Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Some infernal like Teriel are meant to be fought when you are a few levels higher if you want an easier fight. Teriel heals if you aren't near him. This is ti prevent agents from standing out of attack range and using airshock. Same for other foes that are in a fixed position like pylons. Destroying summoned soul jars prevents him from getting bonuses and healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted April 21 Author Share Posted April 21 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Randomizer said: Some infernal like Teriel are meant to be fought when you are a few levels higher if you want an easier fight. Teriel heals if you aren't near him. This is ti prevent agents from standing out of attack range and using airshock. Same for other foes that are in a fixed position like pylons. Destroying summoned soul jars prevents him from getting bonuses and healing. What are the summoned soul jars? Also, if I am close to Teriel he uses some weird attack and deals a bunch of damage to me. But I will do what you suggest and I will revisit once I am 16 level. But I wanted that +1 essence mastery. I have killed the Bound One before finding out that quest, so I have to kill that guy now to get that sweet, sweet +1 essence mastery. Edited April 21 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 "What are the summoned soul jars? " When you do enough damage to Teriel, he summons a soul jar that heals him and provides some other bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted April 21 Author Share Posted April 21 1 minute ago, Randomizer said: " What are the summoned soul jars? " When you do enough damage to Teriel, he summons a soul jar that heals him and provides some other bonuses. I saw "summon soul jar" but I didn't see anything aside of an Ur-Glaak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 They appear in the room's four corners at different parts of the fight as Teriel takes damage. Two are glaahk types and two are vlish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Anyone managed to kill Shanti? I loaded back right before I got out of the tunnel and tried it. She is probably too hard for a 6th level character but it should be doable for you pros, at least in normal difficulty. I managed to get her down to below half hp before she did something that did 70 hp to my already wounded char. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 I am officially moving to Lifecrafter from Shaper: 1. I have consumed two cannisters. 2. I am paying a veteran in Eastern Medab to care for my Creations. (<== This is a mod I made, don't look for him). Thus, proving that self-shaping works and refusing to simply kill my creations even if it bites me financially, I am a Lifecrafter. Down with Shaper Tyranny! Glory to the Rebellion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 (edited) Question 1: I encountered Agent Phips of the Loyalists. I killed her on sight. Then I thought that I may need her for quests so I loaded, talked to her and then... lost it, got the dialogue to attack her and then I killed her again. I re-loaded. Just seeing her makes me want to attack her. I dislike Shapers more than I dislike rogue Vlish. - Is there any upside to not killing her or the Loyalists for someone already in boat with the Awakened? - Considering I want to read their stories, is there a downside to killing Phipps after I ask her about Shanti etc? (that's the RP part; I am looking for Shanti in my mind. Killing Shapers is a side-hassle at this point). Question 2: I will soon level up. Is there a reason to buy Battle Magic (I have searer) to more than 1, or not really and I should keep boosting my fire creations? I do not play Overrun yet, I play (mostly) vanila. Edited May 2 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I'm assuming that you are running a Shaper with fire creations, so there is no need to boost Battle Magic when using seater. You get less damage on the initial hit, but future acid damage is based on target level so that makes no difference. The only reason to level up is if you are going to get airshock which would be several levels more of BattleMagic. Having more powerful creations works out better since they will do more damage and have more health so they are less likely to die or go rogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 Thanks. And on the killing that Loyalist? I have already killed every Barzhite in that map and Ghent didn't turn hostile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 (edited) 19 hours ago, alhoon said: Question 1: I encountered Agent Phips of the Loyalists. I killed her on sight. Then I thought that I may need her for quests so I loaded, talked to her and then... lost it, got the dialogue to attack her and then I killed her again. I re-loaded. Just seeing her makes me want to attack her. I dislike Shapers more than I dislike rogue Vlish. - Is there any upside to not killing her or the Loyalists for someone already in boat with the Awakened? - Considering I want to read their stories, is there a downside to killing Phipps after I ask her about Shanti etc? (that's the RP part; I am looking for Shanti in my mind. Killing Shapers is a side-hassle at this point). Any suggestions on that? Also, is there any downside in killing Sharon, after she made the ring for me, in a completely atrocious way? And if I kill everyone in Gerth, could I continue happily to Rising, to talk with and trade with the other Barzhites? Killing every Barzhite I got my hands on outside of Gerth didn't make Gerth hostile. I am 15 level and the only quest I found in Gerth was by a servile. Also, if I move in Ghent and start smashing Barzhite heads, will the Serviles attack me too? I don't want to kill the poor creatures. I would also prefer to spare Dawn, if possible; she is too young and too enarmored with all the promises of power the Barzhites give and the promises of high society that the Shapers gave her before that. Honestly, the only Shaper I don't want to kill at this point, after Sharon betrayed me and started creating creatures only to kill them in painful ways as they stare confused, is that nice old Shaper with the plants in that ^#$@# place that is full of acid and poison vats. I will let the Takers kill that one, she has done nothing wrong, that I can see. So far. Except of propagating the Shaper Tyranny, for which I will let the Takers kill her for; I am not going to simply kill an old lady that also seems pretty weak. Sharon the butcher has her army of 15th level 1000+ hp creations. The old lady doesn't have a single animal creation. Because she is not abusive. ANOTHER THING: Why? Why the howls? I have seen absorbing of creations in GF3 and it seemed... peaceful. The Artila you break up doesn't seem to be in pain. I always thought the "1000+ damage!" and the growl as you absorb a creation of yours was simply how it was portrayed, not what it really happened. I didn't even want that stupid ring that much. I haven't found many mechanics "a lot" quests. I have got +1 mechanics from the book in the Maze, Tinker gloves and +1 mechanics armor. That's +4 mechanics getting me to 10 mechanics. If I find an agent cloak or agent shield (the ones that give +1 or +2 mechanics, I forget), I would be golden. I just jumped to do that ring cause I got the materials when I finished her grove. PS. At level 15, mostly-optimized, Fire-Shaper + Xander (slightly boosted Xander) I could clear everything without any issue. The plants were ... easy. I had 4 drayks spraying everything and everywhere why my 2 Drakons chain-lightinged all the flowers near me (although they got pretty lucky with haste). Edited May 3 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer l33tmaan Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) Would it be okay for Sharon to jam creations into a ring if she made weird lobotomized versions of them first? Y'know, so they don't really know what's happening? How much different is it from sending a pig to slaughter? Edited May 4 by l33tmaan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 (edited) 38 minutes ago, l33tmaan said: Would it be okay for Sharon to jam creations into a ring if she made weird lobotomized versions of them first? Y'know, so they don't really know what's happening? How much different is it from sending a pig to slaughter? If she made the creations like the machine and door creations that don't suffer, I can accept it. Also, it seems that none knows whether it is "safe" to start purging Barzhites and Shapers yet... Edited May 4 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 Barzhite Ajax: The guy in the mines. I actually don't hate the guy. He is moderate with the canisters and is OK to the Serviles. He told me to find a mine that I don't even recall deeeep in Taker lands. The main Issue I have is that if I make Rising hostile, for example by killing a bunch of Barzhites, he becomes hostile too. I will probably have to clear him out along with the others, once I turn the Creations on their masters. A pity. Ajax and Dawn are so far the only Barzhites I feel bad about killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk earanhart Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 How is that a problem? Let me translate this. Let's say Hector takes a new job with better benefits in the next town over. Then some guy from his former bosses company comes around asking a few questions and is initially friendly enough. But this new guy then begins to kill everyone in the town Hector just moved to. Of course Hector is going to be a fair bit hostile towards this guy. If he walks into Hectors new job site after doing all this, do you really think Hector is gonna be like "Hey Patroclus, long day?" No, he's gonna do his best to kill the guy who has given every indication of wanting him dead and being willing to do that himself. How do have an issue with that? If you don't want Ajax hostile to you, maybe don't be a psychopathic murder hobo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) To be fair to alhoon, there are some very valid non-psychopathic reasons that Rising might be hostile. But yeah, Ajax turning hostile isn't exactly something unexpected if the whole town is out to get you. Edited May 9 by Mechalibur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk earanhart Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I'll agree, but all of those reasons are kind of "Wanted, Dead or Alive, Reward" signs posted up in the tavern (or every building) type situations. Ajax going hostile always makes sense, barring some argument like "non-combatants should flee" which would require more behavior scripts in the game code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 (edited) 27 minutes ago, earanhart said: How is that a problem? [...] How do have an issue with that? If you don't want Ajax hostile to you, maybe don't be a psychopathic murder hobo? It is not a problem for the game, it is a problem for me cause I will feel sad about killing him when I start butchering Barzhites. And make no mistake: He does uses Serviles, he does align with the Barzhites and he does uses canisters. I will go down those steps, find him, and kill him. And feel bad about it. But he is an enemy in a war. He can control creations, I can't let him alive; he's like an enemy officer with a group of soldiers. However: Killing Barzhites (most of them) is good for the soul. Not psychopathic murder hobo-ing. It is putting down the psychopathic slaver-and-murder-hobos. Well, not hobos cause they have their cities. But you get what I mean. THAT SAID: they didn't seem to care when I killed every soldier and Shaper in Ghent. I did feel bad about Dawn. She was too young to be irredeemable, there could have been a chance she would see the error of her ways and become an Awakened. But again, Shaper apprentice. In a place with several shaping vats, canisters and worse: Essence pools. Dawn, weak as she is, could lock herself in the building and start spamming (weak) creations as she grew stronger. I was an apprentice not that long ago, too. 18 minutes ago, Mechalibur said: To be fair to alhoon, there are some very valid non-psychopathic reasons that Rising might be hostile. But yeah, Ajax turning hostile isn't exactly something unexpected if the whole town is out to get you. Well, I will turn off their machine to let their enslaved, tortured creations, the ones they lock in perpetual torment, run wild. But that said: "the whole town out to get me"? Lol. Those pathetic, little fools, that think their toys are good enough? I have level 23 Drakons now. Their Alphas are level 7-10. Their elite soldiers are level 18 and have 31% to hit my Drakons. I have enough essence to clear them all out once I stop the charm thing. Stannis went down in 2 rounds, because most of my creations resisted the stun. Getting hit 4 times by a hasted 23 level Drakon and then a bunch of Drayks was enough. The reason I don't purge them yet is that ... the Rising merchants DO trade with me! I made 3000 from the stuff I have gathered. I will visit Phariton, Kill the loyalists, and then kill them all. ALL. 7 minutes ago, earanhart said: I'll agree, but all of those reasons are kind of "Wanted, Dead or Alive, Reward" signs posted up in the tavern (or every building) type situations. More like "The end is here. Not coming, it reached us." signs. 7 minutes ago, earanhart said: Ajax going hostile always makes sense, barring some argument like "non-combatants should flee" which would require more behavior scripts in the game code. Ajax actually is not a non-combatant. He is decent level, somewhat canister'ed etc. He is supposed to fight, I think. The non-combatant level 1 serviles and merchants SHOULD stay out of it, and when I purged Ghent I had to take steps to avoid them. In the originals, the level 1 people were running away. Edited May 9 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 On 3/27/2024 at 8:34 PM, nlambert said: Puresteel Bars: All. Why do we need Puresteel bars? Just for the mad Barzhite that makes cannisters? Considering you can unlock those doors, is there any reason to not sell the Puresteel bars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 You need one purestel bar for Phariton's quest to get training. Otherwise as you point out the only other place is Rising for the 4 canisters. Sell the rest. alhoon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 The Knight and the fetch quest: I found a nice Drayk Horticulturist and botanist. He asked me to bring him a ton of "shrubberies". I guess these are the potted plants I see the quests about. The question is: Is the reward worth it? Are there follow-up quests? Or he goes "Gee, thanks. Here's a sapphire, 2 venom thorns and 17 XP" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 The final XP reward is still nice even that late in the game. Loot depends more on what you are playing, but it isn't too shabby, alhoon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 7 minutes ago, Randomizer said: The final XP reward is still nice even that late in the game. Loot depends more on what you are playing, but it isn't too shabby, Sigh... I guess I have to haul shruberries then... What are they? The small pots or the big pots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 The small potted plants are the first ones and there are plenty around Medab. alhoon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 (edited) Aaaaaand the Barzhites do not have the cure for the disease. 😑 I suffered them to live for mainly that reason. I am in the Radiant college so I may as well try to find out what happened to Emily. EDIT: Nope, nothing on Emily either. I was so angry I killed Barzhal forgetting to get my Helix Ring. Edited May 21 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 (edited) I stopped the research at the Barzhite Radiant College. The bad way. Not the poison way. Got a ton of XP btw from it. Then, Pinner says something like this: Ehhh... Pinner. The people of Rising have not been exactly saved. They have been saved from the Barzhite Madness. But Rising is no more. I have destroyed Ghent, Rising, the Radiant College and every Barzhite I could get my hands on. I stole their research. The Barzhites are as good as gone as a faction. I wish people that have dialogues of "the Barzhites can give you great power!" now had the possible answer of "Perhaps, when they were a faction. At this point, Me-something Eye of the Takers and the Sholai are more of a faction than the Barzhites are." Anyway, enough bragging. To my question: I don't really need the Barzhites for anything else, right? I didn't find the Servile Cure, I was told the Takers have it. I didn't find any secrets from Emily's origin. Soooo... I won't find a bizarre Drayk or something that needs me to talk to a Barzhite now, right ? EDIT!!!! This is very important! &^*%$%@#&@@$ <==string of very bad words. The key person for the Barrier run to the #$@$ing Barzhites! No wonder they were spamming those big drakon-Shaping vats in large numbers! Can I still find him!? I cannot believe that just by, ahem, taking care of, the main Anti-Awakened faction, I could be blocked from the ending. There must be another way! Anyone can help??? Please? Edited May 26 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Genernumlover Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 57 minutes ago, alhoon said: The key person for the Barrier run to the #$@$ing Barzhites! No wonder they were spamming those big drakon-Shaping vats in large numbers! Can I still find him!? I cannot believe that just by, ahem, taking care of, the main Anti-Awakened faction, I could be blocked from the ending. There must be another way! Anyone can help??? Please? He's the servile in the crappy home in southern Gheth, the one who refuses to talk to you. If you killed him or he is hostile, it sounds like you need to go back to an earlier save. alhoon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 32 minutes ago, Genernumlover said: He's the servile in the crappy home in southern Gheth, the one who refuses to talk to you. If you killed him or he is hostile, it sounds like you need to go back to an earlier save. Southern Geth? I have tried to avoid killing Serviles there. I will give it a try. Thanks. Genernumlover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Lorn Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 (edited) 15 minutes ago, alhoon said: Southern Geth? I have tried to avoid killing Serviles there. I will give it a try. Thanks. It's this servile: https://imgur.com/a/W0PnGfV Edited May 26 by Lorn alhoon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 If the servile is dead, go back to the Barrier of Winds and talk to them again. You can now find out that he might have left notes nearby. You don't get that option until confirm dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 23 minutes ago, Randomizer said: If the servile is dead, go back to the Barrier of Winds and talk to them again. You can now find out that he might have left notes nearby. You don't get that option until confirm dead. Nope, he is alive and well. But now, I need to kick off one of my Creations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 @Drayk Armitage Indeed, the situation with the Awakened doesn't seem as bleak right now. We finished the Barrier of the Winds. I brought my concerns to Learned Varkan, not Pinner about "a handful of Drakons" holding back the Shapers and he said something I have not considered: The passages can be sealed off. Attacks from the Sky would be the main issue and the Barrier of Winds can take care of an Aerial attack. It still does not solve the major issue of the diseases Shaper can make to kill Creations. It doesn't solve the other major issue that powerful as that handful of flying Drakons is, 50 Shapers could Shape 300 Wingbolts and send them against the Drakons. Then, after the Wingbolts are spent, send another wave. And another. I am not talking big, vat-made Wingbolts. The Rank-and-file wingbolts a Shaper can make with essence and a few minutes is more than enough to wound a drakon. The Shapers can make aerial attacks in vastly greater numbers and faster than the Awakened can make Flying Drakons. What I mean, is that the Shapers can Zerg the Awakened despite the power of the Flying Drakons. That it doesn't happen, stretches believability. It also doesn't solve the potential issue of an agent or two sneaking in and sabotaging the Barrier - when the Shapers eventually learn through spies where and what it is. That it doesn't happen within the timeframe of the ending-I-have-yet to see, doesn't mean it would never happen or that it could never happen. Another issue it doesn't solve is that the Awakened have very few Shapers and they are adamant on not Shaping. They have the gear and they watch the Drakons grow. But a Shaper* must Shape the Drakons. A not-small issue is that the passages, even if sealed, need to be patrolled and monitored. If creations patrol them, then a Shaper elite force (like Alwan's in GF4) can perhaps take them over. Commons can be fooled by stealthy agents. But it does sound better. 20% better and still an impossible situation, but at least it is more believable that the Awakened would at least have 25-40 years of stalemate. Not very believable, because diseases and countless wingbolts, but still more believable. *On that: Carnelian is not up to the task and there's no way to know if she will be up to it by the time Tuldaric inevitably kills himself or has to be put down. Zanzhital (or how he is called) is even further back in his studies - but at least we don't know his potential. Dawn, which could have been persuaded and trained, I had to kill. That leaves ... me, I think. I don't remember any other Shaper that works with the Awakened. I will look into the Taker lands for any good and Shaper-trained Lifecrafter that the Awakened could potentially accept but I very very much doubt there will be any. As far as I know I am in a very small minority of Shapers that think that Shapers should perish for their crimes. And the reason I am in that minority is that I am a player, not someone that has been raised in such a society that promotes Shapers based on loyalty first and on merit second. Simply put, I would have been thrown out of the academy like Greta. Shaper-wannabes that would consider the Shapers should be overthrown do not become Shapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 And Emily saved Lying Zackary the Deceiver - for today at least. I was walking in Drypeak, to kill him. Not to chat, not for a mission. I just decided his life should end at the teeth of Fireheart, the Drayk the servants taught me how to make and that is still alive (I load when he dies, and he dies a lot to the point I consider buying endurance for him). As I approach the Great Fraudster with murderous intent and an evil, cruel smile on my face... before I can click on him and attack, he suddenly starts a dialogue about Emily being in trouble. Very well played, Zackary. I see how you managed to keep your head so far. You keep it again. Your misdirection worked. Today. But soon, you will run out of lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Amira The Hot Potato Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 5 hours ago, alhoon said: @Drayk Armitage *On that: Carnelian is not up to the task and there's no way to know if she will be up to it by the time Tuldaric inevitably kills himself or has to be put down. Zanzhital (or how he is called) is even further back in his studies - but at least we don't know his potential. Dawn, which could have been persuaded and trained, I had to kill. That leaves ... me, I think. I don't remember any other Shaper that works with the Awakened. I will look into the Taker lands for any good and Shaper-trained Lifecrafter that the Awakened could potentially accept but I very very much doubt there will be any. As far as I know I am in a very small minority of Shapers that think that Shapers should perish for their crimes. And the reason I am in that minority is that I am a player, not someone that has been raised in such a society that promotes Shapers based on loyalty first and on merit second. Simply put, I would have been thrown out of the academy like Greta. Shaper-wannabes that would consider the Shapers should be overthrown do not become Shapers. Small side note: theres like 2(?) shapers in that awakened school/library complex but I don't think they were very skilled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 5 hours ago, Amira The Hot Potato said: Small side note: theres like 2(?) shapers in that awakened school/library complex but I don't think they were very skilled Oh, you are right. So, with a few shapers there, we are not at "Tuldaric & 2 freshly mint Shapers" but to "Tuldaric and a handful of Shapers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Genernumlover Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 7 hours ago, alhoon said: Oh, you are right. So, with a few shapers there, we are not at "Tuldaric & 2 freshly mint Shapers" but to "Tuldaric and a handful of Shapers" They've got a handful of Shapers, and that's why they need you. The game remarks that the protagonist has the potential to be extremely powerful. Likely, the Shaper can become the main Shaper for the Barrier of the Winds. The Awakened's plan is that the Shapers will march in thinking this will be an easy task and then have their attack get crushed by the Drakons, along with the Shaper's inevitable follow-up once they recover from their shock. Aside from that, the serviles are training themselves in magic and warfare, plus absorbing any surviving Barzite Shaper apprentices will likely be trained further. Even if the protagonist can't Shape more Drakons, by the time the Shapers get through the barrier, the Awakened will be fortified with lethal forces in an extremely defensible location that they know very well. Any Shaper attackers would be ambushed or bled dry. The Shapers, being slow and prone to ignoring problems they can't fix, would try and blockade the mountains. A nice addition to the remake is Hannah's idea of trading knowledge for peace. Time would leave the Shapers overconfident and weary of "wasting" their forces on an insignificant mountain of rebels. Then they could be bought off by Hannah and the Awakened could live in peace while word of independent serviles and commons spreads through the Shaper Empire. It is a long plan that would slowly change the Shaper Empire with minimal bloodshed. Quiconque and l33tmaan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, Genernumlover said: Likely, the Shaper can become the main Shaper for the Barrier of the Winds. That's beyond likely, considering I have Ur-drakons walking around, that those idiots in Ghent couldn't do. I don't think I have seen any Ur-Drakon so far, to be honest. What I mean is it is not "Likely the Apprentice becomes the main Shaper" and more "The Apprentice is the main Shaper by the time you bring the Conduit, even before you leave. The vats are still full, so you don't need to Shape anything." 6 hours ago, Genernumlover said: Any Shaper attackers would be ambushed or bled dry. The Shapers, being slow and prone to ignoring problems they can't fix, would try and blockade the mountains. Nope. Any Shaper attackers would be fortified nicely sipping tea away from the battle lines, as their slave creations, as Amena Blade correctly puts it, are bled dry. 6 hours ago, Genernumlover said: Then they could be bought off by Hannah and the Awakened could live in peace while word of independent serviles and commons spreads through the Shaper Empire. It is a long plan that would slowly change the Shaper Empire with minimal bloodshed. Ehh, nope. Not even Hannah really believes that. Pinner says her crap about "We can't do any abomination that would be beyond the pale, so that Shapers will consider peace, eventually." But their very existence is an abomination. It is not just the Geneforge. It is not just the cannisters. They are all rogues. And aside of rogues, they are rogues that teach themselves magic. The Shapers burned the Obeyers alive when they returned to Sucia. The Obeyers. What makes you (or Pinner) think that they would ever accept the Awakened, as the Awakened sit in their mountain while the Shapers simply send waves of creations to their deaths, with perhaps a few young guardians and agents joining in "to earn their spurs" ? Or that the Shapers won't make a disease that will kill the Serviles, but make the antidote for their serviles before releasing it? Or 12 such diseases? Or Parasites to destroy the crops? Again: The Shapers considered the Obeyers as rogues, marked for death. Edited June 3 by alhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Genernumlover Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 51 minutes ago, alhoon said: That's beyond likely, considering I have Ur-drakons walking around, that those idiots in Ghent couldn't do. I don't think I have seen any Ur-Drakon so far, to be honest. What I mean is it is not "Likely the Apprentice becomes the main Shaper" and more "The Apprentice is the main Shaper by the time you bring the Conduit, even before you leave. The vats are still full, so you don't need to Shape anything." Nope. Any Shaper attackers would be fortified nicely sipping tea away from the battle lines, as their slave creations, as Amena Blade correctly puts it, are bled dry. Ehh, nope. Not even Hannah really believes that. Pinner says her crap about "We can't do any abomination that would be beyond the pale, so that Shapers will consider peace, eventually." But their very existence is an abomination. It is not just the Geneforge. It is not just the cannisters. They are all rogues. And aside of rogues, they are rogues that teach themselves magic. The Shapers burned the Obeyers alive when they returned to Sucia. The Obeyers. What makes you (or Pinner) think that they would ever accept the Awakened, as the Awakened sit in their mountain while the Shapers simply send waves of creations to their deaths, with perhaps a few young guardians and agents joining in "to earn their spurs" ? Or that the Shapers won't make a disease that will kill the Serviles, but make the antidote for their serviles before releasing it? Or 12 such diseases? Or Parasites to destroy the crops? Again: The Shapers considered the Obeyers as rogues, marked for death. Invading the Drypeak Mountains with the Barrier of the Winds active would be a war that the Shapers can't win, as the Awakened ending shows. Drakons and servile magicians can kill Shapers, and the Awakened would have the protagonist, one of the most powerful Shapers in the world, and any surviving Barzite Shapers as well. Effectively, the Awakened are able to hold the mountains and force the Shapers to stalemate. With no victories in sight and the cost to the Shapers rising, suddenly Hannah's longshot idea and ignoring this set of mountains is a tempting offer for the Shapers. As Rawal showed in G5, along with other members of the sect across the series, Shapers will look the other way for their own benefit. That is especially true when they are faced with an obstacle they can't overcome, or a territory they don't want to invade. Remember that even Alwan, the Shaper who campaigned on crushing the Rebels entirely, left the Ashen Isles alone until the Rebels died or surrendered. If they don't want to, or can't, overcome something, the Shapers will try to ignore or outlast it. The Shapers wouldn't release a virus. They know such things mutate and only Sage Taygen thought that such a thing was a good idea, and most of the other Shapers thought he was insane. Bear in mind that this was after the Shapers had lost half of their empire and the Shaper Council itself was under threat. With all that, they still wouldn't use the Purity Agent unless the protagonist swayed them. As for scorching all life on Sucia, that was what the Shapers meant to do. They were doing the same thing the Rebels did with the Unbound: eradicating all life in an area for the supposed greater good. In both cases, the factions were ruthless and cruel with no regard for innocent life. One wrong doesn't justify another, and as such they were both repugnant actions to take. Quiconque 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Genernumlover said: Invading the Drypeak Mountains with the Barrier of the Winds active would be a war that the Shapers can't win, as the Awakened ending shows. In the timeframe of the Ending. By the ending, it is a war the Shapers have not won yet. The Shapers have no reason to stop that war. There will be no "mounting casualties of Shapers". There will be Creations that die because the Awakened play "defense only." The Shapers would have a handful of dead Guardians or agents that want to make their fame per year, and that is all. Thus, Hannah's longshot idea is not going to be a tempting offer. For every Shaper that would say "enough is enough, why should we keep ... 0.1% of the Shapers occupied in a war with creations with very dangerous ideas for the 15th year?" there would be 20 Shapers that would want the war to continue. As the years pass and nothing happens to the Shapers and with the vaaast majority of Commons not even aware that there is a war, the "let's go for peace" Shapers will become fewer, not more. The Great Rebellion lasted for 10-15 years (GF3 to GF4 is several years, GF4 to GF5 is again several years). 10-15 years of all out, catastrophic war, with half the continent in the hands of the Rebellion and only Astoria was thinking to sue for peace, and there were assassins against her. Given that, it is impossible to consider that the Shapers would ever sue for peace when so few of their numbers were falling. 1 hour ago, Genernumlover said: As Rawal showed in G5, along with other members of the sect across the series, Shapers will look the other way for their own benefit. Rawal is not a Shaper though; he is a Barzhite. I will not consider anyone that has a geneforge in his basement as a Shaper, especially when he breaks so many Shaper Laws. Rawal was only possible because of the Great Rebellion. 1 hour ago, Genernumlover said: Alwan, the Shaper who campaigned on crushing the Rebels entirely, left the Ashen Isles alone Alwan though is a progressive Shaper. His Shapers are the ones that know how to make Drayks. He uses Spawners, Spawners to defend his catacombs. He uses those Servant Minds to control dozens of creations and on the side, shape creations. Back in Geneforge 4, he greenlit Moseh, Elaiza and Shaftoe turning themselves to monsters. He is not your typical Shaper. 1 hour ago, Genernumlover said: The Shapers wouldn't release a virus. Says who? They have done that in the past and it is one of the things they do in war. In GF3, the players come into contact with a Shaper-made disease in the first island. 1 hour ago, Genernumlover said: Sage Taygen thought that such a thing was a good idea, and most of the other Shapers thought he was insane Most Shapers were right! He was insane. Taygen didn't make a disease. Taygen made the apocalypse disease, something that would spread to the entire continent within a month and kill all Creations. ALL creations. Batons. Ornks. Living Tools. Much of the Shaper equipment. There was no reason for Taygen to go that far. And the reason Taygen managed to keep his head after that, is by sabotaging or blackmailing everyone else! Taygen was not as much interested in victory. He wanted to enforce his own radical views!!! He wanted to kill all Creations Loyal or not so that new creations would be created and then killed every few years before they become dangerous. Taygen was closer to the Trakovites than the Shapers. 1 hour ago, Genernumlover said: As for scorching all life on Sucia, that was what the Shapers meant to do. They were doing the same thing the Rebels did with the Unbound: The Unbound were a weapon used against a continent. It was a scorched earth weapon meant to terrorize and break the enemy's will and ability to fight. It was harsh but it was a tactical decision in a war. A war crime if you want. The purging of the obeyers in Sucia for "the great good" is because the Shapers simply considered the Obeyers as rogues and abominations that should all die. It was not an atrocity during the war. It was simply an atrocity. It is the same thing as the Romans that would execute each slave in a house where a slave killed his or her master, even the loyal ones and even the infants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Genernumlover Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 12 hours ago, alhoon said: In the timeframe of the Ending. By the ending, it is a war the Shapers have not won yet. The Shapers have no reason to stop that war. There will be no "mounting casualties of Shapers". There will be Creations that die because the Awakened play "defense only." The Shapers would have a handful of dead Guardians or agents that want to make their fame per year, and that is all. Thus, Hannah's longshot idea is not going to be a tempting offer. For every Shaper that would say "enough is enough, why should we keep ... 0.1% of the Shapers occupied in a war with creations with very dangerous ideas for the 15th year?" there would be 20 Shapers that would want the war to continue. As the years pass and nothing happens to the Shapers and with the vaaast majority of Commons not even aware that there is a war, the "let's go for peace" Shapers will become fewer, not more. The Great Rebellion lasted for 10-15 years (GF3 to GF4 is several years, GF4 to GF5 is again several years). 10-15 years of all out, catastrophic war, with half the continent in the hands of the Rebellion and only Astoria was thinking to sue for peace, and there were assassins against her. Given that, it is impossible to consider that the Shapers would ever sue for peace when so few of their numbers were falling. Rawal is not a Shaper though; he is a Barzhite. I will not consider anyone that has a geneforge in his basement as a Shaper, especially when he breaks so many Shaper Laws. Rawal was only possible because of the Great Rebellion. Alwan though is a progressive Shaper. His Shapers are the ones that know how to make Drayks. He uses Spawners, Spawners to defend his catacombs. He uses those Servant Minds to control dozens of creations and on the side, shape creations. Back in Geneforge 4, he greenlit Moseh, Elaiza and Shaftoe turning themselves to monsters. He is not your typical Shaper. Says who? They have done that in the past and it is one of the things they do in war. In GF3, the players come into contact with a Shaper-made disease in the first island. Most Shapers were right! He was insane. Taygen didn't make a disease. Taygen made the apocalypse disease, something that would spread to the entire continent within a month and kill all Creations. ALL creations. Batons. Ornks. Living Tools. Much of the Shaper equipment. There was no reason for Taygen to go that far. And the reason Taygen managed to keep his head after that, is by sabotaging or blackmailing everyone else! Taygen was not as much interested in victory. He wanted to enforce his own radical views!!! He wanted to kill all Creations Loyal or not so that new creations would be created and then killed every few years before they become dangerous. Taygen was closer to the Trakovites than the Shapers. The Unbound were a weapon used against a continent. It was a scorched earth weapon meant to terrorize and break the enemy's will and ability to fight. It was harsh but it was a tactical decision in a war. A war crime if you want. The purging of the obeyers in Sucia for "the great good" is because the Shapers simply considered the Obeyers as rogues and abominations that should all die. It was not an atrocity during the war. It was simply an atrocity. It is the same thing as the Romans that would execute each slave in a house where a slave killed his or her master, even the loyal ones and even the infants. The ending literally says that Shapers haven't been able to break the Awakened defenses. That means they have tried, failed, and they are losing valuable time, money, and effort on this, even if the casualties have been minimal. There is no inevitable victory for them, just a stalemate they can't break. Vogel doesn't say that the Awakened held out for a bit and got crushed. No faction has the resources to continue a pointless battle forever. Hence, a begrudging peace becomes an option. Especially since we've seen, time and again, Shapers look the other way when the going gets tough or it benefits them. Rawal is a Shaper, he's an unscrupulous one that wants power, but he isn't interested in driving himself mad to get it. Meanwhile, the Barzites are Shapers that want power and Shape themselves into insanity to get it. That is also what the Drakons are doing, so the Barzites and the Drakons end up being similar. Even their actions with serviles are similar. Both factions promised serviles freedom, gave it to them briefly, and then turned around and began oppressing them. By the start of G2, the Barzites have outright broken their word, but the Drakon ending for G5 says that the Drakons are steadily doing the same thing as they Shape themselves into insanity. Alwan is held up as the standard Shaper that is contrasted to Taygen's extremism, just like the Servants are supposed to be the moderate counterparts to the Barzites and the Awakened are the moderate counterparts to the Takers. If the Shaper's most dedicated general is willing to break Shaper law, or at least tolerate his Shapers doing so, the rest of the Shaper society is ready to change as well. We also see hints that there have always been kinder Shapers, they've just been an undercurrent of the order. Having Awakened serviles stand up for themselves and survive, as the ending shows the Awakened do, would give those Shapers a compelling reason to point to for reforms to the empire. As for who says Shapers won't release a virus, Vogel says repeatedly in dialogue that the Shapers are obsessed with controlling what they create. They can't control a virus or how it mutates. Besides it being a weapon for genocide, that's another reason why the Shapers oppose Taygen's Purity Agent. That's also part of the reason that the ending where the Purity Agent is incomplete and eradicates many humans and creations exists. A plague isn't something that can be controlled, just cured after it does its damage. That is why it is the Rebels that unleash Shaping in such a way, as it says in G3's ending. Taygen wanted to purge the world of all creations and rebuild the Shaper Empire with even tighter controls on Shaping and less free will for creations and commons. That's not what the Trakovites in G4 want. Most of them wanted the war to end with a truce and Shaping to be minimized. That is, until Litalia took over and they went off the deep end into causing the disaster they were warning the world about. The purging of Sucia and the purging of Shaper cities, which was meant to wipe out half the continent, were both tactical decisions made for the amorphous concept of the greater good. It was basically "We need to destroy the threat to the world we are trying to build." There is no difference in the results. An atrocity to prevent a threat and an atrocity in war are both atrocities. The oft-repeated, especially by contemporary academics and entertainment, idea that the law and morals fall silent in war is an excuse for an action, not a justification for it. I think we are getting off topic here. So we should bring this back down to the quests in the Geneforge 2 - Infestation so we aren't derailing the thread. That and neither of us seems to be getting anywhere in this conversation. We could keep reposting the same points, just phrased differently, but we aren't convincing the other person. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. As for quests, I haven't played the Emissary's quest because she is an infernal and I dislike using canisters. Does defeating her send the trapped infernals out of the Geneforge world as well? Quiconque 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: The ending literally says that Shapers haven't been able to break the Awakened defenses. That means they have tried, failed, and they are losing valuable time, money, and effort on this, even if the casualties have been minimal. There is no inevitable victory for them, just a stalemate they can't break. Vogel doesn't say that the Awakened held out for a bit and got crushed. Agreed. In the timeline of the ending, the Shapers have not been able to break the defenses. They try, fail and keep trying. My point is, that from what I recall, the Shapers are at a never-ending war for like 20-30 years at the extended timeline of the ending. Perhaps they will need another 10 years, or 30 years. Perhaps another 150 years. But they have no reason to stop, as long as the Awakened refuse to take the fight to the Shapers and actually threaten them. I will have to see the ending to see if it is indeed something that seems utterly impenetrable, something that convinces me (and more importantly the Shapers) that it would hold for another 300 years of forever war, even if some tactical genius Guardian general takes over 50 years down the line. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: No faction has the resources to continue a pointless battle forever. Not true. The Shapers have literally the entire continent supporting them. Their food won't run out, their components won't run out. And their armies are made with a few words and a few minutes. The Awakened at the other hand, have more limited resources. Sure, the mines in the mountains are rich. But could they be able to keep producing what the Awakened need for a full, total war for 50 years? And what when their Shapers die? The thing is that for the Awakened this is a full, total war. For the Shapers, it is not. They need to divert a miniscule amount of their resources, numbers and energy just because of the size difference. They have hundreds of millions of commons, millions of Serviles, to work their mines and farm their farms and make their tools. They have thousands of Shapers. 50 Shapers stationed in a couple of forts around the Drypeaks and sending in creations is nothing when you have 20,000 Shapers. And they wouldn't need more to keep the pressure on the Awakened. It's not like the Awakened fight back. They just defend their valey and expect that in the 301 month of stalemate things would be different than they were the previous 300 months. Unless the Shaper forts start burning, unless Shapers are pulled from their labs, killed and their bodies dragged on the streets, the Shapers have no reason to stop. The Creations will not be free. The Shapers are rules sticklers, without strain and war fatigue, they have no reason to change their radical beliefs. And with them in place, they will not stop as they are not losing. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: Rawal is a Shaper, he's an unscrupulous one that wants power, but he isn't interested in driving himself mad to get it. As I said, I won't consider someone that has a Geneforge in his basement as a Shaper. He is a moderate Barzhite. Less moderate than Ajax the Barzhite, BTW. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: Alwan is held up as the standard Shaper that is contrasted to Taygen's extremism Alwan is not the Standard Shaper though and there are talks about it in GF4 and GF5 with many saying how his new approach is bringing results. About Taygen... I am borderline to call him a Shaper. He's not Barzhal, Litalia or Rawal but he is so far out of Shaper ideology when it comes to how you treat Creations that I don't know if he would count. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: If the Shaper's most dedicated general is willing to break Shaper law, or at least tolerate his Shapers doing so, the rest of the Shaper society is ready to change as well. That's because that Shaper is desperate and has seen first hand how powerful the Rebels are in GF3. And got his face smashed in, in GF4. The rest of the Shaper society is also cracking at the seams after 4 years of war. Shaper Astoria shoots for peace and is willing to sacrifice the Storm plains to do it. Taygen wants to destroy everything and get the Shapers back to the Stone age. Opportunists like Rawal, far in their corner, start creating canisters for commons. And that is only possible because the Rebels unlike the Awakened bring the fire. Without 15 years of war, without the Unbound, without the Shredbugs, without millions of dead and Shaper forts burned to the ground, without entire provinces liberated by the forces of the Rebellion, Shaper society would not change. We have seen that... in GF4. Even in GF5, the majority of Provinces away from the war (Rawal's and the two on the side we don't except for the final fight) have Shapers that do not want to change. That don't believe they can lose. They have lost half their empire, and they don't think they can lose. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: They can't control a virus or how it mutates. They can, actually. That's how they heal them. A virus that does what it is supposed to do, is a creation that is under control. A virus of course is a dangerous creation but not beyond the pale. Again, Shapers have used diseases in the past and they do use them during the Great Rebellion in some rebel Provinces to weaken the rebels. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: Besides it being a weapon for genocide Which is what the Shapers plan to do anyway. They just prefer to use fire... In Sucia, they killed even the kids. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: That is why it is the Rebels that unleash Shaping in such a way, as it says in G3's ending. And in the Original GF2 ending, I think I will check the intro of GF4 when possible, because I think that's when it mentions the diseases. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: Taygen wanted to purge the world of all creations and rebuild the Shaper Empire with even tighter controls on Shaping and less free will for creations and commons. That's not what the Trakovites in G4 want. No, of course not. I didn't say Taygen is a Trakovite. I said he is closer to the Trakovites in the "Shaping is extremely dangerous and steps must be taken to severely limit it!" And those steps for Taygen include eradicating every Creation and then remaking a few of them that would be killed every year. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: The oft-repeated, especially by contemporary academics and entertainment, idea that the law and morals fall silent in war is an excuse for an action, not a justification for it. But the Shapers didn't even have that excuse in Sucia. But my point was different. Shapers: Purge the Obeyers, the couple thousand serviles that worship us so that we can be sure no rogue survives. Even 5 rogues surviving is bad. Kill all of them, for the greater good. <= idiocy. Rebels: Purge the Shapers. Attack their cities so we can conquer them - and rebuild. Destroy their crops so they can't feed their armies. Send weapons of terror to ravage the countryside for people to abandon their teachings. Many enemies will die, but for the great good <== Atrocity. Genocide. But has a tactical purpose, you win a war that way. It is a very dirty way to win a war, but it is a way to win a war. The Mongol way perhaps. The difference between the two is that the Shapers practically killed the Obeyers for no reason, for the laughs and giggles. The Rebels did their horrid, horrid crimes and genocide to win a war that would see them eliminated completely if they lost. 2 hours ago, Genernumlover said: I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. Very well. But know that I enjoyed our discussion. Fruitless as it may be, it allowed me to express my views, even if you disagree with them. Genernumlover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Genernumlover Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 21 hours ago, alhoon said: Very well. But know that I enjoyed our discussion. Fruitless as it may be, it allowed me to express my views, even if you disagree with them. Excellent! And likewise, I like keeping my debate skills sharp. For the new Emily quest, what do you tell her to do? I always tell her to leave for her own safety. She has shown that she can survive and evade people, but living in the Drypeak Mountains does not seem like it will be safe for her any longer. Edited June 4 by Genernumlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 59 minutes ago, Genernumlover said: For the new Emily quest, what do you tell her to do? I always tell her to leave for her own safety. She has shown that she can survive and evade people, but living in the Drypeak Mountains does not seem like it will be safe for her any longer. I told her to decide for herself. And... she got sick. Which I am trying to heal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Genernumlover Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, alhoon said: I told her to decide for herself. And... she got sick. Which I am trying to heal. So, the quest continues if you tell her to stay? Edited June 4 by Genernumlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 1 hour ago, Genernumlover said: So, the quest continues if you tell her to stay? Yes, which is why Lying Zackary the Deceiver is still alive. I got to Zackary, ready to kill him. Walk through the doors, approaching him. I didn't plan to talk, he talked to me, he started the dialogue. And now I am at the Taker Lands again, trying to find my way to Benerii-Uss and find the cure for the Serviles and Emily. I would do it anyway for the Serviles, but their condition is not that bad, and Carnelian is keeping them stable. But Emily is dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Genernumlover Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) 53 minutes ago, alhoon said: Yes, which is why Lying Zackary the Deceiver is still alive. I got to Zackary, ready to kill him. Walk through the doors, approaching him. I didn't plan to talk, he talked to me, he started the dialogue. And now I am at the Taker Lands again, trying to find my way to Benerii-Uss and find the cure for the Serviles and Emily. I would do it anyway for the Serviles, but their condition is not that bad, and Carnelian is keeping them stable. But Emily is dying. I didn't know that. I was trying to save the kid by telling her to leave. If she gets sick that fast, it sounds like she is already infected and needs to stay so that I can cure her. Edited June 5 by Genernumlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Emily gets sick when you go to Rising and see Barzhal the Mad. If you go first to the Taker Lands you can find out the information that Emily wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 Grimwing has sent me to cut down that evil, huge, contemptuous tree. All I managed to do is earn the tree's contempt and a bunch of poison that took me ages to heal. Any help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Ask around some of the people you talked to previously. The solution is hidden in Benerii-Uss Shaping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 1 minute ago, Randomizer said: Ask around some of the people you talked to previously. Hide contents The solution is hidden in Benerii-Uss Shaping. I haven't been there... I am 90% sure I won't be able to have nice discussions there. But thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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