GF3 teased

[Randomizer]

Three months is usually the minimum for Jeff to release the full game to beta testing starting with one week for the demo area and three weeks for each of the following sections. Queen's Wish had one week for the final battle area. The next month is polishing up the boss fights in the last areas. Then it's mostly final bug checks and documentation while Jeff submits a release candidate to Steam and other third parties for their approval.

 

After years of games, Jeff pretty much had the timing down. He has shifted Windows testing to occur at the same time from after Apple release and now has added iPod testing afterwards since he learned how to code for it and it has a strong demand.

[Genernumlover]

13 hours ago, alhoon said:

I expect actually expect GF3 to take as long as GF2, if not longer as there are story decisions to be made; it should in my opinion require more effort story-wise than GF2-I that had a good solid story and just needed additions and change to the text. 

 

The plot of Geneforge 3 is going to need more tweaking than Mutagen or Infestation, which mostly needed some content updates and additions. Geneforge 3 likely needs a third ending, one that clarifies more of what the protagonist did and why both Greta and Alwan don't want to speak of that Shaper.

 

 

 

[Amira The Hot Potato]

12 hours ago, Genernumlover said:

 

The plot of Geneforge 3 is going to need more tweaking than Mutagen or Infestation, which mostly needed some content updates and additions. Geneforge 3 likely needs a third ending, one that clarifies more of what the protagonist did and why both Greta and Alwan don't want to speak of that Shaper.

 

 

 

It's funny because I was going to make a post about this. That always bothered me in G4+5. They kept mentioning how our character in GF3 did something wrong and made things hard but I could never figure it out and wondered if anyone here had some theories. I also don't remember what the canon ending of GF3 leading into G4 was.

Edited June 2 by Amira The Hot Potato

[alhoon]

The Cannon ending is apocalypse now. Diseases and rogues plague Terrestia as the Rebellion grows. It was glorious. Well, not for the people there. But you get my point. Shapers were caught unaware by the size of our Rebellion and entire cities and castles were liberated before they knew what hit them. 

 

My opinion on what bothers Alwan: Except perhaps the most pro-Shaper routes, you do things he disapproves of. 

My opinion on what bothers Greta: She is not a bad person. Even in your Pro-Rebellion route, you do crimes she disagrees with. <= I say that because the only realistic reason given for the PC to join the woman that killed his friends and classmates is for the power. The Rebels in GF3 are horrible and they make mad decisions. I mean, you already convinced Lankan to oppose the Shapers Litalia. You don't have to keep sending monsters to kill him with your answer to his pleas being "Look, I will remake you so that you will be strong enough to fight back. But the monsters will keep coming."  

 

Lankan is a moderate Barzhite, in my eyes. Do you see that guy with anger issues that wants his friends to sit in the mud after taking a few more cannisters, as someone that will treat Serviles and Creations he makes with the respect he didn't show the Common? After-cannister madness sets in? Or as bigger living tools and batons? 
And Litalia is encouraging this. 

Edited June 2 by alhoon

[Genernumlover]

10 hours ago, Amira The Hot Potato said:

It's funny because I was going to make a post about this. That always bothered me in G4+5. They kept mentioning how our character in GF3 did something wrong and made things hard but I could never figure it out and wondered if anyone here had some theories. I also don't remember what the canon ending of GF3 leading into G4 was.

 

The canon ending is that the Shaper of G3 joined the Rebels and helped conquer the isles before returning to the mainland to attack Shaper lands. If memory serves, that ending says that the protagonist gains the loyalty of the servile cultists that drive themselves mad to gain magic.

 

One explanation for the reactions of Alwan and Greta in G4 is that the main character joined the Rebels and eventually died in battle. That would leave Alwan and Greta reluctant to speak of the Shaper for differing reasons.

 

The catch is that the protagonist has no ideological reason to join the Rebels, as the Rebels slaughtered his or her friends, classmates, teachers, and attacked the protagonist relentlessly. That and they blamed him or her and the Shapers are at large for everything the Rebels did through the game. It is likely, as alhoon pointed out in the Sholai schemes thread, that the character of G3 joined the Rebels for power. That would lead to G4 Alwan being disgusted by the character and Greta horrified with the character's canister use.

 

 

[Amira The Hot Potato]

2 hours ago, Genernumlover said:

 

The canon ending is that the Shaper of G3 joined the Rebels and helped conquer the isles before returning to the mainland to attack Shaper lands. If memory serves, that ending says that the protagonist gains the loyalty of the servile cultists that drive themselves mad to gain magic.

 

One explanation for the reactions of Alwan and Greta in G4 is that the main character joined the Rebels and eventually died in battle. That would leave Alwan and Greta reluctant to speak of the Shaper for differing reasons.

 

The catch is that the protagonist has no ideological reason to join the Rebels, as the Rebels slaughtered his or her friends, classmates, teachers, and attacked the protagonist relentlessly. That and they blamed him or her and the Shapers are at large for everything the Rebels did through the game. It is likely, as alhoon pointed out in the Sholai schemes thread, that the character of G3 joined the Rebels for power. That would lead to G4 Alwan being disgusted by the character and Greta horrified with the character's canister use.

 

 

So in regards to Greta potentially feeling a way about canister uses, what happened between then and G4 because in G4 we're basically forced to use the geneforge and canister use seems encouraged 

[Genernumlover]

16 minutes ago, Amira The Hot Potato said:

So in regards to Greta potentially feeling a way about canister uses, what happened between then and G4 because in G4 we're basically forced to use the geneforge and canister use seems encouraged 

 

Greta thinks it is necessary, but she is uncomfortable with rushing the character to the Geneforge and is initially uneasy seeing them afterward due to the changes the Geneforge did. Greta, in both G3 and G4, tends to have a habit of trying to ignore the problems with Rebel tactics and instead focuses on the ideals the Rebels are supposed to be fighting for. A protagonist who is only out for power and is hooked on canisters would be a big issue for her. It'd be a stark difference from Greta's perception of Rebel Shapers and Lifecrafters as being idealists fighting for a better world.

Edited June 2 by Genernumlover

[alhoon]

4 hours ago, Genernumlover said:

Greta, in both G3 and G4,

And GF5, because in GF5 the same thing that happens to her in Northforge, happens again. She is mistrusted and kept imprisoned, because she is closer to the Awakened in ideology, than the Rebels. 

[Genernumlover]

1 hour ago, alhoon said:

And GF5, because in GF5 the same thing that happens to her in Northforge, happens again. She is mistrusted and kept imprisoned, because she is closer to the Awakened in ideology, than the Rebels. 

 

True, but she's also more willing to ignore wrongdoings by her faction than they were. I don't think the majority of the Awakened would ignore what the Rebels were doing in the Ashen Isles.

 

The issue with the Drakons was that they treated the human Rebels as being a useful tool at best and a burden at worst. They tolerated the serviles more., but life that wasn't a Drakon was just secondary to them. That eventually turned a lot of the Rebels against them.

 

Speaking of which, something I'd like to see in the remakes is a recurring and powerful Rebel servile leader. It always struck me as somewhat odd that the serviles let Ghaldring and Greta lead them, when they could have a leader of their own. I wonder if Vogel did that so that the player could have the servile character be the charismatic voice the serviles need.

Edited June 3 by Genernumlover

[alhoon]

1 hour ago, Genernumlover said:

 

The issue with the Drakons was that they treated the human Rebels as being a useful tool at best and a burden at worst. They tolerated the serviles more., but life that wasn't a Drakon was just secondary to them. That eventually turned a lot of the Rebels against them.

Yeap. Quite similar with the Drayks saying "we need to keep Drakons enslaved for their own good; then we will release them." or ignoring the plight of the Serviles in the barren area they chose. 

Edited June 3 by alhoon

[ultra112]

I mean we do know the Drayks are largely neutral or flat out uncaring to the serviles' cause in G1 Mutagen, the reason they are joining with them I believe is because the situation bit them in the a** as well, so they had to join them in order to save their own hides. If it weren't for that, they would most certainly not care at all. 

[alhoon]

7 hours ago, ultra112 said:

I mean we do know the Drayks are largely neutral or flat out uncaring to the serviles' cause in G1 Mutagen, the reason they are joining with them I believe is because the situation bit them in the a** as well, so they had to join them in order to save their own hides. If it weren't for that, they would most certainly not care at all. 

SOME of them joined. Others thought "who cares?" 

[ultra112]

On 6/2/2024 at 4:13 AM, Genernumlover said:

 

The plot of Geneforge 3 is going to need more tweaking than Mutagen or Infestation, which mostly needed some content updates and additions. Geneforge 3 likely needs a third ending, one that clarifies more of what the protagonist did and why both Greta and Alwan don't want to speak of that Shaper.

 

 

 

Yeah Jeff did say that there will be great changes to the story elements in G3.

[alhoon]

Years off... 

so it is A4.

[ultra112]

Maybe, but this was before G2 Infestation came out.

[Jawaj]

Jeff almost never does the same series twice in a row, that A4 and/or whatever he has planned for Queen's Wish would come first is expected. It sounds like QW (whether a third game, a small episode for 2, or something else) is a ways off though.

[Men are from Slars]

Yeah, SW has never done two games of the same series in a row, except for before SW had two multi-game series.

[TriRodent]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:55 PM, Jawaj said:

Jeff almost never does the same series twice in a row, that A4 and/or whatever he has planned for Queen's Wish would come first is expected. It sounds like QW (whether a third game, a small episode for 2, or something else) is a ways off though.

(Disclaimer: I haven't talked to Jeff, just what I've gleaned from interviews, AMA, etc ...)

 

A4 is most likely his next project.  QW3, in whatever form it finally takes, may even be pushed back to be after the project after A4 (presumably GF3remade).  He's stated that it didn't sell all that well compared to the other games.  With that in mind he'll probably need to build up a bit of a financial cushion before investing the time needed to wrap up QW.

 

The wrench in that theory is though that GF3 'really' needs reworked in multiple ways.  So if redoing that takes longer than expected, he may not have the cushion needed/wanted for QW3. In which case it may be fourth on his to do list off into the future (A4, GF3, A5).

 

Time will tell, but I wouldn't expect it for a few years (A4 & 5 18 months each, GF3 2 years).

[alhoon]

If A4-A5 take 18 months and GF3 is 2 years, then we're 5 years away from the wrap-up of the story of QW... with last instalment 2 years ago. 

[Men are from Slars]

According to alhoon's logic, new games don't take longer than remakes, so the same logic would suggest that a major reworking wouldn't take longer than a regular remake 😛

[alhoon]

56 minutes ago, Archaeolagent said:

According to alhoon's logic, new games don't take longer than remakes, so the same logic would suggest that a major reworking wouldn't take longer than a regular remake 😛

You are not wrong in that and according to what people said, and by people I mean beta testers and the developer, remakes take a bit less time. 3 new games and 4 remakes are simply put, not a big enough sample. 

 

2 years are long for even a new game by current standards, let alone reworking one. 

So, I would expect 32-35 months for A4-A5, another 18 months for GF3 and then the "bare minimum" (14 months) for QW-ending.  

Edited June 5 by alhoon

[TriRodent]

52 minutes ago, alhoon said:

 

2 years are long for even a new game by current standards, let alone reworking one. 

So, I would expect 32-35 months for A4-A5, another 18 months for GF3 and then the "bare minimum" (14 months) for QW-ending.  

18 months per remake was calculated as 2 months before programming to get the Kickstarter set up/going, basic plot outline for things above & beyond the original.  12 months for actual programming/reworking/rewriting.  & then 4 months for beta testing (might be into the tail end of the 12 programming months), bug fixes, getting games sent to Steam/GOG/etc, pre launch publicity, etc.  You might be able to shorten some of that time but it's probably measured in weeks rather than months.

 

2 full years for GF3 was calculated with all the rewriting of the original (plus whatever new elements he wants to put in).  It's not just a (relatively) simple update & go like the Avernums so far & GF1&2. So 18 for the rewrite (including the before & after work), & an additional 6 for the reworking of it.

 

I don't really know how Jeff works/how focused he is at doing just one thing at a time, but he very well could be outlining QW3/planning the story right now if/when he needs a mental break from the current game that he's working on. If so, that 'double dipping' (working on QW3 during A4 remake time) could greatly accelerate the eventual time frame (especially depending on how big he wants to make the final chapter be) and we'll see it somewhere in a couple of years ... or ... not until 2030...

 

 

[ultra112]

But what about the avadon remaster I remember he mention those somewhere

[Jawaj]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:53 AM, alhoon said:

You are not wrong in that and according to what people said, and by people I mean beta testers and the developer, remakes take a bit less time. 3 new games and 4 remakes are simply put, not a big enough sample. 

 

2 years are long for even a new game by current standards, let alone reworking one. 

So, I would expect 32-35 months for A4-A5, another 18 months for GF3 and then the "bare minimum" (14 months) for QW-ending.  

Avernum 5 isn't gonna come before Geneforge 3, you won't have to wait that long. Exactly what will happen with Queen's wish is up in the air, if it's a free add-on for QW2 I expect closer to 6 months than a year (Or maybe an actual third game will still happen after all, who knows).

Edited June 6 by Jawaj

[alhoon]

18 minutes ago, Jawaj said:

Avernum 5 isn't gonna come before Geneforge 3, you won't have to wait that long.

I am aware for that, I was talking about when I expect QW2-ending to come.