-free (even if it's just telling me that I can hold up my hand and see that I stayed fully human). I'm no shaper extremist, but I always end up with them because, hell, no, I won't glow!

[The Mystic]

In G1, I'm a major canister junky; for the most part, you have to be in order to survive.

 

In G2 & G3, I only do as much as will go unnoticed by other Shapers (which, I admit, isn't much).

[Sudanna]

In game, Nalyd uses canisters depending on what side he's on. Rebel - Sometimes, Shaper - Never.

 

In the not-so-immortal words of Spock, Live long and prosper.

In the only-slightly-less-immortal words of Nalyd, Die soon and starve.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by Alberich:
(even if it's just telling me that I can hold up my hand and see that I stayed fully human)

Why hinder yourself with the frailties of a human form? It is your birthright to be able to shape yourself! It is the next step in evolution. Those that die along the way die so that the strong may live, they die so that the species as a whole can grow and be stronger. To reject the canisters is to doom the whole world to mediocrity and endless sqabbles over the petty things like politics.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
To reject the canisters is to doom the whole world to mediocrity and endless sqabbles over the petty things like politics.

The drakons are really big on the whole better-living-through-chemistry deal, and they don't exactly seem to have moved past petty politics.

[Sudanna]

The ability to shape oneself isto unnatrally deviate or speed up the process of evolution beyond what the mind can cope with. To Shape yourself improves body and power, but not the mind. The result is an insane monstrosity with enormous power. If the entire world were made upof such things, then everything would become blackened and charred, a volcanic and twisted remnant of what everything was.

 

The new beings will have the power to change it back to green and health, but their minds will have decayed too far to be able to recognize the need to.

[Upon Mars.]

In that casei will use more canisters and invade earth !!!

 

http://www.waroftheworldsonline.com/jwmartianconcept.jpg

i huger for more canisters.

[Good Canisters]

Get the best of both sides! Be a Loyalist who uses all canisters, gets all alterations and shapes them self. Then, after 5-6 canisters, use the the Shift-D and put in this: sdf 100 4 0. That is the sdf that says you used 0 canisters. Make sure you also use that before you leave the islands via boat (endgame).

 

If you can't stand to cheat at all, then don't use this sdf. Its not really a cheat, or have I ever tested it, but it might work.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by Thuryl:
The drakons are really big on the whole better-living-through-chemistry deal, and they don't exactly seem to have moved past petty politics.

Here's the problem. You've made the fatal error of comparing humans and creations. Creations, no matter how much shaping or evolution you apply, will never amount anything culturally significant.

[Nioca]

Hmm. I'm not a big fan of canisters, because the price is too steep for the rewards. However, there are a couple of experiments I would like to see done, simply to sate my curiosity.

 

First, using canisters as a form of accelerated evolution. Have several people use a canister, but not allow them access to further canisters. Then, have the next generation of the canister descendants use a canister, so on an so forth. This might be able to gradually increase the strength of a population while avoiding the detrimental effects on the mind.

 

Second, using canisters as a form of pre-programming someone's genes from birth. This might be able dodge the mental effects because the young body would (hopefully) be able to adapt to the change.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Nioca:
However, there are a couple of experiments I would like to see done, simply to sate my curiosity.

There is a little bit of mad scientist in all of us, it seems.

I don't fully understand how anyone (including Litalia) is able to 'adapt' to the changes in their bodies. If the canisters really effect your genes themselves, then anything that they do should be permanent. I don't understand how Litalia is able to control her new self, as that implies regressing her genes back to the way they were, somehow. You can't 'train' your genes, and you can't adapt without inside influence. Perhaps she used additional shaping methods?

When all else fails, shape some more! Is there anything shaping can't fix?

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
I don't understand how Litalia is able to control her new self, as that implies regressing her genes back to the way they were, somehow.

Anger management classes don't change your genes, but they can still change the way you react to situations.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Well then if it's that simple, what reason does anyone have at all not to use canisters?

[Randomizer]

Most people won't go through the effort to learn to control themselves including to stop using something that is making themselves worse. Consider all the people out there with drug habits, smoking, alcoholism, etc. who derive some benefit from doing something that is killing them. Considering that canister produce some sort of high as well as increased power it takes a strong will to stop,

 

As to the idea of using canisters on children in hopes that it will give them time to control themselves, you might just raise a group of sociopaths that have no moral control in spite of training.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

How dare you compare canisters to harmful drugs? They have no harmful effects whatsoever. Even if you consider the clarity of thought that the canisters give you as a negative, even then the positive effects are far more numerous.

 

I can not approve of the children idea. Canisters must be earned. Never given freely.

[Upon Mars.]

But all that power given to children!!!!

Are you nuts?

The mind of child is beryl capable to control it one self giving them power like that when mankind is on the verge of booing himself up come on !?

Bad parenting, society rotten stretch, and boredom is making people already mad and ill minded, so why give such power to a child ?

they are indeed harmful drugs.

 

OOPS caused again a mass extinction!

(good farted 65 million years ago)

[Good Canisters]

I think Shapers using canisters can show some control over how many they use, so I believe they can use 6. They should make 6 powerful canisters, so after learning from a trainer, they can gain 1 point to learn the upgrade of a creation. That could be a effective way for shapers to make creations and give themselves a great advantage.

[Lord Safey]

The problem with the geneforge and cansiters is it cause you to be jealous and parniod of anyone who is any where near your level of powet and if you have more then one person use the geneforge you have something called mutually assured destruction. This is or will be a serious problem the drakons and drayks are going to have. Thier are all power hungery, jealous, and parnoid. Should more then one use the geneforge you then you have something called mutally assured destruction.

[Good Canisters]

Quote:

Originally written by Lord Safey:
The problem with the geneforge and cansiters is it cause you to be jealous and parniod of anyone who is any where near your level of powet and if you have more then one person use the geneforge you have something called mutually assured destruction. This is or will be a serious problem the drakons and drayks are going to have. Thier are all power hungery, jealous, and parnoid. Should more then one use the geneforge you then you have something called mutally assured destruction.

It's already happened. If you play G3 as a rebel, look at the Isle of Spears. You'll see what I mean.

[Upon Mars.]

I think that the war is doomed.

The rebels have the power and the shapers have the number and a augmenting control over the situation.

[Lord Safey]

The shapers may be weaker then the rebels or the travokites but they don't need be as powerful becuase the other 2 groups are self destructive.

[*i]

Quote:

Get the best of both sides! Be a Loyalist who uses all canisters, gets all alterations and shapes them self. Then, after 5-6 canisters, use the the Shift-D and put in this: sdf 100 4 0. That is the sdf that says you used 0 canisters. Make sure you also use that before you leave the islands via boat (endgame).

Anything that uses the debug codes in regular gameplay would be considered cheating by any metric.

[Lord Safey]

huh?