Exile 3 or Avernum3

[eyebalic]

About 7 years ago, I opened a small ox of cornpops (or whatever they're called) and pulled out a small cd. I put the cd into my computer to see what it was, and found around one-hundred demos of old pc shareware games.

 

Well, I skimmed down, and one certain one caught my eye, Exile 3. I played it, and loved it. ALTHOUGH, I was only 8 years old and my parents didn't trust anyone with a credit card back then

 

So...

 

I discovered the cd recently, and was brough here to this site, where I found out that Avernum was a remake of the trilogy... quadrilogy... whatever. I tried the Avernum 3 demo and didn't find it was fun.

 

So, for those who've beaten both games or played through them far, which one was better? I noticed alot of changes in gamestyle, like no dual-weilds in avernum 3 (what were they thinking)

 

However, I'd like to play the game with more features, and a more submersive style of gameplay. The four character limit doesn't seem to fun in avernum.

 

So I'd like to know, what's best in the long-run? Your opinion will affect what I buy, so, yeah.

[Lazarus.]

They're the same game for the most part, so the decision really comes down to which engine you prefer. I personally love E3, even though I prefer the avernum engine (mostly nostalgia value I suppose.) If it were E1/2 vs A1/2 I'd say Avernum without hesitating, but the E3/BoE engine, though old, is very smooth and enjoyable.

 

Oh and Jeff added more content for A3, though I can't think of anything really exceptional, mostly just small errand quests and such. Not a big deal as I recall.

 

So yeah, pick your engine.

[Starman1985]

A3 is my prefered choice, though only because E1-E3 Nethergate Original and BoE don't work on my computer.

[Arenax]

Have to second Lazarus. A1, A2, E3 -- that's how I recommend them to people.

[Redstart]

Another vote for Lazarus's recommendation. Exiles 1 and 2 were pretty rough around the edges while 3 was the first Spiderweb game I finished.

 

Based on what you said you liked about Exile, E3 has more of everything: Spells, weapons, skills, etc. It's also more challenging because of the dialogue system, where you need to look for keywords instead of just clicking through the options.

[The Mystic]

Quote:

Originally written by Redstart:
Exiles 1 and 2 were pretty rough around the edges while 3 was the first Spiderweb game I finished.

E3 was the first I finished too. Good game.

I still haven't bought A3 yet, so I can't say much about the full game, although I like the demo so far.

[Drakefyre]

Exile III has given me the most gameplay of any non-BoE game ... or maybe just as much! It's really a blast to play and re-play. I think that part of what's so good is that there's no forced early missions to go on, you can jump right in and go anywhere and tackle anything.

[ginger8445]

I haven't played any of the Exile games. I played the demos but didn't find them as fun so my top choice would definatly be A# or BOA if you have it on that disk.

[La paix]

You should also check out the Geneforge series. GF1 is excellent, and so is GF2. GF3 is not as good, but GF4 is a great, more modern game. Nethergate/N:R is also really good. BoE(Blades of Exile) has hundreds, maybe thousands of player-created scenarios to try. BoA doesn't have as many, but has lots of cool features and such. You should at least try all the games.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

I don't think we have anywhere near thousands of BoE scenarios, but we do have hundreds.

[Xaiya]

Hmm, is it really true that it is easier to make a scenario with BoE than BoA?

[Nioca]

Engine differences aside, it's a trade-off. BoE scenarios are easier to design, take less time, and take less effort to make a decent scenario. BoA, on the other hand, is far more flexible and powerful. Furthermore, more utilities are coming out to make BoA scenario design easier.

[Lazarus.]

Honestly I don't understand why this is, but both *i and TM say so, and I'm hardly in a position to refute them. Some thoughts on the issue.

 

It is easier to do simple tasks in BoE than in BoA (At least when you aren't proficient with noding or scripting. Once you are simple tasks are... well simple... regardless of engine.) However doing complex things with BoE is much more convoluted, and sometimes even impossible.

 

Town design in BoE is much easier. No terrains or heights.

 

NPC dialog in BoE is somewhat easier. Partly because of string and personality limits, partly because people generally didn't seem to put as much effort into it as is expected in BoA. For some reason BoA merchants need to spill their life stories to fulfill their purpose. BoE merchants sell stuff and send you on your way. (This has more to do with designing trends than the engines)

 

Apparently it's easier to learn noding than scripting, although I don't really understand why. I guess that huge index of calls is just overwhelming, even if only a select few are really vital.

 

So it comes down to BoE being the simpler engine. You can't do as much with it, so you aren't expected to do as much with it. You don't need to give every boss a Cool Custom Script, you just throw down a 4-square with some extra HP. You don't have to code the boat chase or special spell system, because it's just not possible. Those things can take hours, and leaving them out saves a lot of time (I still see no reason why a basic BoE scenario would be significantly simpler than a basic BoA scenario though.)

[Drakefyre]

For me (bad example, I know) it comes down to three things - town/outdoor design is much simpler, dialogue/monsters/items can be edited easier, and noding is *faster* than scripting. I don't know where you got some of the impressions you did - how in-depth merchants are has always been a designer decision and not a trend influenced by BoE/BoA.

[Starman1985]

Back to the original topic another reason i like Avernum better is the convesations are much less aggravating.

[macdude22]

Having not played Exile 3 extensively, nor in probably 10 years I'll have to go Avernum. However I am considering picking up the Exile Trilogy since I have sheepshaver working now. And if nothing it will round out a complete collection of Spiderweb Games.

[Xaiya]

Quote:

Furthermore, more utilities are coming out to make BoA scenario design easier.

Wha...there is more than one editor?!? What is the "best" right now?

[Lazarus.]

If you're on a Mac you can use Niemand's 3D editor. If you're on windows you're stuck with the regular 3D editor, which is still drastically better than the original. Plus there's Niemand's dialog editor, which is cross platform, and Niemand's averscript editor (If that's out yet. It's only Mac now and I think it's only in beta, but I think somebody was working on one for Windows too. Aran or WKS maybe?) There's Alint for both platforms, although it's command line for windows. Also there's astring (Also for both platforms? Not sure if it's for Mac.) Also there's Graphic adjuster by Niemand-- only for Mac (Starting to notice a trend here? *Shakes fist*)

 

That's about all the major ones that I can think of.

[Jawaj]

I think A1 and A2 are better than E1 and E2 - the first two Exiles are pretty rough around the edges in many ways. However, E3 is probably better than A3. It has a much more polished engine than the first two Exiles, has a lot more spells than A3, and is much better balanced than A3.

[Grindstone]

Quote:

However, E3 is probably better than A3. It has a much more polished engine than the first two Exiles, has a lot more spells than A3, and is much better balanced than A3.

uhm more balanced? How so?

If at all, one thing I like about the Avernum games is that they're more balanced than the Exile games, in part due to the reduction of spells

[olop4444]

I haven't actually played E3, per say(after dieing from fighting 3 goblins in E1 I kinda quit), but in A3 melee is ridiculously powerful.

[Grindstone]

Quote:

I haven't actually played E3, per say(after dieing from fighting 3 goblins in E1 I kinda quit), but in A3 melee is ridiculously powerful.

is the damage cap the same as in A1 and A2? Around 200 points if IIRC? At least on Torment, magic takes the cake any day as the enemies' magic resistances seem to increase only slightly, whereas they are significantly more resistant to physical damage as on Normal

[La paix]

Holy cow! Near one year topic necromancy!

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure you can't do more than 300 damage by weaponry. The way that physical damage is dealt has changed so much throughout the different Avernums. It is quite fascinating that in A1 you can hardly do ninety damage while in BoA, you can easily do hundreds. Does anyone know how damage is determined in all the games?

 

Also, I didn't know that the difficulty levels changed resistances. I've never noticed it before. Are you sure that's accurate? It would also be interesting to see exactly what the different levels of difficulty change (and how, for a learning programmer like me!). I must say that it is quite fascinating the way that this all turns out; these games are so simple yet so complex.

[Grindstone]

Quote:

Near one year topic necromancy!

I do not see the point in not reviving topics in a forum that has as little activity as this one

As for difficulty levels changing physical resistance, I have definitely seen it happen in A1 and A2. In A3 this may be different, I wouldn't know because I have played that game on Torment only. I did notice that in A3 Torment I was dishing out significantly more damage with my level 1 characters than in the previous games, so this might have changed. Anyway, while on normal difficulty I favored melee combat too, I rely heavily on magic on Torment because it does significantly more damage. If the enemies' physical resistance is higher, or your characters' damage is toned down I don't know, but I can't imagine the latter

[La paix]

The point is that topic revival is quite frowned upon around here. Be careful. Some people can make quite a racket about it.

 

Has anyone ever tried a magic-only party on Torment? It sounds like an intriguing idea, but it would be difficult with no meat shields (not to mention tedious and time consuming without!).

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Reviving a thread is okay if you have something interesting to add that wouldn't be better in a new thread. Relax.

 

Yes, people have done that.

[La paix]

'Tis just a friendly warning.

 

===

 

The problem with communication by text is that it can be difficult to discern emotions. I was relaxed (no offense meant).